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HOT TOPIC Defining The Levels of Progression

Jon L

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This I like a lot and think it is worthy of emphasising more as we are all prone to second guessing ourselves and changing the plan. In the early stages that adds up to shiny object syndrome where we start to build a business, then months, weeks, sometime just days later decide to pivot to something more shiny. But later down the road if you don't create concrete decisions you can end up with confusion and frustration and a business that stagnates.

When you have important or 'fork in the road decisions' to make you should take your time, look at all the pros and cons. Maybe speak to mentors, bounce ideas off trusted friends and colleagues. Do all the due diligence required. Then you make that decision. Draw a line in the sand and own it. And when I say own it I mean make it part of you, your mission. Your master plan. Print that decision out and stick it where it can't be ignored. Make it a background for your phone or computer, or a screensaver if you like. It has to be set in stone.

If you do that then the second guessing, doing things half halfheartedly, putting off and dithering about become obsolete because you know you have spent a lot of time and effort coming to that decision so any knee jerk reaction to change the plan is coming out of discomfort or fear, NOT logic.

Take @Jon L moment of clarity that cold calls is his way forward. The 20 percent input that will increase his business output by 80 percent. Once he owns that decision (really owns it) he will make it part of his plan. It then gets inked in bold with a Sharpie:

"10am to 11am Monday to Friday I make cold calls".
"2pm to 3pm every Friday I create the cold call list for the following week".


Then there is no augment. You made a decision that you know deep down was the correct one. You just have to trust in the process and follow through. You are more easily able to ignore your amygdala. That voice causing:



Because that voice don't matter. The decision has been made. You own it. Suck it up and get on with it as there are now no excuses. Then watch your business grow, and, as it does, as you realise the decision you owned was validated> Then those feelings of insecurity and fear will subside. You have levelled up. Time to own the next big decision.
I think you're exactly right about the ownership thing. I own my business, technically, but I've been looking for someone to tell me what to do ever since I started it. That's not a recipe for success.

My mindset was oriented that way because of various issues in my head: self-doubt, negativity, etc.

Recently, though, I've experienced a dramatic shift in mindset, which has allowed me to ask questions here the way I've been doing, which generates the feedback I've been getting (like yours here about ownership), which has made me realize, 'yeah, I really do have this,' which will result in a dramatic increase in business over the next few months. (I know this because its already happening.)

So yes, it is about truly owning your decisions, and then doing the things those decisions entail.

BUT ... getting to a spot where you can own your decisions isn't easy. Its definitely one of the steps on the 'steps to greatness' we're talking about here.

Edit:
For those of you who have owned your decisions for so long that this is difficult to relate to, imagine if your base belief about yourself is, 'I don't have what it takes. I'm always going to do something wrong that will screw things up. Therefore, I need someone to tell me what to do.'

With that kind of mindset, you can hear people say 'Own your decisions,' and while you know what the words mean, you don't believe you could ever do things the way successful business people do them.

(that last phrase is important because its one of the things I used to think about myself...the reality is that I will never do things the way other successful business people do them. If I'm to be successful, I'll only be able to do things the way I do them, perhaps learning some things from other people, but it has to be integrated into who I am as a person.)

Self-doubt is insidious, and it takes a lot of work to overcome.
 

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csalvato

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In your original reply you made excellent points, you gave new questions to ask, you helped. I appreciate that.. but telling me that my post is throwaway.. made me kinda grr.

I apologize for the insensitivity of that comment.

I'm happy to talk further about how I could have better communicated my point w/o being inflammatory in DM. I've sent one your way.

I don't want to derail this thread (which I think can result in valuable lessons) to talk about that, though.

I’m not trying to be obstinate here but growth or progressing in maturity is a principle of the Universe. Everything goes through growth, even stars. If I can’t see the linear progression of a thing I’m probably not looking at the situation with the right measure.
Based on this reply, and your other posts here, it seems that you hold a mental model that all growth and progress can be measured and mile-markered. If so, how has that served you?

I believe this is the fundamental area where we currently diverge. Growth and progress is not a principle of the Universe.

Growth and progress are constructs defined by humans interpreting what they see in the universe. That star is not progressing, but just going through a natural cycle dictated by physics – which will also ultimately resolve with its demise.

