What is your life like without a college degree?

[jazb]

university did very little for me professionally. do i regret it? absolutely not.

I have friends for life from college and had the time of my life. i grew up a lot and really found myself. yes it might be a few more years and a bit more debt, but i would never change it.

Bare in mind though that i'm from the UK, and when i went to university, it was significantly cheaper than the US, not to mention MUCH lower interest rates once i left...

 

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[Ubermensch]

I hope that folks here will understand, from the discussion we are having, that education or having a degree is not the problem. It's the funding. Hence the urgent need to reform the educationnal sector in North America.

Survival of the fittest.

 

[BlakeRVA]

First, let me say the purpose of this thread is not to convince readers to either attend or avoid attending college. As MJ has said before, the forum is not the place where major life decisions can be made for you. This information is not to base YOUR decision to either attend or leave college on! There are not cookie cutter paths in life. Your path to success will most likely look different than everyone else here. While this can certainly give you perspective on what to expect, you must ultimately decide what is right for you. No one else can do this for you. Weigh out the pros and cons for yourself and base your decision on that. Do not assume that you will drop out of school and be a millionaire like X, or if you move to this location you will have financial freedom like Y. There are no shortcuts to success, only a series of good decisions based on the individual and hard work.

So why the thread? It seems there are no shortage of stories of people who went the 'conventional' route by attending college who then received a coveted high paying job in their desired industry. But what about all the folks that didn't go to college or never finished? Where are they now? I would like this thread to serve as a resource that answers these questions by giving readers a perspective of what life is really like without a college degree. This can be a place to share the successes and struggles, the funny and ridiculous stories of what your life without a degree has been like.

So, if you are living without a college degree feel free to share stories or answer some of the provided questions below to help people get perspective.

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?
- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?
- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?
- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?
- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

Questions for drop outs:
- If you dropped out, how far along were you and why?
- Do you regret not finishing?
- What did you do after you left school?
- What was your initial reason for attending college?

These questions are not exhaustive, so please if you feel there are some important or helpful questions to address, do so. I look forward to hearing everyone's perspective.

 

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[Jake]

Questions for anyone:
1.Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?
2. Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?
3. If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?
4. you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?
5. Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

1. No. I networked with people while I was deployed in the military and received a job offer for 120k or so. I found a better company that ended up paying me around $200k.

2.Probably. More money? No

3.Bootstrap

4. I go for free for an easy visa and money I signed up for. No intentions of receiving a degree but helps build my network.

5. Definitely not. My suppliers don't ask for my credentials.

 

[RadioActive]

Probably different in the world of dentistry.

100% agreed with this, I wouldn't want a doctor or dentist working on me if he/she didn't attend school..

 

[RBefort]

*clicking through job postings....oh, college degree preferred but must have high school diploma. How about this one? "Requires high school diploma or equivalent work experience." (10 ads later after the same thing). "To become a scientist position, must have PhD and 10 years equivalent experience." Thinks back to day I received college degree that I leave at my mom's in a storage chest, I snap out of it and go WHAT THE PHUCK DID I WASTE 8 YEARS OF MY LIFE AND 60K DOING GETTING THIS DEGREE?* These are the thoughts that go through my head on a daily basis. F that degree. Sales for life. I think it'd be a lot cooler convo starter to say you didn't graduate and pursued other things. Watch how people can't react, but when you make it, it'd be pretty badass I'd think.

 

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[OVOvince]

i keep what i do on the low so people always wonder when im going back to school.

some even tell me that they think i should go.

i have full intentions of going back to school someday to finish a bachelors and getting an MBA and everything before or around the age of 30, just because I want to go through a formal study process. but i want to do it after i have financial freedom.

 

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[PedroG]

Some go out of their way to discourage people from going to school, but it really depends on the person, I think. School and entrepreneurship are not mutually exclusive. I have a bachelor's degree and 13 years of experience in my field, but I recently decided to finish my master's which I stopped pursuing 5 years ago. I'm also gonna be getting an MBA right after that.

Why? I enjoy learning, and while there are so many people that get an MBA for the wrong reasons, I think I'm actually a perfect candidate because I do have a passion for it. Some may say it's a waste, but I'm actually looking forward to getting a formal business education. I learn better that way. It depends on the person I guess. Some feel comfortable reading articles online, while I don't feel I've learned enough unless I read a book from start to finish.

Also, I started wondering whether I was putting limits on myself when coming up with business ideas. Like for example, as a software person I think about creating a SaaS-type business. But what if that's not where I will be the most successful? Are there other things that I'm not even considering because of the box I put myself in?

