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Dane Maxwell AMA-- SaaS, Membership Sites, The Foundation

D. Maxwell

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I've got lots of questions ;-) I love The Foundation's website and your sales video is awesome.

First, the tough one: Why package and market your system as opposed to scaling one of your existing SaaS offerings to 7 figures a month or building a portfolio of 6 figure SaaS apps?

How do you approach growing MRR while minimizing churn and building a loyal customer base? E.g., do you find that you put just as much or more into retention as you do into acquisition? Do you find that retention is easier because of the specificity of the idea extraction process? Have any of your students built a partner channel?

Are most of the apps that you and your students produce aimed at the small business market? Have you or any of your students broken into the mid-market or enterprise space? Have any of your students grown into or past mid 7 figures annual revenue? What about in terms of subscriber count, whats the largest you or your students have achieved? 1k, 10k, 100k, a million?

How do you handle outages? Do you credit customers for downtime or throw them perks or anything to offset the pain of an outage? What works best in your experience?

How do you set up your students to deal with operations, do you outsource it or are most of the apps of small enough scale that they are just running on a basic hosting account? Do you teach your students how to setup an operations team and tiered customer support processes?

What is your opinion on data portability, APIs and integration? Are you an advocate of the walled garden approach or open access? Do you put up barriers like fees for a data extract, etc. to slow folks from fleeing to competitors?

Have you run into compliance issues with differing laws in different countries or are your apps focused on the US market? Do you explicitly block users from countries with potentially "difficult" laws like Germany, Belgium, Ireland, etc.? Do you have any students using cloud platforms and how do they deal with this issue?

Do you teach your students anything about scaling, and scaling the technical stack as the business scales? Or is the focus of your course just on the "entry" and launch? Any plans to do a follow on course for your graduates to deal with the next stage of growth of their apps?

On business scaling, do you advocate doing as much as possible "virtually" over the internet, or have you used an in house solution sales team to sell subscriptions? Have you found that businesses are more accepting now of cloud based solutions or are you facing a challenging sales process?

Whats the highest ROI marketing channel you/your students have used for your apps? LinkedIn driving to webinars? Direct mail postcards?

Question: First, the tough one: Why package and market your system as opposed to scaling one of your existing SaaS offerings to 7 figures a month or building a portfolio of 6 figure SaaS apps?

Answer: My deeper reason why for living is to help others find freedom. For me I believe freedom is kindness, and kindness is freedom. Especially personally. Kindness to yourself is the ultimate freedom. It feels so, so, freeing. When I'm quiet and ask my heart what it wants, it tells me to help others find this freedom.

Financially, and personally.

Running the Foundation is 10x more difficult than running my SaaS business. I don't ever have to work again, but I choose to.

The truth is, once you reach a certain level of financial success, your focus shifts from protecting yourself to helping others.

What my heart wants is a lot of work, but I'm down for the answer, down for the journey. I work 40 to 60 hours a week on The Foundation. I work 0 hours a week on the SaaS business and take home $20k profit a month with zero zero work. My current salary at The Foundation is $10k a month plus a bonus of profit. We have a team of 10 to 15 we manage and pay. It's a different beast. Lots of work. But lots of meaning.

Question: How do you approach growing MRR while minimizing churn and building a loyal customer base? E.g., do you find that you put just as much or more into retention as you do into acquisition? Do you find that retention is easier because of the specificity of the idea extraction process? Have any of your students built a partner channel?

If you're product is like a sugar cookie to a diabetic, you need to acquire customers all the time. If your product is like insulin to a diabetic, you can acquire a customer and keep them for life. If your software is useful, people will keep using it. If it's not, they will quit. No tricks or work arounds for that. It's really straightforward and awesome in that way. Money doesn't lie. And money follows usage. Make your app so important they always use it. Like insulin to a diabetic.

PaperlessPipeline grows at a net gain of 10 customers a month, at an average ticket of $125 a month, so it grows around $1250 per month, always. PaperlessPipeline is like insulin to a diabetic. My RecruitingNinja.com platform is like a sugar cookie, people cancel that one more.


Are most of the apps that you and your students produce aimed at the small business market? Have you or any of your students broken into the mid-market or enterprise space? Have any of your students grown into or past mid 7 figures annual revenue? What about in terms of subscriber count, whats the largest you or your students have achieved? 1k, 10k, 100k, a million?

Small business market yes, but I'm excited to see someone break this mold. We have a few. This model would work in any market.

Largest student doesn't want to be named, but he is doing $300k a month by providing a CRM to private hedge funds. He's bigger than any of my businesses.

He is definitely an anomaly - smart smart guy. Sam Ovens is quickly approaching 1M per year.

But I think the more exciting metric is not how big are our students, but how many of them are successful. We've had 36 or so graduate this year with a paying customer in a product - 10% success rate. And a dozen with working companies by the time the Foundation ended.

One student is building a GPS tracking up for door to door salesmen for roofers. So cool.

Many are still building their success.

Some are slower, but one of our slower students had Zappos.com just pre-sell on as a paying customer for her software, and now she is building it. Yeah - zappos.com bought a product before it exists. So exciting.

Question: How do you handle outages? Do you credit customers for downtime or throw them perks or anything to offset the pain of an outage? What works best in your experience?

Answer: We just communicate the outage, and don't offer anything.

How do you set up your students to deal with operations, do you outsource it or are most of the apps of small enough scale that they are just running on a basic hosting account? Do you teach your students how to setup an operations team and tiered customer support processes?

Answer: We don't teach the full blown scaling aspects of the business. Most are able to host on one server with one developer doing code and support. Beyond that is where our program ends right now. We have yet to build the scaling side of the product, which is an entirely different beast! You know… how to do all that stuff you just asked about :)

Question: What is your opinion on data portability, APIs and integration? Are you an advocate of the walled garden approach or open access? Do you put up barriers like fees for a data extract, etc. to slow folks from fleeing to competitors?

