Porn site owner who enjoys fast lane success IAMA on Reddit

[Vigilante]

He makes his living selling compromising images of other people's daughters to freaks. Totally legal, and obviously there is a huge demand for it.

I don't consider coke dealers to be "Fast Lane" nor do I consider bank robbers to be fast lane. For the same reason, people who prostitute 18 year old girls to 60 year old faceless anonymous men are not heroes nor are they role models.

Don't get me wrong. I am no choir boy nor am I a role model. I just respect the hell out of people who make their living without resorting to the lowest common denominator in society.

It's a free country. Do what ever you want. I think he should have a right to do it. I simply am not going to cheerlead someone's success for selling porn.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

As an industry, it has clearly passed its heyday.

Years ago back in my Lambo days I knew a guy who was killing it in porn (think early/mid-2000's) -- he owned a garage full of cars (Bugatti, Lambos, etc.) -- he got out of the business (he basically alluded what you're saying, "it's hard to compete with free") and is now is in GAMING.

Gaming! Think about that. He went from one business with addictive characteristics into another one.

He's no dummy.

 

[dknise]

It's not at the cost of others, the girls are more than willing participants. I know dad's like to think their daughters aren't complete freaks, but they are.

 

[Kak]

As a rule, I don't partake in businesses that I can't be proud of. I wouldn't be proud to own a porn site.

I even examined how I felt about a casino opportunity I was considering, and after a little self inflection, I decided I didn't want to prey on the weak. There are people exchanging their money for lights and sounds until they run out of money and wait for the next paycheck. It didn't sit well with me. Meh. I'd rather do something cooler.

My own values and ethics aside... I still don't think porn is good business. Why? Because for every person that it doesn't sit right with, there is another me-too band wagoner thinking he is doing something groundbreaking by posting porn on the internet. There are MILLIONS of porn sites... It's a commodity and basically free. I don't want to compete with a free product.

There are WAY better ways to make money both in terms of income and being part of something upstanding.

I don't care what @catlady says, the notion of an underserved niche in porn, with the millions upon millions of different sites out there doing the same thing is ridiculous and the first thing I'd think is "that's someones daughter."

And to the op... 300k is far from "fastlane success" further proving my point.

 

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[Tom.V]

It should be illegal.

That is quite the bold statement. I guess we should make alcohol, television, and anything pleasurable illegal as well?

 

[miked_d]

I thought this was The Fastlane Forum, not the Moral Police Forum. If you are not comfortable with certain legal businesses don't deal with them.

Can't we just stick to whether this is Fastlane/Slowlane?

 

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[Fox]

If I was going to do anything porn related it would be on removing a porn addiction.

All ethics aside some people have a huge issue with porn addiction. Just like gambling or alcohol some people are just not wired to use it and end up running into huge issues. If anyone has come across the no-fap movement you can see how many people have a HUGE problem with this.

So why everyone is going one direction look at the side industry being created. I don't have this issue so its not something I have done huge research on but I can't think of one online course or person who has a brand on getting over porn addiction.
Is there any large YT channels or online courses on this? (I dont know).

Just like:
Lots of tattooing shops > open laser removal business
...
Lots of more extreme and niche porn sites > get into addiction recovery

Plus I think you become what you focus on - I would rather be involved in industry that puts people on an upward trajectory.
You can't buy back somethings no matter how profitable it was.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Please try keeping the conversation civil, thank u!!!

So why everyone is going one direction look at the side industry being created. I don't have this issue so its not something I have done huge research on but I can't think of one online course or person who has a brand on getting over porn addiction.
Is there any large YT channels or online courses on this? (I dont know).

Just like:
Lots of tattooing shops > open laser removal business
...
Lots of more extreme and niche porn sites > get into addiction recovery

Plus I think you become what you focus on - I would rather be involved in industry that puts people on an upward trajectory.
You can't buy back somethings no matter how profitable it was.

Post an INE on the INSIDE, really sounds like a great problem to solve, with big needs. And you can sleep at night. Maybe you can even go the same route Dave Ramsey did with finance, coupling it with Christianity or religion.

 

[Fox]

Sign of a good market : look at those views to sub count ratios...

 

[Vigilante]

When people hide behind morality to make their point, they usually do it to feel superior than someone else. I'm simply calling that out

My business is linked to the porn world. My product was recently nominated for an AVN award. I've formed connections with numerous people in the adult industry. People in front of camera, behind the camera and behind the CPU. Alot of the statements that people are making in this thread are baseless and downright insulting. I know snobbery when I see it.