Some people view a caterpillar progressing towards a butterfly. Others see the caterpillar being obliterated by a natural process. It depends on how you define success, and what you are asking to get out of the experience – because these are all human constructs defined by you.

Similarly, who has progressed more? The person who is self-aware, has a beautiful family that loves him, and a day job making $200k/year? Or the person who has $50M in the bank but lacks the self-awareness to see why he has no one in his life who truly loves him (family, employees or otherwise)?

That depends entirely on how you define success.

Following this, my assertion is that progress is self-defined, and that you are the result of the questions you ask of yourself and the universe to define that view of progress.

The biggest overlap in qualities I see (not milemarkers, mind you) who are truly incredible in one way or another (in business or otherwise), have defined what that success looks like and seek what is necessary to obtain it.
 

Bertram

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This I like a lot and think it is worthy of emphasising more as we are all prone to second guessing ourselves and changing the plan. In the early stages that adds up to shiny object syndrome where we start to build a business, then months, weeks, sometime just days later decide to pivot to something more shiny. But later down the road if you don't create concrete decisions you can end up with confusion and frustration and a business that stagnates.

When you have important or 'fork in the road decisions' to make you should take your time, look at all the pros and cons. Maybe speak to mentors, bounce ideas off trusted friends and colleagues. Do all the due diligence required. Then you make that decision. Draw a line in the sand and own it. And when I say own it I mean make it part of you, your mission. Your master plan. Print that decision out and stick it where it can't be ignored. Make it a background for your phone or computer, or a screensaver if you like. It has to be set in stone.

If you do that then the second guessing, doing things half halfheartedly, putting off and dithering about become obsolete because you know you have spent a lot of time and effort coming to that decision so any knee jerk reaction to change the plan is coming out of discomfort or fear, NOT logic.

Take @Jon L moment of clarity that cold calls is his way forward. The 20 percent input that will increase his business output by 80 percent. Once he owns that decision (really owns it) he will make it part of his plan. It then gets inked in bold with a Sharpie:

"10am to 11am Monday to Friday I make cold calls".
"2pm to 3pm every Friday I create the cold call list for the following week".


Then there is no augment. You made a decision that you know deep down was the correct one. You just have to trust in the process and follow through. You are more easily able to ignore your amygdala. That voice causing:



Because that voice don't matter. The decision has been made. You own it. Suck it up and get on with it as there are now no excuses. Then watch your business grow, and, as it does, as you realise the decision you owned was validated> Then those feelings of insecurity and fear will subside. You have levelled up. Time to own the next big decision.
There is no science, no factual basis, for making even the most practical decisions. To decide whether to go to law school or be an entrepreneur is like apple and oranges. What we actually do is make the decision based on our values. For example, going to law school might mean pleasing parents, social status, financial security. Entrepreneurship might mean honoring your fastlane vision, financial freedom while young, honoring life.
When in doubt, recall which values that drove you to plan and execute. As long as these still apply, hold the course.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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Based on this reply, and your other posts here, it seems that you hold a mental model that all growth and progress can be measured and mile-markered. If so, how has that served you?
I think it’s served me quite well. In my life I’ve conquered manic depression, agoraphobia and several other serious issues. Then, I started giving myself a liberal arts education so that I could become a mother who was knowledgeable and virtuous. Then I escaped an abusive relationship. Then I separated myself from many other relationships with ppl who were also highly manipulative. Then I started forming more and more good habits. Now, extremely successful people, clients and friends who have met me in the last year hear me discuss business with me and listen.. while being encouraged by my silly and often ridiculous levels of authenticity.

I didn’t write all that to brag in any way.. just to say that I have grown a great deal in my life and that growth to me is a hugely important principle.

Growth and progress are constructs defined by humans interpreting what they see in the universe. That star is not progressing, but just going through a natural cycle dictated by physics – which will also ultimately resolve with its demise.
I believe the natural state of things is to grow. We might have to agree to disagree or hopefully realize we’re seeing the same thing from separate angles.
Similarly, who has progressed more? The person who is self-aware, has a beautiful family that loves him, and a day job making $200k/year? Or the person who has $50M in the bank but lacks the self-awareness to see why he has no one in his life who truly loves him (family, employees or otherwise)?
In my worldview, the first, because real growth is a progression from selfishness to unselfishness - an unorganized mind to a peaceful one - an unkind heart to a kinder one.

