Can I Get Some Advice on Enterprise Presales?

[Chromozone]

Hello everyone, I've just done a search on the forum and couldn't really find a good presales thread for Enterprise software.

I was wondering if anyone out there could share some advice, give some anecdotes or just leave their thoughts regarding presales and how to go about them.

Essentially, I had a little bit of a set back yesterday and I think I need to change my approach.

I had a very big meeting with a company that wants to use my Healthcare SAAS yesterday. The company covers a whole region of the UK and they have links with some of the largest hospitals in England as well. It's the biggest opportunity I have had since starting my business and they would be a truly great "beachhead". It is likely that if I get my software to be used by these guys that my software would be adopted very quickly regionally.

I know one of the owners very well and he himself is a bit of a mentor to me, so this is how I got in with them in the first place.

My problem is that I built some features for these guys over the last couple of months (upon their request). As the software just needed a few minor tweaks I thought I'd just do it for them for free. But now they are asking "for one more feature" before we launch.

The new feature is very small and could potentially save them thousands of pounds per month and a lot of headache as well, but I feel like my principles have been violated now.

I also do not want to spend more money and build more features if they are not going to launch the app.

My concern is that I don't want to lose them as a customer. My product as of yet, is untested in this setting, but we all know that it will save them lots of money and also increase revenue - I just can't put an exact figure on it.

The plan initially was to build the features that we just built and then pilot it for 2-3 months. During this time I was going to gather data and then charge them a reasonable amount of money for the services.

TLDR; I have a very large company interested in using my SAAS. Do I plod on and hope they don't ask for "one more feature", or get it all in writing and possibly risk them saying no, and lose a great opportunity?

Thoughts, anecdotes and insights anyone?

 

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[JAJT]

I also do not want to spend more money and build more features if they are not going to launch the app.

There's your solution.

Tell them you'll develop the required feature if they commit to launch.

"This feature makes a lot of sense for me to work on if you can commit to launch, but it's not something I can justify spending the time on without a commitment. How about we get the launch locked down right now for Jan 1, put an agreement into place, and I'll get that feature working perfectly before then along with any other support required to get this market ready".

If they are serious about launching, and genuinely want the feature, this is a turn-key sale.

Anything else should be met with hard questions about their intent as it relates to your time and effort.

 

[Chromozone]

There's your solution.

Tell them you'll develop the required feature if they commit to launch.

...

If they are serious about launching, and genuinely want the feature, this is a turn-key sale.

Anything else should be met with hard questions about their intent as it relates to your time and effort.

Thank you very much for your response.

Seeing it in black and white like this just makes it really obvious now!

I guess if they back out and say no, then they were never going to say yes. I'm think I'm going to just work on a spec sheet and send it to them along with intent to pay in writing when the spec is delivered.

I think was just really nervous in dealing with such a large organisation, but not standing my ground would be a silly mistake and a waste of money.

 

[JAJT]

I guess if they back out and say no, then they were never going to say yes.

Not necessarily - It's just a conversation that needs to be had, that's all.

I wouldn't send anything blind or make demands or anything like that.

Get on the phone with your contact, tell him your situation (that you simply can't keep working for free on a hope to close and that you feel you've been pretty generous with your time and effort to date) and ask him if he thinks it's reasonable at this point to put together a proposal as a sign of good faith and give the project a green light so you can continue to dedicate your time based on real commitment.

You have a really strong and logical case to make that anyone with half a brain can understand.

That being said - be flexible if you need to. As you said this is a huge account and could be the jumping off point for something huge. Just make sure that it's very clear that any leeway or concessions you make need to very be along a well defined path that aligns with your interests.

If they say they need to talk to their manager about it, ask to be on that call.
If they say they need you to work for free so they can show someone above them - ask to schedule a call with that person to discuss the requirement directly.

Get into the mindset of "if this, then that" - If you do "this", then they will do "that". Stringing you along with maybe, what if, how about & let's try isn't a "then that". That's just fluff. Nonsense.