Completely open, completely transparent. No scarcity mindset.

Question: Have you run into compliance issues with differing laws in different countries or are your apps focused on the US market? Do you explicitly block users from countries with potentially "difficult" laws like Germany, Belgium, Ireland, etc.? Do you have any students using cloud platforms and how do they deal with this issue?

Answer: No we have not. I'm not sure how to answer this question. Seems out of my area of expertise.

Question: Do you teach your students anything about scaling, and scaling the technical stack as the business scales? Or is the focus of your course just on the "entry" and launch? Any plans to do a follow on course for your graduates to deal with the next stage of growth of their apps?

Answer: This would be an awesome course to add on. Not right now no we don't. Just entry and launch up to 100 users.

Question: On business scaling, do you advocate doing as much as possible "virtually" over the internet, or have you used an in house solution sales team to sell subscriptions? Have you found that businesses are more accepting now of cloud based solutions or are you facing a challenging sales process?

Answer: Do as much as possible virtually over the internet. Sales team after you have 100 users dialed in and the app working with good support ticketing system in place.

Question: Whats the highest ROI marketing channel you/your students have used for your apps? LinkedIn driving to webinars? Direct mail postcards?

Answer: By far, webinars. Cold emails to webinars, PPC to webinars, landing page to webinars. Webinars drive on average 50% of my software revenues.
 
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D. Maxwell

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Dane,

I really enjoyed your interview with Pat Flynn as it opened my eyes to a new way to identify SaaS opportunities.

I started doing a number of idea extraction calls (following up from a cold email) but it was getting a bit tricky to schedule the calls around my full-time job. I previously have done prospecting calls before/after work and during lunchtime, but the idea extraction calls can be quite long (30 minutes) and the recipients usually offered a time during their business hours downtime as opposed to after-hours.

I know I could take some time off to batch the calls, but what are some other ways your students have managed their idea extraction calls around a full-time job?

And have you or any of your students had success with idea extraction without making calls (e.g. emails or another asynchronous method)?

Thanks.

Idea extraction is best done over the phone. Sometimes, you can do one line emails back and forth with questions from time to time, but best to get people on the phone. I'd contact people from different time zones, west coast is great if you're not there, you can get some calls in there if you are mountain, central, or eastern.

I have yet to hear of an idea coming outside of being on the phone.

I appreciate hearing about your determination. Do your best to rock those calls in the half hour time slot and keep at it. And get after it in different time zones.
 

D. Maxwell

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Hello Dane, welcome to the forum and thanks for doing this. My questions:

- When offering any sort of coaching, is there any advice you have regarding disclaimers? Have you ever had any troubles with customers despite clearly stated TOS and how to deal with it?

I'm working on a self-help program (dating), should the note that it expresses personal opinions and is for entertainment purposes only be enough? Refund is a non-issue, I'm curious about people who would want much more than just a refund, or would claim my responsibility for their actions.

- One of my big and established competitors is very open to cross-promotion. Should I reach out to them when my product gets big as well, or as soon as it gets decent traction so that it's clear it's a winner? And should I reach them at all if my product is directly competitive to theirs?

No, I don't have any advice regarding disclaimers. That's an interesting situation you've found yourself in.

On your second issue, that seems more like an attorney question?

For the competitor, as soon as you have conversion numbers with 95% confidence (sample size of 25 conversions) - I'd go after them. You should absolutely cross sell, as your customers are usually aware and will often buy if you don't promote, so you might as well do it and take the moola.
 

D. Maxwell

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Thank you for doing this.

Whats the most reliable way to find niche markets to start idea extraction ?

Criteria Number 1: Lucrative industries are preferred
Criteria Number 2: Profit driven businesses
Criteria Number 3: Roughly 5,000 to 10,000 businesses (or more) in the market industry
Criteria Number 4: Reachable by phone, email, facebook, linked in, twitter, or message boards.
Criteria Number 5: Can get person with pain point on the phone
Criteria Number 6: The average successful business earns at least $100k per year in revenue, and ideally profit (guestimate this)
Criteria Number 7: The business currently pays for software of some kind

Examples: property management companies. physical therapy practice, chiropractors, pilates or yoga studios, graphic designers, realtors
 
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D. Maxwell

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Dane,

In Andy's interview with Peter Shallard, Peter talks about a 2 year cycle that entrepreneurs go through before they're able to really "get it" and move on with building a successful company. How is The Foundation able to compress that timetable for people who have never started their own company before and have other demands on them, such as a job and family?

By focusing all of the energy into a 6 month period, an added element of magic is added. When you are by yourself I can see it taking 2 years, when you're surrounded by hundreds of people all taking action, your mindset growth is accelerated.

I think we compress it by focusing on the 80/20 rule. By focusing on deep mindset, limiting beliefs, and identity issues that come up about who you think you are. Once those are removed, it's can be like rocket fuel for action.

I'd say it takes 3 months in The Foundation for the mindset to fully kick in, and then at 6 months your mind is really concrete at starting to see the world through the eyes of an entrepreneur.
 

DennisD

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Answer: By far, webinars. Cold emails to webinars, PPC to webinars, landing page to webinars. Webinars drive on average 50% of my software revenues.

I want to hear a lot more about this.
So you've got a SaaS app built.
You have a target market, and you know how to reach them (FB, email lists, ads, whatever).
How is the webinar structured?

Is the entire webinar an overview on how to use your software?
Do you present a problem, give a few tips, and present your software as a solution?
 

Mike39

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Not sure if you're going to be back online Dane but I have some questions if you get the chance, feel free to answer whatever you feel is the most important or useful if you are limited on time:

Could you shell out a general timeline for a product launch such as one for the foundation or even just talk more on launching the course.