That depends entirely on how you define success.
Absolutely.

Following this, my assertion is that progress is self-defined, and that you are the result of the questions you ask of yourself and the universe to define that view of progress.
If I am the result of the questions I ask.. then it is paramount to ask the best questions. Thank you for spending time talking this out. It’s really helpful. I don’t feel offended or even a little bit grumpy now, in the slightest.

The biggest overlap in qualities I see (not milemarkers, mind you) who are truly incredible in one way or another (in business or otherwise), have defined what that success looks like and fight for it with all their might.
This. Is. Perfect.

This is the type of convo I was hoping for.
 
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Bertram

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Shall I return your rudeness with more and not read your reply? Sigh.

If you had read it you’d see that I also mentioned habits, choices, and milestones. Thanks for your thoughts.
I didn't read any personal attack in this criticism. The categories you are listing have value on this forum.
He only dismissed your premise that they are linked in a single, linear progression.
But that isn't the same as tossing out your idea completely or going so far as to attack your philosophy or life or your "why."
I didn't read in any of these comments that you were addressed rudely or disrespectfully.
Respectfully, this wasn't a thread about personal experience until you made that pivot.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

Primeperiwinkle

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I didn't read any personal attack in this criticism. The categories you are listing have value on this forum.
He only dismissed your premise that they are linked in a single, linear progression.
But that isn't the same as tossing out your idea completely or going so far as to attack your philosophy or life or your "why."
I didn't read in any of these comments that you were addressed rudely or disrespectfully.
Respectfully, this wasn't a thread about personal experience until you made that pivot.
I think he and I already got over the speed bump. If I made anything personal it’s cuz I’m a human who has emotions and I’m invested in the convo. It’s a good thing. I didn’t wallow. Lol.

When you read a thread that doesn’t get personal, somewhere, you’re reading a thread where no one is changing.

When you touch someone’s heart you change their life.

He took the time to confront me. Several people on this thread have. It’s a good thing. I’m taking the time to be honest too. We came to a better understanding. That’s called the beginnings of real friendship, to me.

I enjoy all pivots. :)
 

Bertram

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When you read a thread that doesn’t get personal, somewhere, you’re reading a thread where no one is changing.
That's completely untrue as well.
Generalizations such as this one tend to be empty.
We can create friendships without a linear progression through triggering and conflict.

Edited.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

Primeperiwinkle

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That's completely untrue.
A generalization such as this one tends to be empty.
The old-fashioned name for it is "bromide."
“People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”

We can agree to disagree.
 

Bertram

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“People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”

We can agree to disagree.
Also untrue.
You're saying you don't listen to anyone unless they care about you. I'm different. When someone doesn't care about me I still have the choice to learn from them anyway, even to wise up with a vengeance.
 
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csalvato

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I think it’s served me quite well. In my life I’ve conquered manic depression, agoraphobia, alcoholism, and drug abuse. Then, I started giving myself a liberal arts education so that I could become a mother who was knowledgeable and virtuous. Then I escaped an abusive relationship. Then I separated myself from many other relationships with ppl who were also highly manipulative. Then I started forming more and more good habits. Now, extremely successful people, clients and friends who have met me in the last year hear me discuss business with me and listen.. while being encouraged by my silly and often ridiculous levels of authenticity.

I didn’t write all that to brag in any way.. just to say that I have grown a great deal in my life and that growth to me is a hugely important principle.
I did not mean my comment as a way to challenge you into believing my mental model/worldview. That is rarely productive.

So I truly find this reflection of yours to be terrific.

If you feel it is serving you, you're closer to defining what it is you want to seek. You get closer to being able to make a decision where you are very comfortable not looking back.

...

It's still unclear why a focus on growth or success lends itself to standard mile markers or attributes. One alternative to that is a unique set of attributes that, when in combination, create a distinctly valuable human experience.

I find this focus on mile-markers to be something that gets a lot of people caught up in looking for a secret, a formula, a checklist – all of which do not exist. It results in a boondoggle.

