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HOT TOPIC Luck shouldn't play such a big role in financial success

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fastlanedoll

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thechosen1

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There are two possibilites:

1. Luck plays a huge role in success.
2. Luck doesn't play a huge role in success.

Either way, you should do the same thing: put forth as much effort as necessary into being successful, if that is the outcome you desire.

So it doesn't matter :D Isn't that beautiful?
 

bracknelson

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There are two possibilites:

1. Luck plays a huge role in success.
2. Luck doesn't play a huge role in success.

Either way, you should do the same thing: put forth as much effort as necessary into being successful, if that is the outcome you desire.

So it doesn't matter :D Isn't that beautiful?
Of course, there could be two different possibilities. But in both cases, you need to work hard. Yes, I agree if you are lucky there is much possibility to get success very soon and on the other hand, an unlucky person might suffer from lots of hardships, failures, struggle. But in my opinion, only an unlucky person can feel the real success.
 

luniac

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Like the title says, i think luck plays a far too strong role in achieving financial success. I argue that the people at the very top are almost always there because of conditions they couldn't influence:

1. being born in a first world country
2. having a healthy body
3. having a healthy mind
4. access to good infrastructure
5. accesss to good education
6. equality of opportunity
7. people who support you with money and experience

I know hard work is necessary, but take one of these factors out of the equation and it's very likely that you won't achieve financial success in your life.
I also believe, that the first 3 reasons are pure chance, 4 + 5 + 6 are the responsibility of governments and 7 is the responsibility of your parents.

Now, i have an idea for a nonprofit organisation which could solve number 7. This organisation uses an online platform, where people share their life situation and their goal in order to find someone who supports them with their experience and maybe their money. So people who are highly motivated and willing to work hard but don't have parents with a gold mine could find some sort of mentor who knows about their life situation and they can work together until the goals is achieved.

I don't know if money should be involved since it would attract a lot of scammers but maybe it is possible with a milestone system, just like Upwork, where you get some money after you achieved the milestone.

So what do you think? Good idea, bad idea? Did i miss something?

Yea you're 100% right, so now what you gonna do with your life?
 

WJK

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There are a lot of children that aren't going to be lucky enough to encounter someone like you to begin with (I'd wager the majority of children in situations you described won't encounter someone like you).

The exception proves the rule

Also no, not everyone is given a "special gift", that is quite literally not how reality works, some people are born with literally no redeeming characteristics (well not redeeming enough to help them carve out a path in life for themselves). Also some people are born into circumstances they will never escape (like being born a poor child in Africa destined to starve to death, only living a short life filled with suffering).

Reality doesn't play out like something nice you'd read on a hallmark card.

Your son did great, but again, he's the exception, most people with that level of disability will go on to accomplish nothing and will probably have to live on welfare.

On another note, I am really glad my parents were great and my mother wasn't the type to drink whilst pregnant. Your story is actually a perfect example of the "roll of the dice" we are all at the mercy of. Were all helpless in the womb and everything our mother consumes affects our growth and potential, and its completely out of our control.
I don't see the world like you see it. I have mentored -- and I still mentor several people. You're right. Most of the time, it doesn't work. The whole process usually fails. BUT, when it works, it's worth all the effort and all the failures.

I have a woman who I helped over the last year. She was considered disability because they thought she was retarded. She's not. When I met her, I hooked her up with the local tutoring program. She was reading on the 3rd grade level. With the help of her tutor, now she is reading on a high school level. She's past her test and acquired a learner's permit for driving. She now working on her GED. She wants to become a nurse. For the first time in her life, she's standing up for herself. I found out that when she was about 11 years old, her mother sold her to a cousin. Her mother got $1,000 per month and the cousin bought this girl as a sex slave. No wonder she with drew into herself...

If there's life, there is hope.
 

fastlanedoll

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I don't see the world like you see it. I have mentored -- and I still mentor several people. You're right. Most of the time, it doesn't work. The whole process usually fails. BUT, when it works, it's worth all the effort and all the failures.

I have a woman who I helped over the last year. She was considered disability because they thought she was retarded. She's not. When I met her, I hooked her up with the local tutoring program. She was reading on the 3rd grade level. With the help of her tutor, now she is reading on a high school level. She's past her test and acquired a learner's permit for driving. She now working on her GED. She wants to become a nurse. For the first time in her life, she's standing up for herself. I found out that when she was about 11 years old, her mother sold her to a cousin. Her mother got $1,000 per month and the cousin bought this girl as a sex slave. No wonder she with drew into herself...

