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Website creation software.

lithius

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Hey All,

is it better to use a website creation software(the click and drag type) or learn HTML/XML and other coding languages?

i am looking at web easy professional 8 as a possible software to use. i just want a basic product selling site to start off with to get my feet wet and then take it from there. i feeel like i wouldnt have as much creative freedom with web easy professional than i would if i actually learned HTML.

thoughts and recomendations appreciated.
 
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Icy

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'better' completely depends on the task at hand. Generally though D&D applications are a lot more limited than actually learning html\css\javascript.

Just a side note, XML is a data markup language, and won't be something you need to know for layout\design of a website.

Really, don't get caught up on this decision. Think you'll create more on your own in the future? It could be a wise decision to learn now if you have the time. This just a thing to try it out, it could be better to just use the software.

Edit: If you got the route of learning look up tutorials for html, and css. If you want an interactive experience then also learn javascript (not java, which are completely different).
 

lithius

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thank you for the response.

-what do you mean by D&D applications?
i am planning to start small and expand later on using the CENTS formula.

i am planning to create more on my own in the future as the website progresses so i am going to take the time to learn HTML/css and javascript. are these the only ones needed to create a website from scratch/make changes at will?

in the meantime i am going to use the software to get my feet wet and feel what its like to own a website.

thank you and when you get a chance please response to my questions above.
 
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Milenko

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I can design websites from scratch and, unless I have a compelling reason not to, I use Wordpress every time. There's very little you can't do with Wordpress and a few plugins. And, hiring someone to create a custom Wordpress theme to your specifications is usually much less costly than having someone create a custom website design.

I just think there are much more valuable uses for your time than learning a skill that's so easily (and cheaply) outsourced...
 
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mindfulimmortal

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Learning a web language could be done but the time it would take you to learn it is energy that certainly could be better used getting you to the fastlane.
If it is a one time thing paying someone to do it for you is probably your best use of time and money. If you think you might be creating many websites or making changes often then I found the two best choices are Wordpress or Joomla.

I found a great source of joomla education from a company online called Joomlashack. They have an online university that is pretty reasonable and teaches you all the basics of Joomla. I have no affiliation with Joomlashack other than a user of thier university program and their templates. Using wordpress with a template such as thesis theme (google them) is pretty easy and functional with limited time.

All comes down to time to learn and what quality of product you want.
 

valuegiver

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Dreamweaver.
 

Bozigian

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Wordpress has alot that you can do. but ultimately it depends on what you are plannign to do
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Dreamweaver.

I use Dreamweaver still, but was wondering ... isn't it somewhat "antiquated" now? It seems to be trailing behind in terms of implementing interactivity. Of course I haven't use it for anything but static pages so I'm rusty in terms of developing something industrial grade.
 

maximus20895

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What do you mean by interactivity? I know you can add in some javascript. I use Dreamweaver occasionally and I like it. I wish I knew how to use it more efficiently though.
 

Milenko

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I use Dreamweaver still, but was wondering ... isn't it somewhat "antiquated" now? It seems to be trailing behind in terms of implementing interactivity. Of course I haven't use it for anything but static pages so I'm rusty in terms of developing something industrial grade.

Just started a new job and they had an extra license for Dreamweaver so I gave it a shot. The designers love it but it does leave some things to be desired when it comes to development (function signature code hints require a special hotkey, syntax highlighting for non-html is wonky, class code hints leave much to be desired).

It seems fine for general (html/css) use but I personally prefer NetBeans for programming stuff...
 
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alankong

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hey,

this is a great thread to check. i've always wondered whether i should invest my time in learning the coding for website building or not. i havent explored it much, but can wordpress really take care of most things that ppl want?

Milenko, you stated that things like these are easily outsourced. I'm currently outsourcing my website design to a company in India, and it's not as efficient as I would like. They take longer to do things and I've been on the same website designing project with them for almost 6-7 months now. I feel like it shouldn't have taken that long. It is an idea for a social networking site, do you believe that wordpress is powerful, sufficient, and creative enough to work with any creative idea our minds can come up with? If so, that'd be so amazing.

Would love to hear more people about their experiences and I'd be more than willing to learn coding for websites, if necessary. I think it'd be good because then one has full control of their website and understands it all. That's the biggest perk I see. Work your a$$ off and not have to wait on anybody's "contracted" time. At the same time, what if I could just use my creativity in creating ideas and hiring others to design it and bring it to life...while still working hard to promote it etc.
 

theBiz

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alan go to a bookstore and get a book on drupal, joomla, wordpress. Just use one of those Content Management Systems to build your site. Read a book from cover to end. Go home and implement what you read. Now as you monitor and change things you will learn alot. After some time you can start learning about more advanced coding. Focus on how you will market the product.
 
