What is your life like without a college degree?

[SteveO]

Life is not about school or formal education. It is about experience.

It is also about enjoyment. If you don't like something, don't do it.

This may not sound like a responsible way of looking at things. I believe that we take life way too seriously. This causes a lot of angst and grief. We are all going to have what we perceive as problems and heartache. How we deal with this is much more critical than our formal education.

My story is very different than most. I have talked about it before on the forum.

I grew up poor with virtually no parental guidance. Teachers were an authority figure and I did not respond well to people telling me what to do. I was in many, many fistfights and was booted from school a couple of times. I did not even complete 10th grade. My father signed for me to join the Marines at the age of 17. It was right after the Vietnam war so the military was taking anyone, including criminals. I got kicked out of there also.

By the age of 18, I was working menial construction jobs. I started my own landscape company around the age of 20. I had applied for a job with HP and someone that knew my work ethic encouraged a supervisor there to interview me. They hired me for a night shift job that was stamping plastic pieces for pen assembly. I also did janitorial work when the assembly work was slow.

Since I had a GED, I was able to start taking electronics classes at a community college. I quickly worked my way into a prestigious job in the research and development lab. There were only three non-engineers in a group of about 300 of the brightest and best engineering minds. HP only hired top prospects for R&D. After a while of working there, people just started thinking that I was an engineer. I put prototypes together for testing and just kept gaining more and more responsibilities.

By the time that I quit, I was a supervisor in the failure analysis lab. I had engineers and PHD's working for me. Kinda funny... Even moving up the chain I could not stand for being told what to do. It actually worked well for me but there was a lot of conflict in my career.

I left the good paying job to start investing in apartments. That was 17 years ago and I have never looked back. Working for yourself brings its own kind of stress but stress is something that you put on yourself. You don't need to be subject to it if you choose not to.

My wife went to school to become an attorney. She did not like it. We work together now.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?

Absolutely not. I can walk in anywhere at any time and walk out with a job. Call it salesmanship, call it charisma, call it street smarts, but it seem like many people who attended university and/or got a degree don't have the ability to think on their feet.

- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?

No. Although the entrepreneurship program at MIT seemed like a very good opportunity to network. But being around GlobalWealth so much I've met many of them. He's just kept the super hot ones away from me. Bastard.

- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?

For my first business, yes. I had just climbed up from being homeless so nobody would lend me anything -- and no one believed I could do what I said I would do. It took 27 nos to get my first yes from my backer (which funny enough ended up being my father -- who was the LEAST confident in my ability).

I still needed to convince the bank but with a co-signer it was less of a struggle.

After repaying the loan from the bank in less than 8 months (scheduled for a 5 year repayment plan) the bank still emails me occasionally asking if I need money for my next project. I repaid my father a return with a four-figure percentage and bought him a truck -- and now I have a track record.

I've since learned several dozen ways to start businesses WITHOUT funding and I don't believe I will ever take a loan out again unless I wanted to leverage it for a real estate investment. Who knows, though. Other People's Money is a strong tool to leverage.

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?

I would attend nothing but women's studies and communications classes where the student population is primarily women... you know... for science... and maybe a little chemistry (if y'know whattahmean!)

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

With or without a degree I work harder than 99% of the population. It's not the degree that makes the difference in my beliefs and values. I know plenty of people with and without a degree that don't understand what the words "hard work" mean.

** DISCLAIMER **

What you don't know is that I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on my education. I've been in masterminds, courses, classrooms with Frank Kern, Eben Pagan, Mike Koeings, Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, Denis Waitley, Brian Tracy, Stephen Covey, Demmings, John Carlton, and literally hundreds and hundreds more.

At this point I've probably spent about $500,000 on my education in marketing, psychology, business, sales, speaking, health, nutrition, personal development, leadership, fitness, advertising, and a dozens of other subjects.

I probably have the world record for certifications from all kinds of goofy places.

One thing that stuck with me many years ago was when Jim Rohn said "Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune."

My key distinctions:

• Formal Education and Self Education are two VERY different things.
  
  
• You can become wealthy with formal education, but you CANNOT become wealthy without self education.

** DISCLAIMER 2 **

I have a chip on my shoulder about formal education.

I've always had a problem with authority and I hate when someone tries to teach me something they know nothing about and/or haven't ever done it.

I see lots of people my age who have graduated or went back to get the next degree but haven't learned a damn thing about debt or interest rates.

I also see people with degrees in a subject who clearly partied through the entire thing and/or learned from someone who has never done that. I.E. Marketing, psychology, physicians, trainers, physical therapists, nutrition, and so many more.

My final point before more rambling is that the levels of education vary IMMENSELY. I'd prefer to seek out the best in the world and learn from them. In every subject.

 

[wade1mil]

I was in a job interview a few months ago. I told the interviewer that I created an algorithm after reverse engineering Google's system that allowed affiliate marketers to use AdWords. I told him I coded the entire thing myself using PHP and it made me a decent chunk of money. He then asked me the most important question to determine whether I was worthy of the job or not. "What does PHP stand for?" He was more concerned with whether I knew what PHP stood for than the software I coded using it. I told him I don't remember because, quite frankly, it doesn't matter what it stands for. I can't say that this is the reason I didn't get the job, but I noticed a drastic difference in his demeanor after I answered that question.

