Ebola in the USA... Anyone Concerned?

[Iwokeup]

Yes. Which means that if someone with Ebola sneezes on you, you're in danger of being infected. Or if some fevered Ebola patient is sweating in an emergency-room chair, and you happen to sit in that chair next, you're in danger of being infected. Or some Ebola patient wipes their nose with their hand, and uses the doorknob right before you, you're in danger of being infected. I'm pretty sure they don't have to barf in your face in order for you to be in danger.

Time will tell. And of course, I'm a Gen-Xer, and thus, more likely to be a cynical bastard at heart, so take that for what it's worth.

Not true at all.

 

[throttleforward]

Yes, however we need to be diligent about containing the outbreak in other countries, if for no other reason than the virus has shown some potential for aerosolization. We don't want a million-plus hosts with the opportunity to give the virus a chance to mutate into a more transmissible form in humans. We already have some circumstantial evidence that certain strains are transmitted via aerosol in primates.

"There is considerable misunderstanding concerning the potential for aerosol transmission of filoviruses. The data on formal aerosol experiments leave no doubt that Ebola and Marburg viruses are stable and infectious in small-particle aerosols, and experience of transmission between experimental animals in the laboratory supports this [49, 56–63]. Indeed, during the 1989–1990 epizootic of the Reston subtype of Ebola, there was circumstantial evidence of airborne spread of the virus, and supporting observations included suggestive epidemiology in patterns of spread within rooms and between rooms in the quarantine facility, high concentrations of virus in nasal and oropharyngeal secretions, and ultrastructural visualization of abundant virus particles in alveoli [17, 50]. However, this is far from saying that Ebola viruses are transmitted in the clinical setting by small-particle aerosols generated from an index patient [64]. Indeed patients without any direct exposure to a known EHF case were carefully sought but uncommonly found [65]. The conclusion is that if this mode of spread occurred, it was very minor.
What then were the major routes of transmission? Nonhuman primate studies [66] found conjunctival and oral routes of infection to be possible. It seems likely that the increased risk from late-stage patients [54] reflects increased virus excretion as the disease progresses, similar to that seen in monkey models [50]. Thus, mucous-membrane exposure, pharyngeal contamination during swallowing, inoculation via small skin breaks, or even infection from swallowed infectious material may all contribute to virus transmission.
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/ix.long

 

[Unknown]

This is all just a build up for some large Pharma company to release their Ebola vaccine. I give it two weeks max before you can line up and protect yourself from Ebola for just $5,000!

 

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[AllenCrawley]

A friend of mine that is a remote site medic and spends a lot of time in Africa shared this site with me to stay up to date:

http://www.internationalsos.com/ebola

 

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[CashFlowDepot]

It is amazing to me that the US has not stopped travelers from the infected region. Where I live, if any of the last TEN stamps on your passport where from West Africa, you cannot enter the country.

I would be very concerned if I lived in the USA or travelled to the USA or any country which has not put restrictions on travel from West Africa.

I would not consider it "systems in place" when a patient walks in to a hospital, tells the doctor they are sick and have been in West Africa, then the doctor sends them home.

Don't trust anything you hear on TV or from theUS goverment or read in the newspapers.

If more cases are reported, there will be panic and riots everywhere. What's your plan if/when that happens?

 

[Gale4rc]

 

[splok]

So hope this clears up all the fear and PANIC.

What could possibly go wrong!?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Self explanatory: https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/517106666915909633View attachment 8369 So hope this clears up all the fear and PANIC.
So I will just leave this here (straight from the USA government).

And F*ck you all who are spreading miss information

If you plan on being here longer than 12 minutes you might want to watch your mouth.

 

[InMotion]

"In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for the Department of Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year."

"Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...ny-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals

Be concerned about going to a U.S. hospital for the time being.

 

[smarty]

my favorite meme kid hits again

 

[DeletedUser394]

Honest question: What is the benefit of following every minute detail of this, or anything else that an individual has no control over?

If one is concerned, they can take relevant precautions like frequent hand washing/sanitizing, staying out of large crowds, not traveling to hotspots, etc?

I'm seeing otherwise rational individuals react out of an irrational fear over something they have absolutely no control over. Just as I saw during the past 3 or 4 pandemic scares that didn't amount to much.

It took many months for it to hit 8,000 infections in 3 countries with some of the worst health care infrastructure on planet earth. Even now, it's only doubling at a rate of 4 weeks or so.

Counter that with any western, top tier health system (for all it's problems, US healthcare is among the best in the world, no doubt about it).