You should check my posts if you want to claim that I am on the wrong forum. I actually talk about business when I post. I may not be clique'd up with other members on this board, but that does not mean that I do not provide value when I post.
If you actually wanted to talk about business in the porn world, and how money is made in the adult industry, I could actually make this a lively discussion. The adult underworld is quite interesting and profitable.

If you are in the industry, you must know that most surveys of Americans show that 70% (roughly) think porn is morally bankrupt. While an argument could be made that more than that watch it, the statistic remains relatively consistent. 7 out of 10 people disagree with your viewpoint.

That's OK. You are free to follow your conscience where ever it leads. However, it probably will never win a debate point when you attack the motive of someone that shares the viewpoint of the majority of Americans.

Nobody argues that Americans as a whole are particularly virtuous, which is why when as a collective they reject the fringe minority that find pornography to be societally acceptable, it's amazing that Americans coalesce around a shared viewpoint.

Assume 7 out of 10 people here find the way you make your living repugnant. Doesn't make them right, but certainly doesn't cede to you any moral high ground either. Hypocrisy abounds on all sides of the topic, which is why it is best to simply go about the business without taking it to personal degregation. Realize that many (most) people would side with him over your character attack over a position held by the majority of Americans. It's simply a losing debate point.

 

[Fox]

Since non of us are planning (I think) on being sex workers then any view at porn is going to be as an owner/producer... I just don't see any upsides.

That same skill set is going to produce so much more returns in nearly any other kind of online business. The exact same skills (video production, SEO, finding a niche, paid traffic) could be used in a ton of other ways that have a way higher chance of taking off.

It just seems like one of the worst industries to pick. Plus look at the reaction to people on this thread. Do 5 years in porn and then try switch to X unrelated industry. Like it or not people are going to want to avoid the image you are carrying over. You might be fine with it but 70% of people are not (even if they use it privately) so your possible business connections are going to go way down.

Good business is smart business and it just doesn't seem like a very smart industry to be involved in. The potential for something to go sideways real fast seems huge. Web design has its bad days but my computer isn't at risk of catching HIV and suing me.

Morals aside it seems like a very low chance / super high risk business to be getting involved in. The examples of business owners who have done well seem to be the exception, not the rule.

 

[Vigilante]

Porn is sweet, I watch is quite often and find nothing wrong with it.

What a GREAT second post. You are going to be a rock star around here. Welcome to the forum.

 

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[Kak]

Most of the people in this threads are just getting off on being morally superior. Clown stuff....

I guess holding myself, my family, and my businesses to an ethical standard and having moral values is “clown stuff” now... LOL. This world is backwards as F*ck.

 

[Kak]

IMO, that provides more value to a business board than talking about one's moral compass.

Business and personal ethics are actually extremely important when it comes to making real money. Intergenerational money. You will find that the truly successful have a long term vision. They don't want to get involved in crooked dealings, and do business with questionable people to make a quick buck.

Decades ago upholding a good name was something people would never dream of departing from. It still holds up in wealthy circles. I can tell you, at least in my industry, that being an ethical, man of my word has gotten me tremendously farther than the alternative, a scorched earth, screw you money now mentality.

I would have nothing if it wasn't for my team's early belief in my vision and leadership. I wonder how far I would have gotten conducting myself like you... The answer is probably stuck in my parents basement running a 30k per year porn "empire."

 

[rogue synthetic]

So I don't have any vested interest in the moral debate here, but I do think there is an interesting thread running behind that argument which could be taken back on topic (if we want to salvage some good discussion)

Without wading into the topic of vice, a few things stand out as interesting:

* Pornhub's consolidation of online porn is yet another example of network effects upsetting a well-entrenched industry of big players. The Napster/Amazon/Uber effect works everywhere.

* Like the other markets where the old players are disrupted by network effects, lots of new opportunities are opening up out in the long tails for the keen-eyed.

* @Vigilante 's statistics make for a neat little problem space. Seven out of 10 Americans respond to surveys with a negative attitude to porn... but the market is massive and growing. Another word for contradiction is opportunity. (And thinking more laterally than "making pron")

The moral question is interesting enough though -- as we've seen -- that's a battlefield where there will be no winners. Not on a message board. Maybe with bayonets on a grassy meadow at dawn.

In that spirit I'd be interested in hearing more from @MoreVolume on the business side of the industry. Even if you don't agree with the content (and that is a perfectly fine position to take, for all the reasons mentioned so far) adult biz has been quite good at creative innovation online. Maybe there's something to learn even if we have no ethical stake in its wares?