In a job interview, my brother was asked if he had a four-year college degree. He said he was in the Marines for nine years. The interviewer said thanks for the service, but he wants to know if he has a college degree to prove that he can stick with a job for four years. Bro, he was in the Marines for nine years. Even in college, nine is greater than four.

I know quite a few people with bachelor degrees that are idiots. I know a handful of people without a degree that are brilliant. People think a degree makes you smart. Smart people without a degree get the shaft, and stupid people with a degree get the benefit.

</rant>

- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?

Extremely, but I have a pretty broad skill set and have a hard time selling myself.

- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?

More opportunities in the job market absolutely. Without a degree, more than half of the jobs that would support my lifestyle are unattainable due to the fact that I don't have a degree. Do I want this? No. But there have been a few times in my life where I needed a job to pay the bills and couldn't get one that paid more than $12 per hour.

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?

I've thought about it, but doing so feels like I'm giving up on my dreams. If I were to go back to 18 years of age, I'd go to college to:

1. Get the degree that, for some reason, people think proves your intelligence
2. Build my network with smart and trustworthy people
3. Experience college

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

No.

- If you dropped out, how far along were you and why?

I have all of the credits for an AA in business management and computer information systems. I never applied to get the degree because I don't care about stuff like that. Having it makes no difference.

- Do you regret not finishing?

I regret wasting my time during those years. Not so much not finishing.

- What did you do after you left school?

Worked and played pro baseball.

- What was your initial reason for attending college?

To play baseball.

 

[Vigilante]

100% agree, that was the advice my parents gave me (and most likely their parents gave them)

It should be flipped 180 degrees. If you KNOW what you want, go to college. (As long as you want a JOB of course!)

I still have a hard time understanding why my parents did not learn this lesson during their life, but then again I have a feeling they give this advice from lack of alternatives (they always want to give the most "secure/comfortable advise)

My parents still want me to go to college. Not kidding.

 

[Vigilante]

Yeah, it is what it is. Unless you brainwash them playing the millionaire fastlane audiobook when they sleep - they will never agree with you.

Prove them wrong by making massive success and teach your kids the rules in todays world, hehe.

It's game over in that regard, as they know that I make more in a year than my hard working parents made combined in several years.

They bought into the lie. Esteem for those who pride themselves on their credential lies within the credential itself, not how it translates.

As I have said before... the people the most impressed by college degrees... are other people with college degrees.

 

[Vigilante]

I believe (most) parents want what is best for their kids, and dispense advice based on their sometimes limited world view.

My Dad has always perceived himself as my largest competitor. My abandoning of their road map (and religion) ultimately was a reflection not on me, but on their perception of themselves. Breaking out invalidates their deeply held beliefs. Doesn't matter if what they believe is wrong or not. That generation bought into the system whole heartedly. Still does.

During the period of time when I traveled to Asia 12 times(?) in a year, my father commented on how it would never amount to anything. Meanwhile, my retainer to do so was 3x-4x his best years earnings. It spawned a million dollar salary offer, which I turned down. That window set up the next window. Which set up the next. And the next.

It's ok that they don't get it. Has no bearing. There are people in this very forum --- in this very thread --- that don't get it. That's OK. Nothing I have done relies on anyone else's approval.

Has no bearing. If anything, when it is family it strengthens resolve. I am not motivated to "beat" them. In fact, I hope that my kids surpass me 1,000x over. If they don't, I haven't done my job. My mother is the quintessential action faker. She calls me up 1x a month with an "idea" for a business. She has never taken action on any of them, mind you. She's like everyone else. She has ideas, but spent a lifetime never taking action on any of them.

I love 'em. They're good people. They just don't get how times have changed, and how the tools that are available to each of us didn't exist 10 years ago, and what academia is teaching from text books printed a year ago is out of date when they assign the homework on it. But.. the professors for the most part don't know either - especially that spent their life and earn their liveleyhood making a living from propagating the system that feeds their families.

 

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[Vigilante]

The default mindset is if you don't know what to do… Go to college.

That is the absolute worst advice you could ever give anybody.

 

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[Deleted20833]

If you dropped out, how far along were you and why? First year, because the teacher told me college won't make me rich
- Do you regret not finishing? No
- What did you do after you left school? Start studying everything I could on business/psychology
- What was your initial reason for attending college? Sheep mentality

 

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[eliquid]

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?

I pulled this from Wikipedia, but the average income for someone with a HS education was $31,539
The average bach. degree salary was $50,944
The average masters was $61,273

I have some college ( about 1.5 years worth ) and I routinely made $60k+ salaried jobs without a degree at all. I topped out at $85k before I got into self-employment.

Not having a degree didn't effect my income and it looks like I did same or better compared to those with a degree ( on average ).
​

- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?

Only those opportunities that didn't matter, like where people judge you based on a paper rather then your skills. I am not a people person, so all those "networking" things college people brag about wouldn't have helped me either. I'd rather not get a job just because I knew someone from my dorm anyways. I'd like to think my success actually came from me and my efforts, not someone I bunked with 20 years ago or their rich dad who gave me a leg up because we knew each other from Political Science class.
​

- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?

Never.
​

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?

