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RANT Stay In School It's Not A Waste Of Time!

Discussion in 'Education, Learning, Books' started by Roli, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Roli
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    Roli Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Unpopular opinion coming in 3...2...

    So the zeitgeist at the moment is that school is a waste of time, at least three times a week we see young people coming on here and they're all excited after reading Unscripted or The Millionaire Fastlane and they're like that's it, F*ck it, I quit! Then they come on here looking for support for their decision, well here's why they very rarely, if ever, get that support from me.

    School IS important.

    Why?

    Because the amount of people who do not have the ability to engage in reasoned thinking is growing at an exponential rate, we are living in a post truth era whereby the official narrative and experts are dismissed not because of what they are saying, but because of who they are.

    Don't get me wrong, officials lie, experts are wrong, but THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

    The point is quite simply this; today on planet earth, in our glorious system of Sol, there are millions, yes freaking millions! of people who believe that the earth is flat. There are millions of people that believe that vaccines are a government plot to give you autism. There are millions of people who believe we never went to the moon.

    Pause. Breathe.

    The point is not that these people believe these things, it is that they do not have the intellectual wherewithal to question their own beliefs.

    So why is this a problem?

    Well now we have got to a head where the freaking President of the United Freaking States of America believes that climate change is fake science and that noise causes cancer. He backs these statements up with the reassuring words, I know science.

    AND PEOPLE BELIEVE HIM!!!!!!!

    *Facepalm*

    Another pause.

    This is not a political post, I don't care what you think about Trump or any of the issues mentioned thus far.

    What I do care about, is the general inability of the mass populace to come to their own informed decisions via an Occam's inspired route paved with reason, logic and critical thinking... Because I'm telling you man, we are reaching a watershed moment whereby every opinion no matter how stupid is given equal footing with sensible ideas.

    If I say the earth is an orange, or the sun is a ball of ice, I don't need evidence, I just need a Youtube channel and a large moronic following who say shit like; "oh yeah, we are being lied to, you're so right dude, I see it now, the sun's a freaking ball of ice. F*cking NASA."

    I'm serious, the idiots are taking over the asylum. T. S. Elliot tried to warn us;

    this is the way the world ends
    this is the way the world ends
    this is the way the world ends
    not with a bang, with a whimper.

    Not the bang of thermonuclear warheads, with the whimper of stupidity . . .

    How long before these idiots halt and eventually reverse scientific progress?

    We are already seeing diseases that we were on the verge of eradicating, returning with a vengeance because of stupidity and superstition, what next; how long till we uninvent the wheel?

    So back to school.

    Literally.

    Sure school probably won't teach you how to be a whizz hot business person, it won't make you rich by going to school. Hell that marketing degree probably won't even get you a half decent marketing job, let alone set you up to run your own company.

    What it will do is (hopefully) give you a blueprint for reasoned thinking, which in turn will help you come to your own conclusions as to whether the earth is round, climate change exists, or chemtrails are real.

    Maybe school isn't enough, although they are all different and are located all over the globe, so using the word school is probably woefully inadequate when trying to cover the varying spectrum of institutions that carry that particular moniker. However it's all we've got...

    Hey, do what you want, however my child is being taught the importance of education, because quite frankly I don't want her to grow up a simpering idiot who believes any old pseudo science bs being spouted by some dreadlock-wearing-skunk-smoking waster who believes they have uncovered an intricate chemtrail-flouride-Rothchilds inspired conspiracy on Google.

    My child will be armed with the basic cognitive abilities that will allow her to question her own beliefs in such a way that will enable her to come up with the right answers and also, crucially, the right questions.

    She will understand what evidence is and how to view and analyse it. She may not turn out to do a STEM subject in University, she may not even go, however she will be somebody who understands that reason and logic can create informed thinking.

    ...and that dear friends, is what I wish for the world.

    So yeah, don't be an idiot, stay in school kids.

    Rant over.
     
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  2. G-Man
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    G-Man Legendary Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    @Roli agree with you about education, we could have an entire different argument about whether school is the place where that happens, but for the above statement, I think you're correct to be concerned, but wrong that it's a watershed moment.