And I'm not slamming "noobs" who think this way. Rather, I've seen it in people heading up growing 8-figure businesses.

What about this alternative approach is not attractive? What about it does not work?
 

Jon L

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Also untrue.
Perhaps it depends what aspect of business you're talking about? In computer programming, you can grow a lot as a programmer without much personal growth. Witness all the programmers out there who are completely immature as people.

Now, if you ever want to progress into the higher levels of anything, programming included, you must grow personally, and that ONLY happens if you run into people that connect with you (read: care about you) and are therefore able to impact your life.

Some parts of business, though, the entry fee required is personal growth. Sales is one of those things. You won't be effective in sales at all unless you grow in certain ways personally.

The reason that personal growth requires people that care about you is that we humans are built for relationships. There are things you just can't learn except in relationship with others.
 

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Primeperiwinkle

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I did not mean my comment as a way to challenge you into believing my mental model/worldview. That is rarely productive.

So I truly find this reflection of yours to be terrific.

If you feel it is serving you, you're closer to defining what it is you want to seek. You get closer to being able to make a decision where you are very comfortable not looking back.

...

It's still unclear why a focus on growth or success lends itself to standard mile markers or attributes. One alternative to that is a unique set of attributes that, when in combination, create a distinctly valuable human experience.

I find this focus on mile-markers to be something that gets a lot of people caught up in looking for a secret, a formula, a checklist – all of which do not exist. It results in a boondoggle.

And I'm not slamming "noobs" who think this way. Rather, I've seen it in people heading up growing 8-figure businesses.

What about this alternative approach is not attractive? What about it does not work?
So technically.. it’s a childish thing right? When my kids ask “Are we there yet?” I can tell them about mile markers and then they can be on the lookout for those signs to get reassured that we’re getting closer to our goal. In a way, I suppose, that even looking for milestones or mile markers on a journey is indicative of doubt.

Am I on the right path?

If my main goal is to bear fruit then it behooves me to pay attention to other fruit trees. I want to compare my state to theirs so I can make adjustments. I might be a peach tree but there are similarities between all fruit trees. I want to be a healthy tree.

Do all healthy trees go through this terrifying event where their leaves just drop off for no reason?!?!?

Yup, for the most part. It’s called winter.

That sounds simplistic but.. when it’s the FIRST time a person has gone down the road we don’t know what’s normal. If I can compare my trip to someone else’s then I can be sure I’m on the right way.

Interestingly enough now that I’ve typed all that out... It is in direct conflict with what I know.. that MY path hardly ever looks like somebody else’s.

But then, how can I measure if I’m growing? I can go back to your question thing! Oy.

what do i want to be great at? does this add enough value to others? how can i get closer to that this year, as fast as possible? what would get in the way of me accomplishing that? how can i enroll others in this goal?”
And I would add to that, “Does this add enough value to others for me to feel satisfied?

MJ’s book wasn’t about an equation. His book was about adding value.

I think THATS the real thing I’m starting to see. People who care about adding value INTENSELY, to the point that they care about all the details and their time and their efforts.. end up providing value. And being more financially successful as well.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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Also untrue.
You're saying you don't listen to anyone unless they care about you. I'm different. When someone doesn't care about me I still have the choice to learn from them anyway, even to wise up with a vengeance.
You edited this after you posted and changed the meaning. You also misinterpreted me.

I listen to people who care, whether they care about their product, their beliefs, their hobbies. If they care about me too then that’s wonderful but not necessary. I just want them to love deeply. Love takes sacrifice, unselfishness, effort.

Perhaps it depends what aspect of business you're talking about? In computer programming, you can grow a lot as a programmer without much personal growth. Witness all the programmers out there who are completely immature as people.

Now, if you ever want to progress into the higher levels of anything, programming included, you must grow personally, and that ONLY happens if you run into people that connect (read: care about you) with you and are therefore able to impact your life.

Some parts of business, though, the entry fee required is personal growth. Sales is one of those things. You won't be effective in sales at all unless you grow in certain ways personally.

The reason that personal growth requires people that care about you is that we humans are built for relationships. There are things you just can't learn except in relationship with others.
I agree wholeheartedly with Jon here.
 