What did the year leading up to launch look like? What were some unforeseen problems you encountered at launch that you learned and will avoid if you were to do it again, etc? How big of of a core team did you have working on this? What were some marketing tactics that killed it and others that didn't work so well?

Anything on the actual launch of the foundation really, I don't think anyone could disagree that your launch seemed VERY well done from the outside looking in.
 
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high

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Great stuff! Thanks for sharing, it's really an eye opener.

By focusing on deep mindset, limiting beliefs, and identity issues that come up about who you think you are.

What are the shortcomings of mindset that "green" recruits harbor when they enter your program?

How do you specifically go about discovering and breaking down the limiting beliefs of your members? Or even yourself? What types of limiting beliefs did you have before launching your businesses; limiting beliefs that you now unequivocally know to be untrue?

Thank you again for taking out the time to answer our questions.
 

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What do you expect the lifetime of your SaaS applications will be? Less than 3 years, 3-5, more? Do you care as long as there is a positive ROI? With your process, I expect you have a high batting average on your projects, but what derailed projects that went south?

I have a SaaS app, several iPhone apps and a good sized website, would I be a candidate for your foundation?
 

D. Maxwell

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How did you started, did you always wanted to be a entrepreneur, or was something that just naturally happened?

I was working towards a college degree and doing computer hacking. I wasn't very good at it and I didn't get accepted into the program so I went into auditing with Ernst & Young. I was miserable, got fired, and in the last year of college I picked up a book Rich Dad Poor Dad. That is what started me on the entrepreneurial path :)
 
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D. Maxwell

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Since what you are selling is a replicate-able process, the material for you is scaleable. If someone doesn't succeed following your material can they get their investment back? In essence, do you back up your claims with any sort if guarantee? Is it true that only a small % if people that buy your program ever recoup their investment? How much money does a student invest with you on average, and do you have any metrics that can validate what the average ROI is? How many people have taken your courses?

What an awesome question.

Yes. We offer two guarantees. If you are unhappy with the program, or you don't get a business with 10 paying customers on your software at the end of 6 months, you can get a full refund.

This year 2013 336 members sign up and X number refund. We don't like keeping money if people don't feel their life has changed or they didn't get the end result they wanted.

The first year I ran this program 2012, we had 88 members sign up, and only 5 produce a software company at the end of it. That's 5 / 88 = 5.6% success rate based on our guarantee. We had another 10 or so go on to start different online businesses like ecommerce, or mastermind groups, or consulting, or freelance SEO. That's 15 / 88 = 17% I'd say total happiness rate?

I can't remember all 5, but three from the first group were:

1. Sam Ovens from SnapInspect - currently $700k+ a year
2. Dan Corkhill with FollowUpBoss - currently $70k+ a year
3. Anonymous guy with CRM for hedge funds - currently $3.6M a year

The first year we started with 88, and around 30 were left at the end. Half them are now doing some entrepreneurial activity, the other half are still on their search.

I take responsibility for the low success rate of the first program, and the students who weren't successful also take responsibility as well for not really giving it their all. Where I take responsibility: The first year I didn't understand how emotional clearing worked or limiting beliefs. I didn't realize many people who want to be entrepreneurs are not lacking tactical advice, but emotional and limiting beliefs are in the way.

I also see it as, the program works. These guys used the program to become a success. So my mission now after the first program is to increase the success rate.

Enter 2013 class. LOTS we learned.

336 members started - 210 left at the end - Dozens of success stories. I guestimate an average 10% success rate (see more concrete numbers below though) - This double what we did the first year. A significant improvement. We are getting better.

Students from this year include peeps like

Carl - who made ClinicMetrics and quit his job at Tesla motors
Geordie - who made Guest Retain and quit his job as a wireless tech
Esther - who made ShootZilla - Photography business software that will save you hours every week & bring you more clientsShootZilla and I don't know if she quit her job or not yet, but she's on her way.
Renata - who didn't make software, but is now selling $10,000 custom website jobs and she's not doing any of the work - using her mindset she learned and mentornship from an awesome Foundation member Amit.

To your question, is it true that only a small percentage? Yes. 5% first year, 10% this second go around, and this third year, we are shooting for an insane 20% success rate. The success rate is not all on us though: It is up to how hard the student is willing to work. For our students who show up and play with vulnerability, their ROI is potentially infinite.

They invest on average $5k in the Foundation program, and another $1k in random expenses, the rest of the money to build the software they raise through pre-selling the product.

For the 20% success rate this year around, we are doing the program a LOT differently (I can explain in another post if you'd like), we are defining success as they have one paying customer in a business at the end of the 6 months. We are doing this because we have people who didn't reach 10 customers, they had 1, or none, but they were close, and felt like not successful. But they are!

For example, one student just landed her first customer, and it's Zapposs.com, but it's 4 months after the Foundation ended.

Our program is not an instant quick hit short term play for people, it's a 5 year play. It's like growing a tree. It takes a while. But in the end you have a ton of shade. In the first 6 months if you are fulling showing up and working hard, you will be in a positive ROI, and 5 years from now you should be completely hands off in a business fully supporting your lifestyle. Maybe even 3 years.

For metrics on this last years program, we did "success metrics" that shows a percentage breakdown for this last years program. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get complete numbers with all members. My feeling is many members are ashamed or torn after dropping out and don't want to talk with us.

I hired a guy to do the success metrics, he's a follow up beast, and out of 336 students he's only been able to get 173 on the phone. And he's contacted them multiple times.

For this year, out of 171 students we were able to get on the phone. We have 41 with software.

41 / 171 = 23% made software with at least one paying customer. The other bunch we can't reach because they either dropped out of the program or won't reply to our calls / emails - or are too busy.
 