If there's life, there is hope.

That's horrible.

It's shit like this that makes you realize how lucky you are. Forget about making a billion dollars. Just be glad you weren't sold as a sex slave.
 

ShepardHumphries

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Like the title says, i think luck plays a far too strong role in achieving financial success. I argue that the people at the very top are almost always there because of conditions they couldn't influence:

1. being born in a first world country
2. having a healthy body
3. having a healthy mind
4. access to good infrastructure
5. accesss to good education
6. equality of opportunity
7. people who support you with money and experience

I know hard work is necessary, but take one of these factors out of the equation and it's very likely that you won't achieve financial success in your life.
I also believe, that the first 3 reasons are pure chance, 4 + 5 + 6 are the responsibility of governments and 7 is the responsibility of your parents.

Now, i have an idea for a nonprofit organisation which could solve number 7. This organisation uses an online platform, where people share their life situation and their goal in order to find someone who supports them with their experience and maybe their money. So people who are highly motivated and willing to work hard but don't have parents with a gold mine could find some sort of mentor who knows about their life situation and they can work together until the goals is achieved.

I don't know if money should be involved since it would attract a lot of scammers but maybe it is possible with a milestone system, just like Upwork, where you get some money after you achieved the milestone.

So what do you think? Good idea, bad idea? Did i miss something?
I too have read that book, and also what Nassem Talib said about it. Good points in part. Many people who do all the Top 10 lists of 1) work hard, 2) be passionate, etc don't wind up like the billionaire being interviewed who credit working hard, being passionate etc. I get it.

It occurs to me that we are all born with certain pros and cons, and how we design and conduct our lives plays a big role. Over the last 10 years, everyone on this forum could have afforded 100 BTC, which today would allow you to retire. Some bought, some didn't. Luck? Kinda, but when I first bought BTC in 2014 at $300-ish, it was because I was at an anarcho-capitalist conference and speakers discussed it and some guy sold me a couple hundred dollars worth.

Was it luck that I choose to live in a wealthy geographical location? (mom and I moved here in 89 when I was 16, she worked as a maid at motel 6, and I worked as a dishwasher) Was it luck that a wealthy girlfriend years ago told me, "The closer you are to the money, the more stress you will have, and the more money that will rub off on you." Was it "luck" that I failed a bunch of businesses, and then finally made one work nicely so that I could afford to travel to a conference? Was it "luck" that I was at THAT conference as a result of study done after being in politics and getting disgusted with the government? Was it luck that I met a btc geek that had enough patience to teach me and help me? Was it "luck" that I bought less than one coin? Was it luck that I spent 90% of that coin at that conference? Was it "luck" that I lost the keys for the remaining little bit?

"Privilege" exists for all of us. Luck certainly plays a role. The stoics suggest that we accept that which we can not change, and focus on what we can change. I can live in a wealthy county, I can read hundreds of books, I can make hundreds of videos, I can bla bla bla... these things don't guarantee me success. They are however, within the pile of things that I can control, and somehow good things frequently "happen" to me.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fngbyY_M790&t=2s
 

Wout Haksteen

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Luck is completely relative. Of course, growing up in America instead of some third world country could be described as 'luck'. However, you could suggest that being succesful is also relative. If you grew up in a very poor country and somehow moved to the US and got a middle-class paycheck that would probably make you see yourself as succesful.

If people born in America were so 'lucky', how come less than 10% of all working class citizens make more than 100k a year?

The point is, there is always someone 'luckier' than you. Working your a$$ off will get you financially succesful, regardless of how 'unlucky' you may be.
 

MakeItHappen

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Of course, there is a lot of luck involved. If you are born into a 3rd world country, you are sick and can't attend school your chances are slim. If you have an IQ of 50 you likely can work as hard as you want but you will only enjoy limited success.

But given that you are born into the first world, you are quite smart, healthy and you have huge ambition as well as drive what is the upper ceiling in terms of net worth before you have to get lucky?

@JScott thanks for your insightful answers. I think a lot of your potential net worth also comes down to the industry you choose. If you have a business model that isn't too risky and allows you to grow 30% per year for a long time you will get very far.
As an example, I think of Grand Cardone. He isn't in a risky business like a silicon valley startup. He likely has great cash flow and good profit margins. He reinvests pretty much everything into real estate and since he continues to increase his audience he will likely continue to grow year after year. I think it's not unlikely to expect him to become a billionaire in his lifetime.
Of course, you could argue that he got lucky for using social media right from the beginning or something like that but so have many other people. If I look at someone like Grant Cardone I see someone that chooses a business model that isn't risky but has the potential to grow for years to come at a great rate.