 

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[Chromozone]

Hey JAJT!

Thank you again for your advice! It's really great to be able to get an outside perspective. I've been dedicating such a large percentage of my brain to this startup that I can't think logically sometimes!

Not necessarily - It's just a conversation that needs to be had, that's all.

I wouldn't send anything blind or make demands or anything like that.

Yes, you are definitely right!

I need to retain my integrity and approach the situation like a reasonable human being. I've never done stuff like this before, so for some reason in my mind I see "business" as this thing with loads of paper work, contracts and deadlines. But in actual fact it seems that deals are just done by people.

Upon reflection, my learning points from this experience are:

1) Yes, I will go the extra mile for my customers/potential clients. But perhaps I will broach the formalities such as proposals etc earlier on. I feel a little silly having to do this so late in the process!

2) One of the things that happened was that the organisation is very large. This new iteration is due to the request of some of the workers I hadn't met before which turned out to be quite important. So from now on, I will ensure that I touch base with more of the people who are likely to come into contact with my software.

3) Even if I am friends with a client, I need to still protect my downside and in turn protect their downside. It's best for all parties involved.

I will definitely post back on this thread and let you know how it goes! Thanks again JAJT!

 

[JustKris]

There's your solution.

Tell them you'll develop the required feature if they commit to launch.

"This feature makes a lot of sense for me to work on if you can commit to launch, but it's not something I can justify spending the time on without a commitment. How about we get the launch locked down right now for Jan 1, put an agreement into place, and I'll get that feature working perfectly before then along with any other support required to get this market ready".

If they are serious about launching, and genuinely want the feature, this is a turn-key sale.

Anything else should be met with hard questions about their intent as it relates to your time and effort.

^^ This


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chromozone]

Hey @JAJT! Just needed to let you know that the formal proposal is in place now. I even used phrases similar to what you have written in this thread in our correspondance! Haha!

We've set the launch for the 27th of next month. This is an absolutely massive deal for me.

It's also validated the concept even more - which was one of my main concerns in this new setting.

Here's a quote from one of the emails from the owner of the company I'm dealing with:

Once up and running I am sure it will save the team time and make life easier for patients

Now we just need to make sure the launch goes well and the software is as awesome as it can be!

 

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[Readerly]

Hey @Chromozone,

First off, congratulations! As someone with a healthcare IT background, I can appreciate what a monumental undertaking building an EMR system is. I've worked extensively with Epic, and I found it to be a piece of crap! I imagine yours is infinitely better. There's a lot of great advice in previous responses to your OP, so I won't beat a dead horse. I think you have to have confidence in your conviction that this brave first customer being happily served will lead to yet more customers. Consider that they're giving you a tremendous amount of value by being your Guinea pig.

I've been building a SaaS too, for a different industry. I just submitted a Request for Information to a state-level department that, my partner and I hope, may lead to a lucrative "sole source provider" contract. This too would be a big first customer that could open a lot of doors elsewhere in the country. So I can appreciate the high suspense you've been feeling lately!

Sean

 

[Chromozone]

Hey @Readerly

Thank you very much for your response. Yes I agree, I can tell that this will definitely spread once it's up and running. I reckon another 6-8 months of tinkering will make the product first of its class. I think my confidence in my app is growing as time goes on, but I'm painfully aware of how the real world often doesn't react in the way that you would expect! I can see that there will be plenty of work and stress arising in the upcoming months!

I just came across your SAAS thread! I'll be watching it very closely!

 

[JAJT]

Hey @JAJT! Just needed to let you know that the formal proposal is in place now. I even used phrases similar to what you have written in this thread in our correspondance! Haha!

REP+ for action and getting results

Great job!