I'd go back if the gov. wants to pay for it and will also run my business for me. Otherwise, why waste the time? I can learn what I want from books and hiring others ( cheaper than college ) who are smarter than me with real world use cases in a faster time frame.
​

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

Upfront, yes. I had to "earn my keep" more upfront than some kids off the street with the paper. Otherwise, no.
​

Questions for drop outs:
- If you dropped out, how far along were you and why?

I was 1.5 years in. I couldn't afford it on my own being middle class and not a minority. I paid for everything myself. I could only get a Hope Credit back then and possibly a Pell Grant. Scholarships seemed limited and the University I applied to for the start of my 3rd year rejected me due to too many applicants had already applied for their small program I was wanting to be in ( architecture ). No help with cost of college and limited options for remaining schools left a sour taste in my mouth.
​

- Do you regret not finishing?

At first, yes. I felt I had failed and would never amount to anything. It was years later I realized I was wrong thinking that way.
​

- What did you do after you left school?

Worked in a warehouse. Took any and all jobs I could, but at least I wasn't saddled with college debt from loans.
​

- What was your initial reason for attending college?

I thought I needed it. I was the first in my family to even attend.​

 

[Imgal]

** DISCLAIMER 2 **

I have a chip on my shoulder about formal education.

I've always had a problem with authority and I hate when someone tries to teach me something they know nothing about and/or haven't ever done it.

I see lots of people my age who have graduated or went back to get the next degree but haven't learned a damn thing about debt or interest rates.

I also see people with degrees in a subject who clearly partied through the entire thing and/or learned from someone who has never done that. I.E. Marketing, psychology, physicians, trainers, physical therapists, nutrition, and so many more.

My final point before more rambling is that the levels of education vary IMMENSELY. I'd prefer to seek out the best in the world and learn from them. In every subject.

This so many times over. Not saying it's the right opinion, but totally matches mine. I started one degree, basically spent that year having an education in being away from home, discovering who I really was when there wasn't all the people I'd grown up around me. It also taught me how easy it is to just follow the partying and work just being about having the skills to do something, but the driver is all really about playtime.

Regarding anything I "learnt" related to the degree top... can't remember a thing. All I know was I was spending money on a profession that would turn me into a carbon copy of everyone before and after...so I quit.

For me learning is about understanding how things work then putting them back together so they worked better. I have no idea about anything in the subjects I aced at school. I just knew how to develop a system that would hold it in my brain and piece the right bits together come exam time. That is what real education is to me. Learning the ways to improve lives (both our own and others) should be what education is about... not ticking boxes to say we make up to some social constructed definition of what is good enough.

When it was all about formal education I did well because I saw it as a game to beat, but I learnt nothing from. To judge me on my academic achievements as intelligent is easy, but it is a lie. That part of my life is nothing more than a regurgitation of phrases. My true education has come from jumping in the trenches. Getting it so wrong. Grinding and hustling to learn from every authority I could in every area I want to excel at. Well the certificates don't do look so impressive and at times it's been as scrappy as hell, but this education... it's not only made me successful, but truly discover who I am.

You can can learn about entrepreneurship at University, but you'll only be awarded wantreprenur certification. To get the Doctorate in it you need to get those hands dirty.

 

[SteveO]

failing is likely going to suck much worse.

And I should add that FEAR of failure is a bigger issue in life.

 

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[SteveO]

...failing is likely going to suck much worse.

I don't disagree with all of your points. For me, formal education is a waste of time. Learn some language and math, perhaps other things that you enjoy, but the real learning is out in the world.

Failure is nothing more than a learning process.

 

[Vigilante]

I've seen so many people make the huge mistake of not getting their college degree. Unless you already have a fast lane business, I don't recommend skipping college. Of course, college isn't for everyone, but unless you really do have a better plan, get your degree. You can still work on fast lane ideas.

I don't have a fast lane business yet, but for slow lane standards, I'm doing awesome and way better than 100% of the people I know that didn't get a degree. They're always struggling, with roughly the same salary they had 10 years ago. My salary, on the other hand, has increased 140% since I got my very first full time job after graduating 11 years ago, and that starting salary back then was very good.

And one should point out too, that it isn't the degree itself that gets you places. There are many people with degrees that just get by. They get an OK job but lack the intelligence and/or ambition to take it further, so they remain stuck doing "OK" for the rest of their lives.

You can get an education and work on your ultimate goal at the same time.

Have you ever run the calculation on your break even point? Typically it's around a dozen years. By breakeven point I am talking about people that went straight into the workforce, have four years of earnings ahead of you, and spent zero on a college education.

On average, most college graduate without specified certification degrees are working in careers that don't require a degree. As a result, even if they start with a higher base salary (which is debatable) they have a four year earnings gap with annual increases to close, before accounting for four or five years of school, expenses, textbooks, and room and board.

Sometimes things aren't always what they seem. You might not realize how much that beer pong actually cost you.


If you spend $160,000 on your degree, while your "non-educated" peer went straight into the workforce making $40,000 a year, you have a $320,000 deficit to make up before you reach a breaking even point. Assumes you graduate in four years, which most don't. Chances are the earnings gap is higher.

Most never do. You have to make the difference up only between your salary and the gap to your "uneducated peer" salary. Even if the earnings gap is $10,000 a year, it's going to take you 32 years to close the gap.