Or let's say an entrepreneur is specialized in running nursing homes and keep acquiring more and more nursing homes. If he has the skill to own a lot of nursing homes, say 100+ and works on this as a goal for 20 years shouldn't he be able to get to the $50 million dollar range without having to get lucky... just grinding it out like Grant Cardone day after day.

I once heard of a gentleman that owned over 80 fast-food franchises. If the gentleman has the skill to run many businesses isn't the factor of luck rather small?

Of course, you have to be very skilled and take a certain type of risk if you buy businesses but given the skill needed to succeed is luck really that big of a factor if you choose the right business modell / strategy?

I am just curious and would like to get your opinion on it.
 
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Kal-El1998

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I like to paraphrase Jim Rohn with this. Sometimes income can take a lucky jump, but if you want to keep it, you have to learn how to meet it. I probably butchered it but something like that.
 

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WJK

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Of course, there is a lot of luck involved. If you are born into a 3rd world country, you are sick and can't attend school your chances are slim. If you have an IQ of 50 you likely can work as hard as you want but you will only enjoy limited success.

But given that you are born into the first world, you are quite smart, healthy and you have huge ambition as well as drive what is the upper ceiling in terms of net worth before you have to get lucky?

@JScott thanks for your insightful answers. I think a lot of your potential net worth also comes down to the industry you choose. If you have a business model that isn't too risky and allows you to grow 30% per year for a long time you will get very far.
As an example, I think of Grand Cardone. He isn't in a risky business like a silicon valley startup. He likely has great cash flow and good profit margins. He reinvests pretty much everything into real estate and since he continues to increase his audience he will likely continue to grow year after year. I think it's not unlikely to expect him to become a billionaire in his lifetime.
Of course, you could argue that he got lucky for using social media right from the beginning or something like that but so have many other people. If I look at someone like Grant Cardone I see someone that chooses a business model that isn't risky but has the potential to grow for years to come at a great rate.

Or let's say an entrepreneur is specialized in running nursing homes and keep acquiring more and more nursing homes. If he has the skill to own a lot of nursing homes, say 100+ and works on this as a goal for 20 years shouldn't he be able to get to the $50 million dollar range without having to get lucky... just grinding it out like Grant Cardone day after day.

I once heard of a gentleman that owned over 80 fast-food franchises. If the gentleman has the skill to run many businesses isn't the factor of luck rather small?

Of course, you have to be very skilled and take a certain type of risk if you buy businesses but given the skill needed to succeed is luck really that big of a factor if you choose the right business modell / strategy?

I am just curious and would like to get your opinion on it.
It's a little bit of both. Part of it is the timing of when you start. Part of it is your skills. And most of it is your "dogged determination" to continue no matter what. People who are really successful don't know that they can quit. They'll say, "Just a minute. I've got to try this one more time... and do it this way... that I just thought of..." and then they do it. Life has a built in appreciation for that kind of determination. It's also called the Law of Attraction. Whatever you obsessively think about seems to move toward you almost magically. The right people and situations show up. You must be prepared & ready to accept Life's gift.
(Or this law can work against you if you worry and fret about bad things happening.)
It also has to do with your right and your ability to rewrite your story. How you got here to this moment and place, belongs to you, and you alone. You can give yourself a central hero role in your story, or you can see yourself as a pawn in the Game of Life. Heroes make strong causes. They take action. They save the lady in distress -- find that she is a princess -- marry her -- to become the king-in-waiting. Heroes slay the dragons -- save the kingdom -- and get crowned.
(They aren't just young profiteers out trying to steal the king's daughter to hold her for ransom. They aren't the down-trodden serf tilling in the king's field.)
Rewrite your story to highlight your strengths and your accomplishments. You've done what with your life?
 

axelle99

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Votre façon d'attribuer beaucoup à la chance.

1-6 couvre la plupart des gens dans la plupart des pays occidentaux. Et pourtant, qu'ont fait la plupart des gens de cette «chance»? Réponse: rien.

Je pourrais voir 7 comme étant plus rare. Cependant, ce n'est pas la responsabilité de votre cercle social. Les gens n'ont pas la responsabilité de vous soutenir avec de l'expérience et de l'argent. Vous avez la responsabilité.
Et pas seulement cela, mais votre cercle social est un choix. Avec qui choisissez-vous de vous entourer?