 

[AmyQ]

Sounds like a NEED for a new revenue model?


On the moral side of it, filming two consenting adults engaged in willing sexual relations... why not? The only thing I find ironic about it, is that it's only legal here in the US if you're going to film it and charge people to watch haha.

What I find immoral is starting a bullshit supplement company based on pseudoscience for weight loss and preying on people's insecurities and downfalls. Two people ****ing? Get out haha.

We don't sell porn, but our merchant account provider has a lot of clients who do. The last time I met the owner of the company that provides our merch account, he told me that his clients are changing to a peep show type of model where customers buy slots of time rather than monthly access. It cuts down on videos being stolen and then offered up for free elsewhere.

He also said chargebacks are a nightmare. Lots of buyers remorse and guys claiming their cc was stolen when their wife finds out. Since intangible goods are being sold without a physical signature, the merchants lose virtually all chargeback disputes.

 

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[Kak]

I wish that folks wouldn't think womens' only value is our relation to others. It would be nice to be seen as humans capable of making our own choices and having value in our own right. No one seems to be emphasizing "that's someone's son" despite the fact that most porn out there is hetero or dude-on-dude porn meaning there are a pretty large proportion of models/actors who are male.

(And, topically, having sexuality in our own right. Because it couldn't possibly be cool to get paid for having sex! Because we're women who could only possibly get into this industry by coercion!)

Guess what cat lady... I am a “human capable of making choices” just like you keep saying, so by your own valition, I’m allowed to say the following...

I’ll never understand the go-getter attitude to the libertine lifestyle devoid of any consideration to responsibility, morals or ethics...

My opinion on the issue has nothing to do with the “sexism” picture you’re trying, and failing, to paint and my original response was mostly business related.

 

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[MoreVolume]

So if anybody disagrees with you they are thumping their chests and get called names?

I think you have the wrong forum.

When people hide behind morality to make their point, they usually do it to feel superior than someone else. I'm simply calling that out

My business is linked to the porn world. My product was recently nominated for an AVN award. I've formed connections with numerous people in the adult industry. People in front of camera, behind the camera and behind the CPU. Alot of the statements that people are making in this thread are baseless and downright insulting. I know snobbery when I see it.

You should check my posts if you want to claim that I am on the wrong forum. I actually talk about business when I post. I may not be clique'd up with other members on this board, but that does not mean that I do not provide value when I post.
If you actually wanted to talk about business in the porn world, and how money is made in the adult industry, I could actually make this a lively discussion. The adult underworld is quite interesting and profitable.

 

[Vigilante]

How about all the people tortured, killed, beat up, mutilated in the sexual entertainment world. I have a friend missing since 2001, and the suspect possibly a freak who was involved in drugging up people with GSB, chopped them up, after sexual bull crap. So defend your unethical and immoral world of sexual entertainment, because I know first hand what happens.

If it's all that great of an industry I guess the police wouldn't be busting people sexual crimes. What do you think causes domestic violence, child abuse, and even sometimes gun violence? Are you so blind you don't understand how the nervous system works, and that even if you do know emotional and mental toughness and regulation, over a long period of time, enough abuse, you can't stop the violence from occurring, because it taps into the emotional center, pain and pleasure, reward and punishment, and dopamine, the high way to all addictions.

I think the only person fooling themselves in yourself. Stuff happens behind the scenes every day, we just don't see it in the public eye. You know how many unidentified bodies there are? Do you know how many missing persons there are? I think you go better take a look. While it never gets talked about, some of these cases have to do with Sexual Entertainment.

I'm sure there are stack of cold cases having deal with this industry. I think that's the point. We never hear about the horror stories.

Maybe

Anyone who denies the dark side of the sex workers industry is deluding themselves for their own gain at the expense of others.

On any subject, you will find me pro-people.

 

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[DeletedUser19]

That is quite the bold statement. I guess we should make alcohol, television, and anything pleasurable illegal as well?

Porn changes your brain. It causes social anxiety, deppresion, shyness, not able to look people in the eyes. it also causes erectile disfunction, premature ejaculation, decresing of potency and libido and loosing manhood in general. There can be more. It depends. I used to be a porn addict myself, but luckily I found about it early in life.

Porn FAQs | Your Brain On Porn

To older fastlaners who have kids: Whatever happens, don't let your sons watch porn. You are welcome.

 

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[Vigilante]

But, yes. Internet porn is very fastlane, if done right.

I guess you and I have a different concept of what "Fast Lane" is...

