Ego, confidence and overconfidence. Where does one draw the line? How can one use ego positively?

[SnowLava]

Had been inactive here for quite a while - have been actually working and studying. Recently bought the book Ego Is The Enemy by Ryan Holiday on Kindle, and currently reading it. It talks about how ego is disastrous in all three stages of life - aspiring, success and failure. But I was wondering, is he actually wrong? There are many examples of people who did great in their respective fields who are hugely egoistic (or confident? Where lies the difference?) Eg-Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Lets just take a very prominent example - Ronaldo and Messi.

Ronaldo is often seen as the over-confident and egoistic one. When asked who the best player in the world is - he will proudly say its him. He did that even before he reached so much success. And then there's Messi - the humble one. He will always say that there are countless great people ahead of him. If you are interested in football, you can easily see the polarization in their character. Ronaldo plays (mostly) for himself (not a bad thing) while Messi (mostly) plays for the team.

What approach do you choose? Why? Where does one draw the line between being confident, over-confident and egoistic?

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Asked and answered: MINDSET - The Ego Is Your Friend

 

[BizyDad]

What approach do you choose? Why? Where does one draw the line between being confident, over-confident and egoistic?

It is good to be questioning. Everyone has an opinion.

But what really matters is where do you land on the issue? What kind of man do you want to be?

The truth is, your choice will have consequences no matter what. Learn what the consequences are, then decide what you are willing to accept.

 

[Kak]

On one hand, being articulately confident in your abilities as a leader, company and what you expect out of people in your orginization is incredibly important.

On the other, being rude, prideful, egotistical, and arrogant are not good traits in a leader and will harm more than help.

Your job as a leader is to inspire, fostering trust and loyalty. Be an orginization they love working with and for. Not to boss people around and treat them poorly.
I've been the arrogant prick in the room. I know know more than that guy now.

 

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[SnowLava]

Asked and answered: MINDSET - The Ego Is Your Friend

Ah thanks. My bad I didnt search here. However, is it really useful/true to just say that 'ego is enemy' is just SCRIPT bs? What about those who are successful yet humble?(Ratan Tata, Amancio Ortega etc) Would you simply conclude that they are SCRIPT Spreaders? Yes. A lot of successful people have had huge egos. But this is just a survivorship bias. What about the millions of egoists who didnt make through? Did the ones you mentioned in your post became rich because of ego or despite their ego? I agree you have far more experience than me. Just trying to have a respectful debate about a relevant topic ..

 

[Black_Dragon43]

However, is it really useful/true to just say that 'ego is enemy' is just SCRIPT bs? What about those who are successful yet humble?

There are many circumstances in this world. Sometimes leaders with a moral fabric shine through, other times it is those who are ruthless and have no mother and father who win.

There is no “perfect” way of being that guarantees success or victory.

I advocate to be both — know when to be ruthless and when to be good. When to have an ego, and when to be without one. Have your priciples and stick by them, but know when to break the rules.

Typically, in highly chaotic situations, ruthless leaders rise to the top. Whereas during times of relative peace and prosperity moral leaders have a better chance. But, the wheel of history keeps turning, there is no stability.

In the long run, goodness wins. But, not at an individual level. A morally upstanding leader can face a bitter end when surrounded by serpents wiser than him in the ways of the world. And a morally corrupt leader tends to undermine himself — also in the long run. Sometimes this long run can be longer than his life.

I would say for the most part, those who rise to the very pinnacle of success are ruthless. I’m not sure if Mr. Ortega is a humble guy… just because he doesn’t appear in the media doesn’t mean he’s nice. Bernard Arnault doesn’t appear much in the media, but the people who have done business with him or been the victims of his hostile takeovers often wish they hadn’t. They don’t call him the “wolf in cashmere” for no reason.

Why does this happen?

It’s largely because extreme wealth is often the product of highly unbalanced situations — and being able to take advantage of them. Ruthless leaders are much better able of taking advantage of such situations, because they have no moral considerations beyond their self-interest. Whereas the good leader will often try to balance other interests too, and look for a more stable move, even if it may not yield big benefits for them immediately.

But… and this is a warning, ruthless leaders always assume a lot more risk in what they do, and the long run is often stacked agaisnt them.

 

[StrikingViper69]

This discussion is slightly flawed.

When people say "ego", it's usually used as an almost meaningless term that could mean anything, often what they usually mean is "arrogance", or "being an a**hole".

Ego is your sense of self, your abilities, shortcomings, goals etc.

Arrogance is thinking your abilities are greater than they are.

Part of your ego is having a realistic idea of where you're at, which helps you reach any ambitious goals you may have.

Being unrealistic with your abilities, whether you over or underestimate them, is detrimental to achieving any goals you may have.

Ego isn't the enemy, it's your life.

"The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" by Nathaniel Brandon has some good insights into ego and self esteem.

 

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[SnowLava]

Typically, in highly chaotic situations, ruthless leaders rise to the top. Whereas during times of relative peace and prosperity moral leaders have a better chance. But, the wheel of history keeps turning, there is no stability.

That makes a lot of sense when viewed through the lens of history. We have people like Napoleon taking advantage of their egos during chaotic times of revolutionary period in France to rise to power.

There is no “perfect” way of being that guarantees success or victory.

Yep right. Gotta stop overthinking about these things. 'Theres no right or wrong way , only your way'

 

[SnowLava]

Another example that I forgot that comes to my mind is Khabib and McGregor. This is better than the previous example of my post. Connor - the egoistic , haughty guy. Shit talking about everything and everyone. And then theres Khabib - praising his God every second and not taking much credit for what he did. Speaking of monetary perspective, Connor is way more succesful. But the one who left the biggest legacy? Khabib.


What I have concluded is that ultimately its upon us to decide what we want most and act accordingly. Do we want Character? or money? good relationships? or power? thats going to decide what our 'way of living' should be.