La chance ne dicte pas le succès. Il y a sans aucun doute des événements de chance dans la vie. Bon et mauvais. Mais ce qui compte, c'est ce que vous faites de cet événement de chance. Êtes-vous prêt à affronter des événements de malchance? Êtes-vous prêt à rencontrer des événements porte-bonheur? Et quand vous le faites, que faites-vous avec? Agissez-vous?

Les événements de chance sont faciles, le plus dur est tout le travail que vous avez à faire après le fait pour capitaliser sur l'événement de chance.

Je n'ai aucun problème avec votre idée de créer une plate-forme pour rassembler les gens. Cela pourrait être une excellente idée. Mais arrêtez de vous fier autant à la chance. LES CHOIX ont un impact beaucoup plus grand sur votre succès.

En donnant autant de poids à la chance, vous volez le crédit du travail acharné et des choix que les gens qui réussissent ont faits. Et vous configurez des personnes qui ne réussissent pas encore pour ne pas réussir. Vous continuez simplement le lavage de cerveau que la chance est le facteur primordial. Et dans un système où votre succès dépend de la chance, alors pourquoi feriez-vous jamais de gros efforts pour réussir? Vous pourriez aussi bien vous asseoir et attendre que la «chance» vous frappe. Et puis plaignez-vous que vous n'avez pas de chance et que ceux qui ont réussi # $% & * ont simplement eu de la chance et c'est la seule différence entre vous et eux.
Cette mentalité est en train de devenir un cancer dans notre société et prive les gens de leur potentiel.
je continuerai même en disant on a tous une certaine chance dans la vie (la vie, santé un toit où vivre, entre, voir etc...) certaines personnes se focalisent sur des chances grandioses (vendre une appli à 20000000 $ etc.) ) tout en oubliant tout le travail en amont
Quelqu'un a dit on a tous des opportunité dans la vie la différence c'est que faite vous de vos opportunité
Quelqu'un d'autre à dit que la chance c'est quand la préparation rencontre l'opportunité.
Un moment donné il faut arrêter la victimisation et prendre sa responsabilité putain!
 

axelle99

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Le succès prend généralement plusieurs essais. Il y a un cycle d'échecs et de succès et d'échecs et de succès ... Vous voyez l'idée. Il faut beaucoup de courage pour y arriver. Et je connais très peu de gens qui l'ont fait en 10 ans sans que ce "truc de l'échec" ne les ramène à recommencer. Ils disent qu'il faut environ 3 cycles pour en savoir suffisamment et avoir suffisamment de compétences pour s'accrocher au succès ...
pour moi ce que les gens appellent échec ne l'est pas. C'est comme ce qu'a dit Thomas Edison : "je n'ai pas échouer 1000 fois j'ai juste essayé plusieurs façons de le faire"
et cela résume très bien ma pensée
 

Kak

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I am reminded of this again:


For those embracing the luck argument... Why are you here? Why did you sign up on an entrepreneurial forum? Was that choice or luck? You signed up for an account by chance, or you made the good decision to become part of a learning community?

There is a belief in your own ability and decision making that is almost required in some form or fashion to have even ended up here.

Simultaneously declaring that success is luck while being here and striving to do better through increased knowledge, wisdom, cutting the learning curve is hypocrisy.

The argument about inheritance is laughable. Someone, in the lineage, created the value that made that money. It wasn't luck to them, it was making good decisions.
 
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Alfie321

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At some point it doesn't matter if you have the necessary conditions, but what you do with those conditions. I'm not from a first world country (I'm from Mexico), while i was not born into poverty, I didn't have any particular advantage other than perhaps early internet access, and some luck with how my parents raised me and the values I picked as a result of it.

* I was eating ok, but my parents didn't know nutrition at all
* My mind was ok, as most people's mind is.
* My education was at public school
* I actually didn't have equality of opportunity. I had to work to make money while studying, meanwhile the government aid with scholarships to people that to this day are not graduated.
* I did have people who supported me with experience, but this was because I was actively looking for them. I went to bars and clubs and talked to anyone who wanted to talk. Anyone could get access to the same kinds of people with enough effort.

There was a time when I was going everyday to the library to save on electricity and internet, and you would be surprised how empty this thing was. Everyday.

Access is there for a lot of people, at least those who have access to the internet, and there's no excuse other than you simply value other things over making money, which is fine.
 

JScott

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The argument about inheritance is laughable. Someone, in the lineage, created the value that made that money. It wasn't luck to them, it was making good decisions.