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Milenko

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Milenko, you stated that things like these are easily outsourced. I'm currently outsourcing my website design to a company in India, and it's not as efficient as I would like. They take longer to do things and I've been on the same website designing project with them for almost 6-7 months now. I feel like it shouldn't have taken that long. It is an idea for a social networking site, do you believe that wordpress is powerful, sufficient, and creative enough to work with any creative idea our minds can come up with? If so, that'd be so amazing.

Wordpress (and its wide variety of plugins) is great for standard websites (e.g. blogs, landing pages, online magazines, small business websites, portfolios, simple membership sites) but not good for application based websites (e-commerce, social networking, etc.). If the website isn't primarily content driven then Wordpress isn't going to be your best choice.

But, even for application based websites, there are hundreds of open source or moderately priced licensed software platforms upon which to build (Ning, Magento, SugarCRM, Drupal, Zoho, phpBB among many others). Unless your needs are extremely specific, taking something that exists and hiring someone to modify it to meet your requirements is typically a much quicker and cheaper solution than trying to have something built from scratch or learning how to do the programming yourself.

As for outsourcing, the more complex your project the more project management you're going to need. Writing specifications for a Wordpress plugin or Magento module is much easier to do, explain to a programmer, and monitor than having something completely custom done for you.

Unfortunately, it's kind of a catch-22 - for completely custom work you have to know enough to break down your project in a way that makes sure your remote team stays on task and gets things done but you probably wouldn't be outsourcing to India if you had that project management skill set in the first place. Managing outsourced labor for complex projects is not an easy task...
 

MJ DeMarco

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JRTX

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If you are just starting out, Wordpress would be the way to go initially. However, I'd get some knowledge too on HTML. There are times when I actually design what I want in Dreamweaver then copy over the HTML code into my Wordpress page or post.

Wordpress has a lot of plugins available to do just about anything. Although it's my opinion the more plugins your site has the slower it come becomes.

I learned HTML when it first came out and was building websites back in the day using Hogdog HTML editor. Then my brother showed me Dreamweaver with the ability to make templates, library items, and CSS. Boy that was a game changer. I probably still prefer using Dreamweaver for certain sites, but you can throw a nice looking Wordpress site up in minutes.

Like MJ says in his book, "Change your oil", go out and learn some new knowledge. After a few weeks you will be amazed at how much you know. And keep learning, that is the key!

Good luck!

JR
 
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alankong

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Wordpress (and its wide variety of plugins) is great for standard websites (e.g. blogs, landing pages, online magazines, small business websites, portfolios, simple membership sites) but not good for application based websites (e-commerce, social networking, etc.). If the website isn't primarily content driven then Wordpress isn't going to be your best choice.

But, even for application based websites, there are hundreds of open source or moderately priced licensed software platforms upon which to build (Ning, Magento, SugarCRM, Drupal, Zoho, phpBB among many others). Unless your needs are extremely specific, taking something that exists and hiring someone to modify it to meet your requirements is typically a much quicker and cheaper solution than trying to have something built from scratch or learning how to do the programming yourself.

As for outsourcing, the more complex your project the more project management you're going to need. Writing specifications for a Wordpress plugin or Magento module is much easier to do, explain to a programmer, and monitor than having something completely custom done for you.

Unfortunately, it's kind of a catch-22 - for completely custom work you have to know enough to break down your project in a way that makes sure your remote team stays on task and gets things done but you probably wouldn't be outsourcing to India if you had that project management skill set in the first place. Managing outsourced labor for complex projects is not an easy task...

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I'll prob start playing around with Wordpress and see where it takes me. It does seem cheaper than outsourcing the project, but I guess I'll find out the specifics as I move along.

Outsourcing has its perks as well, because while I work on the site during the day, they'll work on it at night. So that's where the project management comes in. However, just like anything, there are project management skills to learn and adapt to so that's what this experience is bringing me. if I was to outsource again, then I'll know how to prepare best for it. And even help out fellow fastlaners who may not have time to learn coding and want to outsource their work, I can give them good advice for it.

Thanks for your input.
 

alankong

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If you are just starting out, Wordpress would be the way to go initially. However, I'd get some knowledge too on HTML. There are times when I actually design what I want in Dreamweaver then copy over the HTML code into my Wordpress page or post.

Wordpress has a lot of plugins available to do just about anything. Although it's my opinion the more plugins your site has the slower it come becomes.

