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Vigilante, Does WalMart Sell Crap?

jon.a

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Some years ago, I noticed that our toilet paper and paper towels bought from Wal-Mart had uneven end cuts. Not a big thing, but this got me to thinking. Is Wal-Mart somehow pushing inferior merchandise to keep their costs down?

This morning, Mrs. jon asked me if Wal-Mart might be selling cheap razor blades. It seems that the new ones that she just bought from Rite Aid seemed to work better for her. She doesn't need pink razor blades so we both use the same men's blades. I however will just use and use one until I can't stand the pull any more.

So, @Vigilante do you have the inside scoop? Does Wal-Mart sell crap?
 
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Vigilante

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Some years ago, I noticed that our toilet paper and paper towels bought from Wal-Mart had uneven end cuts. Not a big thing, but this got me to thinking. Is Wal-Mart somehow pushing inferior merchandise to keep their costs down?

This morning, Mrs. jon asked me if Wal-Mart might be selling cheap razor blades. It seems that the new ones that she just bought from Rite Aid seemed to work better for her. She doesn't need pink razor blades so we both use the same men's blades. I however will just use and use one until I can't stand the pull any more.

So, @Vigilante do you have the inside scoop? Does Wal-Mart sell crap?

Ironic that your OP mentions cut corners. We really could stop there.

Let's answer this a few different ways.

1. My mentor used to describe what it was like when he was a senior level executive running Philips Magnavox in the United States. He used to tell me that their factory would build a VCR for Wal-Mart, different from their regular models. They would then start removing parts to find cost reductions, one piece at a time until the VCR no longer worked. They would then put back the last part they removed.

2. Sam's Club (a division of Wal-Mart) operates as a separate entity from Wal-Mart, competing for quality/value against Costco. Costco gets the edge for higher end merchandise, but Sam's Club definitely has a different merchandising strategy than their sister company, Wal-Mart. Sam's Clubs quality is different than Wal-Marts. (how's that for a politically correct answer).

3. When Sam Walton was alive, the private label brands owned by Wal-Mart had to be BEST IN CLASS, outperforming and underpricing the industry leading brand competitors

4. Wal-Mart just this week had to recant a position in which they were claiming some products were made in America, that aren't :
http://consumerist.com/2015/10/21/r...eling-after-designation-dropped-from-website/

5. As a buyer for Wal-Mart corporate, they are under a constant grind to reduce prices.

6. When Wal-Mart presses vendors for cost concessions, the vendors look for areas to make that up (see point #1 above, and this article http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...el-the-squeeze-as-walmarts-earnings-drop.html)

7. On branded merchandise (such as a Samsung television) what Wal-Mart carries, in many cases, is a stripped down version of what Best Buy may carry. Only a consumer with a trained eye will detect the difference (and Best Buy no longer has knowledgable people to explain the difference.) Perception trumps reality.

8. When I was a buyer there, I routinely grinded the last penny from suppliers. They like to choke vendors until they almost pass out, and then let off just enough pressure so that the vendor stays conscious. Most companies hate doing business with them, and they get treated accordingly. Most vendors actively seek ways to cut corners.

In the razor blade arena, it seems that some of the direct to consumer "clubs" are doing a better job of providing better razors at lower prices, eliminating the retail markup. Wal-Mart may buy a pack of razor blades from Gillette for $10 and retail them for $20. You can now buy SCHMILLETTE brand blades (likely made in the same factory) for $14 from a direct marketing company that doesn't have to pay for retail stores, employees, or overhead. So that market, like a lot of markets, is evolving to the benefit of the consumer.

Summary : Sam Walton's Wal-Mart didn't sell shit. It sold branded products cheaply. Sam Walton's Wal-Mart isn't the Wal-Mart you walk into today.
 

Vigilante

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By the way, selling razors and razor blades is the perfect example of what the forum regularly refers to as selling shovels for the gold rush. The game used to be like the cell phone industry operated... sell the teaser razor and a few blades for little to zero margin, and then get the consumer to come back for the ridiculous overpriced blades for 6 months to a year or more. Your cell phone company gave you that flip phone you still carry for free, and you've been paying them monthly for the past 9 years ever sense in a closed loop.

