Why learn copywriting?

[Heisenberg]

I've been seeing many threads here in thefastlaneforums, about how to learn copy, about copywriting books and about learning journals but I haven't seen a why anywhere.

Why should we learn copywriting when we can hire other people who spent hundreds of hours learning it already? Why should we learn copy if we're only gonna use it when writing a sales page or when sending emails to our list? Let me guess, something to do with mindset change?

I'm completely clueless, please educate me.

 

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[nickR8]

I think copywriting is a valuable skill to have but the main reason why it is mentioned so much on the forum is, I think, (as you already suggested) that it changes your mindset.

Copywriting is basically salesmanship in print. And if you want to be an entrepreneur being good at selling is hugely important. And when you can sell stuff through printed words alone, you are basically invincible

I've learned some copywriting and it has definitely changed the way I think. It distills the most important sales concepts. For example things like being benefit oriented, grabbing people's attention, creating scarcity, addressing the basic human desires etc. are hammered into your mind.

But copywriting might be a little overrated here... If you are a master copywriter but never put anything into action, you might as well stay away from copywriting.

These are just my thoughts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tom.V]

It's all about persuasion and influence, aka the core of selling anything. No matter where your journey in life takes you, it is a skill that will always come in handy somewhere down the road. Whether you are writing ads, auto responders, communicating to potential clients via email, or making face-to-face million dollar deals; the ability to sell is absolutely vital. All the little tips and tricks you learn along the way just add to your arsenal.

 

[Heisenberg]

It's all about persuasion and influence, aka the core of selling anything. No matter where your journey in life takes you, it is a skill that will always come in handy somewhere down the road. Whether you are writing ads, auto responders, communicating to potential clients via email, or making face-to-face million dollar deals; the ability to sell is absolutely vital. All the little tips and tricks you learn along the way just add to your arsenal.

But instead of spending hours upon hours reading a dozen books about copywriting, and months practicing those, why shouldn't I instead read books on entrepreneurship? Books that are intended to give me information that will directly improve my entrepreneurial knowledge and skills? There are hundreds of good books out there on entrepreneurship, leadership, innovation, mindset, persuasion, sales and making money. So why should I read copywriting, which you claim will change my mindset, which will only indirectly improve my entrepreneurial skills?

I hope I'm able to get my point across, I'm not bashing or discouraging people from learning copywriting, but instead I'm trying to see if it is truly valuable by looking for its faults before dedicating my time and energy learning and practicing it.

 

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[healthstatus]

I'm not bashing or discouraging people from learning copywriting, but instead I'm trying to see if it is truly valuable by looking for its faults before dedicating my time and energy learning and practicing it.

Many people on the forum are looking for ways to build their seed money. Learning copywriting as a first tool gives you some potential to have a money printing skill. You write some ad copy, a presales letter and drive traffic to an existing product and get paid a commission. If you already have an abundance of cash, then sure, hire it out.

 

[brob742]

So why should I read copywriting, which you claim will change my mindset, which will only indirectly improve my entrepreneurial skills?

He didn't say it will just change your mindset. He said it's the core of selling anything. Selling is the most important entrepreneurial skill you can have in my opinion. There is no business without sales. Learning to influence people in general is potentially the greatest asset you can have.

Do the 30-day challenge. If you complete it you will have read countless books and gained an invaluable skill. What else would you accomplish in 30 days? Read a couple of general entrepreneurship books? You pick which you think would be more valuable.

 

[dfontes1188]

Copy is one of the many benificial skills of being a well rounded entrepreneur.

If you want to learn leadership, read books on leadership.

If you want to learn innovation, read up on inventors.

If you want to learn the mindset, read TMF and other books by successful entrepreneurs.

If you want to learn to negotiate, read books on negotiating.

If you want to learn to sell/promote your goods/services, learn COPY.

Hard to say that there is one size fits all book. You have to take the time to learn everything. I still am, we all are.

 

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[healthstatus]

Books that are intended to give me information that will directly improve my entrepreneurial knowledge and skills?

At the end of the day, you build your business, refine your process and make your widgets. You still have to sell them.

 

[Shades]

Id say because its a core fundamental skill. Its sales. Learning it can benefit you in any business online or offline. Hell, it would probably benefit you outside of business.

 

[IceCreamKid]

Because zen******* said to learn it.
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/zen*******-changed-how-i-view-the-world.49457/

Learning copy will help you create mental filters that will help you to decide which businesses will work and which ones won't. Some are more easily scalable than others. Copy will help you figure that out.