And, if you haven't figured it out yet… The $1 million earnings gap promoted by academia itself is bullshit with no statistics to back it up.

 

[eekern]

I have a bachelor degree in "leadership". We all know in 2015 that you can learn leadership from theory, all the "leader jobs" I applied too told me I lack experience. hehe

Now I work for myself and would sell my diploma for 100$ any day (cost me over $50K in debt)

 

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[eekern]

I agree with everything you have said a 100% and want to add a little something here:

Above and beyond the break even point, you will also have to consider the fact that the person who is "non-educated" probably has more experience than your "educated" peer. I mean, 4 years at a full time job beats 4 years in college anyday when it comes to life experience. Imagine 2 friends starting their lives when they are both 24, 1 has 4 years of college education and other has 4 years of full time job with a good track record. Is the friend with college education gonna run so fast now that the experience, track record, credit history of other friend is all not going to measure up?

Good question, and I don`t have the answer. But I do know that:

1. The school guy will have a mindset of: "failing is bad" / "only one right answer"
2. The work guy will have the mindset that: "if I want something I have to work for it" / "there is no right answer, I have to find my approach"

I would put my money on the second mindset...

 

[Ubermensch]

So why the thread? It seems there are no shortage of stories of people who went the 'conventional' route by attending college who then received a coveted high paying job in their desired industry.

No shortage, huh? Let's quantify that sentence.

What, exactly, do you mean?

There is no shortage of people with college degrees serving people coffee. In cafes across America, pitifully overqualified millennials work as baristas and other entry-level or near entry-level positions.

There is no shortage of people who have won the lottery. That is certainly not an argument in favor of playing the lottery, and it doesn't make not playing the lottery look foolish.

But what about all the folks that didn't go to college or never finished? Where are they now? I would like this thread to serve as a resource that answers these questions by giving readers a perspective of what life is really like without a college degree. This can be a place to share the successes and struggles, the funny and ridiculous stories of what your life without a degree has been like.

Break a population up into categories, and sub-categories will likely apply.

In other words, not all college drop outs - or people who never go to college - are created equal. The college dropout who drops out to pursue a career in sales, or start his own enterprise, far exceeds the guy who sucks on government assistance, or just gets by with menial jobs, pursuing and possessing no higher aspirations.

So, if you are living without a college degree feel free to share stories or answer some of the provided questions below to help people get perspective.

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?

People familiar with MJ's writing should know about the concept of exponential growth versus linear growth of income.

The college graduate who accepts the "ideal" job straight out of college embraces the short-term gratification of linear growth. The line start at a high point - at least it seems that way in the moment - and gradually increases every year, with every annual salary and bonus increase.

Before I get to my point on exponential income and how it relates to your question, allow me an aside:

Here is a quote from the hardback copy of the book:

Quote from Bold

Page 7: Understanding the power of exponentials is easy to do. We hominids evolved in a world that was local and linear. Back then, life was local because everything in our forebears' lives was usually within a day's walk. If something happened on the other side of the planet we knew nothing about it. Life was also linear, meaning nothing changed over centuries or even millennia. In stark contrast, today we live in a world that is global and exponential. The problem is that our brains - and thus our perceptual capabilities - were never designed to process at either this scale or this speed. Our linear mind literally cannot grok exponential progression.

I dropped out of college at 16 and got into sales in my late teens. I never found the right opportunity, and hopped around from position to position for years. The recession didn't help, either.

In my early twenties, I barely eclipsed my peers in income.

At 26, bang. Exponential income hits my life. Almost $200,000 in a week, and that wasn't the only one. For me, making that amount of money in that amount of time proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that I had made the right decision years ago.

INTERVIEW WITH THE AUTHOR

- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?

Define opportunity.

Opportunity exists in the real world, and waits for the hungry, curious and perhaps the ingenious to find it. You and me both - in this moment - have the choice and opportunity to take years of biology and chemistry classes, and then study medicine. We have the "opportunity" to become a doctor.

The opportunities you grasp in life depend on how far you reach. If someone smacks your hands away, do you "fight, fight, FIGHT for it"?

Most people believe the myth that opportunity knocks which implies that one can just sit around and do nothing until opportunity just shows up. This is why people just go to college, because they just settle for what gets set right in front of them. This is why people marry the wrong person, because they just settle for what gets set right in front of them.

A world full of billions of people now connects with instant communication. Billions of people with billions of needs.

- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?

LOL.

I am currently negotiating a few transactions that will make me seven figures, and I'm doing it with companies on the Inc 5000, the fastest growing companies in the country.

I got myself in this position the old-school way, by relentlessly, diligently and piously investing tens of thousands of hours of my life to this game. I never - not once - had a problem getting loans, or investors.

Because I never got one. Every dollar I have ever used to grow myself and my businesses came from the hustle. The hustle fuels the hustle. If the hustle is worth fueling, it will fuel itself.

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?

Fuxx no.

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

Man, I hope so. I hope I'm working harder than the next guy. I hope the other guy is sleeping while I'm working.

I hope the other guy is playing with his kids, while I'm working.

I hope the other guy is slacking off, relying on his pedigree, resting on his laurels, feeling pretentious because his Alma mater is the University of Ubermensch-Doesn't-Give-A-F*ck.