    Human society has never functioned on logic, reason and critical thinking, because humans don't function on those things. Even very smart humans. Stupid ideas have always had equal footing with good ones, and there's never been anything common about sense.

    Also, I think large social ideas like climate change are a bad barometer, because is politics, the thing being debated is never the thing that's actually being debated. Very few people truly believe there's no harm done by putting a bunch of car exhaust in the air. Here's what's actually happening:
    • Guy suggests putting all this poisonous stuff in the air for a century is indeed bad and needs to be controlled.
    • I don't trust said guy, because I know that even without climate change he wants to use the state to control the economy and other aspects of social life. He's pretexting.
    • Now that I think about it, scientists are just people, and without an existential threat it's probably hard to get large amounts of research funding for a long period of time.
    • I'm not a scientist, I can't parse through all this, but now I don't really trust the authority figure.
    • Does it really matter? Putting a shitload of poison in the air can't be a good idea. Don't really need a dude in a lab coat to tell me that.
    • If I acknowledge the problem, but don't want to let said communist use it as a reason to control me, then I'll have to propose an alternative solution.
    • That sounds really hard.
    • Therefore, climate change is fake.

    The climate change "debate" explained. Someone should make a cartoon panel.
     
  3. Connor_Motivasis
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    This is a great rant. It brings up a lot of cool points that I hadn't considered.

    In terms of college, jt seems that if you're smart about your education and don't get into massive debt for it (ie go to community college for prerecs and try to get scholarships) than the process of sticking with college gives you a good foundation for sticking with difficult tasks. Not to say college is the only method, but it's percieved importence is a good motivator to stick with it.
     
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  4. Ecom man
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    Ecom man Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    IMO the problem is that school (assuming your speaking of college) is no longer about learning or even questioning beliefs. Colleges are filled with teachers who are believe and teach the same way and if someone believes or teaches different then they are called names or not allowed on campus at all.

    That isn’t learning... it is just 4 years to get a piece of paper that means nothing in the current economy unless you are going for a specific reason (doctor, lawyer, etc.).

    In regards to people believing conspiracy theories of course you will always have people who believe weird crap. These people who believe the earth is flat won’t stop believing it just because they partied in a college for 4 years. You can’t teach stupid out of someone.

    In regards to climate change, global warming, global cooling, etc. I would say the issue is that is has been yelled that the world is ending since the 70’s. Almost 50 years later none of the predictions have been even close to accurate to why wouldn’t there be people who deny its existence?

    That’s especially true when the person who has been one of the biggest mouthpieces for climate change (Al Gore) went from being worth 2 million in 2000 to being worth 200 million. It just looks like someone peddling the same thing that has been peddled since the 70s to try and increase his personal fortune.

    It looks especially hypocritical when you look at the way he lives. Using 12-20x the average American household in electricity for his lavish estate doesn’t exactly help his case that he is actually concerned about climate change enough to even change the way he personally lives.

    Now back to the college topic, far too often we use blanket statements in life. Everyone should do this or shouldn’t do that. Life is far more complicated than that.

    I personally think that a huge chunk of the country should not go to college. All they are doing is wasting 4 years of their life on a degree that will be worthless to them in the future. Instead they should go to a technical school and learn a real trade instead of getting a worthless degree. That being said that also is a blanket statement and doesn’t apply to everyone and every situation. Saying everyone should go to college and everyone shouldn’t go to college are both patently wrong statements.
     
  5. The-J
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    The problem isn't a lack of education, the problem is the belief that fuzzy thinking and anecdotal evidence should supercede logic when logic is too complicated to follow.

    It's not limited to the right. Or the left. Or the center. It's not limited to dumb people, either. Every single intelligent person I've met has at least one irrational opinion or believes in something that would be considered fringe or strange. This is regardless of political affiliation. It's a human thing, because our attention is limited and so are our cognitive faculties.