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@biophase’s post corroborates this, and even so, he is looking for the secret that will take him to 20M. This just illustrates its a common cognitive trap we fall into. I hate to share this opinion, but i believe these secrets do not exist.
Just want to clarify that I don’t think there is a secret. I just don’t know what I don’t know. So I’m wondering if I’m missing something in my train of thought.

Like how do some businesses go from $0 to $20m in 2 years? What do they do differently? How are they structured? Etc...
 

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I listen to people who care, whether they care about their product, their beliefs, their hobbies. If they care about me too then that’s wonderful but not necessary. I just want them to love deeply. Love takes sacrifice, unselfishness, effort.
I really love the way you bare your soul in your posts.
Looking for milestones constantly will distract from the focus one needs on the destination.
This is probably going to consume me for the rest of the day lol
 

Jon L

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Just want to clarify that I don’t think there is a secret. I just don’t know what I don’t know. So I’m wondering if I’m missing something in my train of thought.

Like how do some businesses go from $0 to $20m in 2 years? What do they do differently? How are they structured? Etc...
What I'm curious about is: could someone in my current mindset jump levels and become someone that can build a $20m in 2 years starting tomorrow? Or, do I have to follow some sort of linear progression?

My suspicion is that there is a set of personal-characteristic ingredients necessary to build a $20m business in 2 years. Likely, several combinations of those ingredients will work, but if you don't have one of those combinations, you won't get there until you do.
 

csalvato

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What I'm curious about is: could someone in my current mindset jump levels and become someone that can build a $20m in 2 years starting tomorrow?
Yes.

Or, do I have to follow some sort of linear progression?
No

My suspicion is that there is a set of personal-characteristic ingredients necessary to build a $20m business in 2 years. Likely, several combinations of those ingredients will work, but if you don't have one of those combinations, you won't get there until you do.
This is a sticky half truth.

No, there is not some magical set of personal characteristics that is a pre-requisite to scale revenue.

Yes, your unique situation will require you to learn things you had not known before. You will need to piece those parts of yourself and your organization together. And those things will need to click into place.

But this is a unique puzzle specific to you, your business, and your market. So there’s no magic set of skills that you could learn that would also all transfer over to, say, my journey.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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I really love the way you bare your soul in your posts.

This is probably going to consume me for the rest of the day lol
Thank you. It’s not always on purpose.. I can type really fast, I get caught up in the convo, I forget this freaking forum is public.. lol.

Mostly though.. I’ve had ppl come alongside me and change my life by sharing their triumphs and their tragedies.. a LOT of them are from another forum I’m on where, if you read the level of depth they get to.. it would make you weep. I know how much even someone’s little story, a story that they didn’t think was a big deal at all, can change my life. I learned at the feet of amazing women who are still blessing my life.

— deep moment passes—

I’m totes rethinking stuff too! Like just now I was “How can I add value to my Sunday?”

yup ... this is what makes her writing style so compelling.
Thank you. I’m trying to write more. I can’t convey how much it means to me when ppl engage/understand/enjoy with my quirky way of looking at things. This forum rocks. I had no idea how much.. emo STUFF I’ve been struggling with until I started reading here.

But to get back to the subject at hand!!
I asked this in my very first post.

What the heck habits do I need to work on to get to the third, fourth, etc, etc floors?
And I think... maybe I already knew this but didn’t trust it... or apply it specifically enough? Apparently I needed the freedom of writing with you all to get to my answer. I NEED TO CARE MORE AND TRACK WHAT I’M CARING ABOUT.

The answer to figuring out where I am lies in tracking my effort. If I counted how many minutes I used today to get closer to my goals compared to how many I used last week for instance.

*smacks self in face

458’s thread!!! I got sooo annoyed with it because he didn’t care about anybody else but himself and I wanted him to engage more.... like in a long emo leadership style.. like me..lol.. he’s not like me AT ALL.. I love that dude.. but instead he just went and started. That’s what leaders do!! They don’t spend extra time trying to convince ppl they just go.

And people started tracking all kinds of stuff and they’re making progress!

ASK THIS
What is my MY PERSONAL IDEAL of a successful “today”?

^^^Why the thread on what you would do as a billionaire is so important. If you can craft your idea of just one successful day, you can move closer to it.

ASK THIS
How can I add value to OTHER PEOPLE’s lives?
By breaking down that question and implementing the answers, then tracking the results, I can tweak and get farther.

ASK THIS
How much effort have I put into moving closer to my goals, today? If the answer is more than last week then I’m making progress.

But this is a unique puzzle specific to you, your business, and your market. So there’s no magic set of skills that you could learn that would also all transfer over to, say, my journey.
It’s not magic but we’d have to agree about our definition of wisdom.

If we agree on what business wisdom looks like for a plumber and what business wisdom looks like for a dropshipper and what business wisdom looks like for Elon Musk we can compare those mindsets and apply accordingly.

Wisdom is timeless.

But of course, if you don’t believe in absolute truth.. then all “wisdom” is relative. I do believe in absolute truth though.. so I’m looking for Business Wisdom.
 
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Adam VanBuskirk

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No I don’t forget my ideas. It’s more like.. my goals are so incredibly specific that to accomplish them I would have to become an entirely different person. And I fail to see how to change or I lose my desire to change that much because it feels overwhelming so then I end up slipping back into old habits.

Take the leadership train of thought.

I have had the privilege to be a help or friend to many leaders. I see how hard they work. I respect them immensely. But.. I don’t think I’d ever want to be like them. They’re vulnerable to the masses and responsible to a lot more than I feel capable of. So I have this movie ending in my head but getting through the movie is really fuzzy.

In a very helpful pm just now, someone mentioned that I need to get in the habit of doing the best that I can with what I’ve got right now and not spend ANY time worrying about what I will have in the future. Because, if I exercise my willpower and my intellect on the small hill in front of me now and I do that well, then I am training myself for the mountain to come.

I really haven’t been applying that. I try so hard to “see” the mountain that I do. I have clarity but it’s just.. It’s Everest. And I am terrified of heights. Lol. If I spent my time focusing on this hill, in this place, I would be serving my dreams more effectively.

There’s a reason I put this thread in the mindset category. Thank you for asking the question. It gave me time to reflect.
Something that helps me a lot and relates to what you mention - have you ever noticed almost all stress, worrying, complaining, expectations, etc come from thinking about the future? I always try and focus on each day and only that day and it does wonders for keeping a positive attitude and not giving up. What a great thread.
 

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csalvato

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If we agree on what business wisdom looks like for a plumber and what business wisdom looks like for a dropshipper and what business wisdom looks like for Elon Musk we can compare those mindsets and apply accordingly.
the crux of my assertion is that business wisdom for someone trying to put humans on Mars is vastly different from someone trying to make a living as a plumber.

The underlying assumption is that there is such a thing as business wisdom. There is not.

Business is just a continuous series of solving problems for profit, whether or not that’s what the business owners/operators/employees realize.

No two problems require the same tools, even within the same business, so this quest for general business wisdom is a waste of time.

I believe a more appropriate frame is along the lines of: “I want to do X. These other people have done something very similar to X. What can I learn from them?”

I spent way too much Of my journey looking for “busines wisdom”, only to later realize I was finding specific wisdomin specific domains (eg e-commerce, copywriting, etc) that did not at all apply to what I valued and what I am pursuing.

Finding a problem and falling in love with it has served me much more than trying to find business wisdom.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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Something that helps me a lot and relates to what you mention - have you ever noticed almost all stress, worrying, complaining, expectations, etc come from thinking about the future? I always try and focus on each day and only that day and it does wonders for keeping a positive attitude and not giving up. What a great thread.
Well I had to take the long long winding rocky ridiculous a$$ road to get to what you just summed up in one sentence but.. YES! Hahaha. I agree!
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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Finding a problem and falling in love with it has served me much more than trying to find business wisdom.
*jaw drops

Uhhh.. damn dude. That’s.. that’s deep af.

I fall in love with finding truth or wholeness or a wavelength between ideas that connect them both.

You fall in love with finding a need or a problem or a broken area?

*brain is being rearranged*
*kinda weirdly pleasant sensation*

Hahaha.. umm.. no but for real.. I’m gobsmacked.
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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Oh and, of course there’s business wisdom. We’ll agree to disagree about this I think.