 

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[Readerly]

Hey @Readerly

Thank you very much for your response. Yes I agree, I can tell that this will definitely spread once it's up and running. I reckon another 6-8 months of tinkering will make the product first of its class. I think my confidence in my app is growing as time goes on, but I'm painfully aware of how the real world often doesn't react in the way that you would expect! I can see that there will be plenty of work and stress arising in the upcoming months!

I just came across your SAAS thread! I'll be watching it very closely!

Thanks so much for the rep transfer. Much appreciated!

I'm curious: how did you go about tackling the task of building an EMR from scratch, if that's what you did. It just seems overwhelming, considering how much structure needs to go into it to accommodate all the workflow of a typical medical practice or hospital. If you don't mind me asking, what did you start with and how did go about deciding what to tackle next and so on?

As I mentioned, my SaaS is in a completely different industry, so the content of yours isn't really relevant. But I'd love to hear about is the thought-process that went into planning your journey of a thousand miles, or a hundred thousand lines of code, so to speak.

 

[Chromozone]

Hey @Readerly!

I'm curious: how did you go about tackling the task of building an EMR from scratch, if that's what you did. It just seems overwhelming, considering how much structure needs to go into it to accommodate all the workflow of a typical medical practice or hospital. If you don't mind me asking, what did you start with and how did go about deciding what to tackle next and so on?

As I mentioned, my SaaS is in a completely different industry, so the content of yours isn't really relevant. But I'd love to hear about is the thought-process that went into planning your journey of a thousand miles, or a hundred thousand lines of code, so to speak.

Ooooh, this is a good juicy question!

I started off wanting to solve a very specific problem as a Junior Doctor. It just boggled my mind how many resources were being poured behind this single specific problem.

When I looked into it closer, it became apparent that the existing EMR's in the market place were not designed to deal with what I was trying to accomplish, as they were built before the Internet went mainstream. I believe the last EMR in the UK came out in the late 90's (by a company called TPP). The fact is that if these incumbents tried to do what I am doing now, they would have to revamp a whole load of their software, certain aspects of their business model and completely change how patients and staff interact with their software.

So, I haven't built a complete EMR as of yet, but a "vertical" component which solves the original problem and that I've made a ton better. My approach has been like the Chinese Water Torture method - a single drop of water dropped on a persons head, in the same spot can drive the victim insane. In the same way, my app is just locked and loaded with a ton of killer modern features all focused on this one important aspect of healthcare.

Looking at other SaaS companies, it seems that this is quite a common approach - dominate a vertical and then spread. E.g. Google with search before they moved into other domains.

The second thing which has really helped me so far is the fact that the healthcare system in the UK is really changing due to a Government initiative called the "Five Year Forward View". Basically healthcare is being re-organised and provisioned in a new way and there is no software to solve the problems that have arisen as a result. This has caused healthcare organisations to go into a buying frenzy as they're desperately looking for solutions to their problems.

The third thing which has helped me a lot is that I became a partner in a clinic of my own in the last few months, so it's given me a platform to continue to test, develop and solve my own problems with the app in my own surgery. When it has come to speaking with other clinics, having this real skin in the game has stood me in good stead.

TLDR: I focused on a single important vertical which could stand alone without integration, I took advantage of the change which is taking place in the healthcare system at present and I have the good fortune of being a co-owner of a clinic where I've been testing and building the app and solving my own problems.

I must emphasise that it was the "Need" which came before everything and before the other pieces kind of fell into place. I heard that 88% of entrepreneurs fail to find a real "Need". Looking at your thread Readerly, it seems that you've got sales, while you've been building! VERY impressive!!

 

[Readerly]

Hey @Readerly!



Ooooh, this is a good juicy question!

I started off wanting to solve a very specific problem as a Junior Doctor. It just boggled my mind how many resources were being poured behind this single specific problem.

When I looked into it closer, it became apparent that the existing EMR's in the market place were not designed to deal with what I was trying to accomplish, as they were built before the Internet went mainstream. I believe the last EMR in the UK came out in the late 90's (by a company called TPP). The fact is that if these incumbents tried to do what I am doing now, they would have to revamp a whole load of their software, certain aspects of their business model and completely change how patients and staff interact with their software.