    In the context of entrepreneurship, one of the key elements to getting it right is to believe something, and act on that belief, when very few others believe it... and be right about it. So, in a sense, fringe thinking, unpopular beliefs, and uncommon conclusions can lead to great success in entrepreneurship and wild innovation that changes the world.

    It's actually a tough dichotomy, because fuzzy thinking and clear thinking can lead to the same conclusions, no matter whether the conclusions are right or wrong. It depends on what assumptions people start with, and how they arrive at the conclusion.
     
  6. MJ DeMarco
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    I'd argue that school does the opposite, it doesn't teach you REASONED THINKING, it teaches you to memorize, recite, and regurgitate. That's what drones do.

    Guess it depends on the school, but I'd bet that any state-run institution is NOT teaching students how to critically think. It's teaching them to think within the box of convention and normality.

    27rpj5.jpg

    a17laucjz77z.jpg

    That's great, hope it applies to religion as well.

    A lot of parents want their children to be thinkers, except when it comes to religion.

    Nothing wrong with following a particular religion, but I believe you should do so ONLY after you have thoroughly analyzed all worldly theologies and their origins (as well as science, history and pre-history) and then decide. Truth is most parents don't allow their children to do so-- it's X religion because, well, that's what I was taught and we just happen to be living in an area where it's quite common!
     
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  7. Roli
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    Roli Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    That may be true, as I was ranting I was thinking about education standards. However I was thinking about basic schooling, it seems even that is being denigrated at the moment.

    Science evolves, computers get more powerful, and nobody ever said the world would end. The mantra has always been rising sea levels, extreme weather, and a runaway greenhouse effect. Which is happening.

    I can see how that could effect people's thinking. However it shouldn't, what one individual does or how much they make is of zero consequence to the environment. Also how do we know that's how he made his money? More likely, like every ex-president or high-up politician, he used a mixture of privilege, inside information, contacts and good old fashioned work to make that money.

    Again, being a hypocrite doesn't make him wrong.

    So true, however I feel if education was better, and people understood that they can use it to create a strong thinking mind, this problem would pall into insignificance.

    They can lead to the same conclusions, however it is more about being prepared to revisit your beliefs in the face of insurmountable evidence, which too few people are prepared to do.
     
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  8. Roli
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    Roli Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I guess it depends on the school, whilst I learned to memorise, I also learned to reason, which of course is an ongoing process.

    Absolutely! Religion is the main way that the human race is manipulated and I constantly speak to her about this. I tell her not to believe in outrageous claims without extraordinary evidence, and I am schooling her in how to discern evidence from BS.
     
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  9. G-Man
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    Not speaking of religion, but not all indoctrination is bad. Without inherited knowledge, civilization wouldn’t be possible. Every generation would have to re-invent the wheel. You simply don’t have the headspace to investigate everything. Some things unfortunately have to be taken on authority.

    Even with religion, you don’t have enough years in a lifetime to investigate every belief system out there, and you would end up spending your whole life pointlessly navel-gazing. Our ancestors knew this. There’s even an obscure religious text that says something to the effect of “always learning and never coming to knowledge of the truth”

    EDIT: I would argue that because of this almost all people, including the super smart ones on this forum, take more of their core beliefs about the nature of reality from authority than otherwise. Even beliefs based on science are taken on the authority of the scientist unless you wanna spend your whole life trying to replicate the experiments of others. The academy is the really just the church, mosque, temple, and ashram of the modern world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  10. ZF Lee
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    Worried that it would be another 'hate college' thread, but some points here are actually quite good.

    Whut? Against Forum rules? Naw...

    UNSCRIPTED core values.

    I realised that as well.

    No religion ever grows into a vacuum. People of different races have always worked and fought with each other, so it is inevitable that they may also share the same problems, concerns and even some solutions.

    In fact, if you try to read any holy text with EMPATHY, working to make sense of what pain drove him/her to do this, or whether you can assume he/she really were a criminal, what you read somehow changes.

    I was listening to a sermon by a Bible expert in the Jewish culture, and let's say that if you don't know how the Jews worshipped, welcomed guests, dealt with civil conflicts, lived, 90% of the NT will look like a shitshow.