I hope the other guy spends his time watching football all day Saturday, and all day Sunday.

I hope that the other guy spends time at work events at night, and jokes about sports and TV shows by the water cooler.

I hope that the other guy wastes his time commuting to and from work.

I hope that the other guy thinks that he will learn how to sell, how to close, how to win, how to get the customer to sign on the line which is dotted, how to increase revenue, how to produce revenue, and how to enhance profit... I hope that the other guy thinks he will get all of that in a book or a classroom.

Thinking that going to business school makes you hustler is like playing the Street Fighter and then thinking you're a real life Ninja.

I like this thread. I'll try to get to the other questions later.

To answer the OP's question directly... how is my life without a college degree?

I don't have a Facebook page. I don't have a social media page with friends on it. I fool around with Instagram from time to time, and I really don't know any of my followers.

I don't have many friends, considering that friends are people that you know, like and trust. I simply don't have time to waste with most people. Most people aren't on my level. Most people aren't trying to get rich. Most people just want to live and die in the same state that they were born.

 

[loop101]

From my years of working for other people in the IT field, I would say that if you are going to work for someone else, you should get a degree. 99% of the IT jobs "require" a degree, and if you don't have one and still manage to get hired, they will offer you 30%-50% less than the normal rate. The degree may not mean anything to you, but it means everything to the person hiring you.

If the person hiring you has a degree, and they offer you 100% of the going rate, they are admitting that they were a dumb a$$ for getting a degree. Which they will never do.

 

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[Option]

- If you dropped out, how far along were you and why?

Three months in, Economics.. Because the books I found online where more interesting then my curriculum.

During one of my classes I ran an opportunity cost analysis.. (The class was about exactly that)

Spend 4+ years (equivalent of 10.000 working hours) and $40.000 for a diploma supposedly guaranteeing me a ~$50.000/y entry level job at a bank.
or
(Worst Case Scenario)
F*ck up 4 ventures straight, blowing $10.000 at each single on of them... And get TONS of experience.

Or the other equation...

Make $4.000 a month at an entry level job, working 160 hours, doing something I probably hated
or
Sell 10 x $400 product a month...

Ok it might not be that simple but it was totally OBVIOUS to me.

I quit the next day. (And it is actually that simple..)

- Do you regret not finishing?

No. For me, I didn't like the curriculum at all.
While at the same time all the good GOLD stuff was available for FREE online
I could literally just sit in my house and keep studying FOREVER. So why go in debt for something that is FREE?

- What did you do after you left school?

Lets be honest. I was to optimistic. I was arrogant. The first I did was totally F*ck up.. Ofcourse

Procrastinate. Start a business. F*ck up the business. Go on a meditation retreat. Travel. Read. Got a sales job. F*ck up the sales job. Start a business. ...
Growing wiser

- What was your initial reason for attending college?

I guess it was due to family pressure. I really felt like I had to go to college. Especially my grandfather really wanted it.
I am very glad that I had the strength to tell him I dropped out and was going to start my own business.
That it was my burning desire to do so. This was a bold statement, one I will never regret.
It was hard for him but he accepted it, he just wanted an easy life for me.
He died three months later. I told him the TRUTH just in time..

The future implications of not foregoing college education I do not know yet.
I didn't go out to try and get a job. Just did sales. That is enough to keep me afloat.
By learning copywriting I am pretty sure that my job applications would blow my competition out of the park.
But I prefer working on my own stuff fulltime.

What I am sure of is that I am debt free, savings in the bank.
That I entirely quit drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes. In college I might have continued doing that. It was hard for me to quit.
That I am very happy. Good habits in place, I wake up in LOVE with working on MY stuff. I LOVE learning more about business.

Blazing my own path, even if it means being broke, gives me a confidence and a sense of freedom that makes me feel totally alive.

I guess in the end you should just be honest with yourself. Do what fits you. Do what life asks you to do.
Not in a passionate, fluffy kind of way, but in following your truth, and then working like hell.
Because if you feel like you are in control, your happiness will skyrocket, you won't need TV, party's, socializing, cigarettes, sleep, rewards...
You can have 'm.. But the mere act of controlling your destiny will give you greater pleasure then anything else.

So F*ck regret... You want a degree, go get one... You want to drop out, drop out... Be bold.

You have food on the table... You have a shower... You have a bed (or couch)... You have fresh air...

Seriously life in the first world is like a continuum of complete bliss. Just recognize it and indulge in it.
Working like hell on YOUR business, Eating healthy foods, Working out like crazy, Reading amazing books, Having a warm shower, Watching the sun come up at 6am in the morning with your loved one... How good can it get?

tl;dr My life after college is freaking great.

 

[MattR82]

My friends are so happy they spent 50k on HR degrees as an 18 yr old haha. Really helps them with their jobs in sales today... I bailed out of an accounting degree and traineeship after a year. I took some good experiences out of it, sure, but I always saw there was something extremely weird about accountants working 70 hour weeks for 60k compiling tax returns for banana farmers making hundreds of thousands a year.

 

[Blue1214]

If you know how to teach yourself skills and are motivated, you don't need college.

If you are the type to sit and wait to be taught, you will definitely need college to get by in life.

If you know your stuff in any given field and can show results, no one cares if you went to college.