So, I haven't built a complete EMR as of yet, but a "vertical" component which solves the original problem and that I've made a ton better. My approach has been like the Chinese Water Torture method - a single drop of water dropped on a persons head, in the same spot can drive the victim insane. In the same way, my app is just locked and loaded with a ton of killer modern features all focused on this one important aspect of healthcare.

Looking at other SaaS companies, it seems that this is quite a common approach - dominate a vertical and then spread. E.g. Google with search before they moved into other domains.

The second thing which has really helped me so far is the fact that the healthcare system in the UK is really changing due to a Government initiative called the "Five Year Forward View". Basically healthcare is being re-organised and provisioned in a new way and there is no software to solve the problems that have arisen as a result. This has caused healthcare organisations to go into a buying frenzy as they're desperately looking for solutions to their problems.

The third thing which has helped me a lot is that I became a partner in a clinic of my own in the last few months, so it's given me a platform to continue to test, develop and solve my own problems with the app in my own surgery. When it has come to speaking with other clinics, having this real skin in the game has stood me in good stead.

TLDR: I focused on a single important vertical which could stand alone without integration, I took advantage of the change which is taking place in the healthcare system at present and I have the good fortune of being a co-owner of a clinic where I've been testing and building the app and solving my own problems.

I must emphasise that it was the "Need" which came before everything and before the other pieces kind of fell into place. I heard that 88% of entrepreneurs fail to find a real "Need". Looking at your thread Readerly, it seems that you've got sales, while you've been building! VERY impressive!!

Incredibly detailed answer to my question, @Chromozone! I love the fact that you were solving your own problem, as a practitioner, and that you're also in a position to be your own beta tester! And the timing seems perfect. Problems are multiplying as money is flowing.

Re: your observation that many EMRs are using 90s software tech. So true. As you probably know, Epic has an admin backend that uses what is effectively a 70s-style Unix dumb terminal. To build, you have to page down through screens of irrelevant, legacy fields to get to the one setting you need to tweak.

 

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[Readerly]

Hi @Chromozone,

I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to nerd out on you a little bit. I'm curious about the technical details of your process to develop an MVP. I'll share mine to start.

When my partner and I came up with the idea for our SaaS, I built a wireframe in Photoshop of the mobile app that would be part of the solution. I loaded it up as a pdf onto an iPad, and we pitched the SaaS to our first prospect with it. A pdf--that's it. He really liked the idea.

So I built a proof of concept using a hybrid mobile app platform called LiveCode. The first step was to design the database schema. I did that on a bunch of sheets of photocopy paper, one for each table in the database:

[GALLERY=media, 84]20160119_130050 by Readerly posted Oct 23, 2017 at 9:32 AM[/GALLERY]

Then I built out the app itself and a very basic LiveCode server instance on a cheap hosted account, so that the mobile app could interact with the hosted database over the internet.

We showed this proof of concept to the prospect. Still liked it. We then discussed a pilot. Once we had a commitment from our--now--first customer, I taught myself HTML, CSS, JavaScript, SQL, and Node.js in a furious couple months of Udemy learning at the tail end of the summer of 2016. Then I built the website that would complement the mobile app. I started coding that in earnest in October of 2016 and finished an MVP version of it in April 2017, which was when the pilot was scheduled to start.

The pilot lasted 3 months. The first week was a mad scramble to fix all the bugs that came out of the woodwork. We got tons of great feedback. In total, I documented about 200 bug fixes and feature upgrades. Bug reports settled down after the first week. I had more free time to add new features. It was suprisingly smooth-ish sailing for the remainder of the pilot.

We feel like, all things considered, the pilot was a success. Generally, the users were enthusiastic about the solution. We visited the decision-maker and his lieutenant at their offices toward the end of the pilot. I recall vividly showing them the dashboard and reporting tools that'd have. They started talking about a long-term contract right then--once the reality of this product hit them.

