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HOT TOPIC Online vs Offline Business

yyes

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This question probably gets asked alot in this forum and I'm still trying to take the plunge but don't know what to pursue.

Ultimately my ideal goal is to attain financial freedom and get away from the 9-5 rat race. I want to be in control and my ideal income goal falls within the range of 200-400k profit pretty year.

I hear both arguments. Online is saturated, offline doesn't scale, online has too much competition, etc.

But in your guys opinion what business side offers the best road to financial freedom?
 

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What type of business in your opinion would better fit you?

Both online and offline businesses offer road to financial freedom. This isn't about what's better, it's about what's better for you.
 
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yyes

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What type of business in your opinion would better fit you?

Both online and offline businesses offer road to financial freedom. This isn't about what's better, it's about what's better for you.
That's the problem, I don't know what I'm good at . In a nutshell hopefully this tells you a bit about me
  • I have an iq of 115
  • I work in the IT industry as a support specialist
  • Before graduating with my bachelor's , I was in the plumbing painting and landscaping industry
  • I worked for wells Fargo as a banker for five years and developed great customer service skills.
  • I'm an introvert but a great listener
  • I have a bachelor's in business which frankly feel is worthless .
I feel like the only good thing I'm good at is playing soccer but I don't want to make a job out of the only thing I enjoy

I guess I'm good at blue collar work but I don't want to be a worker I want to manage my business
 

WealthChaser

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@Andy Black helped me with a similar thread to this. Try shifting from the "online vs offline" mindset to the "Value add" mindset. Find something that is painful for you, or family, or a trend you spot and fix that issue. Focus on adding value rather than starting a business. If you decide at the start "I am going to make an online business" you very well may miss excellent opportunities that could be held offline.

Of course this is MUCH easier said than done as I am in this stage as well. All the best!
 
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yyes

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@Andy Black helped me with a similar thread to this. Try shifting from the "online vs offline" mindset to the "Value add" mindset. Find something that is painful for you, or family, or a trend you spot and fix that issue. Focus on adding value rather than starting a business. If you decide at the start "I am going to make an online business" you very well may miss excellent opportunities that could be held offline.

Of course this is MUCH easier said than done as I am in this stage as well. All the best!
Yup. Andy is great

But I guess I get discouraged .
Let me give you an example .

I put alot of thought into going into the carpet cleaning business . I came up with a usp that states that I will clean your carpet and if you aren't satisfied I will pay you yuur money back

I thought that this usp adds value as it gives customers peace of mind that they aren't risking their hard earned money

I posted this idea in the carpet cleaning community and got shit on laughed at ridiculed

People said I was stupid that I would be out of business within six months etc

I said that my initial prices would start off at 115 per room and people said that I was crazy and that there are people that clean carpets at 50 dollars per room.

So I was like ok. Here I am trying to add value but I guess maybe I'm not ?
 

WealthChaser

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Yup. Andy is great

But I guess I get discouraged .
Let me give you an example .

I put alot of thought into going into the carpet cleaning business . I came up with a usp that states that I will clean your carpet and if you aren't satisfied I will pay you yuur money back

I thought that this usp adds value as it gives customers peace of mind that they aren't risking their hard earned money

I posted this idea in the carpet cleaning community and got sh*t on laughed at ridiculed

People said I was stupid that I would be out of business within six months etc

I said that my initial prices would start off at 115 per room and people said that I was crazy and that there are people that clean carpets at 50 dollars per room.

So I was like ok. Here I am trying to add value but I guess maybe I'm not ?

Trust me I get it, I am in the same stage as you are. Your anxiety and head banging are not done alone. I have a rather large dent in the shape of my forehead on my wall that I have been adding to for a while now. I have had multiple failures already.

In my failures I have asked: Did the value add justify a new service to be created? (For your example, was a money back guarantee enough of a value add to justify creating a new business? Could you have added more value or targeted another underserviced area of cleaning?)
I know I can personally vow to the fact that I do not want to use a 'cleaning service' to get my floors done etc, but I would absolutely pay for someone to clean up my messy apartment for me, maybe there are other niches not being properly serviced or advertised to?

