Agree or Disagree: Entrepreneurship is a privilege

[DeletedUser0287]

I have to disagree.

This is an opinion based on your own biased point of view based on your experience.

Has it been my experience?

No but I know it can be done, and is done all the time.

I listened to the most recent INSIDERS call and I believe Eric started his business for about $300...

Very productocracy aswell.

Logic based no opinion based

How would you go about getting technical components? Don't think I will pay for INSIDERS membership, but with that budget sounds like a me-too business.

Can't really hustle your way to materials and equipment. They have a price.

Or how about using #3 to get money in the form of loans, investment, payment schedules etc. You're really limiting yourself by putting everything in neat little boxes that don't interact. That's great for theory, but the world is more complex and offers more opportunity.

Great example from Felix Dennis: when he started out, he was trying to publish a magazine or comic, but couldn't pre-pay the paper supplier. He convinced a distributor to promise the paper supplier that they would be paid first from revenues.

There are many other roads to 1 & 2 if you're willing to risk embarrassment and ask people for help and access.

Yeah thats the thing, business is only risky with leverage. As much as I want to be like I'm 100% going to be successful, loans are something you are guaranteed to pay back, business is not.

I do not like the costs of the borrowing money options.
There are loans for what I need, but that interest is high as hell and pretty much poor people punishment.
Money from friends/family? Putting my relationships on the line. I'll give you a story. My parents paid for my education. I should be thankful right? Super grateful? Guess what, I can't sit at home comfortably and do business either because since I took my parent's money. They keep GUILTING me in getting a job. "Hey, we paid for your college education, now you just doing this business stuff?!" Even my very own parents. Constantly using it as leverage against me. If my parents are like this, think about BS investors.

IF YOU BORROW EVEN ONE PENNY FROM SOMEONE, YOU ARE OBLIGATED. KISS YOUR FREEDOM GOODBYE.

 

[Bryan James]

Are you kidding me? Entrepreneurship a privilege?? No. Entrepreneurship is a lifestyle that requires hustle, set-back, discernment, and self-improvement. Entrepreneurs don't snap their fingers and have someone hand them their money; they figure out how to go from failure to failure and learn how to best give others things they want or never even knew they wanted in the best way possible for them. Privileged? You've gotta be kidding me.

 

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[GoGetter24]

Poor person trying to start a business? Full on cut everything out of life to even have a sliver of a chance.

So pretty anything that requires significant capital is a priviledge thing, due to the fact that those with money don’t have to sacrifice. Just hate how the startup culture is all about, everyone has an equal chance.

^ Requoted in case those who haven't addressed these statements, and have instead just read the thread title and then jumped to self-indulgence, wish to.

What OP is pointing out is a valid issue, even if "privilege" may not be the right label for it. The power law "first million is the hardest" effect is law. It must be factored into decisions and preparations.

The fact of the matter is that poor people have no business starting a business. That's lottery mentality. If you're worried about having enough to eat and pay rent, you should not be worrying about business, you should be working for someone else, and working on increasing your labour value and cash reserves.

That might not be a viable way 15 - 20 years from now, depending on technological progress.

Tech progress actually increases its effect. Tech progress destroys lower skill jobs first, and opens up space for new jobs, like esports gamers & commentators, luxury sport instructors, travel consultants, social media manager, Ayurveda healers, etc. All of which require new specialized knowledge & skills.

So if Instagram was just bought by millions pumped in... then how can you say that 9 out of 10 fail in your next statement. Why didn't 10 out of 10 make it, I mean they all had millions pumped into them.

-->

bringing a deterministic mindset to a probabilistic situation

 

[biophase]

bringing a deterministic mindset to a probabilistic situation

Please explain what you mean.

 

[GoGetter24]

Please explain what you mean.

Business is not deterministic, i.e. you cannot guarantee an outcome from your actions, because the result depends on imperfect knowledge. You don't know exactly what other market actors are thinking or what they know or what they want. All you can do it take the highest probability course of action based on what knowledge and resources you do have.

Social media plays are extremely network-effect, i.e. popularity, based. Its value is primarily in that other people are using it, other people trust it, other people talk about it, etc. Attaining that critical mass is the most important thing, and pumping money in is required to give you reasonable odds (e.g. Paypal did it originally by paying users to join, other companies paid celebrities to use & endorse their product).

So perhaps "bought" isn't the perfect word for "increase your odds of getting it from 1 in 10000 to 1 in 10", but it was close enough in that context.

