Starting a pizza / pizzeria business, talk me out of it

[polaroid22]

Hi guys,

I worked in IT all my life, and quite fed up with it after 17 years. I have a problem with authority, and also fed up with the IT work itself. I have a videography side hustle for over 10 years now. But the clients are sometimes quite the nightmare, also hard to find new clients and the market is quite oversaturated, while I do enjoy this more then my main job. I don't think it's a career I will pursue any longer.

So the last couple of years I have read a bunch of books about investing, finance, fastlane, marketing, sales, ... You know the usual action faking. And I have tried to grow a youtube channel, but after a year of consistent posting it really never took off, so I had to shelve it. Now 6 months ago or something I bought an outdoor pizza oven, and have developed a passion for making pizza dough and baking pizza's. So I am thinking about starting a napoleatan pizzaria. I know, I know it's not a fastlane path.

Positives:
- My own boss
- I like making pizza's (allthough it could change doing it everyday)
- I could do the marketing myself and also be creative.

Negatives:
- Not quite sure how much the average pizzaria in Belgium actually makes.
- The hours, they would be mostly from 15:00 - 24:00. Which would have an impact on my family life (wife + 2 small kids).

So yeah try to talk me out of it. As I don't see any other path in front of me right now. (Or I need a mentor)

Thanks

 

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[Private Witt]

Is your pizza awesome? Do people love it? Do you have restaurant experience? Have you worked on a business plan with analyzing the numbers. Are you potentially ready to just buy yourself a job? How are the pizza places in your area? What kind of customers are out there? What would stop you from scaling if your pizza was epic?

There are tons of questions to ask, Id just make a much bigger pros/cons list to start.

 

[Bence Ur]

So I am thinking about starting a napoleatan pizzaria. I know, I know it's not a fastlane path.

The Unscripted book says specifically that starting a restaurant is not Fastlane initially, but via franchising it's fastlane.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I know it's not a fastlane path.

Not necessarily true. Pizza has pretty large margins and it can be made Fastlane via franchising and adequate management. If you have 10 pizzerias around Belgium with a great product, I repeat, a great product, I imagine you'd do well.

But yes, for most people you are creating yourself a job, and it something is you should be careful about.

 

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[Shono]

I like making pizza's (allthough it could change doing it everyday)

This should be the last reason. Also read the first few chapters of E-myth revisited.

 

[polaroid22]

This should be the last reason. Also read the first few chapters of E-myth revisited.

Yeah I should reread it, and I am not solving a huge problem in my area, lots of competition, not in napoleatan pizza though. Most are Roman or NY style pizza. So that's something that would stick out a bit. Visited some of the top 15 pizzaria's in Europe (2 are in Belgium). And at this stage, I can't say I have them beat yet. So still work in progress, I would like to have an exceptional product compared to most pizzaria's.

Not necessarily true. Pizza has pretty large margins and it can be made Fastlane via franchising and adequate management. If you have 10 pizzerias around Belgium with a great product, I repeat, a great product, I imagine you'd do well.

But yes, for most people you are creating yourself a job, and it something is you should be careful about.

Yes I thought already about the scaling part, and ideally I would like to own multiple pizzaria's, I would like to win some prizes and take the first place in Belgium first. And offcourse location is very important, I have my eye on 2 properties, but neither are for sale or rent. So I might be better to start it as a side hustle from my own house in the weekends.
And I am very aware I am probably buying a job, but at this point I think it is better to buy a job, and be my own boss then to deal with the daily shit I have to put up with at work.

Is your pizza awesome? Do people love it? Do you have restaurant experience? Have you worked on a business plan with analyzing the numbers. Are you potentially ready to just buy yourself a job? How are the pizza places in your area? What kind of customers are out there? What would stop you from scaling if your pizza was epic?

There are tons of questions to ask, Id just make a much bigger pros/cons list to start.

I don't have restaurant experience though, have not made an business plan yet, I guess chatgpt can help me set this up. Not sure though. I am doing napoleatan pizza, which I think I might need to educate the customer for whats this pizza is all about. Not crispy like ny style pizza, but soft/flexible, wet toppings that preferable is eaten with knife and fork or by folding the pizza slice. Friends who have tasted it said it is restaurant quality, but my inlaws and parents prefer dried out crispy pizza's for example. To each their own I guess, but this part I could channel a bit through online advertising.

 

[biophase]

Yeah I should reread it, and I am not solving a huge problem in my area, lots of competition, not in napoleatan pizza though. Most are Roman or NY style pizza. So that's something that would stick out a bit. Visited some of the top 15 pizzaria's in Europe (2 are in Belgium). And at this stage, I can't say I have them beat yet. So still work in progress, I would like to have an exceptional product compared to most pizzaria's.