As far as price goes, I don't think I can add much value past what the book talks about. It is dangerous to get into a price war for 'like goods'. Instead trust that you are adding true value into the product and the market will echo if your value add is enough to justify the cost. It is not a bad thing to be the most expensive, but you better be bringing a ton of value for the price if you have lots of competitors.

Another question to ask yourself is did you actually get the value proposition out to a large enough sampling of the market to determine if the business is actually needed or not. If you only ask 3 people to use your service and they all say no, that is NOT a very large sampling of the market and you could be basing your conclusion that the service is not needed off of faulty or incomplete feedback.

The only success I have found at this game so far is that there is no 'right answer' and you just going to have to tweak and pivot until the market says you have a winner.
 

WealthChaser

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I posted this idea in the carpet cleaning community and got sh*t on laughed at ridiculed
Oh also I wouldn't pay any mind to the "you can't do it" esp. from potential competition. They don't want you taking market share so of course they will nay say. Let the market decide if it is viable.
 
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yyes

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Trust me I get it, I am in the same stage as you are. Your anxiety and head banging are not done alone. I have a rather large dent in the shape of my forehead on my wall that I have been adding to for a while now. I have had multiple failures already.

In my failures I have asked: Did the value add justify a new service to be created? (For your example, was a money back guarantee enough of a value add to justify creating a new business? Could you have added more value or targeted another underserviced area of cleaning?)
I know I can personally vow to the fact that I do not want to use a 'cleaning service' to get my floors done etc, but I would absolutely pay for someone to clean up my messy apartment for me, maybe there are other niches not being properly serviced or advertised to?

As far as price goes, I don't think I can add much value past what the book talks about. It is dangerous to get into a price war for 'like goods'. Instead trust that you are adding true value into the product and the market will echo if your value add is enough to justify the cost. It is not a bad thing to be the most expensive, but you better be bringing a ton of value for the price if you have lots of competitors.

Another question to ask yourself is did you actually get the value proposition out to a large enough sampling of the market to determine if the business is actually needed or not. If you only ask 3 people to use your service and they all say no, that is NOT a very large sampling of the market and you could be basing your conclusion that the service is not needed off of faulty or incomplete feedback.

The only success I have found at this game so far is that there is no 'right answer' and you just going to have to tweak and pivot until the market says you have a winner.
Thats the problem, I havent even tried it yet. I have a lot of issues that are holding me back:

  • Indecisiveness is a big one.
  • Self discipline is another one.
  • Fear holds me back from taking action.
In the carpet cleaning example I have allowed people to tell me that it cant be done, before even trying to do anything.

In the online sector, when trying to start Amazon FBA, I also allowed people to tell me that the market was too saturated and that it was more trouble than it was worth.

Im glad im not the only one that goes through this. haha
 

MidwestLandlord

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I came up with a usp that states that I will clean your carpet and if you aren't satisfied I will pay you yuur money back
I'm involved a little bit in real estate. You know what would be great in my area?

A carpet cleaner that answers the phone and shows up when they say they will.

Seriously.

I would worship them like some kind of carpet cleaning messiah, I would refer them to everyone I know, I would pay more per room than any of their competitors. I'd be their biggest fan.

Ever notice something about service companies/professionals?

People refer to them possessively.

"I gotta call MY plumber"

"MY lawyer"

"MY dentist"

"MY electrician"

"MY carpet cleaning guys"

"MY web guy"

There's a study I read once (and can't find on google right now haha) where people were able to recall from memory an average of 7 brand names in consumer goods categories (7 car brands, 7 soda brands, whatever) but on average were only able to recall *1* service brand name per category (1 electrician, 1 lawyer, whatever)

The reason why people could only recall 1 is irrelevant. The point is BE THAT ONE.

How?

1) Strong lead generation efforts

Marketing, networking (realtors and property managers!), referrals, etc.

This is where a USP would come in. It doesn't have to be gimmicky though. Maybe the first room is free. Maybe if it's a property management company, the first HOUSE is free (put in a room limit haha)

All you have to do is let them know you exist (hint: pick up the phone and call!), make them feel comfortable trying you out (reduce their risk), and make the entire process as easy on them as possible (reduce their hassle). Simple. (note I didn't say easy)

2) Strong customer retention efforts

Great customer service. Not good service, which is forgettable, but GREAT service. And at least in my area, the bar is set very low for what constitutes "great"

Great actual service too. You know, actually get the carpet clean?