    I could go on about how the Holy Writ were done in the context of helping folks to thrive in warring eras, especially for Islam...but let's not go there....
     
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  11. Johnny boy
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    You’re talking about people with an IQ of 80.

    Walmart shoppers.

    Do you have an IQ of 80? I hope not.

    Don’t go back to school. It’s a step up for the Walmart shoppers. Not for us. School is a scam and a factory for indoctrination. Run away from it as fast as you can.

    My local school invited me to speak and I laughed and said “of course”. I got to tell about 200 kids that school was a waste. If they want an awesome life they should not go to college and instead start a business and instead of reading fiction novels or school books they should read business books. It was the greatest thing. I’m surprised I wasn’t interrupted and told to leave.

    I had asked the students what they wanted to do and someone mentioned opening a bakery and I asked them what they needed to do in order to make that happen and they said “go to school”... really? Go to school?
     
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  12. MJ DeMarco
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    Classic example of identifying problems (people can't think critically!) but potentially misidentifying the solution (go to school!)

    Is there a widespread trend of young adults who are dropping out of high school and college? And now we have this problem? Or is "school" as popular as it ever has been?

    What if school is actually the problem which you cite as the solution?

    IMO, school is NOT the answer, but parenting (as you have demonstrated).
     
  13. Valhalla
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    I think you did those kids a disservice. You just hammered another indoctrination into them, saying think like me, not like them. How about encouraging them to think for themselves? Instead you more or less ridiculed them. It's embarrassing.
     
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    The interesting thing is that beliefs are binary. They are either right or wrong.

    It doesn't matter how stupid the belief is or how much critical thinking is behind it, it can still be wrong.

    Im not worried about people believing obviously stupid stuff because they're stupid.

    The scary thing about beliefs are those backed by supposed "reason" and "logic".

    Think about what caused the last two world wars. Think about how dictators come to power.

    Our education system is suffering from this dilemma. We mix a good thing "education" with other variables that people don't pay attention to. People go "Education is always a good thing"!. Umm no, not if you mix it in with colleges that are only interested in building a bigger school, rankings, college football, raising tuition and building more useless buildings. Not in handing out career valuable diplomas. It has become a giant racket and scam. Not too long ago some parents got caught paying bribes upwards of $500k! just so their kid can get into an elite school.

    The most dangerous beliefs are those backed by pathos(emotions), logos(logic) and ethos(ethical). It's the number one cause of disputes.

    Tell some people that college is a scam. They get pissed. "No it isn't, this and that,!"
     
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  15. raden1
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    I worked for a plumber who was in woes about how illogical people were.

    Yet he complained about being broke, while he drank and smoke. And he complained that big businesses were polluting the Earth while he threw cigarette butts out the window. He is also the angriest person I've ever met.

    Of course, he is very logical in his mind.

    Additionally, many solutions to personal problems tend to be simple. They don't require Einstein levels of logic.

    It's just people are so emotionally F*cked it's hard for them to carry stuff out. That's why this forum is constantly pushing the cliched phrase of "take action." I don't see how an additional 4 years of schooling is going to help.

    Logic is a very small part of life that's blown way out of proportion. It's almost like a fetish for some people to just think all day. When you get down to it, there's nothing logical about consciousness, existence or death. We're floating on a rock in space that came from nothing and that's weird.

    And, I have an Associates of Science. It hasn't done anything for me. And I mean nothing.

    I have made a tiny amount of money doing a shit job at copywriting and freelancing.

    I've made $0 from my degree.

    And the problem with conspiracy theories is if one turns out to be true, then that opens the floodgates and every conspiracy theory could be true.

    IMO, teaching people to have self-respect and how to take care of themselves physically and emotionally are infinitely more important than teaching them how to "critically think." Because it's almost impossible to act logically or learn anything if your emotions are a mess.
     
  16. PizzaOnTheRoof
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    Most of the population should probably go to school.....but the entire reason we're on this forum is that we don't want to be like most of the population. We're kowingly taking a different path.