D. Maxwell

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Can you profile 10 successful students and companies they have started using your material?

1 Sam Ovens - SnapInspect Property Inspection App Software
2 Dan Corkhill Real Estate Lead Management Software. Convert leads into closings.
3 Anonymous hedge fund dude - domain not disclosed (which he wasn't so private... grrr)
4 Carl with ClinicMetrics
5 Geordie with Guest Retain
6 Esther with ShootZilla - Photography business software that will save you hours every week & bring you more clientsShootZilla
7 Lisa with NCIDQ Study Prep - Qpractice helps you pass the NCIDQ Exam (not software, she found pain outside of software and is doing well)
8 Daniel with TTB Tamer | Federal Reporting | Brewers Report of Operations | Brewpub Report of Operations | Excise Tax | Brewery Software
9 Ed with MaidBooks Maid Software | Residential Cleaning Software & Scheduling
10 Carter and Don (partnered inside the Foundation) - ChatterLime - Live Chat Concierge

There are many more, we plan to get a results type page up that just shows all the companies that have come out of TheFoundation.com - we are just slammed getting the next program out and will be making all of that stuff as we go. Lots to do for next years class.
 

D. Maxwell

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1. What's more profitable for you - SaaS or the Foundation (software company vs educational company)?

2. As far as I don't see any problems with selling a software company, I see some issues regarding the exit of an educational company. Do you think that a business like the Foundation, which is highly attached to your persona, might attract buyers?

PS. It'd be great if you could share some thoughts on running a software vs educational company in general.

What a beautiful question!

1) My SaaS business Generated roughly $700k in revenue last year with a 25% profit margin, I kept roughly $175,000 - that was for maybe 10 hours of work the whole year. It's all on autopilot. What's nice is that my expenses to live are less than $2k a month. I now work because it's a choice :)

And my calling has shifted. I enjoy helping others find freedom (like MJ). Plus The Foundation can scale to the entire planet. My software is limited to real estate. We want this framework to be in the school systems of Malaysia, and in the college programs of India.

Enter Foundation numbers.

We did roughly $800k in revenue after refunds, and I took home $200k of that or so after paying the team and affiliates and such. Of that $200k, I was working 50 to 60 hours a week.

Not exactly worth it from a financial sense if you're just looking at the numbers. But I had a BLAST!

During that 6 month time, my software company churned out $100k or so for me, with maybe 3ish hours invested talking to the CEO - and it had an offer for $2.1 million - which I declined as it was only a 3x multiple. I wanted 6x+ multiple. (We talk about how to sell SaaS in the foundation).

In the end I believe The Foundation has more total revenue potential than my software company, and I hope I make more with The Foundation than my SaaS business because the impact of the Foundation blows my SaaS business out of the water - but it's at a huge commitment personally. (

Building SaaS is a LOT more fun than doing the education (for me), but I feel called to this arena to help others. It's hard. I get burned out dealing with the skeptics and naysayers, people who expect something for nothing, people with unrealistic expectations, but in the end those guys make my conviction stronger.

If I may, a little rant from my heart:

If at the end of my life, when I'm lying on my death bed... if I didn't do everything in my power to empower the world to be free, I will feel I lived a limited life. If I didn't do everything in my power to show the world that Freedom comes from kindness, and kindness is freedom, I will be very disappointed. My life has drastically shifted from providing for myself, to empowering others.

The Foundation for me is a vehicle to propel kindness into the world. And I mean kindness to yourself. You are awesome if you are reading this. You matter. The inner voice that talks nasty to you is a lie. Be kind to yourself, and you'll be free.

The Foundation takes you on a journey of building a SaaS, and on that journey you face all of your inner demons and self limiting beliefs, by addressing those, and being kind - you become free.

2) The Foundation right now is really tied to my face. I don't like this. My vision for the foundation is to turn it into the Alcoholics Anonymous for Entrepreneurs starting with nothing. We want to specialize in helping entrepreneurs start anywhere in the world, regardless of circumstance. How F*cking badass is that? Do you know who the creator of AA is? No. I don't want you to know who the creator of the Foundation is 10 years from now. But I want it to be everywhere :)

For Replacing me: We are bringing back our students to teach and replace me each year. And I think the Foundation will be better without me in it over time. I think there are better teachers than me. In a few years, I will be gone from the business (probably running a SaaS for a while - or who knows).

For your PS - Running an education company can seem attractive. It's a LOT of work. You charge high price points, you change peoples lives. But like any business, it comes with it's downsides.

Customers who expect something for nothing.
Skeptics who feel like I'm doing this for some unethical or greedy reason.
A never ending slew of challenges that come up 10 fold over what I have to deal with in my hands off, effortless software business.
And because of this, being always pushed to the ultimate edge of who I am to handle this energy.

And I wouldn't change it for anything in the world.

The business opportunity space sucks. It's terrible. It's full of shady people. We want to transform that by having transparency in our flaws and our strengths. We're not perfect, but you can be damned sure we do the absolute best we can.
 
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D. Maxwell

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Hey Dane,
You seem pretty big on outsourcing,
From my initial take of what you did, it was that you overcame the fears of "having to do it off your own back for it to be valuable" that I and other people have definately struggled with. So I'd ask you, what do you feel was the key that helped you really be comfortable working with others? I think the question is even more pertinent considering that your first experience with buying a website left you without much cash or patience for shoddy purchases.

Did you implement a screening process because of that first failure, and work out how to organise others creations into YOUR vision.

How did you balance "taking control" of out sourced material, and make it so coherent and valuable?
Leadership? Fearlessness? Oh cr*p moments?

I guess, I'm asking, how did you manage to become so comfortable, without the backing of it being "all your work".
I think that is a really unique skill, and I'd find it cool if you could share something that could help anyone that still struggles with "needing their own work" to be comfortable.
How is creating your vision through what you have available NOW, better than "relying on your your own creative works" to be comfortable.