Long story short....

Is carpet cleaning the right biz? Who knows? Certainly not me.

But who discouraged you? The same ones that don't answer their phone when a potential customer calls? Likely. (so does their opinion matter? does anyone's opinion matter except your customers'?)

Sometimes I think people don't realize just how low the bar is set in some industries, and how many value gaps there actually are, because they focus too much on doing something "no one else has done" (it doesn't have to be that complicated)

Does that make sense?
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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I'm involved a little bit in real estate. You know what would be great in my area?

A carpet cleaner that answers the phone and shows up when they say they will.

Seriously.

I would worship them like some kind of carpet cleaning messiah, I would refer them to everyone I know, I would pay more per room than any of their competitors. I'd be their biggest fan.

Ever notice something about service companies/professionals?

People refer to them possessively.

"I gotta call MY plumber"

"MY lawyer"

"MY dentist"

"MY electrician"

"MY carpet cleaning guys"

"MY web guy"

There's a study I read once (and can't find on google right now haha) where people were able to recall from memory an average of 7 brand names in consumer goods categories (7 car brands, 7 soda brands, whatever) but on average were only able to recall *1* service brand name per category (1 electrician, 1 lawyer, whatever)

The reason why people could only recall 1 is irrelevant. The point is BE THAT ONE.

How?

1) Strong lead generation efforts

Marketing, networking (realtors and property managers!), referrals, etc.

This is where a USP would come in. It doesn't have to be gimmicky though. Maybe the first room is free. Maybe if it's a property management company, the first HOUSE is free (put in a room limit haha)

All you have to do is let them know you exist (hint: pick up the phone and call!), make them feel comfortable trying you out (reduce their risk), and make the entire process as easy on them as possible (reduce their hassle). Simple. (note I didn't say easy)

2) Strong customer retention efforts

Great customer service. Not good service, which is forgettable, but GREAT service. And at least in my area, the bar is set very low for what constitutes "great"

Great actual service too. You know, actually get the carpet clean?

Long story short....

Is carpet cleaning the right biz? Who knows? Certainly not me.

But who discouraged you? The same ones that don't answer their phone when a potential customer calls? Likely. (so does their opinion matter? does anyone's opinion matter except your customers'?)

Sometimes I think people don't realize just how low the bar is set in some industries, and how many value gaps there actually are, because they focus too much on doing something "no one else has done" (it doesn't have to be that complicated)

Does that make sense?
Love this post. You hit the nail on the head.

I (as well as Andy) disagree about needing a USP.

You don't need a selling point you just need to be in the room.

They just need to know you exist, and you need to be there ready to help.
 

PizzaOnTheRoof

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Nothing is too saturated get break into, that just means more competition and noise.

I recommend listening to this podcast from @eliquid on core values and making decisions that will make you happy: Podcast 9 - Core Values And Your Success

Also, you don't need a USP, just be the closest person to them, make sure they know you exist and be ready to pounce.

"Overthinking is the art of creating problems that were never there."
 

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sandrajames

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Sep 14, 2018
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There's no obvious solution to your inquiry. Gainfulness isn't dictated by whether you are on the web or off. Productivity is controlled by a large group of different components. Principally, that you convey an item or administration your clients need. Looking to the future, numerous disconnected business presently works internet business sites. Online there is a pattern for huge organizations to begin disconnected parts to their tasks. Taking a gander at the prompt future, business visionaries are advancing toward a blocks and snaps plan of action when it is functional. Which is having a nearness both on the web and off.
 

Tommo

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I'm involved a little bit in real estate. You know what would be great in my area?

A carpet cleaner that answers the phone and shows up when they say they will.

Seriously.

I would worship them like some kind of carpet cleaning messiah, I would refer them to everyone I know, I would pay more per room than any of their competitors. I'd be their biggest fan.

Ever notice something about service companies/professionals?

People refer to them possessively.