Networking is also another issue for someone like me. I don't have an outgoing personality, and it's tough for me to meet new people. I wanted to do something to get out of my routine where I just work alone on some website, and if it doesn't work, create another one.

I'm beginning to see just how important networking really is for opening your mind up to other possibilities. I think getting an MBA for me, will be a good accomplishment. You never know what can come of it: a business idea, new friendships that can later lead to business ideas and/or business partners, etc.

My employer will be covering most of the cost, so I see no reason not to take advantage of it.

 

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[Bouncing Soul]

One thing I have noticed in people that dropped out of college and are older (as in over 40) is a twinge of regret, even among very successful people I know. Another thing I noticed is related, I see a lot of "signaling" by these people with status goods as a way of showing "they've made it". I am a university educated engineer who was in the semiconductor industry, and the few guys like @SteveO I knew were among the best, and paid commensurately. You can even become a Public Engineer with work experience and no degree. That is certainly a viable path for techies in particular.

By the numbers, it is a mistake for most people to drop out of college. For my kids, I hope they've already got money making skills and businesses going by the time they're 18. Then they go on to advanced educations in the classical sense. Not just to get a pedigree used as society's sorting mechanism to determine who gets the jobs alphabetizing insurance forms, and those who lose (no degree) clean the toilets.

I think by the time my kids are 18, education will be a radically different system though.

 

[SteveO]

it is a mistake for most people to drop out of college.

Only a mistake if you plan on working for someone or are taking specialized training for a specific purpose. The reference to "by the numbers" is simply a statistic that would match up to non-entrepreneurs.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Only a mistake if you plan on working for someone or are taking specialized training for a specific purpose. The reference to "by the numbers" is simply a statistic that would match up to non-entrepreneurs.

Universities today are much better places for entrepreneurs, many have incubators now that can be great assets. I don't see this mentioned often but I just toured one last week and saw the possibility.

Successful tech founders tend to have MS degrees. A lot of the stuff I see about business owners is skewed by slowlane businesses and matches the genpop, but Tom Stanley's Millionaire Mind about decamillionaires also found higher than average education levels across all industries. Is the education the cause, or is it just the type of person that tends to get more education tends to also be more disciplined and go after business harder? Don't know...

Will the future fastlane population have lower levels of education? Don't know that either, but maybe.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

BTW- I actually think one of the best arguments to not go to college for an entrepreneur is...failing is likely going to suck much worse.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

Also- my dad didn't get a college degree and has been a business owner my whole life.

 

[BlakeRVA]

I would like to quickly interject and reiterate that this is not the place to be discussing the value of higher education or whether or not it is the right path for the aspiring entrepreneur. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading some of the stories and perspectives offered by posters here thus far and would like to continue down that path. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so through a private message. Thanks!

 

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[PedroG]

Universities today are much better places for entrepreneurs

The Master's in Computer Science that I'll be finishing before doing my MBA has an Entrepreneurship option. If you choose to do a thesis, it's basically starting a business from scratch, including all the market research and product prototype, which is kinda cool.

 

[DaRK9]

3 months in.
Nope.
Web design then became a bartender.
Parents.

Life is great. I work nights, get to have loads of fun, make drinks and meet new (generally rich, lot of 30k millies mixed in) people all night.

And even with slow days so far I've averaged around $33 an hour this month.

 

[Daniel A]

@DaRK9 How did / do you get started bartending? It's something I might want to do. Advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Michael W.]

Wife just got promoted. Got a nice raise. Making about 60k now, no degree in the medical field. Not sales either. Not fast lane but not poor house either. Just told she will have a whole department under her in the coming months. I'd guess around 65-70k by mid year. Not bad for no college. I did the same although I was a tad but younger. Let me say that an extra 70k plus benefits doesn't hurt.

 

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[GMJimmy]

Hi All,

Can reflect on both sides. I have a college degree, and I had a life before college degree too.

I worked besides school since I was 12, and I graduated when I was 27. That's 15 years of work and life without a college degree.

When I was 12-15 I took mainly physical jobs, on construction yards, scrapyards, recycle plants, carwashes on weekends and during holidays. It started to change at around 14 when I met a businessman and I don't know how and why but I ended up making marketing campaigns for him (he had a small retail store where he sold chinese crap and counterfeit clothes). It was in 1994, no internet etc. I came up with a brave idea like 'everything for 1cent', designed their flyers, photocopied 5000x and asked friends to distribute on the weekend. On next monday an extreme long queue was waiting for the shop to open. Success. In advance I asked for about 2weeks salary for this which seemed a huge money to me especially because it didn't feel like work and I was ready in an afternoon, and he was more than happy to pay. And it was a returning business. Then I knew there's an easy way to make money.

