Mentor recommends partnership but are they REALLY necessary for Internet company?

[NicoleMarie]

Definitely. I am always open to working with like-minded people. 3D printing is an art in itself, so there are tons of applications in which you can do business.

Cool! I'll keep your business in mind.

Thanks for your replies!

 

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[Michael Raphael]

It looks like you have experience with products rather than website stuff but maybe we can still help each other out.

I actually own a software company and marketing/consulting company. So yea I definitely could help you out. And I don't need to be a partner Unless you want to give me equity for my hard work haha. Kidding, so how may I help, any questions?

 

[NicoleMarie]

I actually own a software company and marketing/consulting company. So yea I definitely could help you out. And I don't need to be a partner Unless you want to give me equity for my hard work haha. Kidding, so how may I help, any questions?

Oh wow, didn't know you did all that haha congrats! Bahaha. Would you mind if I PMed you? Probably better than loading up this thread ha. My mentor is pretty helpful with marketing but programming is where I'm lacking. Perhaps I can give you help down the line too.

 

[Michael Raphael]

Shoot.

 

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[leveragehacker]

Great to observe your learnings through this thread.

My 2c on partnerships is to pick them more carefully than you'd pick your wife. I've had 2 in the past (business-partners not wives lol) and neither worked out. The most recent one ended really ugly; legal action bla bla bla. That said - I also find I achieve more in my business when I have a partner.

Regards to outsourcing - I've had great experiences with Odesk, check them out as well.

 

[NicoleMarie]

Great to observe your learnings through this thread.

My 2c on partnerships is to pick them more carefully than you'd pick your wife. I've had 2 in the past (business-partners not wives lol) and neither worked out. The most recent one ended really ugly; legal action bla bla bla. That said - I also find I achieve more in my business when I have a partner.

Regards to outsourcing - I've had great experiences with Odesk, check them out as well.

Haha. I agree, I've heard they're just like marriages/divorces. Wow that's unfortunate, sorry to hear that. I have my mom helping me with the website if you want to call that a "partnership" lol. I wouldn't mind having lots of people to talk to and have a good programmer, just not a formal partnership.

Really? I've looked on there but I've heard that it's gone downhill quality-wise. I found the best people on Elance.

Thanks!

 

[rcdlopez]

I've had multiple business partners and the majority of them have held me back. My last partnership ended pretty bad and since then I do as much as I can on my own and hire anything I can't do. You should get used to hiring people anyway because as an entrepreneur you WILL be hiring people all the time.

I'm a full stack .NET and LAMP developer, so I get LOTS of offers from entrepreneurs and wantapreneurs who want me to be the chief technology officer of their company or whatever.

I started a venture long ago with another cofounder of mine. After a few months in development, the entire project nearly went down the toilet. We had a clash of ideas and in the end we split our own ways. Like in a divorce, we each took our 50% and our belongings. He took his money (he was an investor) and I took all the Intellectual Property I worked on (which is what really matters anyways!)

Since then I have made it my habit to hire people instead when I need the help. If I absolutely NEED an investor/partner then I make sure I am ALWAYS incorporated AND I set VESTING SCHEDULES!!! If you don't have proper vesting schedules then there is no incentive for your partner to work shit out with you if things don't go as he pleases.

Now on the subject of using odesk and elance. I use those sites A LOT. Overall these sites are good but one problem I always come across is how hard it is to find a qualified, competent and reliable professional. When you post a new job on there, you are immediately bombarded with emails from people in other countries. Finding the right person is a bitch because you don't know who's bullshitting you and there's no way of filtering the ones who suck a$$! This problem was so pervasive for me that I set out to create a new platform that addresses this issue.

I'm currently working on a new platform called Profezio (http://profezio.com). Profezio will be an online outsourcing platform similar to odesk and elance that will take the stress out of having to filter through a massive list of unqualified people. It will connect the worlds BEST developers and designers to employers who only want the best.

I wasn't planning on announcing this project yet but hey wtf! I'm launching soon.

 

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[rcdlopez]

Also, don't always listen to mentors. Sometimes they themselves don't know wtf they talkin about. Just cuz their older doesn't mean their wiser. And just cuz their successful doesn't mean they know how they became successful. As you become a more learned person, you will soon discover the difference between good advice and bad advice.

 

[NicoleMarie]

I've had multiple business partners and the majority of them have held me back. My last partnership ended pretty bad and since then I do as much as I can on my own and hire anything I can't do. You should get used to hiring people anyway because as an entrepreneur you WILL be hiring people all the time.

I'm a full stack .NET and LAMP developer, so I get LOTS of offers from entrepreneurs and wantapreneurs who want me to be the chief technology officer of their company or whatever.