    My sister is an anti-vaxer, yet she's in school working on a B.S. degree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Maybe school isn't the problem/solution?
     
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    Very true, reminds me of Carl's epic take...



    Solid parenting so the child can recognize agenda over fact, education over indoctrination.

    It's hard to politicize or agendacize a skill like computer science, engineering or mathematics.
     
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    This is an important topic! I have also been talking about this a lot in my videos of reading and analyzing Napoleon Hill's work "Think and Grow Rich" and "The Law of Success in 16 Lessons." He often mentions how Carnegie, Ford, Edison, and so many other brilliant and successful businessmen and women didn't finish "formal school"... back in the late 1800's/early 1900's!

    But less than 5% of people went to college those days! Today over 30% of people have bachelors degrees.

    Most people jumped straight into the workforce back then, and some from the age of under 10 and learned great trades from early on! That simply is not the case today. It is possible to start working from age 10, but times have changed, and I think some of those ideas carried over into many "expert" philosophies. However, we also need to realize most "experts" tout not going into college debt, not so much that education is bad.

    Fortunately, Napoleon Hill does differentiate between education and formal education, and you can get a regular education that will help you go far without formal school.

    Although I believe people can succeed and become wealthy (especially in America) without extraordinary intellect designed and multiple graduate degrees, I think staying in school is a basic need. There can be flaws in the thinking that people who drop out are suddenly going to spring into action and become business masterminds like Ford, Edison, Zuckerberg, or Jobs, or whatever other expert talks about "not needing college."

    I'm with you that education is important. Plus every rich successful person is sending their kids to school, and it's not like Jobs and Gates dropped out of a Community College... They were smart enough to get in the most prestigious schools in the world.

    Also, there may also be people who want to help the masses: 70%+ of the USA and beyond that have not gone to college - and don't currently have the resources to go. And some people who just want others to sign up for their "online courses." Gotta pick the right people to follow.

    Or I could just be trying to justify my expenses... (some unbiased thinking for ya)
     
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    I have mixed feelings on some of these topics.

    Conspiracies: I don't know what to believe anymore. There is tons of contradicting information out there. Knowing truth requires wisdom.

    School: I did engineering. I met some great people who influenced my life greatly. I could probably have done the same if I had not chosen to go to the university and would have saved me 30k+ worth of student loans and six years. A lot of what I learned in school quickly became irrelevant in my life. I do ecommerce these days... Because testing aircraft applications was slowly killing me.

    There is a lot of courses out there which are free. From MIT, Harvard, Georgia Tech, Standford. Anyone willing to get an education can do it without having to go into backbreaking debt. Is all free online.

    However. The system. The school system was created and made to benefit the big corporations that need wage slaves to profit from. Some of those huge corporations are government contractors which receive money out of thin air. Our blood. Sweat and tears is what gives fiat currencies any value. I'm a slave of the system and I know it.

    PAID education is a scam that could be very rewarding to those who can climb the corporate ladder. To have a chance to climb the ladder you need that piece of paper.
     
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  20. TheCj
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    I believe that is more to surround their kids with other successful families, going to school and becoming friends/networking with the presidents daughter or a senators son etc.. Will only help later in life.

    The only reason's i can see for school is if it will actually lead you to a job you want lawyer, doctor, dentist, engineer etc.. Also opens up relocating world wide. The latter can also be achieved with a lot of money.

    The school system was basically created and modeled to create factory workers. Come in at a set time do work at your station, have lunch at set time and leave at a set time. Do what your told, don't make mistakes etc..

    The real irony is when I see business owners not influence there kids to start/experiment there own businesses as young adults etc.. Not sure why that is. Do see more super wealthy parents doing this with Kardashians, Will Smith etc.. having there kids trying more self employed ventures.

    Of course the other irony is, you can be someone that does not even get accepted for a program to become licensed in something. Yet if you have the money you can open up your own firm, business etc.. and have licensed people work and take direction from you. Koenigsegg founder comes to mind here among others.