---Obviously except for those select fields where it is absolutely mandatory, like doctor or lawyer.

 

[The Grind]

I get to watch people years younger than me with nice 60k a year jobs....

Partying after work..

Buying nice cars, Buying nice houses..

Being able to buy food..

Being able to afford to go out on a date..

Not living in the hood..

Being happy that theyre "making it"

While I didn't go to college...and make 9/hour.

It's fun.

 

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[Vigilante]

I sit on the sidelines and watch people with college degrees be impressed by other people with college degrees.

Meanwhile, back in reality :

40% +/- of high school graduates never go to any college depending on whose numbers you believe. The real number is probably closer to half.

Of the few less than 1 out of 2 people that attend college, half of them never graduate.

I'm no math major, but that tells me that roughly 1/4 people ever gain a college degree. 75% of people in the United States never get a degree.

Of the 1 out of 4 high school graduates that gain a college degree, 50% of those are employed in in jobs that require no college degree.

So... perception doesn't equal reality.

When you factor the required professions (doctors, lawyers, teachers, and others) in which the credential is mandated... the truth is almost nobody outside of certified, required professions are degreed personnel. The certifications take up most of the 50%-60% of that went to school, the 50% of those that graduated, and the half of that 25% of the population of graduates that are actually working in the area for which they went to school.

Nearly 90 out of every 100 people in the United States have no college degree. They're air traffic controllers, bankers, wall street traders, investors, entrepreneurs... you name it. All neighborhoods, all income groups, and every imaginable cross sector of the economy and demographic is represented. The "uneducated masses" are by far the majority in the United States... by a factor of almost 9-1. There's a better chance that the guy next to you in the Ferrari doesn't have a degree than does. Most of the people with college vocational training end up being employees for someone else.

I forgot your question, but I think it was :

"Why would anyone get a college degree if you didn't need the certification for a specific, licensed profession?"

 

[Vigilante]

I have a bachelor degree in "leadership". We all know in 2015 that you can learn leadership from theory, all the "leader jobs" I applied too told me I lack experience. hehe

Now I work for myself and would sell my diploma for 100$ any day (cost me over $50K in debt)

You have to add to what it cost you all of your expenses, and what you missed in earnings while you were sitting in class.

 

[James Thornton]

In the graphic design world, no one gives a shit about a degree, only your portfolio and skill set. Probably different in the world of dentistry.

The obvious trend is that self-educated designers are more skilled, which makes sense. It's an industry where the tools change faster than a school curriculum could keep up with, but the internet keeps up just fine.

There's also the self-starter factor. People that don't need their hand held are going to be better at figuring things out.

 

[sparklyshadows]

I just turned 21 recently and I decided that skipping college was the right decision for me straight out of High School. While I don't have enough time behind my actions to really properly analyze whether or not the choice was a good one objectively, I can say that so far I'm super glad that I decided to forgo college.

- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree? I didn't work much in the corporate environment- mainly just for small businesses, so by small-business standards I managed to find decent pay jobs without a degree. Most places don't check your credentials so I'll admit to saying I was a student when in actuality I was not.

If it so happened that I had to find a job in the future, I would probably say I had a degree even though I don't- some might find it unethical, but at the end of the day it's about whether or not I have the skills to do the job and whether or not I can provide the promised value to the company. If I can provide the same level of competency if not better, as someone with a piece of paper to their name, then I see no reason to let an inaccurate measuring standard of skill stand in my way.

Statistically, most jobs are filled through referrals anyway where credentials more often than not are not checked.

- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree? No, I feel like going to college would have stunted my growth and reduced the amount of opportunity available to me. As an entrepreneur, I am constantly researching new ideas and educating myself which allows for a lot of fruitful opportunities to present themselves to me. Opportunities that not only allow for further learning and growth, but have the potential to be way more lucrative than any opportunity a degree could you.

- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks? I'm not qualified to answer this yet as none of my business ventures have required loans, but I feel as if in this matter, success would talk for itself. If I'm able to show that my business venture is successful on a small-scale with potential for growth if I get the funding, then I think any college-degree obstacles that pop up should be easy to navigate through.

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why? No, I would never go to college. Unless you want to become a doctor, there is literally nothing you can't learn on your own. All college does is teach you conformity. It prepares you for the "real world" where your goal is to win the rat race. Real learning does not take place in schools. Half of what is taught is wrong, the other half is drivel. If anything, school beats out the passion for learning by transforming learning into a means to an end rather than as an essential part of having a healthy and well-rounded brain. The focus in schools is always on how you have to do this, or do that, or listen to so and so's advice so you can get that great job in the future or make x amount of money and be able to buy that house on the corner, when the real focus should be on learning purely for the sake of knowledge so you can become a better person and make better contributions to society and perhaps even innovate (a word that is beaten out in the currently existing schooling system).

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree? No, on the contrary I feel like I have to work less and if anything I struggle to motivate myself to develop a better work ethic. I moved out of my parent's house almost a year ago now and I live in one of the most expensive cities (Live near SF, my city currently has higher rent than a lot of parts of SF), yet I've managed to survive on my own and live a pretty lavish life for my age group while putting in a quarter of the effort a fellow slowlaner would have to put in to maintain the same standard of living slaving away at a full-time job.