I learned 57 filters from learning to write copy.
The filters take need, entry, control, scale, and time then put them under a magnifying class to create 57 more detailed rules.

One thing that I couldn't understand is why didn't MJ's book ever mention copywriting. It was rarely ever brought up in this forum until I made that zen******* thread, despite the fact that copywriting is crucial. I hope MJ includes it in part 2 of TMF . It's very difficult to teach all of the tiny details of copywriting though...it's almost like writing a book on how to swim. You learn best by doing.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

From what little I know, it adds a level of consideration/thought to your approach.
So instead of flailing at customers with your message, you plan out the most impactful points to hit, how to hit them and how to help them take action.

Personally I'd love a shorter way to overview it (since I'm insanely busy and its hard to invest the energy I need into it). But at the same time (like anything worth knowing) you can't cram it in and act as if that is all it needs. These things tend to require a lot of respect to be done right (or explained well).

On the plus side, at full pace you can get a good grasp in three months (if I read ick correctly).
Obviously you are already kind of thinking of learning it since you asked about it, so my advice would be to take a bit of a look for the most impressive principles that are relevant to your business and can be implemented right now and to after finding them, see how it works for you.

I've been tossing and turning on the idea myself senior Heisenberg but I trust ICK on it cuz the way he writes is really cool and generally when people aren't fluffing it up (as he is not) you do have to take what he is saying and the value of his advice seriously.

Personally I have a lot of trouble skimming through the copy writing principles atm because I have to keep my head clear and focused on product creation, but if you have some space whereby there is no immediate threat of disruption of your process or interference, then I'd give it a shot.

No need to be a fanatic, but just look for some fantastic takeaways, and you'll definately find some if you put the work in. It will help you understand how to launch fast amongst a few other great things these guys here can speak for, and if nothing else it will strengthen your view of customers and how to get them to buy.

 

[Daniel A]

One thing that I couldn't understand is why didn't MJ's book ever mention copywriting. It was rarely ever brought up in this forum until I made that zen******* thread, despite the fact that copywriting is crucial.

Dude...I agree 100%! In another thread here about college I mentioned that I wish I had read "The Education of Millionaires" when I had graduated high school. I wish I had "learned what I needed to learn" right off the bat. I just started listening to Brian Tracy's Accelerated Learning Techniques recently and that's something he pointed out...something like "learn what you need to learn".

I knew the value of learning copywriting before reading that book but if I had known it even earlier (right after high school; or before), that would have been better.

 

[blaksol]

Because zen******* said to learn it.
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/zen*******-changed-how-i-view-the-world.49457/

Learning copy will help you create mental filters that will help you to decide which businesses will work and which ones won't. Some are more easily scalable than others. Copy will help you figure that out.

I learned 57 filters from learning to write copy.
The filters take need, entry, control, scale, and time then put them under a magnifying class to create 57 more detailed rules.

One thing that I couldn't understand is why didn't MJ's book ever mention copywriting. It was rarely ever brought up in this forum until I made that zen******* thread, despite the fact that copywriting is crucial. I hope MJ includes it in part 2 of TMF . It's very difficult to teach all of the tiny details of copywriting though...it's almost like writing a book on how to swim. You learn best by doing.

If you could recommend 1 book to learn "filters", what would it be ?

 

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[IceCreamKid]

If you could recommend 1 book to learn "filters", what would it be ?

None. It's like telling you to read 1 book on how to swim.

The best way is to copy by hand.

I am serious.

 

[Arman]

Because zen******* said to learn it.
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/zen*******-changed-how-i-view-the-world.49457/

Learning copy will help you create mental filters that will help you to decide which businesses will work and which ones won't. Some are more easily scalable than others. Copy will help you figure that out.

I learned 57 filters from learning to write copy.
The filters take need, entry, control, scale, and time then put them under a magnifying class to create 57 more detailed rules.

One thing that I couldn't understand is why didn't MJ's book ever mention copywriting. It was rarely ever brought up in this forum until I made that zen******* thread, despite the fact that copywriting is crucial. I hope MJ includes it in part 2 of TMF . It's very difficult to teach all of the tiny details of copywriting though...it's almost like writing a book on how to swim. You learn best by doing.

Can you explain for us what do you mean by 57 filter and how to get it? If I learn copywriting I will get that filter too?