And do you have an example?

Thanks Dane for taking the time to answer some questions

Hey Rogue! This sounds like you've uncovered a seriously awesome limiting belief about your identity. Let's get started dismantling it brother!

If I was to guess, it would be something like...

"In order to have or feel valuable in the world, I have to come up with an idea and do the work myself."

In other words, if other people do the work, it somehow takes away from your value as a person? Like you're almost feeling stolen from?

Yeah! DUDE!

Thinking back I totally had this... like I'd feel totally stolen from if it wasn't my unique idea, or if someone else designed the website instead of me.

When my parents would see a business and ask, who designed that website? If it wasn't me - but I outsourced it. I'd be like pissed, like "screw that I'm still awesome if I didn't design it." Oh wow... haha, this is funny. Crap did I ever have this.

It shifted slowly for me as I started hiring others.

I'd awkwardly feel the pain of not having value... but understand I couldn't do it myself so I have no other choice but to feel this pain as I continued to outsource!

I was a really self righteous, totally proud person. Ouch, hurts to remember this phase of my life.

At age 24, I'd hear other entrepreneurs be humble and give credit to their team, and I'd think "F*ck that, I'm the genius behind this, I made this happen, no one else gets the credit - even the developers are listening to me, this is my thing."

Do you know how destructive that is for me to type now? It's so gross. It like... poisons my body to even try and believe that now.

Rogue you are doing disservice to yourself and the world holding on to something that doesn't serve you. I hope it's ok that I'm saying this publicly? I'm really proud of you stepping up with such a deep issue and being so open. Thank YOU.

Rogue, think about what it would be like if this is what your life looked like.

Instead of working on your own ideas and doing your own work, you had this instead...

Instead... you'd own a 100 person company that runs without you, and it's really up to amazing things in the world. Your whole mission is not to DO anything in the company but love your employees and help them become the most amazing people. Your value shifts from doing things and coming up with ideas, to developing people to be awesome... and these people can do that work for you. Then when greatness happens, you humbly give them all of the credit, and all of the credit goes to God.

How does that picture sound? Maybe I'm off. But to me, it sounds sweet.

Instead of waking up in the morning wondering how you can feel valuable, you wake up wondering how you can make people feel like they matter, and they are loved.

Now F*cking A. For ME. That's a mission worth waking up for. But it couldn't happen until I transcended this belief.

The idea that my value comes from my unique ideas or the work I do is so self destructive. It's almost as if I'm worthless unless I do X. Where X is get the hot chick, build the business, get the house, car, money, etc...

OMG have I been doing that.

Consider the other perspective.

"My value comes from God, and was given to me at birth, nothing I do can take away or add to that value."

What's even worse Rogue, is that because of this belief, it could be driving you to do things you don't even want to do! What if your heart wants to play the piano all day, what if you just want to write a book, what if you want to hang out with and show orphaned kids they are lovable, but to feel valuable you have to come up with ideas and work.

That's a life not fully aligned... not fully alive :-(

Once you realize you are totally and completely valuable. Then you can work on things you love.

And I have news for you. You ROCK Rogue. You are F*cking awesome.
 

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Thank you very much for coming here to take the time do this AMA.

Why did you choose not to learn to code/do your own developing, and purely outsource those aspects of work? I realize that your decision has obviously worked for you, I'm just curious as to your reasoning behind that.

Hey Stefan, learning to code would be fun, and exciting I think. I have a desire to learn to code, but that desire conflicts with wanting to own a business and not have to work. In the Foundation, we don't allow you to write code on your own projects, it's prohibited.

If you write a line of code before you get one pre-sale on your product, you are kicked out of the foundation.

No product can be created until you get a pre-sale. We don't allow you to sabotage yourself.

Anyway, for me, it just never made sense to do it.

Here's what I've noticed on the entrepreneur spectrum as a teacher over the last couple of years.

The greater the novice of an entrepreneur, the more the emphasis is on product.
The greater the expert of an entrepreneur, the more the emphasis is NOT on the product - but marketing.

Now if you are into making great products to do your marketing, that is marketing in and of itself. Today great products do their own marketing, but they are generally built by excellent marketers.

The more likely you are to want to develop the product yourself, the more likely you are a novice entrepreneur. NOW... this is NOT a blanket statement. Just something I've noticed.

I've noticed a trend for people starting out... to think that the value is the product. It's not. It's marketing and management of the organization that creates multiple and remarkable products.

The newbie entrepreneur would probably rather have a kick a$$ product.
The all star entrepreneur would probably rather have a list of 10,000 people on their email list with no product.

Take AppSumo.com, they didn't start by making their own products, at all, they just had bad a$$ entrepreneur mindsets so they did a better job marketing other peoples products.

The details I'm referencing are fully laid out in this video with the 4 types of entrepreneurs and marketers: The Secret Language Of Millionaires | The Foundation
 

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I want to hear a lot more about this.
So you've got a SaaS app built.
You have a target market, and you know how to reach them (FB, email lists, ads, whatever).
How is the webinar structured?

Is the entire webinar an overview on how to use your software?
Do you present a problem, give a few tips, and present your software as a solution?

I've spent over $20,000 on info products and experts learning how to do webinars. What you're asking are for the golden nuggets.

I'll do my best to give you actionable advice.

And to do that...

I'll use a friends business as an example.

Assume you are already building a list on your website for your software.

Let's use Proposal Software | Bidsketch

Examples of ways to do this: have people enter their email address to request pricing for your product, or have some email capture for some added benefit with your product.

Proposal Software | Bidsketch does a great job with their free proposal example.

Then on that list of people who don't convert to buyers, I'd market weekly webinars like...