I fully expect there to be pockets of ebola in the USA, and many other western countries. It happens. In past outbreaks of various diseases the response has been met appropriately. Some mistakes are always going to be made, but there really is no comparison between the infrastructure of Guinea and that of the USA.

Nigeria handled their ebola cases appropriately and in a timely manner. No disrespect to Nigeria, but facilities in the west are heads and shoulders above their own. If Nigeria can handle it, America can as well.

 

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[loop101]

Honest question: What is the benefit of following every minute detail of this, or anything else that an individual has no control over?

Since this disease is spread by individual people, it makes sense that individual people can control how it is spread. This does not mean that they will, but given recent historical precedent, it would seem to be in everyone's best interest.

For example.

Less than 100 years ago a pandemic infected 500 million people, and killed 50+ million. More died than in the "Great War" that was just wrapping up. 20% of the world's population was infected, and 10% of the infected died. That was before the era of border-less nations, mass immigration, and mass transit.

Most people do not want to die, and there is a definite chance many people could die if there was an Ebola pandemic. That's why people are paying attention. No one knows yet what the chance is, but the present growth rate is a cause for alarm. I remember when AIDS was called "GRID", this mysterious disease that mostly killed gay men. Today, about 34 million people have AIDS.

The one thing people are certain of, is that governments are doing a horrible job of handling the situation. They want to assure people there is no reason to panic, to the point they are willing to lie. When their lies are exposed, people assume that they should panic.

Human's have been worrying about the future since the advent of seasonal weather. Ebola is a threat, and we see it. We will watch it until we do not consider it an imminent threat. If Ebola has a sigmoidal growth rate, like AIDS did, then when the growth rate slows, they will probably be able to predict when the infection rate will peak. It took AIDS about 10 years for the infection rate to stabilize.

 

[Writer]

there is simply one thing that should never be allowed to be patented: viruses destructive to humanity. and yet there it is

why not? nuclear weapons are patentable, and they are potentially more destructive than any virus.
The problem is that you see the virus, while the patent sees and protects the science behind the virus. Just to discover a virus there is a LOT of research that is needed, probably more than we can imagine. To discover how the virus works, there is even more science. To discover how to beat the crap out of it with a vaccine, there is an incredible amount of science to do. Research is not a charity, a lot of investment is necessary, and a ROI is necessary. Whoever thinks the opposite is thinking about the North Korean system, which didn't really produce that many vaccines.
No, it's not nice, I would love free vaccines and free research. But the world ain't utopia.
And patents exist to protect science.

 

[biophase]

I'm not a doom and gloom type of person but...

"A 26-year-old nurse identified as the second Texas hospital worker to test positive for Ebola had traveled on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas the evening before she noted the first symptoms of the disease, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday."

"Public Health workers will begin interviewing the 132 passengers on Flight 1143 immediately."

This is how it starts to literally go viral, the one person who has it and travels by plane. Now it goes from one city to who knows how many. I just don't see how this can be stopped from spreading without a vaccine. The number of people that need to be interviewed is going to increase exponentially and how many will voluntarily quarantine themselves for 21 days and not lie about going to a store or to a park.

Sad thing is that this should have probably started with all health workers living in quarantine will treating the patient, but how many would that be and who would have done that?

 

[ChickenHawk]

IMO, as Americans, we've become complacent. Some would say arrogant. There's a sense of "it could never happen here." But let's look at this...

Right now in Dallas, there's a desperate call out for nurses. About 70 (let that number sink in...) health care workers cared for Duncan. Of those, two have already gotten Ebola. Let's take the other 68. Are they still working? If so, who are they potentially infecting? If not, who's taking their place? Basically, ONE dude who lied to obtain "free" medical care has caused mass chaos in just one major U.S. city. Now, that city is short of nurses. The hospital that treated him is basically closed to non-Ebola cases. Dallas has been forced to contact and monitor hundreds of people. Soon, they'll be contacting and monitoring hundreds more, including those who flew with the second infected nurse a couple days ago.

Now, imagine if "only" ten Duncans get through. Or imagine if someone infected by Duncan or a nurse is walking around sick right now, thinking they just have the flu. Ebola spreads exponentially. One person infects two people and so on.

I don't think it's fear-mongering to suggest you stock some food and supplies just in case.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I have never been concerned with any other virus threats of the past but this one certainly gives me pause.

And that's because the government's narrative of "Oh, it only spreads through bodily fluids" is clearly fiction. I highly doubt the two nurses who were caring for Duncan where getting naked with him or rolling around in his sweat drenched linens. And now we can add financial chaos to the mix.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I can't tell if I am thinking rationally or not right now.