 

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[startinup]

I don't agree with the way you've defined it as a privilege. Because poor people can succeed just as much as rich in entrepreneurship. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The poor person will have to become more resourceful to become successful. And that skill will help them stay successful. The rich person will tend to fall back in their money or investments when times get hard because they didn't have to develop this skill.

---
If we just talk about the title. I do think it's a privilege. But not because only some people are lucky enough to do it. But because we are lucky enough to be born into societies where we can be entrepreneurs. And I'm definitely grateful for that.

 

[GoGetter24]

Ever read about any of the titans of industry who started USA on the path to becoming the greatest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen? They were broke as sh*t!

Indeed I have; no doubt with greater attention to detail than those who wish to emotionally blurt and self indulge. Biographies are my favourite, actually. They all passed through a stage of working for other people and strictly saving their money.

Reality is objective and observed. Not blurted arbitrarily for the self-pleasure of the weak.

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

My books have nothing to do with the "startup culture" but about creating a small business that sets you free. You can create a small business and a productocracy.

You don't need money to start, but you will need TIME and a COMMITMENT. Human capital (learned skills) can compensate for a lack of cash.

As for the Silicon Valley cult, I'd imagine there's some truth to your assertion that getting into that circle requires a minimum amount of money, INSIDERS contacts, and the right amount of globalist sentiment.

Really? No disrespect MJ, but you do need decent amount of money to start a productocracy. Even something as low cost as programming, will need capital to get market feedback with ads at least. I am making the assumption that most people have internet, smartphone, and laptop. I can see non-productocracy businesses that can be started with near $0 capital, but those businesses are pointless to start.

If I were to make a physical product based business like a backpack that is a productocracy. It requires a lot of trial and error. Trial and error isn't free. If you go DIY route, you got to be able to pay for all the tools, equipment, and materials to make the prototypes. This is necessary so no one can just Alibaba my stuff. If you go outsource method, you got to pay the manufacturer to prototype for you. Either way, there is always a cost. Obviously, designing a backpack is not in the league of Silicon Valley, but shows that a small business produtocracy does require capital as well.

Edit: How did I forget? There is a zero cost business model, but I don’t really consider it a productocracy. Not sure if you can value skew content exactly. Unless something truly unique about yourself. Social Media Personal Branding, Audience Aggregation.

 

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[Determined2012]

Yes a lot of lies and bullshit circulates around about this.

The first thing that must be understood is the power law of return. Thiel talks about this in his zero-to-one book. "Theoretically" everyone can get rich with a startup, but if you look at who does get rich and where, there are a lot of patterns. The internet, supposedly "democratizing" everything, actually resulted in most of the big name tech companies coming out of the San Francisco bay area.

Claiming it's just about having a good idea and working hard is complete bullshit. Instagram was not a good idea. It's dead simple. People were already sharing pictures on the internet long before Instagram. But instagram got a bit of traction so they hit it with multiple rounds of funding until it blew up. Instragram simply would not have become a household name were it not for the millions pumped into marketing it. Mass popularity is bought.

This is all because of the power law of return. The VCs pump huge cash into 10 ventures, multiplying investments by around 10 at each stage of confirmed progress, because they know due to the power law curve that the 9 that fail are irrelevant as long as they get 1 that blows up.

This is the same reason that people say "your first 1 million is the hardest", because after that you're up in the blade of the power law curve, and a 1% shift horizontally causes a 10% shift vertically. E.g. once you create an offer that reliably converts, and you know an ad for it costs $1 per click, and it makes you back $5 lifetime customer value, it's just a case of pumping money into the ads, and managing fulfillment and cash flow in order to blow it up.

This is why the best step from being poor is not to launch into some capital heavy business, but to focus on building a marketable skill and reputation for that skill, until you can make enough income per hour to save up money and reinvest it in business pursuits.

It's not about jumping from being a shoe store clerk into opening a restaurant chain. Those concepts are just foolhardy and encourage more failure than is necessary. That's why you've got 1000 guys grinding away at their fluff blog getting nowhere, because one guy pulled it off once and 10000 people heard about it. It's about increasing your active income, from your marketable skill, first. I.e. getting to the point of sale, not being some lowly unskilled (or skilled) laborer at the bottom of a corporate hierarchy. After that it's much much easier to build more passive income (leveraged) projects, because you've got more surplus income, more savings, and a skill & reputation you can fall back on if your passive projects fail.

This is the EXACT method Grant Cardone teaches in his Millionaire Playbook for Wealth Creation!

 

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[ChrisV]

Wuh? It's clear you don't even know what a productocracy is.