"How To Win 200% More Of Your Proposals" ... or "3 Idiotic Ways Firms Lose On Their Proposals" or... "17 Ways To Design Proposals That Win - Almost Every Time"

I'd try all 3 and find the winner, then repeat that one.

Let's use the 17 ways example because I like that one best, it feels most alive to me.

I'd go in, and for 5 minutes announce names of people on the webinar, call them out, ask where they are from.
5 minutes in I would start right into the 17 ways.
Within the 17 ways I'd sneak in little snippets about how bidsketch helps with each of the 17 ways. Very soft selling.
At the end of the 17 ways I'd make a killer offer.
Sign up for bidsketch right now and I'll throw in the top 5 proposals that have the highest success rate out of 1000's we track here at bidsketch. You'll get these as a free bonus if you sign up. (Note: newbies offer discounts, experts offer bonuses).

Then as people sign up and pay I'd announce them to the entire webinar so people know people are buying.

IF I HAD NO LIST

I would run ads on facebook and linked in targeting graphic design firms and graphic designers, pump them to the same webinar, rinse and repeat. This is slick because you can run ads for say $1,000 and then stop them, run the webinar, and see if you break even. The goal of the webinar is to break even on the front end, and then break the bank on the backend with recurring payments.

This option is great because you don't even need a website to do it. You can just run people straight to a webinar page!

I launched paperlesspipeline with 16 paying users on a webinar before I ever built a marketing website.

In fact, here is the first version of what PaperlessPipeline looked like: https://sites.google.com/site/paperlesspipelinehome/

I only made that marketing website after I had 60 paying users.

Notice how ugly. Notice no logo. Notice almost nothing.

This is the idea called Minimalistic Selling. It's the art of doing the least amount possible to sell your product. It's awesome, freeing, and fun.

Now... today... for PaperlessPipeline, we pay anywhere from $70 to $140 for one paying customer, and we make that back in the first month, breaking even. We use PPC on adwords for Transaction Management software keywords, get people to register, and then a sales guy follows up for one on one webinars. On those webinars he closes with an awesome offer.
 
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RogueInnovation

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Instead of working on your own ideas and doing your own work, you had this instead...

Instead... you'd own a 100 person company that runs without you, and it's really up to amazing things in the world. Your whole mission is not to DO anything in the company but love your employees and help them become the most amazing people. Your value shifts from doing things and coming up with ideas, to developing people to be awesome... and these people can do that work for you. Then when greatness happens, you humbly give them all of the credit, and all of the credit goes to God.

How does that picture sound? Maybe I'm off. But to me, it sounds sweet.

(rogue: it is sweet)

"My value comes from God, and was given to me at birth, nothing I do can take away or add to that value."

What's even worse Rogue, is that because of this belief, it could be driving you to do things you don't even want to do! What if your heart wants to play the piano all day, what if you just want to write a book, what if you want to hang out with and show orphaned kids they are lovable, but to feel valuable you have to come up with ideas and work.

That's a life not fully aligned... not fully alive :-(

What I've really noticed about your style of giving insight, is that you see value in others, see value in a broad base of opportunities, and aren't at all closed off to how people can make money together through business. Its like you are the opposite of the "hoarder". Its such a valuable and humble perspective, so you really have come far from your limiting belief into something I believe is very right, and also needed.
Maybe thats why you are so passionate about the foundation and its work, and I can really see the glistenings of its greater potential you are working on there.

I loved the above bolded quote. Its about bringing out the value in our world and refusing to doubt that value in ourselves.
Also, regarding the section I underlined, I'm glad you say that because it happens to be something I believe in. I always try to push myself to do what I am about, rather than hassle myself with the pressure of "just making it". I try to keep steady as I work on myself, take breaks, help friends and stuff, because, whilst I can't do biz exactly how I want to yet, I believe I will sooner or later cuz I won't give up.
And having seen me not give up is pretty awesome.

I guess my limiting belief comes from "just barely" not giving up, rather than having limitless patience with it and being totally cool about it.
I guess I was like that because everyone around made me a bit sceptical. And that sceptecism crept into me and I couldn't fight it off. That led to competetiveness, that lead to being more guarded, and that led to me feeling a lot of pressure on my business' success. THAT led to unrealistic expectations, and that led to me protecting those expectations... Which is what then made me "feel like they would steal my value".

Its true that I want to make my products as valuable as they can be, for the benefit of the world, but the strategy is the wrong one. If I want to create a STANDARD that I live up to, I need a motivating factor that gets me up and going better than pressure does. IO don't know what that is yet, but I'll try to find it by keeping my mind open (thanks so much).

Also, its cool that you point this all out, because I was unsure as to whether I would be understood as I haven't been in the business scene. I'm mostly self taught, and had a mentor whom was more like a yoda, and consequently I am a little bewildered by how the guys in the scene talk. I'm glad there are guys out there like you who appreciate the little guys, because in my experience that is where all the potential comes from.

You know what Dane, I think that your past experience with this closed mentality is a good thing, because, now you really know what it means to fight for the little guys. Because you WERE the little guy, and you didn't armor up when getting into the fight, you just did it conan loin cloth style. I admire that, and I guess I'll take a glass of wine and reflect on it/remember it when I get petty (its better to say it than hide it too).

Hmm, sitting back and thinking about it, I think that limiting belief led to a strange sense of entitlement which really handicaps my ability to not only communicate but to EXPRESS value. It leads to repression of not only me but my product and its value. (light bulb) Sh*t, I think I've had it for like 6 years, going back to well before I got into business, and I think it was the reason my "passion" based businesses failed. Ewww... Man, now I understand your disgust, I just realised that I couldn't pursue my dreams for 6 years BECAUSE of that hidden belief. I've had everything I needed, but was crippled by it.

Gah, screw that man.
Time for a new attitude. So here goes.