Yes I thought already about the scaling part, and ideally I would like to own multiple pizzaria's, I would like to win some prizes and take the first place in Belgium first. And offcourse location is very important, I have my eye on 2 properties, but neither are for sale or rent. So I might be better to start it as a side hustle from my own house in the weekends.
And I am very aware I am probably buying a job, but at this point I think it is better to buy a job, and be my own boss then to deal with the daily shit I have to put up with at work.

I don't have restaurant experience though, have not made a business plan yet, I guess chatgpt can help me set this up. Not sure though. I am doing napoleatan pizza, which I think I might need to educate the customer for whats this pizza is all about. Not crispy like ny style pizza, but soft/flexible, wet toppings that preferable is eaten with knife and fork or by folding the pizza slice. Friends who have tasted it said it is restaurant quality, but my inlaws and parents prefer dried out crispy pizza's for example. To each their own I guess, but this part I could channel a bit through online advertising.

I would keep baking at home until you got a good pizza that everyone agrees is really good.

 

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[RicardoGrande]

Just my 2 cents, but I saw a LOT of people quit their jobs in 21-22 and try to make a food truck work and it seems to be a rather good little hustle-cum-business.
The guy that runs the sketchy-@ss coffee van near me said he didn't expect to make it past 2 months but he replaced his dayjob income (had a master's degree) within the first 10 months and working only about 5-6 days a week, 6am-12am.

 

[Johnny boy]

You do not have any information that will show you if this is a good business or a bad business.

It’s like asking “is a string long?”

It can be.

It could be short.

What’s your definition?

It entirely depends.

You have NO idea.

The second you grow this business into anything larger than YOU making the pizzas, it will instantly have nothing to do with what you like to do anymore.

Here’s what it will be:
Marketing
Management
SOP’s
Inventory systems
Advertising
Promotions
Organizational structure
Filing reports
Paying taxes
Phone systems
POS systems
Online ordering systems
Crm’s
Retargeting
Training
Insurance
Design
Websites
SEO
Reputation management
Payroll
Bookkeeping
Cash flow management

And much more.

Do you like THAT stuff?

I like systems and automations. It’s my favorite part of the business, I do it for other peoples businesses I like it so much. So I’m right at home running a business. But I do NOT like the work the employees do. And that’s fine, but liking pizza making is not running a pizza business. Better to make money any way and then enjoy making pizzas with your family and for the neighbors all day because you don’t have to work for your money anymore.

 

[Kak]

I know, I know it's not a fastlane path.

This is the most misconstrued concept on the forum...

I have seen people talking other members out of traditional money making businesses and into freelancing here "bEcAusE fAsTlaNe."

By my estimations 60%+ here have read MJ's book only to completely take him out of context and determine he must mean everyone should be freelance, side gig, social media influencer wannabes, crypto buyers, and MLMers.

A pizzeria is a real business and could be a lot of fun. It can also be scalable. Papa John is a billionaire. There are a ton of multi multi millionaire restaurateurs in the world. I know a guy who has an awesome restaurant business. He has a bunch of small town burger joints.

I would bet money that the guy that owns our local pizza shack (which happens to be a lot nicer and bigger than the implied shack) makes more money than 90%+ of forum members.

I wouldn't personally enter the industry without a large expectation to grow beyond a single location, but make no mistake, it absolutely can, and is, a real business.

Don't base your decision on assumption. Minimize assumptions as much as you can.

 

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[socaldude]

I’m looking at the pizza ovens at webstaurantstore.com and they have a lot of different ones.

 

[Akaushra]

Maybe build an internet following? Post to TikTok and Insta, read some books about branding, and make the kind of pizza that could sit in a Ferrari and look awesome. The caviar of pizza. See where I'm getting at? Then sell your pizzas online, after a following has been built, in your city only to slowly fund the restaurant.

Kind of a brain dump so do what you will with it.

 

[polaroid22]

I would keep baking at home until you got a good pizza that everyone agrees is really good.

Yeah everyone agrees it is good, and I am surely still improving my pizza game. But in this case I think its more like a "Luikse wafle vs Bruxelles wafle" to each their own. Nothing wrong with either, but you can still have your preference. But offcourse it is my goal to make a pizza so great, it will convert my inlaws.

 

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[jclean]

I used to deliver soft drinks and water to a large pizza restaurant. In belgium. This company has 50 employees and has between 500 and 700k profit every year.

Located in a prime location, high volume of tourists.
Can command big discounts from suppliers ( a full truck of beverages just for them sometimes 2x a week )

Pizzas are good but not fantastic.
Beverages are expensive.

Most important thing in this story is volume

 

[polaroid22]

I used to deliver soft drinks and water to a large pizza restaurant. In belgium. This company has 50 employees and has between 500 and 700k profit every year.

Located in a prime location, high volume of tourists.
Can command big discounts from suppliers ( a full truck of beverages just for them sometimes 2x a week )

Pizzas are good but not fantastic.
Beverages are expensive.