"I gotta call MY plumber"

"MY lawyer"

"MY dentist"

"MY electrician"

"MY carpet cleaning guys"

"MY web guy"

There's a study I read once (and can't find on google right now haha) where people were able to recall from memory an average of 7 brand names in consumer goods categories (7 car brands, 7 soda brands, whatever) but on average were only able to recall *1* service brand name per category (1 electrician, 1 lawyer, whatever)

The reason why people could only recall 1 is irrelevant. The point is BE THAT ONE.

How?

1) Strong lead generation efforts

Marketing, networking (realtors and property managers!), referrals, etc.

This is where a USP would come in. It doesn't have to be gimmicky though. Maybe the first room is free. Maybe if it's a property management company, the first HOUSE is free (put in a room limit haha)

All you have to do is let them know you exist (hint: pick up the phone and call!), make them feel comfortable trying you out (reduce their risk), and make the entire process as easy on them as possible (reduce their hassle). Simple. (note I didn't say easy)

2) Strong customer retention efforts

Great customer service. Not good service, which is forgettable, but GREAT service. And at least in my area, the bar is set very low for what constitutes "great"

Great actual service too. You know, actually get the carpet clean?

Long story short....

Is carpet cleaning the right biz? Who knows? Certainly not me.

But who discouraged you? The same ones that don't answer their phone when a potential customer calls? Likely. (so does their opinion matter? does anyone's opinion matter except your customers'?)

Sometimes I think people don't realize just how low the bar is set in some industries, and how many value gaps there actually are, because they focus too much on doing something "no one else has done" (it doesn't have to be that complicated)

Does that make sense?
So true.
I have my accountant and my doctor and wouldn't change them as they are too valuable.
I work in quality control and am a good operator but all the shitty guys make me look like a star. Just do what you say you are going to do and turn up on time and do a good job, provide good service. Try it otherwise don't bother asking and good luck mate.
 

eliquid

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I'll offer up my flavor of advice on this.

I agree offline or online doesn't matter.

However, for me personally I found that online provides more options and opportunities ( if you can use them ). But that's because for me I am not a people person ( INTJ ).

How many possible people can you reach with a bricks and mortar plumbing service?

Now, how many people can you reach if you sell widgets online?

The numbers are vastly different. Doesn't mean you will sell more or make more money, but I don't like to limit my options out of the gate....

Also basing your choices on values that represent you will help a lot too. Thanks to @PizzaOnTheRoof for putting up my podcast on the subject.
 

WealthChaser

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I am glad you got some people who have actually gone through the process weigh in on this thread. take their advice and run with it. I am more moral support at this stage. But rest assured, your not alone in this struggle. All the best. Ill be checking in on ya!
 

eliquid

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I'm involved a little bit in real estate. You know what would be great in my area?

A carpet cleaner that answers the phone and shows up when they say they will.

Seriously.
I totally get this and agree.

I live in a rural-ish area, so getting good people to even come is a huge hurdle.

Then, they only want to do new construction.. not repairs. Another hurdle.

Once you finally find someone, they never show up and never call to tell you they can't come because of XYZ. You have to chase them down and find out when they will come next.

I had a roofer tell me they would be there Sunday. I stayed home all day and they never showed up so I texted them and they were like.. "had issues, will be there tomorrow".

Tomorrow came and I stayed at the house and they never showed. No calls or texts again until I finally text them.. "had more issues, will be there tomorrow".

That day came.. no show again and no call/texts.

I call someone else and they showed up in hours and fixed my small roof issue I needed done.

Guess who is getting my new roof business 30 days from now? Hint, it's not the first guy.

I shouldn't have to call and text you to hunt you down and find out why you didn't come and wasted my day.. I shouldn't have to call 20 different people to get 1 job done.

The 2nd guy didnt have a USP, other then he showed up.
 

ryanbleau

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My father owned a fleet of 14 carpet cleaning vans when I was a kid. Love the smell of carpet cleaning solution. The big thing to get into is get your osha hazmat certifications for biohazard and for industrial waste. You will get nasty jobs but those are the ones A: no ones wants to do and B: pay the most.
And its usually an insurance company footing a bill or a municipality. Meth lab cleanups can net you 150 an hour per person and a suicide cleanup can be around 2500 for gunshot vic. Good luck
 

biophase

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This question probably gets asked alot in this forum and I'm still trying to take the plunge but don't know what to pursue.