I started a venture long ago with another cofounder of mine. After a few months in development, the entire project nearly went down the toilet. We had a clash of ideas and in the end we split our own ways. Like in a divorce, we each took our 50% and our belongings. He took his money (he was an investor) and I took all the Intellectual Property I worked on (which is what really matters anyways!)

Since then I have made it my habit to hire people instead when I need the help. If I absolutely NEED an investor/partner then I make sure I am ALWAYS incorporated AND I set VESTING SCHEDULES!!! If you don't have proper vesting schedules then there is no incentive for your partner to work shit out with you if things don't go as he pleases.

Now on the subject of using odesk and elance. I use those sites A LOT. Overall these sites are good but one problem I always come across is how hard it is to find a qualified, competent and reliable professional. When you post a new job on there, you are immediately bombarded with emails from people in other countries. Finding the right person is a bitch because you don't know who's bullshitting you and there's no way of filtering the ones who suck a$$! This problem was so pervasive for me that I set out to create a new platform that addresses this issue.

I'm currently working on a new platform called Profezio (http://profezio.com). Profezio will be an online outsourcing platform similar to odesk and elance that will take the stress out of having to filter through a massive list of unqualified people. It will connect the worlds BEST developers and designers to employers who only want the best.

I wasn't planning on announcing this project yet but hey wtf! I'm launching soon.

Thanks for the reply!

Yikes! That's unfortunate. I actually talked with someone on my progress thread and they said I should start with a profit sharing setup for a programmer rather than an actual partnership. Then I could go on to equity if I like them. Sounds like a winning idea to me. I think I could get away with hiring for small projects in the beginning, but I'd like to find a consistent programmer to work with longterm.

I can see that with those websites haha. I haven't tried yet. Today I actually came across www.ziptask.com which you should definitely check out. Your idea sounds awesome! Just make sure to find negatives about that website and use them. Some complain that you still need to know what you're doing and that the project manager part costs too much still.

By the way everyone, that mentor disappeared. :\ I wonder if he saw this thread...

 

[rcdlopez]

I actually heard that programmers don't usually want to join startups as they're in high demand and can work somewhere else for more money.

Not exactly. If someone paid me a lot, I may even leave my own business to go work for them. I've left jobs for offers before. You all may say why leave your own business (or sell it) to go work form someone else. There are perfectly good reasons why you would want to do that. Being part of something bigger for instance. Like being a CTO at an up an coming startup making headlines.

 

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[rcdlopez]

I actually talked with someone on my progress thread and they said I should start with a profit sharing setup for a programmer rather than an actual partnership.

What is the business you are starting anyway? What do you need the programmer for? Personally I wouldn't work for profits in a start up because most likely there will be NO profits (or very little).

 

[NicoleMarie]

What is the business you are starting anyway? What do you need the programmer for? Personally I wouldn't work for profits in a start up because most likely there will be NO profits (or very little).

I guess a programmer would want to join because the potential is millions, unlike a job and the programmer would be massively helping make it successful. It's going to be unavoidable because I'm starting a website. It's going to be related to Etsy. I have a progress thread if you want to check it out.

 

[rcdlopez]

I guess a programmer would want to join because the potential is millions, unlike a job and the programmer would be massively helping make it successful. It's going to be unavoidable because I'm starting a website. It's going to be related to Etsy. I have a progress thread if you want to check it out.

I don't want to burst your bubble and I'm sure people on here will give me shit but that's crap.

I speak from experience. I have had many people offer me equity in their company in exchange for work. And I've taken those offers. To this date no company I worked for equity made any real money. ESPECIALLY those in tech. I want to give you an example but I don't want to put people on blast. But I'll do my best to explain what I mean.

I had a friend who came up with an idea for an app that is similar to Vine in 2009. (Funny too cuz it even had a similar name to Vine) He came to me and asked me to be the lead developer in exchange for 33%. I said ok. I worked with him for about 7 or so months. I designed a prototype, we all got excited. We were networking, showing people our new product. We were rubbing elbows with people in high places. A company associated with fox network was even interested in doing some sort or collaboration with some new artist.

5 years later. Where is that app now? Dead! What is my 33% worth? nothing. The app is so out of date it isn't even compatible anymore with the modern iOS.

Equity is cool and all but any smart person will know that for every successful company there are 9 that go bad. What you need to remember is that most people have an employee mindset. They don't really care about passive income or assets. This is good because all you need to do is just pay them money. Give them money and they will do their job. Don't give up equity when you don't have to!