It has been fascinating to see these new whippersnappers come in and beat the system by offering direct to consumer products with little to no overhead, and breaking apart the previous model by directly attacking the profit center. There are few bastions of profit left in commoditized retail, and this was one of them which is why it was vulnerable to shave clubs.
 
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mayana

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Most companies hate doing business with them, and they get treated accordingly

So true! It's not only Wal-Mart that puts the squeeze to vendors, but they definitely do have the worst reputation. Back when I was working with a big vendor to a home improvement chain, I had contact with a lot of other vendors who would have preferred to not need to sell to them.
 

Vigilante

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So true! It's not only Wal-Mart that puts the squeeze to vendors, but they definitely do have the worst reputation. Back when I was working with a big vendor to a home improvement chain, I had contact with a lot of other vendors who would have preferred to not need to sell to them.

They called Toro (lawnmowers) once, and wanted to buy Toro lawnmowers. Toro wouldn't even meet with them, and Wal-Mart couldn't believe it.

Wal-Mart sent several guys over to Asia to create Toro competitive products at Wal-Mart Asia prices. To this date, Toro is still not selling Wal-Mart lawnmowers.

I met with Bose once, representing Wal-Mart as the national buyer many years ago. I had my corporate Wal-Mart accountants with me, and Bose wanted to talk about billing discrepancies. My accounts from Wal-Mart admitted, in that meeting, at a senior level, that Wal-Mart just threw out the invoices that they didn't match with the first time the vendor sent them in. That has probably changed now in light of Sarbanes Oxley.
 

Vigilante

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I actually called a few vendors several months after I left Wal-Mart, and apologized for being such an a**hole to them while I worked there.

The system does that to you.
 
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LibertyForMe

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It probably isn't just Walmart.

My wife swears up and down that the Pampers baby diapers we buy at Target are not the same as the ones we buy from Babies-R-Us, even though they are in identical boxes and look exactly the same. She thinks they aren't as soft. She tried a Walmart box of Pampers, and that was the same quality as the Target one. It seems suspicious to me that companies will sell nearly identical looking products at different stores, that have different qualities.
 

OscarDeuce

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My mentor used to describe what it was like when he was a senior level executive running Philips Magnavox in the United States. He used to tell me that their factory would build a VCR for Wal-Mart, different from their regular models. They would then start removing parts to find cost reductions, one piece at a time until the VCR no longer worked. They would then put back the last part they removed.
Same with low tech products - The Weber grill you buy from Wallmart will be built of a lighter gauge steel and the paint will be inferior. It'll rust through in a year or two. A friend who owned a high-end gun shop said that many of the rifles they sell (do they still?) were factory seconds.

Cheers,
O-2
 
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jon.a

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Same with low tech products - The Weber grill you buy from Wallmart will be built of a lighter gauge steel and the paint will be inferior. It'll rust through in a year or two. A friend who owned a high-end gun shop said that many of the rifles they sell (do they still?) were factory seconds.

Cheers,
O-2
I thought about factory seconds, but that would have to be a whole lot of factory seconds.
 

Rawr

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My friend brought this to my attention a few years ago. I kept this in mind anytime I shopped there, and agreed with him. The older I get, the more I realize those on the bottom, or looking for cheapest deals, get the worse deal overall in life.
 

jon.a

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I thought about factory seconds, but that would have to be a whole lot of factory seconds.
I guess you could create a factory second by cutting corners.
 
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Bouncing Soul

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It probably isn't just Walmart.

My wife swears up and down that the Pampers baby diapers we buy at Target are not the same as the ones we buy from Babies-R-Us, even though they are in identical boxes and look exactly the same. She thinks they aren't as soft. She tried a Walmart box of Pampers, and that was the same quality as the Target one. It seems suspicious to me that companies will sell nearly identical looking products at different stores, that have different qualities.

Haven't noticed this, and those are the 3 places we buy them.

Wal-mart for sure gets lower quality guns with the same brand and model #, not as in seconds but cheaper furniture, surface finish etc. Big 5 does too.
 