You are in a hot zone so I would err on the side of caution. Assume the worse, prepare for the worse. It would be better in the end to look back and say you overreacted, than to live in regret of underreaction.

I would recommend prudent preparation.

As a physician, what, in your opinion, would that be? A personal quarantine?

 

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[Bananas]

Been texting my stepmom, who I trust almost more than any other person. Both her and my dad are over the age of 60 and live in Texas as well - and she doesn't seem to find my thoughts irrational either. On one hand, it's great to be a rational person. On the other hand, it's frightening to be told, yes your fears are rational, it is a good idea to lay in extra supplies, etc.

I've advised my husband to come home as soon as possible and warned him we are going to the store for supplies. This is the beginning. When normal people start to get worried and alter their daily routines based on that worry.

 

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[Jakeeck]

Isn't it pretty likely that these nurses went home and made out/had sex with their husbands/boyfriends or whoever or shared a drink with someone in between the periods where they thought all was good until the time they were tested positive??

Now I can't stop thinking about this stuff.

Or sneezed and pet the cat without washing their hands, etc.. there are like a million ways they could have spread it, no?

 

[GuestUser140]

My family have a cabin close to Norrbotten so yup, would move up there. Get all my stock with me and hope that some vaccine will get to us.

I will move to the Lofoten in Norway, I know the place. Plenty of fish to eat, only vegetables/vitamins and carbs would be an issue.

Well, let's hope it doesn't go that far.

Edit: obligatory picture.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Well, this gets better and better...The CDC TOLD the Nurse to Get on That Plane.
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/heal...las-hospital-worker-diagnosed-ebola/17290677/

From the Story
The second Dallas nurse diagnosed with Ebola shouldn't have traveled on a commercial flight due to her exposure to the virus prior to her diagnosis, said Tom Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But the CDC has now confirmed that it gave Amber Vinson permission to make a trip to Cleveland....However, because of her exposure to the virus, Vinson shouldn't have traveled on the commercial flight, the CDC director said on Wednesday. Frieden revealed the nurse registered a low-grade fever of 99.5 degrees before she boarded the plane. It was later confirmed that the CDC gave Vinson permission to get on the plane because she was showing no other symptoms of the virus, and her temperature didn't reach the threshold of 100.4 degrees.

WTF!!!!

See, they told Nurse#2, "Go ahead, get on that plane. Noooo problem..." Then when it went to crap, they said, "OMG, she shouldn't have been on that plane!" Basically, it's the same thing they did to Nurse#1. What they're doing is issuing bullshit guidance, and then blaming the nurses when the guidance results in disaster or bad P.R.

 

[Vigilante]

I am a germ phobe. I don't particularly like to talk about what's going on with Ebola. I don't even like to shake hands with people, much less somebody sneezing on me and killing me. This Ebola thing is really f*cked up and has the potential to get even crazier. It's been around since the mid-1970s in the fact that they can't contain it is very troubling.

 

[throttleforward]

If you want to make some money and have an FBA account. Go buy boxes of M and L nitrile gloves, n95 masks etc from costco/sams/ whereever. Expedite to FBA and start selling them.... they are all out of stock on amazon right now.....

One of my amazon product areas overlaps with preppers - I just sold out of a number of items.

 

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[throttleforward]

1) That represented 80% of the items cited as waste.

2) Visitor centors are also easy to pick on, as are infrastructure improvements at other places like airports. And I agree, $100M goes a long way toward better research.

But let's not get carried away with getting angry at the headline, without doing the background research. We don't know what was included in that visitor center upgrade - often times important things get burried in line items when they can't get funding themselves. Did CDC sneak in better internet connectivity under the "visitor center" upgrade because they were unsuccessful in getting it funded during that budget cycle? Did the visitor center experience a major structural problem (for instance, 50 year old pipes burst, causing flooding in the existing visitor center, rendering it unsafe?) We simply don't know enough to determine if it was waste or not.

And trust me, I've been around some "end of fiscal year, gotta spend the money" waste. It's outragious and happens every year.

But I've also been around for some really important spending, and when I ask where we got the money for that, I'm often very suprised as what trickery was required to get the resources we needed.

 

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[Iwokeup]

Our military CBRN responders are not incompetent boobs. Trust me, I understand and have experience with government incompetence, but despite perception it's often much more complicated (and government agencies are much more hamstrung) than the news would let on.

Nope. To all, please remember that blanket statements like "The Government is incompetent" is both inaccurate and misleading. Just like anything in life, there's a Bell curve distribution and there are several extremely competent actors in the government space.

FWIW, the CDC is also pretty competent. Is the Director of the CDC handling this crisis well? No, not at all. But please remember that both parties have continued to cut funding to the CDC (and the NIH, and to all those "teat sucking" researchers out there) and folks are trying to do the best that they can with limited resources.
[/RANT]

 

[throttleforward]

Everyone should be prepared to stay in their house with no running water and without opening any doors or windows for 72 hours. If you have a family and especially children, you need to take your responsibility to them seriously.

As an anecdote, a few years ago DC encountered a major blizzard. We lost power and water, and had over 2' of snow where I was just across the river in Virginia. I trudged over to the conveniance store to find that not only was their power out as well, but every single item except for stuff like pepper and gum were wiped clean. It dawned on me that if I truly needed food, I'd have to huff it to the nearest grocery store, which would likely be wiped out as well by that point. So, no realistic chance for regular food or water, and I could see the Capitol dome from my window.

Now, we certainly weren't going to starve or die of thirst, but it became very apparent very quickly that dependence on normal infrastructure and government services was not something to expect, even in DC, and even in something as simple and predictable as a snowstorm. It was really a wakeup call.

It's one thing to read about it, it's another to experience the twinge of panic yourself.

 

[Iwokeup]

Excellent link from a nurse calling BS on our Fearless Leadership.

http://shepherdofthegurneys.blogspot.com/2014/10/do-math.html?m=1

 

[ChickenHawk]

Ah, the Ebola Cruise!
http://belizean.com/belize-confirms-patient-with-ebola-symptoms-on-cruise-ship-off-its-coast-1814/

Belize Confirms Patient With Ebola Symptoms On Cruise Ship Off Its Coast
Reports tonight are that two individuals possibly infected with the Ebola virus are in Belizean waters. Local TV station Channel 7 monitored in the capital City Of Belmopan tonight, reported having credible reports that a couple from a Texas-based cruise ship presently anchored off Belize City, is on a ship tender, unable to return to the cruise ship, while being refused entry to Belize City to catch an air ambulance awaiting at the International Airport to take them to the their country of origin, the U.S.A....The patient exhibiting Ebola symptoms has been confirmed to be a nurse at a Dallas hospital traveling with her husband....The ship is reportedly carrying 3652 passengers and a total population of 4633 persons.

Soon, we will no doubt hear that this story is mistaken. Like Nurse #1 and Nurse #2, she's probably just a "low risk individual" and was not, in fact, exhibiting symptoms. No need to worry. Move along...

Similar to what @Bananas pointed out so eloquently earlier in this thread, the ramifications of this whole thing can be strange and long-reaching. Can you imagine if you were on that cruse? I love cruises. But man, the humanity is PACKED on those things. You share lawnchairs, serving utinsils, restrooms...

And here's a thought-provoking note. Within the last week, it's become painfully obvious that Ebola-treating nurses shouldn't be travelling. They shouldn't be seeing family. They shouldn't be spending time with their friends. Heck, they shouldn't even have pets. So, what happens when it becomes standard operating procedure to keep Ebola nurses quarantined from the rest of society? Aside from working with a life-threatening disease, who in the heck is going to sign on for that job if it means they'll spend the next three weeks in solitary confinement? And, if the nurses are quarantined, who's going to deal with their community's non-Ebola health needs?

And I repeat a point from earlier -- all from ONE dude who lied to get here.

(EDIT: An additional thought. Even if this particular nurse doesn't have Ebola, think of the disruption and stress for those thousands of people. And think of the potential damage to the cruise industry if people start to worry about such things. Who wants to hop in a communal hot tub under these circumstances?)

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The Belizean's government response to the potential threat has been 1st world. The United States'? Third world.

While rumours ran wild in social media earlier on Thursday night, the government release made clear that “out of an abundance of caution, the Government of Belize decided not to facilitate a US request for assistance in evacuating the passenger through the Philip Goldson International Airport.”

Basically Belize to the USA: "F*ck you -- you aren't porting and coming to shore"

As someone who just spent 8 hours sleeping in that airport, I am thankful for their prudence.

http://www.patrickjonesbelize.com/2014/10/16/gob-suspected-ebola-cruise-passenger-set-foot-belize/

 

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[Vigilante]

Well I live in Dallas so that kinda sucks. lol the wife and I are going to go up to Minnesota and stay with my sister if it gets bad. But, business as usual until then.

The air is great in Minnesota. In another month or so, it will be so F*cking cold that the viruses can't survive. They freeze. Same reason we have no snakes, spiders, or Arizonans.