Ultimately my ideal goal is to attain financial freedom and get away from the 9-5 rat race. I want to be in control and my ideal income goal falls within the range of 200-400k profit pretty year.

I hear both arguments. Online is saturated, offline doesn't scale, online has too much competition, etc.

But in your guys opinion what business side offers the best road to financial freedom?
Have you calculated how many carpets you’d need to clean to make $200-$400k?
 
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yyes

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Wow, thank you guys for all your responses. I'm just being real with myself, I definitely lack action.

There are so many things holding up me back. Yesterday I stayed up all night and asked myself :
  • What am I gonna do when winter comes since carpet cleaning is a seasonal industry
  • Should I get into the lumber industry?
  • Should I get into the tree removal industry since I live in the city of trees?
  • But then again, I have never removed a large tree.
  • Should I instead get into the painting industry since I worked in that for a couple Years
  • But painting is also seasonal.

And on and on and on. Am I really over thinking or are my concerns actually valid??
 

ryanbleau

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That's why you have employees based on commission. 4 vans going out every day can do 20 carpets a day each. that's 80 carpets a day 6 days a week. Pay them $20 a carpet. pocket $25 per. You now are making over a half mil a year after investing maybe $200k in Assets. Spend 20k-50k in advertising per year in a high population area and you can see more than a mil a year if you treat the big clientel right and make the little ones feel like they are important. Not to hard to get in front of it.
 

ryanbleau

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Even better if you can run 2 vans with night and day crews. Get convenience store and box store hard floor cleaning contracts. Buy a couple $1000 used floor buffers and do the first cleaning free. Nursing homes and retirement homes do weekly cleanings on high traffic areas and will call for emergency cleanups. Hospitals will outsource the hard surface cleanings as well. The market is huge and usually only serviced by a couple guys
 
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yyes

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That's why you have employees based on commission. 4 vans going out every day can do 20 carpets a day each. that's 80 carpets a day 6 days a week. Pay them $20 a carpet. pocket $25 per. You now are making over a half mil a year after investing maybe $200k in Assets. Spend 20k-50k in advertising per year in a high population area and you can see more than a mil a year if you treat the big clientel right and make the little ones feel like they are important. Not to hard to get in front of it.
Why only 50 per room? I was thinking of charging 115 per room..lol
 

ryanbleau

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Depends on your market. If $125 is what everyone is charging than charge $125. Most urban markets for carpet cleaning fluctuate between $40 and $75 but higher end markets can be around $150. That also depends if your guys have to move furniture as well. If your market is advertising $125 for a room moving furniture I'd advertise $100 and specify you need the furniture moved in small print. but full price of $125 if you move furniture
 

eliquid

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I wouldn't charge less.

Someone is always willing to go out of business faster than you.

I'd advertise more value in some way before I would lower the cost.

One cleaning company I know did this, and then had to raise prices when min. wages in that city went up. It's just always a bad idea to lower prices. Someone will come in and undercut you at some point.
 

ryanbleau

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If you make your cleaning guys 100% commission they will actually generate more revenue. If they are in a house for one carpet they often can get more than 1 done by just talking to the home owner. But make sure your payment system is app based so they don't try to undercut you.
 

biophase

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That's why you have employees based on commission. 4 vans going out every day can do 20 carpets a day each. that's 80 carpets a day 6 days a week. Pay them $20 a carpet. pocket $25 per. You now are making over a half mil a year after investing maybe $200k in Assets. Spend 20k-50k in advertising per year in a high population area and you can see more than a mil a year if you treat the big clientel right and make the little ones feel like they are important. Not to hard to get in front of it.

Hi Ryan, I totally understand what you are saying. I posed the question because I don’t think the OP did any calculations when thinking through potential businesses.

Saying I want to make $200-$400k and I want to get out of the rat race and then saying I’m thinking of a carpet cleaning business doesn’t quite go together.
 

ryanbleau

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I've run the numbers on this particular segment so many times it hurts. My father at one time had 14 vans and over 30 employees. he ran a day shift and a night shift and was making ridiculous money. His accountant was shady and never paid taxes and my father took a hit they put him out of business. The guy that bought all his old equipment is still in business and I even worked for him for a time.
 

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