Not bothering any further.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVcIXuco0HE

 

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[Deleted50669]

no, no, privilege feels better than this

 

[ChrisV]

Oh wait.. he thinks that a productocracy means you developed a physical revolutionary product

lmfao

ummmmm actually his entire post kinda makes sense now

dude a productocracy is when your product is so high quality people love it and recommend it

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4iUdRu8sw

yea i mean in that case your initial post makes sense.. it does take a decent amount of money to develop

 

[DeletedUser0287]

I think you are looking at it wrong. You say R&D is too expensive for your product and that's true. But let's say I wanted to start a new car company, I can't afford to R&D a new car line. But I'm not thinking I can't do it because entrepreneurship is for rich people. Yes R&D is too expensive for me.

Who's fault is it that I don't have enough money to do start a car company?

Ok..I'm responding to you because you are giving valid discussion. Well was slowlane for majority of the time, thats why I didn't have money. Then failed multiple times and lost a lot of money. Pretty much running my business paycheck to paycheck at the time. That's why I don't have money. In the beginning it wasn't my fault that I was scripted. But after I woke up, now its all my fault for trying non-productocracy type businesses.

I know mentality is a big part of it, but that doesn't mean you disregard the numbers. If both a wealthy person an a poor person both have the entrepreneur mindset. The wealthy can afford to start immediately and fail more times. Failure isn't free. There is a monetary cost like I have experienced. Like right now, I can't do much with my venture until I build up capital again. A wealthy person can afford to keep trying non-stop. I can keep trying, but I will have to keep building up funds again from slowlane for another business venture.

You said your cost before was $600 for samples? $600 isn't that much. But that is assuming it works. If not, they you are constantly going to have to spend $600 for each new venture.

 

[Siberia]

The game is rigged!! Everyone, should just give up.

Great conclusion !! But how did you ever get there?

 

[Longinus]

This is typical slowlane bias about "the rich". You think if you throw a lot of money into a project, it will work out no matter what. That's BS, it takes more than that.

I would even say it's better to start with failures. People who were successful from the start, usually think they possess "the golden touch", starting projects that fulfill their needs instead of people's and losing big time.

 

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[chendawg]

I still think that you are totally wrong on your mindset here. If someone gave you $5,000 to get whatever you are thinking of off the ground. You have no better chance of success than if you waited 2 years and saved $5,000 yourself.

In general for most businesses, this is true. The only caveat is businesses where a network effect is absolutely essential, such as Uber or FB. I'm really not too sure how much capital is actually needed to launch those ventures, but I'd imagine it's a lot of money, money that 99% of the population doesn't have to put towards a venture. Having access to a lot of capital at once is essential towards making those ventures successful.

However, ventures like that attract outside investments easily soooooo........

 

[ChrisV]

Have you ever noticed, that all I do, is sh*t post?

yep.. but that’s okay. cuz you got my man as an avatar

 

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[ChrisV]

So much for that...

and that one doesnt count.. this thread totally sucks... it’s a crime to not troll it

 

[Powshock]

Hmm. A philosophical question indeed. Is it a privilege to have your health? Ask a sick person. Is it a privilege to have normal children? Ask a family with disabled children. Is it a privilege to have a hot wife? Yes (I can answer this one). Is it a privilege for you to be an entrepreneur? I hope you will be able to tell us the answer on your experience.
"Poor person trying to start a business? Full on cut everything out of life to even have a sliver of a chance."
This is addressed in MJ's books. You have to live too. Don't scrimp and save just to say you are an entrepreneur.

 

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[LuckyPup]

Hustle is free. If you are in good health, then you are OMG, guess what, privileged! If you have your mind in good working order, then you are privileged.

If you are only focusing on R & D for a productocracy, then you are doomed to fail. There are productocracies that don't require R & D, and there are a lot of businesses that aren't productracies. All of the following resources are free:

-The library
-Craigslist for flipping and generating cash
-Facebook Marketplace for flipping and generating cash
-Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook are free and you can borrow Gary Vee's book "Crushing It" from the library for free to learn how to use them.
-YouTube
-This forum

Things that are cheap:

A notebook
A pen

Use your notebook and pen and the above free resources and after reading and generating enough bad ideas, you will likely come up with some good ones.

Damn skippy!

 

[yaponchik]

Your financial status is largely predetermined by birth.


John Paul Getty- then the 'richest man in the world'

Said this:

“In building a large fortune, it pays to be born at the right time. I was born at a very favorable time. If I had been born earlier or later, I would have missed the great business opportunities that existed in World War I and later.