Do you believe that we can simply look at two different people's net worths (assuming they are relatively the same age), and say that the person with the larger net worth is necessarily better at making money than the person with the smaller net worth?
 

Kak

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Do you believe that we can simply look at two different people's net worths (assuming they are relatively the same age), and say that the person with the larger net worth is necessarily better at making money than the person with the smaller net worth?

I'm not about to have another sociopathic "write off" circle jerk with you @JScott where you stomp around telling everyone ever why they are wrong. You would probably be arguing against luck and in favor of decisions and action if I had taken the side of luck. No one, who knows who you, ever takes your bait anymore. Why? They know you show up here to fight. You will argue and argue until everyone just gives up.

Just like I don't believe you were foreign to the most common use of the prase "write off," I honestly don't believe that you actually think business is mostly luck. So why are you here defending such a position?

There is a reason we clash. @JScott, I view the world very differently than you. I happen to view business and industry in a very favorable light. I believe business, entrepreneurs, and profit motive are a force for good. I believe this path is chosen and I have a strong appreciation for those that endeavor and make the necessary sacrifices to build...

On the other hand... You simply don't.

At the core of it, you are probably a socialist in an identity crisis. You have done well for yourself, but somehow detest business and economic freedom. You use this forum to unpack the mental gymnastics required to be both an entrepreneur and also harbor exceedingly anti-business views. I'm sure that is a frustrating endeavor for you.

I have seriously tried, more than you would believe, to find common ground with you, and appreciate you for who you are... but, at this point, I am very sure that effort has been a one way road. I have never seen you show respect or appreciation for anyone on this forum.

So no, I'm not going to take your bait. I don't argue with people that are "always right." @BizyDad and I are a good example of people who irritate the shit out of each other, but still find great common ground and respect one another. We hung out like old friends in Phoenix last year, because we are.

The thread link I posted is filled with statistical evidence that the belief system you are promoting, which is an external locus of control, is toxic.

The funny thing, the vast majority of us are here to learn, grow and swap experience. You evidently are here to assert yourself and thump your chest, perhaps because no one in real life gives you credit for your mental superiority. Have you opened your mind to learning anything from us plebes or are you just here to piss in the pool, and convince new and impressionable entrepreneurs that it is all luck?
 

JScott

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I'm not about to have another sociopathic "write off" circle jerk with you @JScott where you stomp around telling everyone ever why they are wrong. You would probably be arguing against luck and in favor of decisions and action if I had taken the side of luck. No one, who knows who you, ever takes your bait anymore. Why? They know you show up here to fight. You will argue and argue until everyone just gives up.

Just like I don't believe you were foreign to the most common use of the prase "write off," I honestly don't believe that you actually think business is mostly luck. So why are you here defending such a position?

There is a reason we clash. @JScott, I view the world very differently than you. I happen to view business and industry in a very favorable light. I believe business, entrepreneurs, and profit motive are a force for good. I believe this path is chosen and I have a strong appreciation for those that endeavor and make the necessary sacrifices to build...

On the other hand... You simply don't.

At the core of it, you are probably a socialist in an identity crisis. You have done well for yourself, but somehow detest business and economic freedom. You use this forum to unpack the mental gymnastics required to be both an entrepreneur and also harbor exceedingly anti-business views. I'm sure that is a frustrating endeavor for you.

I have seriously tried, more than you would believe, to find common ground with you, and appreciate you for who you are... but, at this point, I am very sure that effort has been a one way road. I have never seen you show respect or appreciation for anyone on this forum.

So no, I'm not going to take your bait. I don't argue with people that are "always right." @BizyDad and I are a good example of people who irritate the shit out of each other, but still find great common ground and respect one another. We hung out like old friends in Phoenix last year, because we are.

The thread link I posted is filled with statistical evidence that the belief system you are promoting, which is an external locus of control, is toxic.

The funny thing, the vast majority of us are here to learn, grow and swap experience. You evidently are here to assert yourself and thump your chest, perhaps because no one in real life gives you credit for your mental superiority. Have you opened your mind to learning anything from us plebes or are you just here to piss in the pool, and convince new and impressionable entrepreneurs that it is all luck?

Wow. I honestly didn't mean to trigger you. I was just trying to make what I believed was a reasonable point.

I'm sincerely sorry for whatever it was that I did to you in the past. It was not my intent.

That said, it's worth noting that over the years, I've noticed that any time you get into a major disagreement with someone (for any reason), your go-to insult is calling them a "socialist."