I learned HTML when it first came out and was building websites back in the day using Hogdog HTML editor. Then my brother showed me Dreamweaver with the ability to make templates, library items, and CSS. Boy that was a game changer. I probably still prefer using Dreamweaver for certain sites, but you can throw a nice looking Wordpress site up in minutes.

Like MJ says in his book, "Change your oil", go out and learn some new knowledge. After a few weeks you will be amazed at how much you know. And keep learning, that is the key!

Good luck!

JR

Thanks for the tip! My take of what you (and everyone) in this thread has said is that it's a good idea to choose one designated platform to really really learn, then it's good to possibly implement certain aspects of other website building platforms to supplement it. Will get crackin' this weekend for sure :)
 

lithius

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wow this thread has turned out to be quite informative. a lot of the questions i had were answered. i am going with wordpress then take it from there.

thank you everyone for your input.
 

bflbob

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I'm running well over 100 sites on WordPress.

They can look pretty crappy, like my outdated Boys Winter Coats site, or colorful, like this Chimney Wood Stove site, or full of motion, like my Smoothie Recipe, Milkshake, Margaritas, Slushie, Fruit Smoothie site.

What really matters are the themes you use, and the time you put into it. Good sites cost money to develop, even if it is just for custom headers or content, but (in my mind) it is better to spend money on that than to spend it learning how to code the pages yourself. WordPress makes it easy.
 

Icy

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You can do that in Dreamweaver. Infact, you can do AJAX coding in Notepad (which is my favorite editor when everything else fails).

You should give Notepad++ a go. Easy to configure styles (I personally don't like white backgrounds), and also syntax highlighting unlike Notepad. Tons more is possible, but past that it's all 'sugar' on top. Granted I like that sugar. :D

what do you mean by D&D applications?

Drag, and drop like the application you mentioned, or Dreamweaver which has been mentioned a lot

are these the only ones needed to create a website from scratch/make changes at will?

That's a good foundation for client side work (what the user will see). Then there are server side languages like PHP, Python (Django), ASP.NET or Ruby On Rails. Don't worry about a server-side language until you get a good base on html, css, and javascript.


What is that?


I learned HTML when it first came out and was building websites back in the day using Hogdog HTML editor. Then my brother showed me Dreamweaver with the ability to make templates, library items, and CSS. Boy that was a game changer. I probably still prefer using Dreamweaver for certain sites, but you can throw a nice looking Wordpress site up in minutes.

I'm not sure I understand, all that is simple without DreamWeaver - what is the benefit of DreamWeaver over not using it in this case? (Serious question)


----

This may be a small rant, but why do people instantly through out 'Wordpress', or even any CMS when they hear of a website needing to be created.

I mean, I understand that there are lots of templates and everything to make it simple, but that just means anyone can copy what you have in minutes..
 
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mindfulimmortal

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Lithius,

The good thing about Wordpress is there is so much content out there on web to help you learn. If you can find a wordpress template it would speed up your standup time and cut your initial learning curve a bit. As mentioned in this thread a Content Management System (wordpress, Joomla and Drupla) vs Dreamweaver seems to be the way to go for those of us who have less web programming skills. would love to hear your feedback as you move forward.
 

Milenko

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This may be a small rant, but why do people instantly through out 'Wordpress', or even any CMS when they hear of a website needing to be created.

I mean, I understand that there are lots of templates and everything to make it simple, but that just means anyone can copy what you have in minutes..

I think people get too caught up in the technology of doing something on the web and lose sight that the technology is just a tool. CMS allow you to get an idea up and test the market quickly and easily - it may not be the absolute perfect fit but it's a good enough first step to validate whether an idea has merit and deserves the extra time and expense a custom solution would require.

As for being able to copy what you have in minutes, that's true of the technology but not of the market research, marketing, process, email list, partnerships, etc. I could code a Groupon or Facebook clone but that wouldn't make me their competition - their competitive advantage lies outside the technology...
 

Icy

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I think people get too caught up in the technology of doing something on the web and lose sight that the technology is just a tool. CMS allow you to get an idea up and test the market quickly and easily - it may not be the absolute perfect fit but it's a good enough first step to validate whether an idea has merit and deserves the extra time and expense a custom solution would require.

Very true - to be honest that really resonates with me. I'm more of a programmer than a business man. Which I definitely need to work on. I mean this is a sense of a being a lot more passionate about creating 'perfect' (whatever that may be haha) architecture for the system rather than creating something that works for what is needed.

Looks like you need to read the book ;)

Oh no! You're on to me! :rofl: Thanks for the clarification
 

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