 

[IceCreamKid]

Can you explain for us what do you mean by 57 filter and how to get it? If I learn copywriting I will get that filter too?

Filters...
instant gratification, authority figures, key desires, promises, building rapport, addressing objections, money back guarantees, risk reversals, social proof, building rapport, testimonials, creating scarcity, fear, greed, guilt, call to action, emotional hooks...

ugh there are so many. I can't explain each one. How about you just do yourself a favor and do some hand copying, yes? It'll be the best gift you ever gave yourself. Or your money back.

 

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[Arman]

Filters...
instant gratification, authority figures, key desires, promises, building rapport, addressing objections, money back guarantees, risk reversals, social proof, building rapport, testimonials, creating scarcity, fear, greed, guilt, call to action, emotional hooks...

ugh there are so many. I can't explain each one. How about you just do yourself a favor and do some hand copying, yes? It'll be the best gift you ever gave yourself. Or your money back.

So after learn copywriting, we will have a better knowledge to judge the opportunity/ product/service?

 

[StartupsRFun]

When people say "practice copy", for those of us who dont have a product should we just pick something randomly and write an ad for it?

 

[RogueInnovation]

Filters...
instant gratification, authority figures, key desires, promises, building rapport, addressing objections, money back guarantees, risk reversals, social proof, building rapport, testimonials, creating scarcity, fear, greed, guilt, call to action, emotional hooks...

I think I get it.
I actually funnily enough don't think I need them explained. Rather I can see that they would be points of study that enable a larger view of the specific topic.

For example, each specific thing is addressing a doubt or insecurity by cold reading, but is also a tangent of conversation. Each one is connected to memories relevant to their experiences buying. That time they felt good holding onto that first self bought piece of candy, the way they dodged the security guards at the mall because they stole an extra piece only to later be caught onto by their friends mother, how they wanted the candy badly because they were a kid and to be damned with the consequences, how the greater risk is to not take the candy and live a life of dulled emotional satisfaction, how everyone in the world loves candy and it would be crazy to miss out too, how candy is only there in the moment the impulse comes and how you just can't plan it...

I think I get it. You use the filters to share the buying experience with customers, and it builds rapport by connecting your experiences of these filters with theirs, so that you aren't a stranger they just want to avoid.
It is about breaking down walls and rebuilding them in a new way. Acknowledging hidden feelings and then establishing a safe way to buy/act.

Damn, do you have the rest of those filters somewhere by any chance?

 

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[JAJT]

One thing that I couldn't understand is why didn't MJ's book ever mention copywriting.

IMHO, MJ's book was about a paradigm shift in how people look at business/life, not about teaching individual skills. Perhaps his next book will be about wealth accelerators (which would actually be a pretty cool idea for a book) - copywriting, negotiation, how to use the telephone, etc...

When people say "practice copy", for those of us who dont have a product should we just pick something randomly and write an ad for it?

Check out the 30 day copywriting course going on here. The basic premise is copying, word for word, highly successful ads from the past. By writing it out (in pen and paper) you gain a feel for the writing styles, the flow, the word choice, etc... which you can then internalize and use for new, unique ads of your own when the time comes.

 

[healthstatus]

The basic premise is copying, word for word, highly successful ads from the past.

Then look at each line or complete thought and write out beside it, what is this line trying to accomplish. Does it make the reader, curious, overcome an objection, fulfill a desire, create tension, and so on....

 

[ck4750]

Perhaps his next book will be about wealth accelerators (which would actually be a pretty cool idea for a book) - copywriting, negotiation, how to use the telephone, etc...

I agree that would be awesome but I really don't care what it's about I'm buying it!

 

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[oldscool]

dfontes1188 made some good points and as usual healthstatus made a good point.

Just to recap, defontest1188 said:

Copy is one of the many benificial skills of being a well rounded entrepreneur.
If you want to learn leadership, read books on leadership.

If you want to learn innovation, read up on inventors.

If you want to learn the mindset, read TMF and other books by successful entrepreneurs.

If you want to learn to negotiate, read books on negotiating.

If you want to learn to sell/promote your goods/services, learn COPY.

Hard to say that there is one size fits all book. You have to take the time to learn everything. I still am, we all are.