If your company DOES go big then you keep as much equity as possible. Like Felix Dennis says in his book "How to get rich",

To become rich, you must be an owner, and you must try to own it all. You must strive with every fiber of your being, while recognizing the idiocy of your behavior. To own and retain control of as near to 100% of any company as you can. Ownership is the only thing that counts.

 

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[NicoleMarie]

I don't want to burst your bubble and I'm sure people on here will give me shit but that's crap.

I speak from experience. I have had many people offer me equity in their company in exchange for work. And I've taken those offers. To this date no company I worked for equity made any real money. ESPECIALLY those in tech. I want to give you an example but I don't want to put people on blast. But I'll do my best to explain what I mean.

I had a friend who came up with an idea for an app that is similar to Vine in 2009. (Funny too cuz it even had a similar name to Vine) He came to me and asked me to be the lead developer in exchange for 33%. I said ok. I worked with him for about 7 or so months. I designed a prototype, we all got excited. We were networking, showing people our new product. We were rubbing elbows with people in high places. A company associated with fox network was even interested in doing some sort or collaboration with some new artist.

5 years later. Where is that app now? Dead! What is my 33% worth? nothing. The app is so out of date it isn't even compatible anymore with the modern iOS.

Equity is cool and all but any smart person will know that for every successful company there are 9 that go bad. What you need to remember is that most people have an employee mindset. They don't really care about passive income or assets. This is good because all you need to do is just pay them money. Give them money and they will do their job. Don't give up equity when you don't have to!

If your company DOES go big then you keep as much equity as possible. Like Felix Dennis says in his book "How to get rich",

Hmmm thanks for letting me know from this perspective. How come it become dead if you were working on it too?

I could see how some programmers would just want to be employees which I guess is why even profit sharing wouldn't work for them. The reason I liked the equity/profit sharing model is because it's a way for me to afford programming since I couldn't pay a ton of money upfront. Dang. I'm still not completely going to give up on this idea quite yet. There might be a young person with an entrepreneur mindset out there and I have lots of people to chose from since my limits are the internet, not local.

 

[rcdlopez]

Sorry, I got the date wrong. It wasn't in 09 it was probably late 2010 or 2011. He was inspired by the movie "The Social Network". Anytime someone watches a movie about a person who made it and gets inspired is a sign they are wantapreneurs.

The reason why it died was because things got stale. We had that initial momentum but then we didn't know where else to go from there. The app didn't have a point to it. Apps were hot back then, the modern day gold rush. It was stupid.

I have some advice on how to hire people without having much money and not giving up equity but right now I gotta run!! money money money money!!! Muuuuuuuuuuney! lol

 

[NicoleMarie]

Sorry, I got the date wrong. It wasn't in 09 it was probably late 2010 or 2011. He was inspired by the movie "The Social Network". Anytime someone watches a movie about a person who made it and gets inspired is a sign they are wantapreneurs.

The reason why it died was because things got stale. We had that initial momentum but then we didn't know where else to go from there. The app didn't have a point to it. Apps were hot back then, the modern day gold rush. It was stupid.

I have some advice on how to hire people without having much money and not giving up equity but right now I gotta run!! money money money money!!! Muuuuuuuuuuney! lol

Ah ok ha. Hmmm interesting. I see. Well any advice helps at this point! I'd really like to eventually have an ongoing programmer on board though. That would be better than having my mom as my "partner" lol. Sorry mom.

Ha ok. That reminds me of Spongebob.

 

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[InLikeFlint]

I don't think I have ever formed a partnership that I haven't regretted in the end. Perhaps I am just awful at choosing a business partner, but every time I am asking too much or being too knit picky and the partner slacks off and doesn't meet my expectations. It makes things messy and it is a pain in the a$$ to deal with. I understand why you or your mentor would feel this route is successful, because it is AWESOME to have someone to talk strategies with and to plan for the future with and to help you with the work load. Eventually I just made some kick a$$ friends all over the globe (both in person and through the world wide web) and they know everything about my business without being officially involved. Likewise, I know all about theirs and we help each other because that way we get the perspective and support we need without giving up control or a portion of the company. At the end of the day, I always am happy to compensate them if they need it, but it is out of my appreciation and it isn't expected, which makes it more of a gift and it ends up working well that way.

 

[NicoleMarie]

I don't think I have ever formed a partnership that I haven't regretted in the end. Perhaps I am just awful at choosing a business partner, but every time I am asking too much or being too knit picky and the partner slacks off and doesn't meet my expectations. It makes things messy and it is a pain in the a$$ to deal with. I understand why you or your mentor would feel this route is successful, because it is AWESOME to have someone to talk strategies with and to plan for the future with and to help you with the work load. Eventually I just made some kick a$$ friends all over the globe (both in person and through the world wide web) and they know everything about my business without being officially involved. Likewise, I know all about theirs and we help each other because that way we get the perspective and support we need without giving up control or a portion of the company. At the end of the day, I always am happy to compensate them if they need it, but it is out of my appreciation and it isn't expected, which makes it more of a gift and it ends up working well that way.