My boyfriend dropped out of college and lots of times I've heard him skim over the dropping out part in conversations with old acquaintances and such, however I honestly think that it's something to be proud of. I find great joy in proudly announcing that I never went to college to people and for added amusement, there is nothing better than hearing the room go quiet and see people struggle to say something while desperately trying to control the horror in their eyes =D

To forge a path for yourself that is different from that of the herd's, takes a lot of mental courage- there is the constant nagging feeling in the back of your mind that you made a mistake and that everyone's predictions about your future are going to come true- but to push past all those society inflicted mental barriers and strive towards the ever blossoming flower of success, is a huge success in itself and one that we should give ourselves credit for

 

[OscarDeuce]

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree? Only at first, but in those depressed economic times (early 1970s) lots of people with degrees were flipping burgers. So overall, no. I was usually in the top income range for my age group.
- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree? That depends. If you're talking about a specialized professional degree (MD or JD) probably. For anything else (including engineering, computer science, etc,), no.
- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks? Yea, but not because of anything to do with education.
- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why? I did, and it was a waste of time and money.
- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree? No.

Questions for drop outs:
- If you dropped out, how far along were you and why? Triple threat here! High School - 11th grade, Engineering School - final semester, Law School - after the first year (yep, there's a story there but that's probably another thread)
- Do you regret not finishing? High School - No, Engineering School - No, Law School - Might go back some day.
- What did you do after you left school? High School - worked as a lineman for a utility company, learned to fly, worked as a contract pilot for a Government contractor, took some other...ahem..."freelance" flying jobs (pretty sure the statute of limitations was up many years ago), started a couple of businesses, eventually got a corporate job. Engineering School - was already the head of the engineering department for a fortune 1000 company, became CEO of a mid-size software company. Law School - started a consulting company and a TV production company and some other odds and ends.
- What was your initial reason for attending college? I thought it would advance my career but my career advanced to the point that while I was hitting the books for a final in one of my electrical engineering courses, my wife said "You know, when you get your degree, you will barely be qualified for an entry level position working for...you!"

Cheers,
O-2

 

[OscarDeuce]

uccessful tech founders tend to have MS degrees. A lot of the stuff I see about business owners is skewed by slowlane businesses and matches the genpop, but Tom Stanley's Millionaire Mind about decamillionaires also found higher than average education levels across all industries. Is the education the cause, or is it just the type of person that tends to get more education tends to also be more disciplined and go after business harder? Don't know...

May be true if you're talking strictly about high tech, but I see little real world evidence to back it up. I know a fairly high proportion of multi-millionaires and a billionaire or two (including names that get dropped here occasionally) pretty well, as in hang out and get drunk together well. My survey doesn't come up with may college degrees. I'd also argue that just because a business isn't high tech, it isn't necessarily "slow lane," particularly if it makes one a "decamillionaire." Some of my friends made their money selling shoes, painting lines down the middle of highways, just plain hustling, or, wait for it...writing a specialized computer program without a degree (is that even legal?). Some never finished grade school, one made it after serving a 10 year prison sentence. The point is, there are an infinite number of ways to become successful in whatever way you want to define it. What matters most is the willingness to take action and accept risk, and I'm not convinced either of those attributes come from a college degree.

Cheers,
O-2

 

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[Tyler Ellison]

I think this is a great thread and it's great to compare experiences.

Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?

Not in my case because I taught myself SEO & marketing on the internet and was never hard up because I landed a major client early and was well paid to work from home. Probably too well paid, it really killed my drive to have that security and I became complacent. I always paid bills on time and had enough fun, but it slowed my overall business progress in some ways to be 'too well paid' early on.

Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?

Not in my field of interest, professionally. Halfway through college I concluded I wasn't really there to prepare for a career and I was there to learn what I actually wanted to know, hence my major field of study: Portuguese.

If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?

Yes, but not because of college, it was lack of evidence of dependable income, and lack of a 'business plan'. I had enough limit on credit cards to pay for anything I ever needed to work with since my kind of work is low-cost to entry.

If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?

I'm thinking about it, because I actually have less than a full semester of classes left to finish, and I enjoy my field of study. It would be for personal growth and fun, not for business or a career, and I don't like leaving things unfinished.

Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?

NOPE! Hard work is everywhere, my father taught me a good work ethic. I would have worked hard wherever I landed.

If you dropped out, how far along were you and why?

I only had one semester left, but I fell in love and got married. That became my primary drive to do business on my own. I wanted to be able to provide a decent life for my wife and kids. The college and degree wasn't going to really help me get there, so it felt like putting life on hold at that point. I wanted to live, not wait to live.

Do you regret not finishing?

No, because one more semester of college to put off my life wouldn't have been worth it. I'm planning on finishing remotely anyway and even worked it out with the university. Just waiting for the right moment now.

What did you do after you left school?

Moved to South America, got married, and started taking on SEO clients since I'd done such awesome work doing SEO for a local company. I got more serious into things like copywriting, and dabbled in a lot of personal projects. I hit a point after several years that I wanted to move onto other things so I took on virtual assistant work for low pay just to work with the kinds of companies I wanted to own and the people I wanted to know. It was a great experience and help propel me to the next level. Now I do paid advertising across many different networks as an affiliate and in partnership with some ad agencies, all performance pay.