It was one of those understated but exciting moments, when we realized, shit, this hare-brained scheme is actually going to work!

As it stands, we have another contract to do a second pilot. Assuming that goes as well as the first, we'll start talking seriously about that long-term contract. Meanwhile, we're scheduling a pilot with another customer. And we're hot on the trail of a third.

These are big fish. We're basically selling our solution to state government agencies.

So, how did you build?

 

[Chromozone]

Hey @Readerly ,

I don't mind at all! Happy to share info with you and others who may be reading.

The need that I wanted to solve was lingering in my head for quite some time, but initially I thought the idea was too big to go for. In the end I thought if I'm going to do a startup I may as well go all in and go big.

Prior to actually starting the business I was already learning some code. I did something similar to you - I used codecademy, did a bunch of Udemy courses and practiced building some basic apps. Although I am pretty confident that I would be able to hack together a MVP or a bit of a larger project if I put my mind to it, I didn't want to take the risk of building the app myself and cause patient harm in any way.

In the end I went a development firm that I became friendly with. My MVP was truly minimal so I just sketched it all out for them and they did a great job. I made sure that I owned all the code and IP etc. I have this in writing. I also have a contract with NHS England saying that all my IP is my own. (Anyone working for a large organisation should make sure their IP is their own!).

We made the app in HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, Javascript - these are very common languages and easy to hire for, which is why I really didn't want other technologies such as Ruby on Rails or MongoDB which are much harder to hire for.

When the MVP was made I managed to get a clinic to launch the app. I literally had nowhere to launch the app until the week before it was going to be completed! I guess when you're desperate and have your back to the wall, there's no option but to make things happen somehow. The app is still live in that clinic now.

As soon as I launched I was being approached by patients, managers, the admin team and so on. They all realised that I would be able to solve a ton of problems for them which I hadn't even thought of at the beginning. Turns out that the problem I was trying to solve as a clinician was part of a larger organisational problem.

I think this was a key learning point for me. In my mind before I launched I figured that the market was just the clinician and the patient. But it's far more complex than that. The patient is key, the clinician is key, but to get the technology adopted it has to have a key selling point / need by the local managers, the regional managers, the public health body etc. I tend to pitch my product differently depending on whom I am speaking with. The market it turns out is multi-faceted and much more complicated than I originally had thought.

From there on, as I was building traction I found a really awesome developer. She's an absolute genius with advanced computer science degrees and experience making software for the healthcare service. We're working really well together so far.

I now make all my wireframes on Pidoco - I try to make them as high fidelity as possible. We have a ton of face to face meetings to make sure we're both on the same page and also use Trello to keep each other up to date. She has a lot of developer friends as well, so we sometimes tap into her friends to code some bits for us which has allowed us to go really fast. It's kind of like an ad-hoc team now, which I'm hoping I'll be able to formally hire down the road.

Things started to really change around May of this year. The product was getting quite sophisticated and I was showing it to contacts I had. That's when I got introduced to this very large clinic as they heard about my app and so asked if they could use the app as well.

I am now in quite a fortunate position. My own clinic is part of a larger grouping of clinics. Once we have built some more features and capabilities (should be done by March or April 18), it will get adopted into the other clinics.

And I am sure if this large pilot I have signed goes well then it will get adopted in a different albeit related clinical setting.

I'm aiming to get tens of thousands of users in 2018 and I just know that if I keep pushing that I'll be able to get near this. (Fingers crossed!)

 

[NewYorkCity]

Y

Hey @Readerly ,

I don't mind at all! Happy to share info with you and others who may be reading.

The need that I wanted to solve was lingering in my head for quite some time, but initially I thought the idea was too big to go for. In the end I thought if I'm going to do a startup I may as well go all in and go big.