Hmmmm, interesting. I could see that happening. I agree, I did manage to find some forum buddies and it is in fact, awesome. I actually have left the idea of a partnership now but will still eventually need to find a longterm programmer (not sure if that would be a co founder). I hear investors prefer to buy companies with co founders but that's a different story haha. I still probably will keep my LLC though and not form an actual partnership.

Awesome. Do you just hire people then to do the technical stuff?

 

[InLikeFlint]

Awesome. Do you just hire people then to do the technical stuff?

Yes. Generally will have a freelance team or some sort of local company work on it for me. For example, I need a website and logo done and there is a really high quality company located in Detroit that is going to be working on them for me. They do some really solid work, they have similar modern taste that I do, and it is just a bonus that they are local. Then the freelancers get paid and the work gets done but you don't have to worry about giving up equity for A) Limited amount of work (Adding a programmer and running out of work for them to do and just having them sit around as a co-founder would suck) and B) Giving up a portion of equity or a position in the company that in the future is potentially worth hundred times more than the work itself. A prime example would be - I'll spare the details because I hardly remember them - An early stage Microsoft shareholder that would be a multi-billionaire based on shares that at one point were nearly worthless. At least I believe it was Microsoft...

 

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[NicoleMarie]

Yes. Generally will have a freelance team or some sort of local company work on it for me. For example, I need a website and logo done and there is a really high quality company located in Detroit that is going to be working on them for me. They do some really solid work, they have similar modern taste that I do, and it is just a bonus that they are local. Then the freelancers get paid and the work gets done but you don't have to worry about giving up equity for A) Limited amount of work (Adding a programmer and running out of work for them to do and just having them sit around as a co-founder would suck) and B) Giving up a portion of equity or a position in the company that in the future is potentially worth hundred times more than the work itself. A prime example would be - I'll spare the details because I hardly remember them - An early stage Microsoft shareholder that would be a multi-billionaire based on shares that at one point were nearly worthless. At least I believe it was Microsoft...

That's convenient. I have been told that outsourcing like that is good for small infrequent projects, although you have to have the money upfront. I suppose the hardest part would be hiring before your business makes money though. After that, you can just reinvest the profits and pay for another freelancer, I'm assuming. That is true, not sure how often the programmer would be needed. I do like the idea of finding someone who's also business oriented though so they could help with other things like brainstorming/creative problem solving or maybe even have several "jobs" but that might be too much lol. Don't want to overwork anyone.

Thanks for giving me something to think about. I'll have to show this thread to the original person who I talked to about this and see his opinions. There still might be another agreement I can reach.

 

[Get Threaded]

Re- Partners
I have tossed and turned about whether to bring in a partner, investors etc. Instead I went the franchise way so that I could still be the decision maker for the business but now have people invested in my business with the same mind-frame of wanting it to succeed. I might have quicker growth with investors but I am not interested in quick growth-instead long term stable business that is around in the future.

Re- Trusting Yourself
4 years into my business I am now really utilizing this and trusting that little voice and feeling inside. I would get caught up in people telling me-this is how you do this, or this is how it's done and it didn't feel right. Now when it doesn't feel right I look at it in the complete opposite of what others are telling me and I usually go this way-and with great success. In hindsight- the people I had been listening to were slowlaners. I have learnt that slowlaners are quick to give advice when not asked while fastlaners are happy to provide info if asked but are rarely the ones blabbing about how you should do things.

 

[NicoleMarie]

Re- Partners
I have tossed and turned about whether to bring in a partner, investors etc. Instead I went the franchise way so that I could still be the decision maker for the business but now have people invested in my business with the same mind-frame of wanting it to succeed. I might have quicker growth with investors but I am not interested in quick growth-instead long term stable business that is around in the future.

Re- Trusting Yourself
4 years into my business I am now really utilizing this and trusting that little voice and feeling inside. I would get caught up in people telling me-this is how you do this, or this is how it's done and it didn't feel right. Now when it doesn't feel right I look at it in the complete opposite of what others are telling me and I usually go this way-and with great success. In hindsight- the people I had been listening to were slowlaners. I have learnt that slowlaners are quick to give advice when not asked while fastlaners are happy to provide info if asked but are rarely the ones blabbing about how you should do things.

Good idea! I agree with you. I definitely need to decide when to take the advice I hear haha. Hmmm that's an interesting pattern. I think I might've noticed that too!

Thanks for the reply!

 

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