I don't traffic in people.

 

[Bigguns50]

I have about 8 yrs total experience working strip clubs. My Fastlane business will deal with the clubs. I personally do not like this industry one bit. However, the angle I'm taking is actually helping the dancers.

No one helps the girls in this business. They take advantage of them and their life situations. It's sick really. The club owners I've dealt with, and I'm sure not all, are like wolves in sheep skin. Many owners I've met I have no respect for...but...I will take their money and do something good with it...and hopefully make a lot of $ in the process.

 

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[Cat Lady]

I feel like I should chime in as one of the few forum members who actually has been one of the "daughters" who worked in the adult industry. I was both an exotic dancer and have done adult modeling for porn sites.

I was working, in my more radical co-op days, on a co-op business model for an adult website where all the participants would be co owners (cumingtogether.coop was the name we came up with). It would appeal to the more radical segment of the market who wants "ethical porn" and it would break the usual way the industry works:

1) the models get paid once and have their name (stage or real) and faces associated with the work forever
2) the photographers get paid once and doesn't have their name tied to the work
3) the website owners get paid forever and don't need their name associated with the work if they set up good shell business entities

The idea was to make the models participants in the co-op so that everyone gets an equal share through the process, similar to other business co-ops. I never got it off the ground between all my other organizing work, and since I went into politics later on, I'm pretty glad I didn't, but I think it speaks to the fastlane nature of the business.

Suicidegirls (despite the unsavory name, based on a novel) has done an interesting job mixing a "cool kids" alternative community, pinup modeling, and journalism. They've been at it since the early 2000's and are pretty interesting as a business model. They work on the emotional connection - however false- you have to the models.

Here's the thing. Sex sells. Pleasure provides value. While some porn is involved in human trafficking or otherwise morally reprehensible things (ugh revenge porn makes me hella angry), it's a market that will continue to need to serve folks forever. Running a good and ethical fastlane business in the adult industry IS possible, but not easy.

I think there's extremely great fastlane opportunities in niches that serve women and queer folks, particularly since women tend to prefer story-based narratives (and often reading over video). Male gaze "lesbian" porn is notoriously awful with absolutely impractical long nails and poorly thought out storylines. Good queer- and female-focused porn is a BIG but underserved niche (the crashpad series is one of the only ones.)

If you want to see the fastlane advantages of selling sex to a female audience, just look at the success of 50 shades of grey.

Anyway, morality is a factor (and don't even get me started on credit card processing) but I was annoyed that it was 100% men in this discussion and no one with actual experience being the "daughters" in the field. Also please stop calling models "daughters" - we are adult women in our own right, not someone else's belonging with no agency of our own.

ETA: I was a full-time live in social worker when I was a model and dancer. It sucks that society told me my highest value per hour was not helping women get sober and get custody of their kids back all day, but instead taking off my clothing for money all night. But society showed me my highest value was not in changing the lives of women, but in talking cash out of the pockets of men by taking off my clothing.

 

[rollerskates]

Not seeing the creating-value part of this one. Also, just because something brings in income in a passive manner, does not mean it's a good fast lane venture. Selling crack can be fast lane too...

I agree with @Kak on all points.

Also, in Jordan Peterson's new book, he has a chapter on parenting called "Don't let your kids do things you wouldn't do" or something like that. Likewise, what you yourself do should be an example for your children, and porn probably isn't the ambition most parents have for their children.

That's not to mention all the other things wrong with that industry--risk of disease, harm to the psyche and the soul, objectification of other humans, and so much more.

I give this fast lane idea

 

[Cat Lady]

Are you personally running any of the aforementioned business to any success? Any of us can can put our finger in the wind and make claims of profitability and opportunity all day, but the reality is, talk is cheap and actual revenue is expensive.

Nope! I'm just on hold right now dealing with a fulfillment issue and find it fun to think of fastlane businesses while I wait. I left the industry more than 12 years ago but still know a handful of people working in the business.

I run a business I am much happier with, as it's much less "dirty" - but I think is a little less fastlane then some of these proposed solutions.