Unfortunately he was jailed soon after (not because of this but he was a really shady guy), and at the same time our family became really poor and had to move to the coutryside. I had to work my way up again.

Because I had these experience of hard money vs easy money, I was not only looking for ways to make more money, but to make it with the least effort. For years I was working in contractor-type works (but with no contract). I could always find something so I cant say that it was hard but even during work I was looking for ways out of the rat race. I saw 2 ways and I was walking both pathways: to get better jobs with better salary, and to look for the easy big money. I was continuously learning, not just in school, but developing my money-making skills (I dont say business-skills because some were not business related, but i.e. learning typewriting or photoshop). By the age of 18 I was making 2-3 times the monthly minimum wage, plus going to school. I worked about 20 hours a week.

By that time I already had good connections with several businesses and businessmen, other contractors etc. I had an established reputation and could easily grow. Lack of college degree was not a limitation. I was always helping out my clients with my work and ideas, and I was always happy to chat with them about their business, business challenges and posible solutions, plans etc. I could have charged for these as 'consultations' but I respected them more and with most of them I made friedships: and you don't ask money from your friends to talk to them

I decided to go to university for 2 reasons:
1: I knew I can work and learn at the same time. That was my lifestyle for years so that was quite normal to me.
2: I had a feeling that without a degree I may not reach my full potential. And I was sure that I would regret it later if I don't go to college.

Being a college student let me raise my wages as well, and also I was continuously incorporating my new knowledge into my work. It opened up new possibilities. By the end of the college in an average month I made about 10x the national minimum wage, by 20-30 hours of weekly work.

After graduation I was offered a full time job by one of my clients. Good money, easy job for me.

So I think if you are a contractor or businessman, a college may not help you more than the same time allocated to personal and business development, networking, finding lifelong clients etc. But it depends, no two situations are the same.

I feel it easier to get a higher paying job, and it opens many doors as well.

But if you are going for fastlane, you need to decide whether it's part of your plan and your vehicle.

To me, a college degree in itself is just +30 mph in the slowlane:

That may be enough to keep you there forever (good job, comfortable enough life etc).

But maybe an exit to the fastlane as well if you use that acceleration and make it a business.

 

[SteveO]

I get to watch people years younger than me with nice 60k a year jobs....

Partying after work..

Buying nice cars, Buying nice houses..

Being able to buy food..

Being able to afford to go out on a date..

Not living in the hood..

Being happy that theyre "making it"

While I didn't go to college...and make 9/hour.

It's fun.

The question is simple. What are you doing about it?

 

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[wade1mil]

I've applied for jobs a few time in the past five years. This may just be my perception because I'm always in a bad mood when I'm looking for jobs, but I'd guess 75% of the jobs that pay more than $40k a year (guaranteed) say a bachelor's degree is required. It makes it pretty tough to afford food when you don't have a degree or friends because you've worked at home the past five years

This is from Georgetown, so they may have just made these stats up, but here is what they say (no $40k minimum):
By educational attainment: 35 percent of the job openings will require at least a bachelor's degree, 30 percent of the job openings will require some college or an associate's degree and 36 percent of the job openings will not require education beyond high school.

 

[Impressive M]

I put my two older kids through college. One needed a psych degree, the other an engineering degree. Both professions where credential is required.

I wouldn't pay for a liberal arts degree, or other bullshit degrees like "business."

very true, my wife is a doctor and there is no way she could have done this without spending 6 Plus years in college... Thats' why i mention, kids gotta come up with Logical explanation.

 

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[Vigilante]

You bring up a good point, and yes, I didn't address that at all in my post. in my case, when I graduated, I owed only 13k, which is nothing. I was making six figures within 6-7 years of graduating. I agree that if we are talking about having a shit load of debt, then it is a completely different story. It also depends on what you are actually studying and what your ROI is on that.

So I agree completely. In my case it was a no-brainer because I wasn't accumulating a lot of debt. And I completely agree about liberal arts degrees being bullshit. But if you want to be a software engineer, you need to have at least a bachelor's degree and it isn't a bad degree to have in the meantime (if you can do it without owing too much) while you figure out what to do fastlane-wise.

It is not just be accumulated debt though that you have to factor. It is the total cost paid for the education and all related costs, combined with the missed opportunity cost of getting beat in the workplace for that duration of time by others who have a several year gap on your lifetime earnings.

In nearly every case, the break even point somewhere between 12 to 20 years.

Are you working in a job right now that requires collegiate certification?