"Everyone is awesome and they don't need to prove it to me"
I think they just get a bit mixed up, and that most people don't notice, can't help them out.
"If there is a solution to the world it is going to come from multiple angles, loads of people because it isn't about one mans value but value itself not being closed off".

We've been closed off too long. Linkin Park - Breaking The Habit full hd - YouTube
Time to break that habit, and champion worth itself, even if its covered under a bit of dirt and hard work.

You know what is interesting man, as huge of a tangent what you said made for me, it gets back to my exact question.
How to be comfortable with outsourcing like you did... I think I know.
I can't word it, but, I know.

"You shared in the worth others fed back to you".
Oh I get it! Worth is about a mutual exchange and NEVER about an individuals deeds. Deeds in themselves are weak, but the presence of mutual exchange creates a feeling of self worth.

Man, that is pure gasoline! You walked that path like a boss.
F'n cheers! Thank you so much for that little chat :D
It was unexpectingly F*cking awesome.

You've got a very solid purpose Dane. It shines through in what you do.


Thanks for having the patience to talk TO me, it means a lot.
Also, I like what you did when structuring your formula, it was really smart.
Have you thought about really differentiating yourself from self help stigma's, because (I hope I can be honest) my first impression was "ooh, really cool, but I might need to assume its just one of those biz sharades". I now KNOW it isn't.
(hang on I'll find out exactly what triggered me to be suspicious of that) Ah yes, it was the group session, it came across to me like "I want to show you a group of happy people to show you I'm the real deal" and I thought "everyone gets social proof from a seminar group", and for me it sucked some value away from what I was expecting.

Having said that and now knowing different, I wonder if you are purposely targetting a thinner selection of people than your potential target audience because of how much work is involved in running these groups.
Hmm, I wonder if you can refine the process by identifying some key issues within your groups.

For example: Lets say joe is sitting in a corner when you speak about the topic of value for all, can you then assume that joe is having an issue here?
If yes, then it would pay off time wise to select a few key times when this happens and have some ready made plans for side instructors to swoop in with. It would "reduce drag" and help you streamline the process which would allow you to rely on the strength of your main program with less deviation (less effort spent pleasing people), which might end up cutting down the time it takes to teach groups, which might then allow you to take on less personal responsibility and hand off some responsibilities to others, which will enable you to purposely reach out to an even larger audience with your promo stuff.

What experience do I have behind that?
I guess its down to training people. I always found that people hide away, when they are needing of teaching the most. Its impossible if you stop classes to talk to them, so I'd often get someone to run front of shop so I could come in and address things from the back.

Martial artists used to create coreography for roughly this purpose, the same with salsa dancing etc.
I just have a feeling that if you come to those guys on the edges one on one in a more formalised way, it will increase the percieved value of your program. "If you don't sell your strength it isn't real to them" is something I think of when seeing this, cuz I'm sure you do it, but you do it out of the good of your heart so much that maybe no one sees just how skillful it is (and it is).

IMO, sell THAT (what you just did with me) a little bit surer, and whoa.
 

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Not sure if you're going to be back online Dane but I have some questions if you get the chance, feel free to answer whatever you feel is the most important or useful if you are limited on time:

Could you shell out a general timeline for a product launch such as one for the foundation or even just talk more on launching the course.

What did the year leading up to launch look like? What were some unforeseen problems you encountered at launch that you learned and will avoid if you were to do it again, etc? How big of of a core team did you have working on this? What were some marketing tactics that killed it and others that didn't work so well?

Anything on the actual launch of the foundation really, I don't think anyone could disagree that your launch seemed VERY well done from the outside looking in.

general timeline for launch:

3 months before launch: Throw up key desire video with opt in to the bonus, in this case, a case study. Start getting leads by sharing on Facebook. Then start blitzing interview sites with links back to TheFoundation.com. Make people wait for the case study to build tension.

1 month before launch: release case study

The launch month, 30 day timeline: release one video weekly.

video 1 - channel existing desire from your customer into our world - while creating the desire to learn more - The Secret Language Of Millionaires | The Foundation
video 2 - authority and likeability - Behind the Scenes of a $500,000/Year Business | The Foundation
video 3 - origin story about your company - Why Do We Fail? Answer: These Three Pillars | The Foundation
video 4 - addressing objections - How To Discover The Hidden Blind Spots Crippling Your Potential | The Foundation
video 5 - show proof - Shift Your Mindset. Shift Your Life: The Proof | The Foundation

Video 4 and 5 were done in one week. Monday video 4, thursday video 5.

There's a lot more going on, but that's a rough idea of how we thought out the timeline.


Your Questions: What were some unforeseen problems you encountered at launch that you learned and will avoid if you were to do it again, etc? How big of of a core team did you have working on this? What were some marketing tactics that killed it and others that didn't work so well?

My answer: Our merchant froze our account the day of launch, they held over $200,000 for 6 months. We had little to go off of. That sucked.

Core team was 3 people last year. This year, it's 10!

Marketing tactics that killed it: Offering a bonus at the end of the interviews we did around the net instead of just sending people to TheFoundation.com - however we are being lazy this year and not doing it as much as we should. Oops. Overwhelmed :)

None of the marketing tactics we did, didn't work last year. It was all on fire.

Facebook CRUSHED it, over 20% of our traffic was from shares. Give away PDF's for shares instead of opt in's.
 

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What do you expect the lifetime of your SaaS applications will be? Less than 3 years, 3-5, more? Do you care as long as there is a positive ROI? With your process, I expect you have a high batting average on your projects, but what derailed projects that went south?

I have a SaaS app, several iPhone apps and a good sized website, would I be a candidate for your foundation?

10 years? Haha. I don't know. Forever? A solid SaaS application solving a serious pain, should last as long as you stay on top of it with new features - and this is easy, invest 25% of revenue back into dev, and let the dev take care of it.