Vigilante

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For anyone interested in learning more about how Walmart operates and affects the marketplace, I'd suggest The Wal-Mart Effect by Charles Fishman. Read it a few years ago and never looked at Walmart the same.

http://www.amazon.com/Wal-Mart-Effect-Powerful-Works---Transforming/dp/0143038788/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445537494&sr=8-1&keywords=the walmart effect

I have read it. There is some factual content, but it is a pretty jaded account of the downside. There's a whole lot of special interests that align against Wal-Mart (and Western culture in general). This book is a good read, but not from a neutral ideological standpoint.

The biography on Sam Walton called Made in America is also a decent read, more biased TOWARDS Wal-Mart.
 
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mayana

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My accounts from Wal-Mart admitted, in that meeting, at a senior level, that Wal-Mart just threw out the invoices that they didn't match with the first time the vendor sent them in.

Wow. It's very brazen that they would admit that, too.

That has probably changed now in light of Sarbanes Oxley.

Most definitely, even though I bet there are plenty of shenanigans they can still get up to. Lol.

For anyone interested in learning more about how Walmart operates and affects the marketplace, I'd suggest The Wal-Mart Effect by Charles Fishman. Read it a few years ago and never looked at Walmart the same.

I haven't read that book, but it seems like it might be a good read, especially for anyone who thinks they might sell a product in a retail chain. I would hope that it could provide some insight into the background on how Wal-Mart is run and how it has affected other companies (on all levels of the supply chain).

I have read it. There is some factual content, but it is a pretty jaded account of the downside. There's a whole lot of special interests that align against Wal-Mart (and Western culture in general).

I agree that perspective is really important. Whether Wal-Mart (and mass market-type retail in general) is a good or bad thing really depends on how you look at it. Probably, there is a net benefit to society in general (looking at it from an objective point of view - if that is even possible!).

I'm sure that others might disagree. Meanwhile, Wal-Mart continues to be the only place in town where I can buy certain things, so I'll be shopping there :)
 

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This is really interesting, are they allowed to sell something under the same exact name with the same exact packaging and have it be different/inferior to the same thing being sold elsewhere? Or are they slightly changing the "model" so that it's technically a new product? For example are the Bic Razors at Wal-Mart called "5200 Extreme" whereas the ones at Rite-Aid are called "5100 Superior" or something like that?
 

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Interesting discussion. I shop at a few different stores depending on the quality I want:

99 Cent store - some times they have excellent deals - closeouts, etc. I can find a lot of certain items that are cheaper than Walmart - Bandaids, for example, deoderant. Cheap toys for the kids - they get as much joy out of a 99 cent bouncy ball as they would out of a $59 piece of plastic at Toys R Us.

Walmart - great for generic pharmacy items - Children's Ibuprophen, etc. I bought one shirt there once. It was awful. I've never bought clothing there again

Costco - great for things where I want a higher quality - food, in particular. I'm not sure I trust Walmart food.

Amazon - Most everything else except when their prices are way over-priced.


Vendors may not like Walmart, but it adds to my quality of life because I get to spend the money I save there on other things.
 
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Vigilante

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This is really interesting, are they allowed to sell something under the same exact name with the same exact packaging and have it be different/inferior to the same thing being sold elsewhere? Or are they slightly changing the "model" so that it's technically a new product? For example are the Bic Razors at Wal-Mart called "5200 Extreme" whereas the ones at Rite-Aid are called "5100 Superior" or something like that?
Model number variants
 

Vigilante

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Vendors may not like Walmart, but it adds to my quality of life because I get to spend the money I save there on other things.

Perceived savings. They used to have a tagline called "the secret to living better"
 

OscarDeuce

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Perceived savings.
It's only a perception. My wife bought a pair of athletic socks there once. Literally unraveled during her first workout wearing them! A while ago, we bought my mother a fancy toaster. It worked for a week. Returned it for another. That one made it about four days. I remember the toaster my parents had when I was growing up. Got it when they got married. Lasted 40 years. Now, all it did was make toast, and I imagine back in the day it cost the equivalent of $50-$100 in today's money, but it lasted 40 years and still worked when the replaced it. They just wanted a new one. The ~$20 wall mart version lasted less than a week on average. Which one is the bargain?