Most important thing in this story is volume

Yeah where I live there are no tourists. So I aiming for repeat business. Therefore I need to beat all the competition in the area quality wise. And when starting out, I am aiming for takeout, when business is good I can expand to a an eating area.

I was also thinking about selling wine for takeout, or people waiting on their pizza. I always drink wine when eating pizza, I figure a lot of people do.

 

[jclean]

Yeah where I live there are no tourists. So I aiming for repeat business. Therefore I need to beat all the competition in the area quality wise. And when starting out, I am aiming for takeout, when business is good I can expand to a an eating area.

I was also thinking about selling wine for takeout, or people waiting on their pizza. I always drink wine when eating pizza, I figure a lot of people do.

Were do you live ? Starting a pizza restaurant will teach you a lot. Go for it

 

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[PapaGang]

Not necessarily true. Pizza has pretty large margins and it can be made Fastlane via franchising and adequate management. If you have 10 pizzerias around Belgium with a great product, I repeat, a great product, I imagine you'd do well.

But yes, for most people you are creating yourself a job, and it something is you should be careful about.

@polaroid22 I worked for a family that owns and operates an Italian deli & grocery. Been in business over 75 years. They are sitting on a pile of gold, they love what they do, and they have become pillars of the community.

They are small, they are niche, but they MAKE MONEY.

The food business is rough, but after witnessing their drive, passion, integrity and frugality, I have a lot of respect for them. And they are wealthy in many of the metrics that aren't measured.

Also, @Johnny boy is correct in that there are many fires you have to put out behind the scenes, but don't let that scare you off. You DO have to love it, because you will be awakened at 4 am because the alarm for the walk-in cooler will go off, people will call in sick, your sewer will back up, you will have to pay a lot for that leaking roof. But one of the biggest problems we have as people is thinking we shouldn't have any. If you can fall in love with it, all that other sh*t is totally endurable. Because someone will be walking into your joint in the next 5 minutes to order another pie.

I've witnessed the owner deal with every sort of disaster you can think of over the 5 years I was with him, but he still takes time to walk the floor, where inevitably someone comes up to tell him how much they love his store and what he's done. He loves the sh*t out of that.

Everyone loves Italian.
Pizza ftw.

 

[monnffffiiiiiii]

I'm from Belgium too, where are you based?

IMO the biggest problem is taxes. Can be solvable if you hire students/earn in cash.

Kebabs in Brussels are making monstrous amounts of "tax-free" cash that they reinvest in Dubai, but it's quite risky.

Edit: I'll guess Antwerp.

 

[StrikingViper69]

Yeah where I live there are no tourists. So I aiming for repeat business. Therefore I need to beat all the competition in the area quality wise. And when starting out, I am aiming for takeout, when business is good I can expand to a an eating area.

I was also thinking about selling wine for takeout, or people waiting on their pizza. I always drink wine when eating pizza, I figure a lot of people do.

Your pizza could be a lead magnet for the wine

But yeah the wine is probably an easy way to bump those margins.

Once you have everything else figured out

 

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[NervesOfSteel]

If you really really really want the following to be your daily routine :

But the clients are sometimes quite the nightmare, also hard to find new clients and the market is quite oversaturated

And you're adamant to sacrifice the following:

The hours, they would be mostly from 15:00 - 24:00. Which would have an impact on my family life (wife + 2 small kids).

Then no one can do the following:

So yeah try to talk me out of it.

 

[NervesOfSteel]

You DO have to love it, because you will be awakened at 4 am because the alarm for the walk-in cooler will go off, people will call in sick, your sewer will back up, you will have to pay a lot for that leaking roof. But one of the biggest problems we have as people is thinking we shouldn't have any. If you can fall in love with it, all that other sh*t is totally endurable.

Ha Ha, its so relatable. Yesterday, I had to stay late at my factory and today at 4 A.M., I was on the floor. The order we have been working on for past 2 weeks is to be delivered by coming Monday and 2 out of 3 foremen called in sick!

It was a great day to get my hands dirty and shirt greasy and now I smell like money .. because we're ahead of our schedule!

 

[polaroid22]

I'm from Belgium too, where are you based?

IMO the biggest problem is taxes. Can be solvable if you hire students/earn in cash.

Kebabs in Brussels are making monstrous amounts of "tax-free" cash that they reinvest in Dubai, but it's quite risky.

Edit: I'll guess Antwerp.

Limburg, so pretty small town compared to Antwerp, Brussels, Gent, Leuven or Hassselt.

 

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[PapaGang]

Ha Ha, its so relatable. Yesterday, I had to stay late at my factory and today at 4 A.M., I was on the floor. The order we have been working on for past 2 weeks is to be delivered by coming Monday and 2 out of 3 foremen called in sick!