Prior to actually starting the business I was already learning some code. I did something similar to you - I used codecademy, did a bunch of Udemy courses and practiced building some basic apps. Although I am pretty confident that I would be able to hack together a MVP or a bit of a larger project if I put my mind to it, I didn't want to take the risk of building the app myself and cause patient harm in any way.

In the end I went a development firm that I became friendly with. My MVP was truly minimal so I just sketched it all out for them and they did a great job. I made sure that I owned all the code and IP etc. I have this in writing. I also have a contract with NHS England saying that all my IP is my own. (Anyone working for a large organisation should make sure their IP is their own!).

We made the app in HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, Javascript - these are very common languages and easy to hire for, which is why I really didn't want other technologies such as Ruby on Rails or MongoDB which are much harder to hire for.

When the MVP was made I managed to get a clinic to launch the app. I literally had nowhere to launch the app until the week before it was going to be completed! I guess when you're desperate and have your back to the wall, there's no option but to make things happen somehow. The app is still live in that clinic now.

As soon as I launched I was being approached by patients, managers, the admin team and so on. They all realised that I would be able to solve a ton of problems for them which I hadn't even thought of at the beginning. Turns out that the problem I was trying to solve as a clinician was part of a larger organisational problem.

I think this was a key learning point for me. In my mind before I launched I figured that the market was just the clinician and the patient. But it's far more complex than that. The patient is key, the clinician is key, but to get the technology adopted it has to have a key selling point / need by the local managers, the regional managers, the public health body etc. I tend to pitch my product differently depending on whom I am speaking with. The market it turns out is multi-faceted and much more complicated than I originally had thought.

From there on, as I was building traction I found a really awesome developer. She's an absolute genius with advanced computer science degrees and experience making software for the healthcare service. We're working really well together so far.

I now make all my wireframes on Pidoco - I try to make them as high fidelity as possible. We have a ton of face to face meetings to make sure we're both on the same page and also use Trello to keep each other up to date. She has a lot of developer friends as well, so we sometimes tap into her friends to code some bits for us which has allowed us to go really fast. It's kind of like an ad-hoc team now, which I'm hoping I'll be able to formally hire down the road.

Things started to really change around May of this year. The product was getting quite sophisticated and I was showing it to contacts I had. That's when I got introduced to this very large clinic as they heard about my app and so asked if they could use the app as well.

I am now in quite a fortunate position. My own clinic is part of a larger grouping of clinics. Once we have built some more features and capabilities (should be done by March or April 18), it will get adopted into the other clinics.

And I am sure if this large pilot I have signed goes well then it will get adopted in a different albeit related clinical setting.

I'm aiming to get tens of thousands of users in 2018 and I just know that if I keep pushing that I'll be able to get near this. (Fingers crossed!)

You might have a winner.

If this deal goes through find the emails of the people you need to talk to and shoot emails until you get more responses, referrals, etc.

 

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[LeoistheSun]

Are the how different are the laws in the UK from the US? I had someone tell me that the required effort to make an EMR HIPAA compliant would 10x the cost.

TBH I have no idea, but the barrier looked impossible without a load of presales.

 

[Chromozone]

Are the how different are the laws in the UK from the US? I had someone tell me that the required effort to make an EMR HIPAA compliant would 10x the cost.

TBH I have no idea, but the barrier looked impossible without a load of presales.

I am not familiar with the US system so can't comment.

Just to clarify - I am not making a new EHR. It could possibly turn into something like an EHR down the line, but that's not what I planned on making initially to solve the specific need I'm working on.

I personally managed to get granted permission to pilot my app by the healthcare service. If the pilots go well then I'll start to get the certifications required for further commercial use - the ones that I require are actually quite straight forward to acquire, although costly.

Depending on what you decide to tackle, the certifications can be very hard to get. Someone I know created an app that took 4 months to code, but it took him 3 years to get approval from the MHRA and the EU as his app was considered a "medical device". It was worth it though - his app got adopted in a whole region and the hospitals even indemnified the app on his behalf as it was so valuable to them.