 

[MattR82]

Hmm it's not just the states though. You leave university in Australia with upwards of 40k (aus) in debt pretty easily.

It seems pretty clear to me the business and finance degrees are among the worst. A friend of mine spent 5 years doing a finance degree to essentially do data entry for Macquarie Bank. Although he wasn't exactly a go getter.

What vigilante said about monopoly money is so true haha. I remember when I finally earned enough to have to start paying my 12k leftover debt back. What, you mean this wasn't free?!?! Haha. FFS young kids are getting pushed by family to get a MASSIVE debt at 18 years of age, for something they are probably only doing because they don't know what else to do, and are probably never going to use anyway! Or feel obliged to use it and are stuck in something they hate for ten years. I can't see anything good here... the most successful businessman I know who is around my age (early 30's) did essentially 3 degrees (med, law and int'l business) over 8 years at a highly expensive and exclusive private university, and his advice these days is DON'T GO. You won't learn anything you can't find out for yourself, or easily and cheaply hire someone for.

My advice to anyone I meet that says they MUST go to uni is to take some time, even if it's just a year to figure out what you really want to do at least.

 

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[Bila]

Survival of the fittest.

Let's just say that i belong to another school of thinking

 

[Deleted35442]

I hope that folks here will understand, from the discussion we are having, that education or having a degree is not the problem. It's the funding. Hence the urgent need to reform the educationnal sector in North America.

Haha, amen. @Bila keep an eye on the site http://www.defaultnow.com which will address this issue within the week.

Thought I'd take a stab at @BlakeRVA "dropout" questions.
1. I didn't drop out. I took a leave. I'll probably finish after I have at least $10MM in change if for nothing else, to continue cxxxxxxxxxxx

2. No way. Wasn't learning squat compared to what I know now. Echoing other comments here. College prepares you to become a sheeple, even with the advent of the incubator initiatives mine was undertaking. Money better spent starting a company.
3. What I did is what I'm doing. A consulting business with my more immediate focus, a controversial eComm apparel business.
4. It was an Ivy, I thought it was just "the way" and started with the ambition of working on Wall Street. Wanted to put in 2-3 yrs in Investment Banking, gravitate to HF/PE/VC after that. Know a shit ton about investing already. My intro posts details more https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...live-in-a-van-in-nyc-and-read-mjs-book.63583/

Edited by Vigilante for language

 

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[Vigilante]

Survival of the fittest.

Increasing % of likes to 51%

 

[RadioActive]

I don't even have a high school degree, and life is good. Currently work as a auto detailer making $22 an hour which is more than some college graduates, and I freelance on the side.

 

[Ninjakid]

What's my life like…

Financially, I'm doing fine. Better than a lot of my peers I suppose. I'm not completely where I want to be, but I'm working on changing that. The thing is too I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, where your money doesn't take you very far lol.

No I don't think I've had to work harder because I don't have a degree. In fact I think I'm kind of a lazy person who doesn't have to work very hard.

If I could, would I go back to school? Well it's funny you ask because actually I can and I am. But I'm going for a totally different reason than most people. I'm going because I want to indulge my scientific pursuits, and work in an environment with like-minded people. But this has nothing to do with money, it's only because I love science, and want to take on a challenge.

The good thing about being an entrepreneur/freelancer right now is that I'm not reliant on a degree for my livelihood. If I want to supposedly go to university, and decide to take a year off to climb mountains, I can do that. I'm so spontaneous about what I feel like doing sometimes I feel I don't know myself

When I take on clients, they ask if I have a degree, but in the end, they're more interested in if I'll do the thing that they need me to do. From my knowledge, I don't think I've ever not gotten a job because of degreelessness.

So if you want to go to college or university, that's totally your choice, but think about why you want to go and to what end your degree or even just experience will help you achieve. Don't be one of these people who say, "I need to get a degree because it's better for me," but actually have no idea what they're going to do with it or how it's going to help them. And then they get disappointed because they thought education would "help" them in some dubious way.

One final note, if you don't have a degree but still looking to make a lot of money, check out
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...ith-no-degree-no-feedback-no-portfolio.58837/

 

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[PedroG]

It is not just be accumulated debt though that you have to factor. It is the total cost paid for the education and all related costs, combined with the missed opportunity cost of getting beat in the workplace for that duration of time by others who have a several year gap on your lifetime earnings.

In nearly every case, the break even point somewhere between 12 to 20 years.

Are you working in a job right now that requires collegiate certification?

Yeah, I'm a software engineer. Have been for 13 years. You need at least a bachelor's degree. It's a good career and the pay is good for slow lane standards.