What was your initial reason for attending college?

Ha, I thought I wanted to be a teacher at the time. My family calls it the 'poverty-seeking gene' since most of my family are teachers. I saw that really wasn't what I wanted and then looked into law, but then I realized I didn't care if college got me into a career and just started studying what I wanted to.

 

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[eliquid]

I've applied for jobs a few time in the past five years. This may just be my perception because I'm always in a bad mood when I'm looking for jobs, but I'd guess 75% of the jobs that pay more than $40k a year (guaranteed) say a bachelor's degree is required. It makes it pretty tough to afford food when you don't have a degree or friends because you've worked at home the past five years

This is from Georgetown, so they may have just made these stats up, but here is what they say (no $40k minimum):
By educational attainment: 35 percent of the job openings will require at least a bachelor's degree, 30 percent of the job openings will require some college or an associate's degree and 36 percent of the job openings will not require education beyond high school.

I sit on the sidelines and watch people with college degrees be impressed by other people with college degrees.

Meanwhile, back in reality :

40% +/- of high school graduates never go to any college depending on whose numbers you believe. The real number is probably closer to half.

Of the few less than 1 out of 2 people that attend college, half of them never graduate.

I'm no math major, but that tells me that roughly 1/4 people ever gain a college degree. 75% of people in the United States never get a degree.

Of the 1 out of 4 high school graduates that gain a college degree, 50% of those are employed in in jobs that require no college degree.

So... perception doesn't equal reality.

When you factor the required professions (doctors, lawyers, teachers, and others) in which the credential is mandated... the truth is almost nobody outside of certified, required professions are degreed personnel. The certifications take up most of the 50%-60% of that went to school, the 50% of those that graduated, and the half of that 25% of the population of graduates that are actually working in the area for which they went to school.

Nearly 90 out of every 100 people in the United States have no college degree. They're air traffic controllers, bankers, wall street traders, investors, entrepreneurs... you name it. All neighborhoods, all income groups, and every imaginable cross sector of the economy and demographic is represented. The "uneducated masses" are by far the majority in the United States... by a factor of almost 9-1. There's a better chance that the guy next to you in the Ferrari doesn't have a degree than does. Most of the people with college vocational training end up being employees for someone else.

I forgot your question, but I think it was :

"Why would anyone get a college degree if you didn't need the certification for a specific, licensed profession?"

Im really big into this topic bc I have no degree and had to earn my keep against others.

Here is the thing though, I've split tested my resume and linkedin for job offers before and even used a fake person's resume and linkedin to test if a resume with a degree would get me more interviews.

Having college listed in the resume or linkedin got me more interviews. However, once I got the interview up to the hiring process, not 1 single person asked me to prove it or asked me about it past what was just listed on the resume to get me an interview.

I didn't take those positions years ago, but out of all the positions I did take in the past.. not a single one of them checked if I did have a degree.

If I was someone having to get a job and worried about this topic, I'd enroll in a local community college for 1 credit ( you will prob spend no more than $300 doing this ) just so you can put it on the resume legally that you are in college at least AND pursuing a bach/masters. If they run a check, it will show that you are indeed enrolled.

 

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[Impressive M]

I didn't read through the entire thread because i want to post my personal experience without getting biased by reading what every one is saying. I am 28 years old and have never stepped a foot in college for any education.

When i was finishing high school, i had a full time job working as a telemarketer at a call center and i was at the top of the world having started making a fixed salary. Financially, i think i needed the job but in my country you can survive without making money, so i could have chose to just study but anyhow i didn't finish high school and continued to work at my job.

Fast forward 10 years and i am 28 years old and own a call center with a pretty good life and never regret not having a degree, infact i sometimes wonder what a waste of time would that have been if i had started my journey in college education.

here are the questions you asked (Answered)

Questions for anyone:
- Did you find it difficult to find high paying work without a degree?
Never tried, i have only had couple of jobs at call centers and they never care of degree, if you can speak good English and you can some what sell, you are in.

- Do you feel you would have had more opportunities if you had a college degree?
I do not think so, the only opportunities i feel i am missing out is by not having friends i would make at college.

- If you are a business owner, did you have any trouble receiving loans from investors or banks?
Yes and No... when i was 21 and i was working with a banker to get a business loan for $200,000 i was asked straight to my face, how do you think you can repay us back when all you have is couple of years of running a business with no education and lack of management with such education (i only had 5-6 employees back then)

- If you could, would you go back to school, if so, why?
Yes, i want to go to a MBA college for professionals and its primarily because i want to have some fun while i learn something. I know by heart my time would be better spent at work and growing my businesses but i think going through theory classes and getting to see the other side of learning won't hurt. Plus, i expect to network with alot of good people and eventually hire the top kids in my class.

- Do you feel you have had to work harder because you do not possess a degree?
No, absolutely Not.

Questions for drop outs:
- If you dropped out, how far along were you and why?
Never even completed high school... College and schooling looked to boring compared to real money i was making at job

- Do you regret not finishing?
Not at all.

- What did you do after you left school?
Starting working from home selling mortgage leads to mortgage brokers, generated by cold calling (finger dialing, no dialers back then)

- What was your initial reason for attending college?
Never even started.

 

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