“I suppose it takes a long time and it takes extraordinary circumstances to be born at the right time and have cash money available at the right time. I was fortunate due to my father’s foresight and my good luck.”

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

After sometime, I thought back to this thread. I tried hard and really didn’t want it to be true. I wanted to disagree. But facing reality is better than living in delusion.

Trigger alert ahead, hard truth bomb.

Anyways, the further I go down the process of my venture the more I realize how much of a privilege/luxury I have to afford to prototype. I believe the more accurate term is luxury over privilege. Technically bought this luxury to do entrepreneurship by being extremely frugal. More on that below.

When making a product, I like the chef analogy. What does a chef need to make a good meal? The trifecta of course.

1) Quality Ingredients
2) Quality Tools
3) Skills

As you can probably already guess how this relates to product development.

1) Materials
2) Business Equipment/Tools
3) Skills/Knowledge

Humans have two resources to spend money or time.

#1 and #2 are money based. #3 is time based. Although skills/knowledge can be acquired faster through money.

As you can see, people promoting the “you just need to hustle” are only focusing on #3. That’s only 1/3.

Back to the chef analogy. If the chef is a 10/10 chef (maxing out #3), the meal will still be terrible. You only got 1/3. Goes the same for product development.

I have recently looked into G-Shock watches and it took that guy like 200 prototypes. Excruciating expensive. A luxury to prototype. Product development is actually fun what I realized. One of many.

I have chosen a business where the barrier is high in terms of money and time. But it will be worth it because I am struggling hard to climb the barrier to entry.

The actions of people who can’t afford things are the same throughout: stop going out, cut all expenses, drive a crap car, essentially live like crap. Or not live at all.

This goes for the guy that wants to buy anything out of their range. A nice car, home, etc. They all have to do the above. Sound familiar for people starting a business? It is not any different, you can’t afford to run a business if you have to do the above.

Actions of unaffordability span everything including starting a business.

I still rest my case, entrepreneurship is truly a luxury. If I didn’t have bills to pay and could just prototype for a living for ages with sweet financial cushioning it would be great.

What made me post this was that I have ran dry of money and there goes the end of my prototyping. Unable to afford #1 and #2.

EDIT: I would work and work and then paywall. Pay the paywall continue working. And...realize I need another part/component/tool/material. And...darn this material doesn't work as I planned, gotta buy another type. so on..

 

[DeletedUser0287]

I see excuses, You try to convince yourself its almost impossible if you come from a poor environnement. I can tell you some exemples of my friends who are crushing it and came from workers family.
If you take the time to think « i will never make it its impossible look at these poll about entrepreneurship ». You have a bad mindset and sorry but you will never accomplish great things

It is called being realistic. It is possible if you are poor, you just gotta live like crap for decades on ends.

 

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[MattR82]

It is called being realistic. It is possible if you are poor, you just gotta live like crap for decades on ends.

Better than being trapped in golden handcuffs your whole life.

 

[jpn]

Yeah thats the thing, business is only risky with leverage. As much as I want to be like I'm 100% going to be successful, loans are something you are guaranteed to pay back, business is not.

I do not like the costs of the borrowing money options.
There are loans for what I need, but that interest is high as hell and pretty much poor people punishment.
Money from friends/family? Putting my relationships on the line. I'll give you a story. My parents paid for my education. I should be thankful right? Super grateful? Guess what, I can't sit at home comfortably and do business either because since I took my parent's money. They keep GUILTING me in getting a job. "Hey, we paid for your college education, now you just doing this business stuff?!" Even my very own parents. Constantly using it as leverage against me. If my parents are like this, think about BS investors.

So you’re afraid to take risks? That’s fine, other people are willing to hustle and take risks. Hence your “rule” is not a rule but simply your choice to rule out some courses of action. Some people choose not limit themselves in that way.

 

[Consolation]

There's a lot of thing you have to learn. Reread the 2 books. Finish reading all the Gold Threads. Then come back here to disagree.

Forget everything philosophical about the word 'privelege'. In fact, privilege is another word for luck. Entreprenuership is not a privilege. It's a choice.

 

[DeletedUser0287]

I'm glad that you actually rethought this through. But there are many examples where you can get 1 and 2 because you have 3. The problem is that you don't have enough of 3 yet.

When I think of #3, it is pretty much all related to product development and how it is going to be made.

A great basketball player at age 12 is going to get on to a team. Someone will pay for his uniform, team fees, travel to games.

Basketball is near 100% time based assuming you have height genetics.

