Made barely anything from erotica, any advice?

[MJ DeMarco]

But in the context of this problem that strategy doesn't seem to make much sense... if it did it would be working.

What does the average fiction writer using this strategy make?

Probably not a lot.

My theory on this is if someone writes 20 books, their writing improves by the 20th book that it is able to garner some eyeballs. Also, truth be told, there's some luck involved as Amazon might pick-up your book and toss it in its "Readers also bought" or "suggested" algorithm.

Everyone here knows how I feel about being product-centered; your product is everything. I'm not a fan of the "quantity game" and hoping it gains traction. But I respect it.

50 + 50 = 100

But so does

1 + 99.

There are multiple paths to a result.

 

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[gregarious18]

I like your covers. Make the first book in your Orange County "permafree" and upload to Google Play. Maybe find a few authors to create a BDSM box set for 0.99 cents. Marketing shouldn't be limited to buying ad space (if you do there are some cheap, but GREAT options like bknights on Fiveer). You have the content, you just need the eyeballs. But free downloads are a big help.

 

[sparklyshadows]

I didn't really stick with this, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents anyway.

I wrote 2 short stories and so far I've made about 15 bucks from it in the past 6 months. 11 bucks out of the 15 came from Smashwords, and not Amazon.

You mentioned that you only made one bundle- before I "tried" this idea, I read a bunch of AMAs by other erotica authors on reddit, and they all mentioned that most of their income came from their bundles. So, one piece of advice I have is to create a LOT of bundles out of your existing books with similar themes (maybe 3-4 books a bundle) and list them for $4.99

Honestly, this idea doesn't seem too lucrative to me anymore. The market is pretty saturated and it seems as though only the ones who got into this early enough are the ones making money. I still wouldn't give up on it, but I wouldn't make it my main project either.

Oh, you might wanna experiment with KDP select. Some authors had success with it, so you might want to experiment with just a title or two

 

[S928]

Per the article below, romance and on-fiction books sell best. Passing it for those who are interested.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/indep...augh-—-all-the-way-to-the-bank-213437913.html

 

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[Rawr]

Hmm...

I only read this one's sample. The Friend: (Orange County BDSM Erotica #7)

It is unclear who the main hero is talking to - is she talking to the reader like her gf, or her therapist? It is very strange vibe here. You have some unnecessary dialogue and descriptions as well. What I would do if I were you is go on a reading spree to get better at craft. Read 5 books that are top sellers, by different authors. Find one whose style you really like. Then as you'll start writing yours should improve too. From there spend some time on how to improve the craft itself (palunchuk has a collection of short lessons floating somewhere online) and you'll get even better after doing them. But read first. Get the "vibe' down. No vibe = hard to grab the person's hand and drag them in.

 

[Selfy]

I'm writing my third erotica book. Chose one at random. Milking fetish anyone?

I don't expect erotica to be as strong as romance to be honest. There are some trends that you can catch, and that's what I hope to accomplish with mine -- but all in all -- I think the money might not be in erotica, but rather, in romance. You know, the type of writing that needs plotting and character dialogues.

But from research, it seems most of the books in the erotica genre are hovering at high sales rank (slush pile). And the authors have a massive number of books in their library.

And did I mention that writing erotica require some skill to actually pull off? Yeah, it takes a special writer skill to sexually arouse someone with words. Lol.

I just don't foresee the numbers coming close to romance. And uneconomical to produce. However, if you do hit the target like how gender-pop guy hit his, you can expect your 1k a day.

Tell you one thing though, the foray into erotica will sure help my romance seks scenes.

 

[csalvato]

It's along the same lines as someone who builds a sales funnel or has multiple products within the same niche. In other words, you've got 5 books, someone discovers book #5, likes it and is inclined to buy the first 4 books.

That's exactly what I said though, so it seems I "get it" I guess...

Maybe by having tons of books, when you find one that does work, people are like "Oh let me see what other books this guy has written!" and your sales get an overall bump. Aside from that I am not understanding the logic/system that makes this possible.

Unless I'm still missing something.