It was a great day to get my hands dirty and shirt greasy and now I smell like money .. because we're ahead of our schedule!

Right! I wonder if anyone realizes that one of the factors why some people make so much money is because they are willing to do things others won't.

Simple as that.

Hats off to you. Respect.

 

[Jrjohnny]

Hi guys,

I worked in IT all my life, and quite fed up with it after 17 years. I have a problem with authority, and also fed up with the IT work itself. I have a videography side hustle for over 10 years now. But the clients are sometimes quite the nightmare, also hard to find new clients and the market is quite oversaturated, while I do enjoy this more then my main job. I don't think it's a career I will pursue any longer.

So the last couple of years I have read a bunch of books about investing, finance, fastlane, marketing, sales, ... You know the usual action faking. And I have tried to grow a youtube channel, but after a year of consistent posting it really never took off, so I had to shelve it. Now 6 months ago or something I bought an outdoor pizza oven, and have developed a passion for making pizza dough and baking pizza's. So I am thinking about starting a napoleatan pizzaria. I know, I know it's not a fastlane path.

Positives:
- My own boss
- I like making pizza's (allthough it could change doing it everyday)
- I could do the marketing myself and also be creative.

Negatives:
- Not quite sure how much the average pizzaria in Belgium actually makes.
- The hours, they would be mostly from 15:00 - 24:00. Which would have an impact on my family life (wife + 2 small kids).

So yeah try to talk me out of it. As I don't see any other path in front of me right now. (Or I need a mentor)

Thanks

I think it might be a good idea if your pizza tastes good.

It could be fastlane for many reasons.

You can franchise, build a brand, sell other products (frozen pizza, healthier pizza, pizza crust, cheese, toppings, special spices, and many more)

Wish you the best and I’m ready to see a Polaroid22 pizza shop down the street!

 

[monnffffiiiiiii]

I have a friend who owns a pizzeria so I went to ask him some questions.

The lowest minimum average is 120 pizzas per day, 6 days a week (they make 250 per day on the weekend but let's be conservative with the calculations).

That's 37 440 pizzas per year.

Admitting that 1 pizza = 1 customer and that the average customer brings in 22 euros, the biz earns €823k/year. Profit is minimum 20% of revenue, so 164k/year, or 13k/month.

And that's just for one restaurant.

Now ofc, gotta take taxes into account...

 

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[Simon Angel]

I have a friend who owns a pizzeria so I went to ask him some questions.

The lowest minimum average is 120 pizzas per day, 6 days a week (they make 250 per day on the weekend but let's be conservative with the calculations).

That's 37 440 pizzas per year.

Admitting that 1 pizza = 1 customer and that the average customer brings in 22 euros, the biz earns €823k/year. Profit is minimum 20% of revenue, so 164k/year, or 13k/month.

And that's just for one restaurant.

Now ofc, gotta take taxes into account...

I wouldn't just assume that his profit is 20% at the minimum unless he told you so. A lot of restaurants are run with very low margins.

 

[polaroid22]

I have a friend who owns a pizzeria so I went to ask him some questions.

The lowest minimum average is 120 pizzas per day, 6 days a week (they make 250 per day on the weekend but let's be conservative with the calculations).

That's 37 440 pizzas per year.

Admitting that 1 pizza = 1 customer and that the average customer brings in 22 euros, the biz earns €823k/year. Profit is minimum 20% of revenue, so 164k/year, or 13k/month.

And that's just for one restaurant.

Now ofc, gotta take taxes into account...

Not sure where you can charge 22€ for one Pizza, over here it's more like 11€. I need to time and check, but not sure I would be able to bake 120 pizza's a day with my current setup(I would prolly be only doing nights 17:00 - 22:00).

 

[Carlitos]

any update?

 

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[amp0193]

There's a newish delivery pizza chain in Texas called Zalat.

They were the first restaurant to partner with Uber for food deliveries (before Uber Eats existed).

The concept: No dine-in option, super small store footprints. No delivery staff, all delivery outsourced to delivery apps. Take the overhead savings and use it to improve pizza quality. Because the pizza is better, charge a premium price.

Our family has always gotten pizza once a week. We use to rotate each week through the other various national pizza chains, but they all taste like garbage and afterwards you feel like you ate a brick.

2 years ago we tried Zalat, and we've had it every week since. Tastes great, decent variety of options, and I don't feel like shit after eating it.

Is there money to be made in pizza? Of course there is. But just like every other kind of business, you have to do something unique and different and valuable to what already exists.

Read more on Zalat here: https://www.startengine.com/offering/zalatpizza

 

[The Racing Driver]

This week I had a Fireaway Pizza here in the UK and was impressed with the quality. I went online to discover it was only founded in 2016. With some great marketing, a good product and smart franchising strategy, they're worth tens of millions today and are continuing to grow. There are some cool golden nuggets in this video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgxKXgMjiHQ