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Possible solution to create a non-drinking culture?

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robertwills

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I'm all for personal choice but I "got" the wisdom of alcohol - don't ever drink! I haven't for many years. It's so obvious the destruction that takes place in every aspect of life due to drinking alcohol. Here's my possible solution starting in the US:

Alcohol causes $250 billion in costs a year. That about $700 per citizen (350 million of them). I pay each citizen $350 each year if they don't drink for the entire year. They are paid at the end of the year. The government, insurance agencies, philanthropic entities pay me $100 per citizen that doesn't drink. I believe only a small percent of people would lie and this can be confirmed by doing some analysis.

I hate to pay people to stop bad behaviours but I believe this could be the opening. Once they realize how good is to be alcohol-free hey won't go back to drinking.

What do you think?
 

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Devilery

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I'm all for personal choice but I "got" the wisdom of alcohol - don't ever drink! I haven't for many years. It's so obvious the destruction that takes place in every aspect of life due to drinking alcohol. Here's my possible solution starting in the US:

Alcohol causes $250 billion in costs a year. That about $700 per citizen (350 million of them). I pay each citizen $350 each year if they don't drink for the entire year. They are paid at the end of the year. The government, insurance agencies, philanthropic entities pay me $100 per citizen that doesn't drink. I believe only a small percent of people would lie and this can be confirmed by doing some analysis.

I hate to pay people to stop bad behaviours but I believe this could be the opening. Once they realize how good is to be alcohol-free hey won't go back to drinking.

What do you think?

Sure! I'll take your $350 and from the bottom of my heart, I promise not to spend it on a fancy bottle!

Would you give out your personal money to strangers with alcohol-related issues?
 

woken

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Sure! I'll take your $350 and from the bottom of my heart, I promise not to spend it on a fancy bottle!

Would you give out your personal money to strangers with alcohol-related issues?
There’s a cigar I really want to try, about the same amount. Count me in too. :rofl: :rofl:
 

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I already don’t drink so I’ll take your $350/year ;-)

I love that you also don’t drink but I’m not clear on your solution. You still seem to be out a lot of money.

And you’d have to replace this vehicle with another healthier vehicle that meets so many needs. If drinking gives Joe a feeling of connection with his buddies, a feeling of significance because he only drinks Chivas or whatever, a feeling of certainty because he knows without a doubt every time he drinks he will feel a particular way, and a sense of adventure because he never knows what will happen when he’s drunk, he needs something else that does similar things.

Weightlifting?
  • Meditation?
  • Prayer?
  • Hanging with his dogs?
  • Fishing?
All while holding and sipping from a glass water bottle… full of healthy H2O.

That’s key.
 

Saad Khan

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I'm all for personal choice but I "got" the wisdom of alcohol - don't ever drink! I haven't for many years. It's so obvious the destruction that takes place in every aspect of life due to drinking alcohol. Here's my possible solution starting in the US:

Alcohol causes $250 billion in costs a year. That about $700 per citizen (350 million of them). I pay each citizen $350 each year if they don't drink for the entire year. They are paid at the end of the year. The government, insurance agencies, philanthropic entities pay me $100 per citizen that doesn't drink. I believe only a small percent of people would lie and this can be confirmed by doing some analysis.

I hate to pay people to stop bad behaviours but I believe this could be the opening. Once they realize how good is to be alcohol-free hey won't go back to drinking.

What do you think?
What will you do about the alcohol addicts? They will just spend that $350 on their favorite bottle. If the government itself stops the supply of alcohol, or you come up with a better solution, this problem would be easier to solve. I believe the world will be a better place without alcohol.

What you're trying to do is hard and not in your control to a large extent, because you can't control people. But if you pull this off, hats off to you man. I don't know anything about this but I'd test this with a small group of people and then start with a small country or state.
 

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Make alcohol passport - you have to have one if you buy
and if you don't have one you get $350 a year. /s
 

robertwills

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Sure! I'll take your $350 and from the bottom of my heart, I promise not to spend it on a fancy bottle!

Would you give out your personal money to strangers with alcohol-related issues?
No. As I indicated above, I believe the percentage of people who will lie to get the $350 will be be a small percentage. This can be verified through an analysis. I don't know exactly what that analysis would entail but it's done in certain industries. You only need o sample a small percent to find out what percent is lying overall. Then the the program can be adjusted to ensure that it works and is of course profitable for me!
 

robertwills

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But if you pull this off, hats off to you man. I.
Wow! You got it! I believe it's possible to change the drinking culture and within a short period of time, like 5-10 years. In fact the culture is always changing without intention. The solution could be very simple but coming up with it may seem impossible. That's true in many creative fields like music. Think how simple the melody (the main guitarriff) of "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple is. But trying coming up with something like it! Like Steve Jobs said, anyone can change the world.
 

robertwills

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I already don’t drink so I’ll take your $350/year ;-)

I love that you also don’t drink but I’m not clear on your solution. You still seem to be out a lot of money.

And you’d have to replace this vehicle with another healthier vehicle that meets so many needs. If drinking gives Joe a feeling of connection with his buddies, a feeling of significance because he only drinks Chivas or whatever, a feeling of certainty because he knows without a doubt every time he drinks he will feel a particular way, and a sense of adventure because he never knows what will happen when he’s drunk, he needs something else that does similar things.

Weightlifting?
  • Meditation?
  • Prayer?
  • Hanging with his dogs?
  • Fishing?
All while holding and sipping from a glass water bottle… full of healthy H2O.

That’s key.
Because you don't drink you would be entitled to the $350.

The profit is made by the difference from what the stakeholders (government, foundations, insurance companies, etc.) in reducing drinking will pay and the actually amount of decrease in drinking.

I don't have to replace it with anything for anyone. Not everyone will need to replace it with anything. Those that do can find that themselves but maybe I can offer good suggestions, like aerobic exercise, walking, running, bicycling, etc..
 

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Devilery

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No. As I indicated above, I believe the percentage of people who will lie to get the $350 will be be a small percentage. This can be verified through an analysis. I don't know exactly what that analysis would entail but it's done in certain industries. You only need o sample a small percent to find out what percent is lying overall. Then the the program can be adjusted to ensure that it works and is of course profitable for me!
As we're obviously both not serious about the idea, I would love to do some mental gymnastics.

Have you ever met an alcoholic? He/she will obviously take the money, and won't give a shit about the terms. What are you going to do then? Sue him/her?

How are you going to counter billions-worth alcohol production/distribution related company marketing? Who do you think will win, - Connor McGregor releasing a new whiskey line and promoting it to his fans, or you offering his fans $350 a year to not drink any alcohol for a year?

Do you know why people drink alcohol? $350 is nothing to someone who drinks to ease the pain of living an absolute shit life and working a dreadful job. It's a tiny amount compared to how effective (short-term) alcohol is when dealing with serious life issues. Or let's take a more positive example, what's worth more to a college student, - $350 or parties every weekend with his/her peers?

If I worked a heavy manual labor job for just above the minimum wage and my wife had left me with another man, I wouldn't stop drinking for $350 a year... Nor would I when I was in the university.
 

Saad Khan

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Wow! You got it! I believe it's possible to change the drinking culture and within a short period of time, like 5-10 years. In fact the culture is always changing without intention. The solution could be very simple but coming up with it may seem impossible. That's true in many creative fields like music. Think how simple the melody (the main guitarriff) of "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple is. But trying coming up with something like it! Like Steve Jobs said, anyone can change the world.
So many people in the west tend to drink for instant gratification. If you want to see people who don't drink alcohol, research Muslims. About 1.8 billion people in the world don't drink. Perhaps, you'll find some valuable insights that can pave your road to the ultimate goal. But even Islam can't cure addicts. Not everyone is a tough soul who can handle all the harsh realities of this world. That's why they look for instant gratification, be it in the form of drinking, gaming, TV, smoking, eating for pleasure and the list goes on...

I have a friend who recently got into smoking and he's addicted. He can't stop. I don't think the situation will differ for an alcohol addict.

Have you ever met an addict? Try to understand them, make them do what they don't want by letting them do what they want, in smaller proportions. Maybe look up rehabilitation centers.

This feat seems near impossible. Suppose if you did succeed in stopping people from drinking. How will you combat the big companies who spend billions promoting it?
 

Saad Khan

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As we're obviously both not serious about the idea, I would love to do some mental gymnastics.

Have you ever met an alcoholic? He/she will obviously take the money, and won't give a shit about the terms. What are you going to do then? Sue him/her?

How are you going to counter billions-worth alcohol production/distribution related company marketing? Who do you think will win, - Connor McGregor releasing a new whiskey line and promoting it to his fans, or you offering his fans $350 a year to not drink any alcohol for a year?

Do you know why people drink alcohol? $350 is nothing to someone who drinks to ease the pain of living an absolute shit life and working a dreadful job. It's a tiny amount compared to how effective (short-term) alcohol is when dealing with serious life issues. Or let's take a more positive example, what's worth more to a college student, - $350 or parties every weekend with his/her peers?

If I worked a heavy manual labor job for just above the minimum wage and my wife had left me with another man, I wouldn't stop drinking for $350 a year... Nor would I when I was in the university.
I do agree with you and @robertwills needs to address this issue.
 

robertwills

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As we're obviously both not serious about the idea, I would love to do some mental gymnastics.

Have you ever met an alcoholic? He/she will obviously take the money, and won't give a shit about the terms. What are you going to do then? Sue him/her?

How are you going to counter billions-worth alcohol production/distribution related company marketing? Who do you think will win, - Connor McGregor releasing a new whiskey line and promoting it to his fans, or you offering his fans $350 a year to not drink any alcohol for a year?

Do you know why people drink alcohol? $350 is nothing to someone who drinks to ease the pain of living an absolute shit life and working a dreadful job. It's a tiny amount compared to how effective (short-term) alcohol is when dealing with serious life issues. Or let's take a more positive example, what's worth more to a college student, - $350 or parties every weekend with his/her peers?

If I worked a heavy manual labor job for just above the minimum wage and my wife had left me with another man, I wouldn't stop drinking for $350 a year... Nor would I when I was in the university.
I am serious about the idea of changing the culture. I don't like paying people not to do do something but it was just something I thought of that might possibly get it started in some way.

I agree there's lots of people who will not stop drinking no matter what but there will be lots of people who do. You don't need to get the number of drinkers down to 0 but that would obviously fantastic. If you reduced the number of drinkers by 25% that would literally change the world and it would be noticeable in many ways - less accidents, nuisance, violence, health, etc..

I would not drink alcohol no matter what my circumstances were. In fact if they were really depressing then I would certainly understand that alcohol would only hurt my chances of making my life better.
 

robertwills

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So many people in the west tend to drink for instant gratification. If you want to see people who don't drink alcohol, research Muslims. About 1.8 billion people in the world don't drink. Perhaps, you'll find some valuable insights that can pave your road to the ultimate goal. But even Islam can't cure addicts. Not everyone is a tough soul who can handle all the harsh realities of this world. That's why they look for instant gratification, be it in the form of drinking, gaming, TV, smoking, eating for pleasure and the list goes on...

I have a friend who recently got into smoking and he's addicted. He can't stop. I don't think the situation will differ for an alcohol addict.

Have you ever met an addict? Try to understand them, make them do what they don't want by letting them do what they want, in smaller proportions. Maybe look up rehabilitation centers.

This feat seems near impossible. Suppose if you did succeed in stopping people from drinking. How will you combat the big companies who spend billions promoting it?
Yes if you look at a map of the world's alcohol consumption you will see in the Islamic countries alcohol consumption is close to zero! I wonder if that's because of draconian laws. Like if you drink you get whipped or something. That's not a route that I would agree to. I believe if people knew the facts they would not drink.

If alcohol was not readily available because it didn't exist in the cultural mindset then there would also be low rates of alcohol addiction. Addition is a totally different realm. It's only related to alcohol because one of alcohol's numerous severely destructive properties is to cause some users lives revolve around it, even after the very first drink(s).

As for the companies marketing (pushing) alcohol I don't care at all. No amount of advertising/marketing can can work when there is no demand. I believe truth is always in demand.
 
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Saad Khan

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even after the very first drink(s).
The most dangerous drinks. The most dangerous puffs are the first ones.

I wonder if that's because of draconian laws.
The Quran does not prescribe a penalty for consuming alcohol. It's forbidden to consume intoxicating substances. But this is mentioned in the Quran:

"Whoever drinks alcohol in the world and dies without repentance, he will be deprived of the divine drink“

So it's not like you will get beaten to pulp if you do drink, it's just explicitly mentioned in the Quran and Muslims strictly abide by it. The punishment isn't prescribed, so it may be subjective. Please do research while conducting market analysis. You just assumed a point and didn't research it, even when I told you to.

I'm guessing you're just asking questions here. This is an entrepreneur forum. So business-wise, depriving people of something they do when they're depressed to get instant gratification isn't going to make you any money. You'll experience so much friction that you'll burn your hands. You can, however, focus on people who want to break out of it.

You seem to jump from one idea to another. Find a need and attach a purpose with that idea, then stick to it.
 

robertwills

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The most dangerous drinks. The most dangerous puffs are the first ones.


The Quran does not prescribe a penalty for consuming alcohol. It's forbidden to consume intoxicating substances. But this is mentioned in the Quran:

"Whoever drinks alcohol in the world and dies without repentance, he will be deprived of the divine drink“

So it's not like you will get beaten to pulp if you do drink, it's just explicitly mentioned in the Quran and Muslims strictly abide by it. The punishment isn't prescribed, so it may be subjective. Please do research while conducting market analysis. You just assumed a point and didn't research it, even when I told you to.

I'm guessing you're just asking questions here. This is an entrepreneur forum. So business-wise, depriving people of something they do when they're depressed to get instant gratification isn't going to make you any money. You'll experience so much friction that you'll burn your hands. You can, however, focus on people who want to break out of it.

You seem to jump from one idea to another. Find a need and attach a purpose with that idea, then stick to it.
I did research it, to some degree. I saw the map and I hypothesized to why it is the way it is there. I do know something about Islamic countries. Some of their laws for intoxicating substances are very harsh by western standards. You know this as well.

My question was entrepreneurial. It is about how to change the culture for the better and do so at a profit.

Right now I'm exploring all my options. Then I will indeed focus like a laser. I'm not going to be involved with changing the drinking culture, abolishing compulsory education, selling my music, etc. all at the same time. I learned from the great industrialist Andrew Carnegie that one should always focus on one business. My experience has shown this to be true.
 
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robertwills

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The most dangerous drinks. The most dangerous puffs are the first ones.


The Quran does not prescribe a penalty for consuming alcohol. It's forbidden to consume intoxicating substances. But this is mentioned in the Quran:

"Whoever drinks alcohol in the world and dies without repentance, he will be deprived of the divine drink“

So it's not like you will get beaten to pulp if you do drink, it's just explicitly mentioned in the Quran and Muslims strictly abide by it. The punishment isn't prescribed, so it may be subjective. Please do research while conducting market analysis. You just assumed a point and didn't research it, even when I told you to.

I'm guessing you're just asking questions here. This is an entrepreneur forum. So business-wise, depriving people of something they do when they're depressed to get instant gratification isn't going to make you any money. You'll experience so much friction that you'll burn your hands. You can, however, focus on people who want to break out of it.

You seem to jump from one idea to another. Find a need and attach a purpose with that idea, then stick to it.
I did some more research. Apparently in Iran consumption of alcoholic beverages is punishable by 80 lashes. I think that's on par or worse with getting beaten to a pulp. Nice country, huh? It's time to free people everywhere of this and every other kind of abuse by governments and anyone else who wants to impose it on others.
 

Saad Khan

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I did some more research. Apparently in Iran consumption of alcoholic beverages is punishable by 80 lashes. I think that's on par or worse with getting beaten to a pulp. Nice country, huh? It's time to free people everywhere of this and every other kind of abuse by governments and anyone else who wants to impose it on others.
Like I said, it's subjective...
 

tch330

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I'm all for personal choice but I "got" the wisdom of alcohol - don't ever drink! I haven't for many years. It's so obvious the destruction that takes place in every aspect of life due to drinking alcohol. Here's my possible solution starting in the US:

Alcohol causes $250 billion in costs a year. That about $700 per citizen (350 million of them). I pay each citizen $350 each year if they don't drink for the entire year. They are paid at the end of the year. The government, insurance agencies, philanthropic entities pay me $100 per citizen that doesn't drink. I believe only a small percent of people would lie and this can be confirmed by doing some analysis.

I hate to pay people to stop bad behaviours but I believe this could be the opening. Once they realize how good is to be alcohol-free hey won't go back to drinking.

What do you think?
I'm thinking the government (who benefits from every drink consumed by anyone, anywhere, via obligatory Federal taxes), isn't going to be on the list of sources that are willing to help you pay people to not drink.

I can see how people who naturally abstain from drinking at all would possibly be interested in $350, but I feel like it's similar to those who regularly work out and whether they'd bother seeking some membership reimbursement from their insurance. Less than a dollar a day doesn't seem like enough motivation for people to take any sort of action these days.

How would this actually reduce the number of people who drink? Assuming that's the goal.
 

robertwills

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I'm thinking the government (who benefits from every drink consumed by anyone, anywhere, via obligatory Federal taxes), isn't going to be on the list of sources that are willing to help you pay people to not drink.

I can see how people who naturally abstain from drinking at all would possibly be interested in $350, but I feel like it's similar to those who regularly work out and whether they'd bother seeking some membership reimbursement from their insurance. Less than a dollar a day doesn't seem like enough motivation for people to take any sort of action these days.

How would this actually reduce the number of people who drink? Assuming that's the goal.
My theory is that there is a large percentage of people who don't have an addiction to alcohol, yet are still susceptible to the other destructive effects of alcohol, and would gladly give it up for $350.
 

Steeltip

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lol, they all could just smoke pot instead I would pay someone 350 a year just to switch.

But on another note, it's not like life is that much better when you don't drink. I quit cigarettes for instance and life is certainly not better, I think about that shit all the time.

I will say life becomes more stable when you don't drink though not necessarily more fun or exciting.
 

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While your intentions are great, let me assure you that you can't fix a drinking problem with external goals/factors. Period.

It's an internal struggle that requires internal discipline and any external assistance needs to be externalized in a very intentional and purposeful way.

You're talking about giving drinkers $350 a year but your average addict is spending at least that per MONTH (if not significantly more) and usually from funds they don't have to begin with. Right there they can put THOUSANDS of dollars per year into their pockets without your help and they KNOW this. Then you have health improvements to consider, which are significant, and addicts also understand this.

The benefits of quitting are already significant, but it doesn't matter - because knowing isn't enough and external motivation doesn't work on addicts because that's not how addiction works.

This is why "Rock Bottom" is so important to many addicts - they need some external event to hit them so hard that it causes a wake up call on a scale they never knew they could experience. The thought of continuing to drink needs to scare the f*cking shit out of them, if you'll excuse the language.

And even then, at rock bottom, with an extreme desire to quit, it's often not enough. The most likely thing a person will do after being told by a doctor that they will literally die if they keep drinking is... keep drinking.

You can certainly take a drinker's money with a service like you suggest. Drinkers very often WANT to quit much like folks trying to lose weight, so they'll subscribe and buy and whatever else, but it's not really offering any real value because it's not an effective way to combat the issue.

Alcohol Anonymous works by giving people community and accountability and a group of folks to relate to. Forget the steps and belief and all the rest - the psychology of why it works is simply the support system that it formalizes around the addict.

Rehab works by removing the addict from the negative reinforcing environment they live in. The problem is that once they return to their old environment, old habits die hard. Rehab needs to be followed up by a drastic change in lifestyle and environment for it to have any chance of working.

Your goal is great, but your approach is ineffective. If you REALLY want to help drinkers, you need to help them identify why they are failing and provide them with various support systems and tools that addresses the underlying psychology of addiction.

I would honestly go so far as to say that unless you've been an addict yourself (or have spent significant time with them) you have very little chance of actually helping one, because the experience of addiction is almost indescribable to an outsider and logic, reason, and good intentions just aren't enough to crack this issue.
 

robertwills

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While your intentions are great, let me assure you that you can't fix a drinking problem with external goals/factors. Period.

It's an internal struggle that requires internal discipline and any external assistance needs to be externalized in a very intentional and purposeful way.

You're talking about giving drinkers $350 a year but your average addict is spending at least that per MONTH (if not significantly more) and usually from funds they don't have to begin with. Right there they can put THOUSANDS of dollars per year into their pockets without your help and they KNOW this. Then you have health improvements to consider, which are significant, and addicts also understand this.

The benefits of quitting are already significant, but it doesn't matter - because knowing isn't enough and external motivation doesn't work on addicts because that's not how addiction works.

This is why "Rock Bottom" is so important to many addicts - they need some external event to hit them so hard that it causes a wake up call on a scale they never knew they could experience. The thought of continuing to drink needs to scare the f*cking shit out of them, if you'll excuse the language.

And even then, at rock bottom, with an extreme desire to quit, it's often not enough. The most likely thing a person will do after being told by a doctor that they will literally die if they keep drinking is... keep drinking.

You can certainly take a drinker's money with a service like you suggest. Drinkers very often WANT to quit much like folks trying to lose weight, so they'll subscribe and buy and whatever else, but it's not really offering any real value because it's not an effective way to combat the issue.

Alcohol Anonymous works by giving people community and accountability and a group of folks to relate to. Forget the steps and belief and all the rest - the psychology of why it works is simply the support system that it formalizes around the addict.

Rehab works by removing the addict from the negative reinforcing environment they live in. The problem is that once they return to their old environment, old habits die hard. Rehab needs to be followed up by a drastic change in lifestyle and environment for it to have any chance of working.

Your goal is great, but your approach is ineffective. If you REALLY want to help drinkers, you need to help them identify why they are failing and provide them with various support systems and tools that addresses the underlying psychology of addiction.

I would honestly go so far as to say that unless you've been an addict yourself (or have spent significant time with them) you have very little chance of actually helping one, because the experience of addiction is almost indescribable to an outsider and logic, reason, and good intentions just aren't enough to crack this issue.
Thank you for your analysis but as I have indicated above this is not about alcohol addiction; it's about changing the culture of alcohol where it exists. Addiction is a subset of the issue and would be greatly positively impacted by a non-drinking culture.
 

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If you want to change the culture of drinking then you have to make being drunk not enjoyable. Or make the cultural west a theocracy like the middle east.
 

Steeltip

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actually, you know what might actually work to a degree?

Make a college scholarship based on not drinking and make it really substantial. I bet that would really help change the drinking culture.

make sure the students are breathalyzed twice a day and it might actually work.
 

robertwills

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actually, you know what might actually work to a degree?

Make a college scholarship based on not drinking and make it really substantial. I bet that would really help change the drinking culture.

make sure the students are breathalyzed twice a day and it might actually work.
I'm thinking the best way is to have a culture of people who have honor. Who would not drink because everyone knows just how bad it is for themselves and everyone else.
 

Steeltip

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I'm thinking the best way is to have a culture of people who have honor. Who would not drink because everyone knows just how bad it is for themselves and everyone else.
we already know that and we don't do that.

the best possible outcome I would say is if the U.S. Portugal'd up and decriminalized substance use.

 

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MARKETPLACE Fox Web School "Legend" Group Coaching Program 2021
Hi - I sent out some emails with the updates but I'll PM you now also, thanks. The issue is...
MARKETPLACE Not sure how to start? This free book will teach you how to build a successful web design business
Hi Fox. Starting the book and got through the introduction. Had a conversation with Andy Black...
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MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Chris is super sharp and is aware of many facets of entrepreneurship and can help get your...

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