CENTS is Business Wisdom. It can be applied to any business. When a person learns the principles of CENTS they’re automatically more aware, more enlightened than the masses who don’t learn those principles.
 

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Perhaps it depends what aspect of business you're talking about? In computer programming, you can grow a lot as a programmer without much personal growth. Witness all the programmers out there who are completely immature as people.

Now, if you ever want to progress into the higher levels of anything, programming included, you must grow personally, and that ONLY happens if you run into people that connect with you (read: care about you) and are therefore able to impact your life.

Some parts of business, though, the entry fee required is personal growth. Sales is one of those things. You won't be effective in sales at all unless you grow in certain ways personally.

The reason that personal growth requires people that care about you is that we humans are built for relationships. There are things you just can't learn except in relationship with others.
Totally agree. What is limiting are all of the sweeping, all-purpose generalizations.
Examples from above: Getting any kind of insight on this forum will always require personal interaction with and personally validation by someone else here. Nope.
Gaining knowledge never happens without moving from impersonal to personal communication. Nope.
Growth must always involve someone being personally investing in you. Nope.
Problem-solving doesn't happen unless you know someone else cares. Nope.
As generalizations about how entrepreneurs *all* become successful this is just bunk.
This is when it serves a good purpose to push back.

Generalizations always need testing because their content is highly controlling.
You don't turn into Euclid or Machiavelli or Dewey or DeMarco or Robbins through a collective, cozy discussion. Find the difficult people.

It's important to make this statement on this forum because of the masses of commentators here who receive very little or no feedback for their own contribution of valuable ideas and no feedback on execution. They still continue to show up and dive in and keep learning and growing in a more solitary fashion. Durability and respect go a long way.

That's life and that's the way it is, and more power to those of us who keep on holding our own.
 
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I see why it would be nice to have clearly defined levels of entrepreneurship but I think it would be hard to really nail some down that worked for everyone.

The thing about simplifying concepts is you lose a lot of the context. If you oversimplify then you lose the meaning.

We all have different lives, experiences, competencies, and ambitions. It's super hard to compare two people and have it be apples to apples unless you are getting really specific about what you're measuring, like net profit or time invested.

The key word there is measure. No matter what kind of levels you're defining you are attempting to measure something and make sense of the data, so I think the first step towards conceptualizing your progression is measuring what exactly you're doing so you can compare it to what you're doing later.

Take time management for example. Someone recently started a thread asking about the best time management book. I think you could learn every time management technique known to man but if you don't track what you actually spend your time on then how can you know what to change?

I think it's better to focus on trajectory and what exactly you're progressing towards rather than try to identify some arbitrary level of success based on other people. If you keep improving on a consistent basis you are heading in the right direction.
 

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My problem is that I’d basically be replicating the business model of one of my mentors, who just so happens to be in the next city over.
@Primeperiwinkle, how come that is a problem? Is the next city over too close for your industry? What if you considered scaling on a different level, such as online, instead of scaling to just the area you live in? Even if your business model involves your personal skill, if you have related products to sell, sell them in your brick and mortar and online. Then maybe your profits will start to come more from product sales than from your skill. Since I don't know exactly what you're talking about, it's hard to know if that's helpful. Even if you follow your mentor's model, if they are a town over, then perhaps geographically, your area can sustain two similar models.
 

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My suspicion is that there is a set of personal-characteristic ingredients necessary to build a $20m business in 2 years. Likely, several combinations of those ingredients will work, but if you don't have one of those combinations, you won't get there until you do.
I would agree with this whole heartedly.

The application of leverage to a venture helps make it transcend a linear growth model and instead make larger leaps.

Providing value to customers is linear.

Providing value to customers and financial opportunity simultaneously is what accelerates the growth curve.

There is a TON of evidence out there to support this and I believe its understanding is integral to achieving desirable levels of scale.

And I just gave everyone a little 30k foot view of a bit of my summit presentation.
 
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MTEE1985

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Providing value to customers and financial opportunity simultaneously is what accelerates the growth curve.
Referring to financial opportunity in the form of win-win situations for employees, investors and partners?

And I just gave everyone a little 30k foot view of a bit of my summit presentation.
We golfing when you’re in town?
 

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