Cheers,
O-2
 
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Jon L

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It's only a perception. My wife bought a pair of athletic socks there once. Literally unraveled during her first workout wearing them! A while ago, we bought my mother a fancy toaster. It worked for a week. Returned it for another. That one made it about four days. I remember the toaster my parents had when I was growing up. Got it when they got married. Lasted 40 years. Now, all it did was make toast, and I imagine back in the day it cost the equivalent of $50-$100 in today's money, but it lasted 40 years and still worked when the replaced it. They just wanted a new one. The ~$20 wall mart version lasted less than a week on average. Which one is the bargain?

Cheers,
O-2
There's a lot I won't buy there because I want quality. But, I haven't found a cheaper place for generic OTC drugs ... anywhere. Walgreens charges double what Walmart does for the same thing. Target is about 1.5x the price for their generic OTC drugs. Of course, I'm assuming that when Walmart labels something as Ibuprophen: 20mg/ml, that they're being honest. (I'm also assuming that they would have a major class-action lawsuit on their hands if they weren't.)

Clothing is AWFUL at Walmart. I would rather spend $15 for a shirt at Costco than $5 at Walmart. I only made that mistake once.

I also don't buy electronics there for the most part. Though, I did buy a $350 50" TV there a year ago that works great. Its not the same quality as a $1500 Costco model, but it was by-far better than the 36" tube TV it replaced.

I guess what I'm saying is that Walmart is one arrow in my quiver. When I use it appropriately, it hits the target I'm aiming for.
 

mws87

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Interesting thread, here. I always had a hunch there were wal mart "specific" versions of items when I used to buy a lot of electronics. Something had always seemed off about the one's they were selling. I guess the old saying rings true--you (usually) get what you pay for.
 

mws87

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Perceived savings.
Also, I feel like this ^ is worthy of an entire, separate thread. The perception of value and savings. I used to work for a super-sketchy car dealership--I'm talking Danny DeVito in Matilda shady--yet the place was always swamped with business. I couldn't believe it. Needless to say, it didn't take very long for me to realize you can usually sell anything when you're using the right word tracks to instill a perception of value... Anyway, just wanted to share that thought. /backtotopic
 
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Vigilante

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There's a lot I won't buy there because I want quality. But, I haven't found a cheaper place for generic OTC drugs ... anywhere. Walgreens charges double what Walmart does for the same thing. Target is about 1.5x the price for their generic OTC drugs. Of course, I'm assuming that when Walmart labels something as Ibuprophen: 20mg/ml, that they're being honest. (I'm also assuming that they would have a major class-action lawsuit on their hands if they weren't.

They get caught all the time. Every few months. Here's just one example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rt-walgreens-accused-of-selling-fake-herbals/
 

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This thread reminds me of Nordstrom Rack and Ross. A few years ago they were under fire because consumers expect that they were buying surplus clothing from reputable brands, but an investigation/inquiry revealed that the distributors were making inferior clothing and distributed them directly to the surplus stores. The clothing would come from different factories and was made with different materials than the clothing lines standard fare. If I can find the story I'll link it up.

Seems to match what other people are saying here about Walmart.
 

Jon L

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They get caught all the time. Every few months. Here's just one example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rt-walgreens-accused-of-selling-fake-herbals/
You're really anti-walmart huh :) (probably not so surprising given your experience there)

I did see that article a while back. But ... Ibuprofen is regulated by the FDA and herbal supplements aren't. I would be surprised if Walmart is selling bunk ibuprofen.
 
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Vigilante

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You're really anti-walmart huh :) (probably not so surprising given your experience there)

I did see that article a while back. But ... Ibuprofen is regulated by the FDA and herbal supplements aren't. I would be surprised if Walmart is selling bunk ibuprofen.

I am super PRO Wal-Mart. I shop there, worked there, and make money there.

They help a lot of people. They also employ a lot of people.

I just understand where their strengths and weaknesses are.
 

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I am super PRO Wal-Mart. I shop there, worked there, and make money there.

They help a lot of people. They also employ a lot of people.

I just understand where their strengths and weaknesses are.

The book you linked is great. Next time I went after reading it I asked the hunting dept if they had 28ga shells.

I had a cousin get lost in the mountains on a hike and a massive search ensued. Walmart sent, unsolicited, a 46' tractor trailer of supplies to support the effort. The most liberal Walmart haters in the family even had to admit it was amazing.
 

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