Now I agree with mostly everything he said, but, to be fair OP you might be right as far as learning copy as a necessity. I can assure you there are many a wealthy fortune 500 and possibly forbes list billionaires who never read a copywriting book.
Like the saying goes,
"Do what you do best and let others do the rest",
or,
"you cant fit a square peg into a round hole"

Besides, I dont know how much capital you bringing to your business, I dont know your business model, or, the skills you already possess,(for all I know you might be a numbers cruncher, as an example). In restrospect, who am I to say with certainty that copywriting is something you need. It is great to know, but, you probably can succeed without it depending on your business model,(many others have). Just my 2 cents.

Like healthstatus said, for some who are looking to get seed money they choose copywriting to get them there.

 

[Heisenberg]

Because zen******* said to learn it.

I apologise for the naivety, but who is zen******* and why are you blindly listening to him as if his words are of a gods?

 

[oldscool]

Just read through your threads and see you are just 17 and trying to learn. Therefore, I suggest you go out there do the telemarketing and learn by trial and error. You'll figure out what you want to do once you get your feet wet. Also, Z is a member here. You can read some of his threads.

 

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[Shades]

I apologise for the naivety, but who is zen******* and why are you blindly listening to him as if his words are of a gods?

You have a lot of reading to do.

 

[RogueInnovation]

The best way I can think of right now to illustrate the worth of copy is, it is a way of automating connection with people, and helping them get through "tape" or other things getting in the way from your product. You might want to connect with people one on one but in the digital age you have to come to terms with the impossibility of talking to each person individually, and you need to extend your capabilities out horizontally (through reaching people you otherwise wouldn't) as well as vertically (through higher positioning and recognisable quality).

Its benefits are not merely new customer aquisition, or the swagger to sell a set of kitchen knives, but more control over the whole process. It allows you the ability to SELL TODAY at low effort (if you choose), or to sell later with incredible finess(it does not restrict that choice process, it enhances it).
Not only does it help you control WHEN you launch, it also teaches you things about how to structure marketting plans in a way that is REALISTIC and not built on hope, guess work, and pretty interfaces.
It also helps you to REMOVE bad "smells" and attitudes that are embedded in your business (embedded by doubts, fears, and just not knowing how to communicate everything you want to). Helping customers feel more SECURE, and removing micromanagement from certain processes.
It also expands what you see when you write, and allows you to see where things have "lost clarity" and how to get it back. It also allows you to mathematically judge the effectiveness of certain behaviours or messages, removing guess work.

Now... Certainly, copywriting is not godlike, however, some very successful people have had large gains from coming to understand it.
Copywriting is not for everyone, but I feel that principles, and greater control can be utilised by smart people to work to their advantage.

If you are looking for a way to enhance your skills, and have enough enthusiasm to take real lessons away from it, then its going to end up much better for you than if you have no support, are disgruntled about things, and just want to apply it without creativity (at bare minimum).

Zen, and icecreamkid give people the windows of opportunity to see an angle inwhich this skill can help them grow. And often times when learning, it is that very angle of attack that enables us to come out on top.
Guys that can give that angle to people and help them succeed, are more valuable than gold.

It is true that doing it by yourself may have limited value, but once you adopt an attitude that is confident, such as with ICK or zen, then your outlook can drastically change.

No one is following them because they think they are a god. They are following THEMSELVES because they saw a little bit of brilliance in someone elses example, and wanna be a part of it.


The real lesson with copy is... Don't judge something because you think you understand it, it may just surprise you what lies underneath.
If you don't look under the hood, how do you know what you are missing?

 

[McCoyH]

There is a lot of "feed me the answer" in this thread (and on the forum in general). Copy is important for multiple reasons, but even more important is DOING.

Go learn copy.
Then go use what you learned.
DO DO DO

People seem to always get stuck on "what kind of business should I start" and "what book should I read"... Doesn't matter

I've been working for MONTHS on ONE idea and have spent about $15,000 so far testing, failing, buying, testing, failing, testing, succeeding a little, and then failing again. All on the same idea...

Stop spending months trying to find the next best idea!

If you have 3 ideas in your head, pick one RIGHT NOW and get started. If it fails, tuff shit, it probably will, but what's important is learning from what you DID, and applying it next time.

What I'm trying to say is I've spent months and tons of money on one single "idea"... I'm pretty sure I've finally uncovered the angle I need to take to make it a success, but who knows....

You've got MONTHS maybe even YEARS of work ahead of you on the "one magic idea" you finally come up with years later.

Stop wasting time on the idea and start spending time doing, because you've got a shit load of DOING to DO no matter what the "idea" is....

 

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