I like to build businesses that are like insulin to a diabetic. Too many software products are like sugar cookies.

Insulin: PaperlessPipeline.com - $60k a month and growing with no effort
Sugar Cookie: RecruitingNinja.com $5k a month and dieing with no effort

Healthstatus it depends on how much money you are making with your businesses? My hunch is that you are NOT a good fit for the Foundation with what you've got under your belt - congrats - unless... the only reason I'd join is if you're the kind of mind that loves to learn new approaches to SaaS.

I buy all the expensive courses on the internet. Roughly 30% of my income goes back into education.

This weekend I fly out to a mastermind group my partner and I paid $40,000 to be apart of.

I highly advise buying info-products.

One of the best skills I've learned is suspending my disbelief.

With one of my friends who is skeptical about things in general, I find he isn't that thrilled with his life. It's not always the case. While skepticism can help you from getting screwed, it can also prevent you from getting awesome new perspectives.

I buy products all the time my friends question me for. But then again, I'm the one teaching all of my friends :)
 
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DennisD

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How has gmail adding the 'promotions' tab affected your open rate? (either for the foundation or SaaS promotions?)
do you do anything to actively combat it?
 

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Great stuff! Thanks for sharing, it's really an eye opener.

What are the shortcomings of mindset that "green" recruits harbor when they enter your program?

How do you specifically go about discovering and breaking down the limiting beliefs of your members? Or even yourself? What types of limiting beliefs did you have before launching your businesses; limiting beliefs that you now unequivocally know to be untrue?

Thank you again for taking out the time to answer our questions.

Question: What are the shortcomings of mindset that "green" recruits harbor when they enter your program?

Answer: The more common beliefs I find that are deep identity beliefs. A fear of failure means something bad and a fear that I'm not made out to be an entrepreneur.

Failure is awesome, not bad.
And you are born to be whoever you want to be :)

We have failure fridays at The Foundation this year where people celebrate failures with each other.

To discover a limiting belief: Limiting beliefs are designed to come up while you take action. While you are taking action, pay attention to your body, is it getting tight, clenched? If your body is in a state of compression instead of expansion, you're thinking a limiting thought.

Our top student Carl Mattiola reversed 32 limiting beliefs on his path to creating ClinicMetrics.com

To break down and reverse a limiting belief we follow The Work of Byron Katie :: Homepage - framework. It works very well.

It can be hard to do on your own, which is why I recommend having someone do it with you, they can just read outloud the questions for you from The Work.

Limiting beliefs are challenging, but doable. They are usually deep blocks. And blocks are things you can't see for a reason, they are blocks afterall. It takes a second set of compassionate loving eyes to dismantle them.

Once you apply consciousness to a block, things start to shift. Just putting words around the limiting belief and knowing it's there can sometimes be enough! Othertimes, do The Work from Byron Katie.

Limiting beliefs I had? All of them.

I'm unqualified. No one will listen to me. I'm just a kid, who wants to work with me? I don't know anything about software. I don't have money. I don't have an idea. I don't have credibility.

I just held on to all of those beliefs while I took action. Instead of believing I don't have an idea, I asked others for ideas. Instead of not having money, I asked "how can I get money?"

I remember feeling totally unqualified, but people still listened to me so I went with it. I remember thinking, how in the world does this person think I'm qualified? But I just ignored the question and kept taking action in spite of the limiting thought.

Now it's reversed through direct experience. I find it awesome to take action and let experience reverse a thought. Othertimes I have to do the Work.

Limiting beliefs suck, they cause you to doubt yourself and produce awful feelings in your body.

If it feels light, it's right, it's empowering.

If it feels heavy, it's a limiting belief your thinking.

Imagine starting a business feeling light. That's the power.
 

1step

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Thanks for doing this Dane its been awesome.

I followed your launch closely last year and had a question.

I remember two applicants you profiled last year, one had sent a looong handwritten letter to you about why he wanted in the program, another chased you on FB trying to get accepted into the program. What were their results with the program?
 

Execution=King

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Dane, thank you for doing this AMA.

Questions:

What is your refund policy, and what percentage of each Foundation class has asked to be refunded?
 

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I was a skeptic when I heard you were going to do this AMA. However, I must admit your answers have been very thorough and very forthright. You seem honest. You haven't shied away from hard questions and have answered some questions I didn't think you would answer. Thank you for doing this AMA. I think you probably changed a lot of perceptions, including mine.
 
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Dane, thank you for doing this AMA.

Questions:

What is your refund policy, and what percentage of each Foundation class has asked to be refunded?

He pretty much answered that question already above. Please read the rest of the thread.
 

FreeMan

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My SaaS business Generated roughly $700k in revenue last year with a 25% profit margin

I understand you reinvest 25% of revenue back into development, where does the remaining 50% of revenue go to?

Is 25% a typical profit margin for the SaaS businesses you have come across? As I thought it would be higher. Or is that because of the CEO you have running it?
 

theBiz

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If you write a line of code before you get one pre-sale on your product, you are kicked out of the foundation.

Finally. This forces people to stop TALKING, and start ACTING... best advice to any aspiring online or offline entrepreneur for that matter.
 
M

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Thanks for being very transparent and thorough, I appreciate that.

There's one more thing I'd like to ask: what do you think about building a small audience first by publishing some good content in a particular market, gaining trust & credibility, learning needs and then creating a software product (and possibly other products & services that fill the needs)? I know it will take more time than emailing and calling companies, but personally I'd prefer to do it this way.

So basically what are your thoughts on building an audience first (example: the way Pat Flynn launches his online businesses) vs product first approach (example: Eben Pagan, as far as I know he didn't have any audience when he was starting his dating empire, he started with a simple ebook and then went from there).
 

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