    Then there is thought of where is the become a millionaire college class? Or retire in your 20's-30's class?

    The group think is getting worse because people feel more entitled than ever. A life of everything will be ok if you are mediocre and "you deserve", is making it worse for everyone. This mentality started in schools first i think. School's run by people who have only lived and worked in the school system isn't helping that mentality in my opinion.

    The best thing about school is you can see the "system" in full effect.
     
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  21. mindsetferg
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    mindsetferg New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER

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    Just for discussion, not because I think you are right or wrong, I'm just curious to learn more about it...

    I hear that argument about education a lot, namely that "school was created and modeled to create factory workers." And it was even popularized by a few gurus and YouTube videos. Yet I don't really know whether it is based on truth or conspiracy theory...

    Where exactly is the evidence of that today?

    Yet from my understanding of history (without any research), I imagine the kids who could NOT afford to go to school (because they had to work to provide for family) were the ones working in factories, not the kids in school.

    Furthermore, if school was designed for factories (or still is designed for factories), why is there such a variety of degrees?
     
  22. TheCj
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    TheCj Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    By school i'm talking elementary and high school as well, so going from a farming family or family service business (butcher etc..) to a school preparing people to work in a more rigid factory or office environment. Can google it and get an idea of where it came from.

    Another one you might not know about is Henry Ford creating/popularizing the 5 day 40hr work week along similar lines of today's norms being created for other reason's than one would think.

    The variety of degree's is for the school to make revenue not provide education that will lead to job's. There are school's with star trek or star wars courses I kid you not..
     
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  23. mindsetferg
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    mindsetferg New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER

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    I took a circus class in college. (Although I will admit it was a wonderful experience)
     
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    Silverfox148 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    Interesting topic, it's good it's being discussed here.

    It's ironic but as MJ stated , school itself may be the problem. If you stop and take some time to observe and think critically about what really goes in the school system past 5th grade you might not like what you see, and it may be too painful for you to accept, so you shut yourself down to the idea.

    My son goes to one the "best" school systems in the state and while yes they are up there on the standardized scores. Education is the last thing being taught in those schools, there is so much dogma and bullshit and very very little room for true thinking and questioning, it's become no different than religion. School is actually hurting these kids more than it is helping them past the 5th grade. Most will think this is crazy but that's the dogma kicking in, no different than religion, it's just the religion of school.

    Couple of Points:
    - Education is great, but there is no reason why education needs to happen inside of a school, education can and should happen anywhere, the best education is hands on education.

    -The idea of school graduation is itself a problem, because you never truly graduate from anything, you have keep learning and educating yourself your entire life yet school graduation gives the impression you are done. I laugh when people who already are employed with a bachelors degree go for their "masters" , it's just the programming kicking in, they associate learning/education with a school and must therefore go back. Crazy good programming.

    -The idea/impression that a majority of teachers even truly care enough about their students to actually educate somebody.This one is one most do not think about, but it is vitally important. To actually educate a child much less one that can critically think is incredibly hard and requires a ton of effort/hours, it is simply impossible for any teacher to truly educate more than 1 or 2 students deeply out of a class of 20. I don't blame them for this at all because most don't even expend this effort for their own kids much less that of others. My son is 7 years old and I have spent hundreds of hours on his physical/emotional/educational/spiritual development to date, over and over and over. He has weekly goals that roll up into quarterly goals that roll up into yearly goals, every week he holds himself accountable at our weekly meetings on Sundays. Do you have any idea of the dedication required to accomplish this at such a young age, no teacher should/can/will provide this for a child?

    Y'all gotta wake up with regards to schooling and the results they are giving, it's not about getting a job, it's about fulfilling your potential as an individual, that's the last thing schools are teaching.
     
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  25. Xeon
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    Xeon All Cars Kneel Before Pagani. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Religious niche seems to be a great idea. Haven't really heard of shops selling religious products / items closing down. Few if any. In recessions or poor economical times and people are desperate, I believe sales actually goes up.
     
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