I actually didn't realize the thread was 5 years old - didn't look at the dates! I found it when looking at someone's responses from another thread. Sorry I dredged up an old unsavory thread

 

[Vigilante]

Ethical standard? Moral values? You're just thumping your chest.
Sex is a biological function, and everyone gets has to get off. Some men have perversions that they would rather keep discreet. Some men have a very hard time getting women. Some guys want access to women that they have no chance of getting close to under normal circumstances. The world of porn/kink/whatever you want to call it scratches that itch.
Its a line of work.
Guys like you are funny. You paint yourself as some type of moral crusader, and expect everyone to operate in the same way you do, so you can find a reason to feel like you're worth something.
Im sure that you'll discount the fact that these people are filling a need (one which generates billions of dollars a year). I'm sure that you'll discount the fact that the industry allows people to take care of themselves financially. I'm sure that you'll avoid the fact that these people aren't forced at gunpoint to join the industry.
As long as you can thump your chest about being some moral do-gooder.

I bet you had the same thoughts about weed dealers...until it became legal.
At the end of the day, business is business. There are people dying right now in order for you to power your car with gasoline. Children are losing limbs slaving away in mines so some millionaire can by a ring for his wife. Animals get slaughtered every day, so we can feast on cheap sandwiches.

But you have the nerve to talk about ethics and morals, like you're really saying something. You ARE a clown

So if anybody disagrees with you they are thumping their chests and get called names?

Please keep your posts civil and refrain from personal attacks.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Its weird how it's socially acceptable to put someone else's genitals in your mouth, but eating a Dorito off the floor after a few seconds is gross. What a double standard.

 

[Mattie]

Don't get me wrong. I am no choir boy nor am I a role model. I just respect the hell out of people who make their living without resorting to the lowest common denominator in society.

Here's a wonderful story about a child. When he was born one parent chose the Sexual Entertainment Industry, No ethics, No morals, No values, while the other parent chose to be a role model, toughed it out, single parent, and taught morals and ethics, values, and respect for self and others. The unethical parent was around probably 6 months may be two years if you added up all the days in the life. Drugs, Alcohol in the mix.

One day the parent hit the biggest disaster in their child's teen years. The parent was faced with making the same choices as the other parent did back ten years before, (A) illegal activities, sexual entertainment, or (B) just continue taking the hits, educate themselves, be the role model of ethics, morals, values, and not steal, vandalize, destroy other people's property, be harmful to self or others. Long-term gains, bigger picture of the future of child's future. Where the other parent was (Short-term gains)

One day this parent read M.J.'s Books, spent many hours in the forum. The forum impacted the child's life in a positive way. In 2018, the child makes healthy choices, aims for success, educates themselves, and wants to do great things for humanity. The story isn't finished yet. But I bet you at the end of the story, the child lives a more successful life than following the other parent. To be continued~

 

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[MoreVolume]

If you are in the industry, you must know that most surveys of Americans show that 70% (roughly) think porn is morally bankrupt. While an argument could be made that more than that watch it, the statistic remains relatively consistent. 7 out of 10 people disagree with your viewpoint.

That's OK. You are free to follow your conscience where ever it leads. However, it probably will never win a debate point when you attack the motive of someone that shares the viewpoint of the majority of Americans.

Nobody argues that Americans as a whole are particularly virtuous, which is why when as a collective they reject the fringe minority that find pornography to be societally acceptable, it's amazing that Americans coalesce around a shared viewpoint.

Assume 7 out of 10 people here find the way you make your living repugnant. Doesn't make them right, but certainly doesn't cede to you any moral high ground either. Hypocrisy abounds on all sides of the topic, which is why it is best to simply go about the business without taking it to personal degregation. Realize that many (most) people would side with him over your character attack over a position held by the majority of Americans. It's simply a losing debate point.

There you go with that morality stuff.
How many people died this year due to a drunk driver? (Alcohol Industry)
How many children lost their lives in diamond mines? (Precious stones industry)
How many people have throat cancer right now b/c of their nicotine addiction? (Tobacco industry)
How many men were shot up and bombed so that we could you could pump gas into your car this week? (Petrol industry)
I don't really see what point you're trying to make lol

Btw im not IN the industry. My company produces products that are utilized by men in the industry (and all walks of life). I'm in adult stores....retail stores....a pharmacy.....
Porn is just one of the many ways that I choose to advertise
Nice try though

You think porn is immoral. Cool.
But this is a business forum, and alot of things could be learned from a real business discussion....

 

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[Vigilante]

It's all due to societal norms and pressures. It's very difficult for the large majority of the population to overcome societal indoctrination.

Ah but see you view sexual purity as a deficiency that needs to be overcome. Most view sexual aberration and deviancy as the low ground. You start from a premise that people who hold traditional viewpoints have something they need to overcome. Society disagrees, and the collective sets the bar for where the mores are. You are free (in the United States) to disagree, but in our lifetime your viewpoint will never be even close to a majority.