But if I DO get it, then this seems like a very luck-based strategy. There's no market research. There's no customer/reader interviews. There's no gauging interest in previous work and driving your next book based on what the market is enjoying.

It seems like this strategy employs "Let me throw a bunch of shit at the wall, and if one sticks, I'll make more money because people will be curious about my other work."

Are a lot of people really getting rich like this? I have heard @ChickenHawk talk about her business before, and while she says she does "no marketing" it sounds like she does a whole lot more than just throwing [high quality] shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks, then assuming people will just buy her other work.

You mean to tell me a podcast or being a "Featured author" somewhere outside of amazon wouldn't help? Giving away a free chapter to a captive audience isn't as worthwhile as writing more books to throw up on Amazon, hoping it's recognized by their organic system? That it wouldn't be worthwhile to selectively plant your books in front of the eyes of key influences and book reviewers?

To me that strategy is very 1-dimensional. But then again, I have a way of overthinking things.

Personally, whenever I have created a product (whether thats a book, software or website) without first seeing if there was need and demand for such a product, I have completely and utterly wasted my time. Each of my successful products involved 2-8 weeks of research,then creating one great "product" that knocks it out of the park, and gets in front of the right eyeballs.

Granted, I'm not rich at the moment, only generating about $30k-ish in ARR, but I do know if I never did that research I would be at $0 ARR, because of the experiences I had in creating before validating...

 

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[Magik]

But if I DO get it, then this seems like a very luck-based strategy. There's no market research. There's no customer/reader interviews. There's no gauging interest in previous work and driving your next book based on what the market is enjoying.

The market loves romance and erotica. It sells better than any other genres on Amazon, and actually outsell print books in their own genres. The OPs problem is not her genre. We could argue that she needs to get feedback from readers and then adjust with her next books, but marketing will do that for her.

It seems like this strategy employs "Let me throw a bunch of shit at the wall, and if one sticks, I'll make more money because people will be curious about my other work."

This only works if you have fans, traffic, or decent rankings on Amazon to begin with. This also works if someone, for whatever reason, decides to buy one of your books. If he or she likes it, then they buy some of the others you have.

Are a lot of people really getting rich like this? I have heard @ChickenHawk talk about her business before, and while she says she does "no marketing" it sounds like she does a whole lot more than just throwing [high quality] shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks, then assuming people will just buy her other work.

For one, she writes good stuff. She knows what she is doing at a technical/structural level. She also writes in a great genre (romantic thriller I believe?). Beyond that, she has said that she doesn't know why her books took off. My guess is she got sales early and got ranked well on Amazon, plus her work is good enough to make people tell their friends about it.

You mean to tell me a podcast or being a "Featured author" somewhere outside of amazon wouldn't help? Giving away a free chapter to a captive audience isn't as worthwhile as writing more books to throw up on Amazon, hoping it's recognized by their organic system? That it wouldn't be worthwhile to selectively plant your books in front of the eyes of key influences and book reviewers?
To me that strategy is very 1-dimensional. But then again, I have a way of overthinking things.

All of those things do help, sometimes exponentially. I'm about to start paying to be featured on fiction blogs and have influencers tweet about me, etc. Amazon already gives a sample chapter before you buy. The OPs problem (and my problem) is that she is buried on Amazon. No one can find her books. She needs marketing to get eyes upon it. Some of them will buy some books, thus driving her rankings further up the charts, wash rinse repeat.

Personally, whenever I have created a product (whether thats a book, software or website) without first seeing if there was need and demand for such a product, I have completely and utterly wasted my time.

There is a huge demand for fiction (especially romance related genres), but the problem is that a shitload of people are already filling it. As MJ says, E absolves E. When there's demand but low entry barriers, excellence and execution become mandatory for success, along with consistency. No one can find the OPs work, so she needs to market for a while and see whether people like her work or don't. If they don't, she will need to start over. Marketing can't fix a bad product. It can certainly help a great one, and even an average one, but not a bad one. The OP needs market feedback before publishing anything else.

 

[Gale4rc]

Quick tips to market your book(s)-

• E-mail podcasts in your genre and ask to go on
• Blog - Start it and distribute it in relevant social networking communities
• Contact bloggers in your genre and build relationships with them - Ask them to read a couple pages. From there see if they will tell their audience about your book(s)
• Local offline marketing - Go to meetup.com find some womens groups and pimp out your books. Theres a ton of groups you can be apart of
• Get local PR - you have a book dedicated to Orange county I saw. Do something the local newspapers will want to pick up and write about. Think guerrilla marketing.

With just these 5 tactics you can without a doubt grow your book business.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Let me throw a bunch of shit at the wall, and if one sticks, I'll make more money because people will be curious about my other work.

The problem is the shit itself, not the throwing part. Shit might stick, but it also stinks. And people tend to toss stinky shit in the trash.

As MJ says, E absolves E.

For those who don't know what that means ... Excellence absolves Entry.

This is why this stuff is not Fastlane. Notice how all the money chasers are now involved in this game. And they're flooding the market with less than great stuff. And then when things aren't going well, they are not willing to commit to excellence and instead, opt to go look for the next easier thing.

 

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[csalvato]

The OP needs market feedback before publishing anything else.

We're not on opposite sides of the fence here. I actually agree with you 100%.

I was just confused, because the strategy of just 'writing more' seems fatally flawed. It seems like you agree with this.

It doesn't matter if all 23 of these books are PURE GOLD; unless it gets found outside of Amazon, it won't move higher up in the rankings. You seem to agree with this, and I should check your progress thread to see how your promotion goes.

The problem is the shit itself, not the throwing part. Shit might stick, but it also stinks. And people tend to toss stinky shit in the trash.

I agree. That's why if you spend the time to write top-quality stuff, you really need to kick and scream to make sure it doesn't go to the bottom of Amazon.

How do you do that? Get a LOT of people to buy one of your existing books. Ideally, relatively quickly and all at the same time.

Thinking outside the Amazon box, there's dozens of ways to do that:

• Podcasts
• Blogger book reviews
• Professional book reviews (from real critics)
• Creating a website where you share content (this was how John Dies at the End turned into a cult classic, and kickstarted David Wong's career at Cracked.com)
• Book readings at local shops
• Book club meetups
• Reddit posts in subreddits like /r/writing, /r/erotica, /r/gonewildstories, etc.
• Erotica forum postings
• Collecting email addresses and building relationships

All of these seem like a better option to me than just writing more books for Amazon that don't sell.

Some people might get lucky and just get "found" on Amazon. But IMHO you won't get "found" until you get a whole horde of people to buy your book all at once so you bump up the rankings....then you stay there because you are in the top 100 or whatever.

I wouldn't leave it to luck that my book would be found like a diamond in the rough of Amazon's search.

Again, there may be something I just don't "get" about the way Amazon's search works. If that's the case, I'd love to know so I can benefit from it myself.

 

[Selfy]

There's no market research.

Except that there's a ton of market research before writing a book.

Check out @Held for Ransom's thread. He even has scripts to automate his market research. Market research is the game in this field. Especially in kdp.

Everything gets measured out before the first word even gets typed.

 

[csalvato]

Except that there's a ton of market research before writing a book.

Check out @Held for Ransom's thread. He even has scripts to automate his market research. Market research is the game in this field. Especially in kdp.

Everything gets measured out before the first word even gets typed.

We're getting mixed signals here. I am saying market research is VERY important. I am saying OP is not doing that. Other Amazon self-publishers are saying they don't do any market research. I gave my opinion as someone who was heavily involved in a book that has generated nearly 500k in revenues over 2 years.

 

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[Selfy]

Quick tips to market your book(s)-

• E-mail podcasts in your genre and ask to go on
• Blog - Start it and distribute it in relevant social networking communities
• Contact bloggers in your genre and build relationships with them - Ask them to read a couple pages. From there see if they will tell their audience about your book(s)
• Local offline marketing - Go to meetup.com find some womens groups and pimp out your books. Theres a ton of groups you can be apart of
• Get local PR - you have a book dedicated to Orange county I saw. Do something the local newspapers will want to pick up and write about. Think guerrilla marketing.

With just these 5 tactics you can without a doubt grow your book business.

Only prob with this is by the time you go around doing all that, you could have finished another book (or two). Write more so you get more books out there --- depending on your niche. Again this is fiction, not selling coconut-oil ebook.

 

[Selfy]

I sell about $1k/month for one eBook that also comes with a video package. It's non-fiction -- and not erotica.

I make very little money on Amazon (only about $100/month)...most of my sales come through direct marketing through email. People sign up for my list for an interesting "hook" then I show them 2 chapters of my book and provide value for the next 30 days. About 2% buy a book/video package.

Truth is, he was doing a ton of work building up a reputation on various forums for about 3 years before writing a word of his book. Then a bunch of the forum people bough it, and told all their friends. It created a positive feedback loop.

This is a non-fiction book, not exactly the same.. unless it's coconut-oil then backend to a coconut affiliate product? Great job with the 100k revenue though. Thats great. I'm guessing you use Amazon as another marketing channel.

 

[csalvato]

This is a non-fiction book, not exactly the same..

What makes it different? I am genuinely curious.

 

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[Selfy]

What makes it different? I am genuinely curious.

Generally non-fiction you are solving a specific problem.
"how to get laid with girls"
"how to use coconut oil"
"how to program"
"how to make money"

In fiction, you make shit up.
"The guy who used to program is now making money selling coconut oil and getting girls."

 

[csalvato]

Generally non-fiction you are solving a specific problem.
"how to get laid with girls"
"how to use coconut oil"
"how to program"
"how to make money"

In fiction, you make shit up.
The guy who used to program is now making money selling coconut oil and getting girls.

1. The OP is having a problem getting people to buy their books through organic Amazon search
2. OP is "emulating" @Held for Ransom (in that he is using him as inspiration...but isn't doing ANYTHING like HfR at all)
3. OP is not doing market research
4. OP is not using keywords in his titles
5. OP is not sure why his stuff is not being found

Following OP's original course of action and just writing more books using this same formula is not going to work. If it was, it would have worked by now.

Either he has to do some promotion akin to what I am talking about, or he has to actually really start emulating people like HfR by doing real Amazon Search Optimization and Amazon KW research.

You need to do SOME kind of marketing. My list was clearly not exaustive.

Fiction and non-fiction aren't so different after all.

Hell, selling soap isn't that different to selling fiction.

 

[csalvato]

Its amazing how few people rip off this model.

John Dies at the End from Wikipedia:

John Dies at the End is a comichorror novel written by David Wong that was first published online as a webserial beginning in 2001, then as an edited manuscript in 2004, and a printed paperback in 2007, published by Permuted Press. An estimated 70,000 people read the free online versions before they were removed in September 2008. Thomas Dunne Books published the story with additional material as a hardcover on September 29, 2009.[1] The book was followed by a sequel, This Book Is Full of Spiders, in 2012.
​

This turned into a feature film.

I know of no other book that started in the same way, aside from my own...which took about 1/100 of the time of JDatE.

 

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[Selfy]

Chickenhawk and HeldforRansom didn't do marketing. Their threads are stickied here. Held for Ransom took only 300+ hours of writing to get his 15k/month income. He didnt create a product (thousands of hours), he didnt create sales funnel(hundreds of hours), he dint do forum marketing (hundreds of hours) He just sat down, using only his time&energy.

Op needs to identify a hungry market then write books in that market.

if market insatiability is greater than market production, then he will sell.

his genre, I feel is not it. Do market research on "tentacles" and emulate as close as possible to top-sellers.

Op theres also something off with the covers. If you really want to follow Held For Ransom, now is not the time to be creative.

*If you're going to be dedicating 25 hours per book with a half-life of 7 days in the new-top-sellers; you gotta make sure its a fast moving niche.

 

[csalvato]

Chickenhawk and HeldforRansom didn't do marketing. Their threads are stickied here. Held for Ransom took only 300+ hours of writing to get his 15k/month income. He didnt create a product (thousands of hours), he didnt create sales funnel(hundreds of hours), he dint do forum marketing (hundreds of hours) He just sat down, using only his time&energy.

Hm...that's not what HfR says in his thread...

Not being a writer myself (thank God for Word's spell and grammar checker!), I relied heavily on my ability to do market research and understand the Amazon ecosystem throughly (in terms of keywords). In my mind, this is definitely what has made me successful in this so far. Aside from that, I am an expert in creating catchy titles, coming up with eye grabbing covers, writing enticing descriptions and hooking folks when they "Look Inside" at the first 10-12% of my books

Market research = marketing

 

[Selfy]

It's exactly what @Held for Ransom said except he makes the distinction of marketing as 'market research' and 'promotional marketing'. Basically he doesnt waste time promoting his book in different channels, he just writes another book using market research as quickly as possible.

Another key difference of HFR, from, presumably, your business model...

1.) @Held for Ransom didn't create coconut oil (his product)

2.) Then make a website with registration systems and shipping systems (his distribution systems)'

3.) Then wrote a non-fiction book "how to use coconut oil" (his marketing)

Nope.

Held For Ransom, wrote fiction. And he wrote quickly and in well-placed niches. No marketing, approaching book bloggers- all that malarcky.

As a side note, I think OP will not do very well with marketing his book. Not these sets of book. Erotica is a churn-them and leave them for the horny toads business. If it was science fiction, or romance, maybe marketing would help.

 

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[csalvato]

Erotica is a churn-them and leave them for the horny toads business. If it was science fiction, or romance, maybe marketing would help.

Maybe if you look at Amazon as your only channel...yeah..

But I think EL James might disagree.

 

[ChickenHawk]

I have heard @ChickenHawk talk about her business before, and while she says she does "no marketing" it sounds like she does a whole lot more than just throwing [high quality] shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks, then assuming people will just buy her other work.

Actually, this is exactly what I did, except I didn't "assume" anything. I did zero marketing. I didn't even have a Facebook, twitter or Web presence. I just wrote the very best book I could in a niche that seemed to have a lot of buyers.

But here's what I DID do. I wrote a full-length novel. I designed a professional-looking cover. I wrote a compelling blurb. And, here's the thing -- I had over twenty years of professional writing experience behind me. You know how they talk about needing to invest 10,000 hours before you're good at something? Well, I have 10,000 hours and then some. Maybe that's a factor.

Repeatedly, people ask what sort of marketing I did. I get it. People want the "easy" button. But there is no easy button. It's true that I could benefit from marketing, but marketing isn't what made my book break out. What did? I wish I knew! But it sure as hell wasn't marketing, because I didn't do any.

But here's the sad truth...If you have a product that for whatever reason people don't want, all the marketing in the world isn't going to get you the results you want.

 

[csalvato]

It's true that I could benefit from marketing, but marketing isn't what made my book break out. What did? I wish I knew!

Something did make your book break out, though.

Maybe it was right place at the right time (with the awesome book and 10000 hours to to back it up). Maybe you spoke to the right person in a bar, who shared your book with their best friend's aunt, who runs a high impact twitter feed and you didn't even realize it.

But there was some way that your book got in front of a LOT of the right eyes at the right time. They Amazon makes sure it stood there.

I totally agree that you need an awesome product. In fact, if OP doesn't think at least one of their books is awesome enough to promote and tell EVERYONE, then he should go back and make something he's really proud of.

But if he DOES love it, and it IS a great book, then at least SOME marketing should be involved...especially if this strat isn't working for him. The more calculated, the better IMHO.

 

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[GuestUser116]

my book

What is your book about? link?

 

[ChickenHawk]

What is your book about? link?

It's a contemporary romance. I'm sorry, but I don't share my pen name, so I won't be providing a link. I know many people here do, and I really admire them for it. But for various reasons, that's just not me.

 

[Mattie]

I have to laugh because I know a lot of published authors, and non, but the funniest one was a guy that was an ex-con. He wrote like a 51 page poetry book and spammed the feed on face book every day, went out to radio stations, went to like beauty salons, and just places in his neighborhood in New York. Had it on Amazon for online. In one week he was so overwhelmed and didn't know what to do because it was getting popular and getting media attention right away. So I think it just depends on how much effort you put into it.

There are many people I know that say the same thing. They have marketing problems and getting their book seen. Social media seems to be the best bet, as what I've seen. Having a website, and spreading the book around on all the social media's. Exactly, why I haven't thrown my book out there without being edited first by a professional.

The erotica writers I know are through a publisher that promotes and markets for them, besides having their website and using social media. Even they end up selling for .99 cents for three books on certain days or give one free for a certain amount of days on Amazon and spread it around on Facebook. These are authors already doing book signings and making money with publishers again.

I know one of my friends that self published went to book stores and asked to do book signings. When I went to a writers workshop some of the best publishers all stated you have to promote your book these days, they're not doing it like they used to for you. So it's kind of like you have to make use of what ever avenue you can.

There are a lot of people that listen to audio books on you tube. You can make a recording yourself of a little intro to your book. Podcasts, you tube, twitter, talk blog radio, you just have to decide whether you really want to sell it, just like any other project on here.

 

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[LIkeafox]

I think the big problem with selling novels as opposed to non-fiction books is that non-fiction books generally address a need and seek to fulfill it. I want to lose weight - buy a diet book that promises I'll lose weight. I want to get start a business - buy a book that promises you riches. Fiction isn't as easily defined. EL James happened to luck into hitting on something that apparently a lot of women wanted to read about and she got the attention for it and made a whole lot of money for herself and Vintage. Short of being able to tap into the psyche of people and capture something that people are just dying to read novels about but which aren't on the market you've got to make your prospective readers feel like they have a need to fulfill through your book. Who cares about a boy wizard? Or some teenage girl from a poverty stricken district of a dystopian state. Millions of people want to know what happened to them. Why did people start buying up copies of an obscure turn of the century collection of horror stories called, "The King in Yellow"? because they thought it would answer question they had about the TV show, or why would do people who probably never thought they would buy a fantasy novel find themselves in the Sci-Fi section of bookstores George R.R. Martin books? Because they have a need to know what is going to happen in the TV show.

About the OP, why should the reader care about the babysitter? Or maybe the babysitter isn't all that important, but why do people read erotica novels? They want to get hot and bothered. They want to get off. They want the fantasy that the story can provide. Sell the reader on how hot it is, appeal to their desires and fantasies, let them read your book description and think, wow, this is the book that will do it for me! And then deliver it to them.

It's not about the quality of the writing, it's about promising the reader to fulfill a need and delivering on it. As long as the writing is serviceable and isn't so chockfull of errors that it causes the spell to be broken between the reader and the story you probably write well enough to sell a million copies, as long as you are writing something that people want to read and you can get them to notice you. Dan Brown and James Patterson aren't great writers, the technically best writers are selling barely anything and have to teach in colleges for a paycheck. This is partially a marketing problem but more it's because they aren't fulfilling a need that a large market is looking to have satisfied.

This sounds really obvious here on Fastlane but you'd be amazed at how many books don't focus on fulfilling a need or are just fulfilling a need that countless other similar looking products are also fulfilling.

For the OP I'd recommend first having some people who you don't know and who aren't afraid to tell you what they think of your stories give you their opinions. Don't ask your friends. They will lie to you or they will be just impressed that you wrote something that you can buy on Amazon. When people give you their opinion don't argue with them, you won't be able to argue with your readers. Just see what they say, see if there are things you can improve on. You get one shot with most readers unless you change your pen name.

Next, if it's possible because I'm not sure if you can buy ads on Facebook for erotica novels, but if you can, buy some Facebook ads targeted at Orange County. This is the unique thing you are bringing to your books, aim for that niche. Aim for frustrated women in Orange County who would like to enter into a fantasy world where they can think that this could happen to them.

 

[Mattie]

I agree with you. I may have just been hanging around toomany authors the last few years that were so worried about editing and publishing the right way. Until I got on the Fastlane I thought differently. I suppose that is what pen names are for. I used a pen name but fortunately my local newspaper decided to put my real name with my writings.

So this is the thing, if the media wants your real name to validate source and publishes publicly what use is a pen name. lol