A great chef will be able to get ingredients to make food. If a chef comes to my door and says, I'll cook you dinner, you just need to pay for the food, do you think I'd take that deal?

So in my case, I’ll say I’ll make you a product. You just need to pay for the materials. So essentially, working for free?

You need to just work on your #3. The problem I see is that you keep using your lack of 1 and 2 as an excuse and never improving your 3. Can you please explain some of the things that you've been doing to improve #3 in the past few years. Maybe we can then see what's going on.

Reading, reading, and more reading to start. Purchasing top rated ebooks that I need to build my skills/knowledge to build the products. In order to use those skills, equipment/tools/materials are needed. Unless you want to pull a Houdini.

Get all the stuff to be able to work. Start building product and...after constructing you hit barriers in two ways.

1)Material does not work with material. Buy other materials/tools to try. This can’t be predicted, it is things you find out after executing
2) More research and realize if I want a top quality product, I would need a machine that costs several thousands more. Would not want to skimp, because these are actually seen as minimal standard.

So I keep getting hit with what I call “Paywalls.” Work and work, hit paywall. Pay the paywall if I can afford it which allows me to continue working and prototyping some more. Surprise, another paywall.

I would imagine that if I had a net worth of $0 tomorrow. That I could find someone on this forum willing to provide me #1 and #2 in exchange for me providing #3 and partnering on a new business.

I guess I like to be totally free with product development. It is how I develop the very best. The luxury to develop freely. Like I said in previous post, borrowing something from someone builds obligation and they will always be watching you. As you saw even from my own parents.

I also feel as if they would rush me in product development like they won’t understand that a truly great product requires a lot of time. Keep bagging on me, “Product ready yet?” Or worse using all their money, and you still have not finished. Aka investors getting mad at the process.

 

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[DeletedUser0287]

Um, It's more skill based than time based.

I group things in either time or money based first.

Skill/knowledge acquisition falls under time based. To acquire the skills/knowledge requires time.

Yes, you make me a product for free. Then if I'm impressed I'd either order the next one, or fund the manufacturing of the next 100 to sell for profit.

It all starts with you providing and proving value.

I am trying to apply to my scenario, I can expect someone to pay for materials, but not for equipment. But I don't even have finalized prototype yet to even make stuff for people. If I am taking someone's money for materials to make it for them, it has got to be good.

What about reaching out to others who have the equipment, asking to borrow time on them.

Or finding out if people are willing to buy your finalized product, then crowdfunding money to get the prototypes done.

What am I gonna do, just walk into a business that has the machine and get in the way of their entire production line? If I was the business owner that had that machine, there would be no way I would do that for a person because all it is is risk, random guy coming in using the machine and getting in the way. Also, risk of breaking it due to him never using the machine which is why he is here. Take up their space with my materials. I would be competitor as well.

Still in product development, so nothing marketable yet to crowdfunding. Will take significant investment before I can go that route.

If that's what you want then go make the money to be totally free. Why don't you get that job that your parents want you to get so that you can save up the money to do what you want.

You want alot of things and you don't have the money. So solve the problem where you don't have the money first. It's a step by step process.

Let's say I want to enter a trade school to learn how to make watches. The school costs $80k. I make $10k a year so it would take me 8 years to save to go to this school. But I want to go in 2 years. So how do I make $40k a year? Learn a new skill that makes $40k a year. Let's say that new skill is catching alligators. So you learn how to do that so you can make $40k a year, you grind for 2 years, keeping your eye on the prize to get into watch making school. It doesn't matter how you do it, you save and get into watch making school.

Or...

You can complain that only the privileged get to go to watch making school.

Yeah, in the process of getting jobs. Regret leaving slowlane job. It seems like my options for jobs is high paying job, but high COL, aka renting for life and not enough room for my operations. Or average income in a place I can actually afford home, but will take me forever to build business.

Unfortunately, I do want a lot of things. Primarily the luxury of going full into entrepreneurship.

 

[LittleWolfie]

Who cares?

Journalists, philospihers,Warren Buffet(see his work on the "ovarian Lottery", and talk on infrastructral requirements , BIll Gates (see Gates Foundation) and ministers for econmic development(they are literally paid to worry about this stuff)

It’s a bullshit “what if” game that does nothing to further your goals.

This depends on what your goals are;

 

[NursingTn]

Privilege?

I see entrepreneurship as a way to make life better for yourself, your loved ones, and humanity. I am like other do gooders of the world (e.g. volunteers, humanitarians, etc) but I hope my effort will bring some form of financial compensation.

However, I regard entrepreneurship as a duty because making the world a better place is my duty.