I do find it amusing that you'd go in that direction with me. Given that I spent most of my career in M&A for Microsoft and that I'm involved in several libertarian organizations, I'm probably one of the least socialist people on the planet.
But, I guess you prefer to put your feelings over the facts...

Btw, @Kak - just remember that if you really don't believe luck is a factor in financial success, then I guess you have to admit that if I have more money than you, it clearly means I'm just better at financial decision making than you... :rofl:
 
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HadiB15

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Comme le titre l'indique, je pense que la chance joue un rôle beaucoup trop important dans la réussite financière. Je soutiens que les gens tout en haut sont presque toujours là à cause de conditions qu'ils ne pouvaient pas influencer:

1. être né dans un pays du premier monde
2. avoir un corps sain
3. avoir un esprit sain
4. accès à une bonne infrastructure
5. accès à une bonne éducation
6. égalité des chances
7. des personnes qui vous soutiennent avec de l'argent et de l'expérience

Je sais qu'un travail acharné est nécessaire, mais retirez l'un de ces facteurs de l'équation et il est très probable que vous n'obtiendrez pas de succès financier dans votre vie.
Je crois aussi que les 3 premières raisons sont le pur hasard, 4 + 5 + 6 sont la responsabilité des gouvernements et 7 sont la responsabilité de vos parents.

Maintenant, j'ai une idée pour une organisation à but non lucratif qui pourrait résoudre le numéro 7. Cette organisation utilise une plate-forme en ligne, où les gens utilisent leur situation de vie et leur objectif afin de trouver quelqu'un qui les soutient avec leur expérience et peut-être leur argent. Ainsi, les gens qui sont très motivés et prêts à travailler dur mais qui n’ont pas de parents avec une mine d’or pourraient trouver une sorte de mentor qui connaît leur situation de vie et ils peuvent travailler ensemble jusqu’à ce que les les objectifs sont atteints.

Je ne sais pas si l'argent devrait être impliqué, car cela attirerait beaucoup d'escrocs, mais c'est peut-être possible avec un système de jalons, tout comme Upwork, où vous obtenez de l'argent après avoir atteint le jalon .

Alors, qu'est-ce que tu penses? Bonne idée, mauvaise idée? Ai-je oublié quelque chose?
Je n'interviens généralement pas mais ce poste en dit tellement longtemps que j'ai l'impression qu'il s'adresse à moi.
Tous les points que vous avez cité sont vrais, le facteur chance intervient toujours à un moment où à un autre dans nos succès.
Personnellement je suis née et j'ai grandi dans l'un des pays le plus pauvre au monde, dirigé par un groupe de corrompu depuis une décennie. Je n'ai pas grandi avec mes parents, je suis passé de famille en famille, de maison en maison. La seule chance que j'ai eu c'est que dans mon pays d'origine les études évaluées pas payantes et les familles avec j'ai vécu m'ont laissé l'opportunité d'aller à l'école. Quelque part ils avaient pas le choix, car j'étais une enfant intelligente, limite surdouée. Malgré l'instabilité, les médiocres conditions de vie, je suis allée jusqu'au bout et obtenu un diplôme en Ingénierie Télécommunications. Le seul boulot que j'ai pu trouver dans ce pays c'est être conseiller clients dans un centre d'appel. Certes le salaire était minables, mais je pouvais au moins m'acheter de quoi manger. L'expérience humaine que j'ai acquise avec ce travail me sert aujourd'hui dans ma vie professionnelle. Avec ce maigre revenu, je me suis battu pour payer mon visa et immigré en France en 2013, bien sûr grâce à mes amis qui m'ont aidé financierement et administrativement. D'ailleurs je suis arrivée en France avec seulement 200 € en poche, et une dette de 2000 € que je devais rembourser après avoir travaillé. Au début je pensais pouvoir tout réussir car j'étais en fin dans un pays développé, un pays de droit et de liberté, mais mon identité ma suivi, être originaire d'un pays du tiers monde est un grand handicap. Cela dit je n'ai pas baissé les bras, je me suis battu pour sortir la tête de l'eau. Entre ma maladie qui ma conduite à une intervention chirurgicale, et mes études j'en ai bavé. J'ai repasser un autre diplôme en Gestion Comptabilité et Finance, pour pouvoir intégrer le marché du travail. L'inconvénient c'est que j'étais étudiante étrangère, j'avais donc pas le droit ni la possibilité d'être embauché par une entreprise avec mon titre de séjour, alors j'ai fait une demande de reconversion du séjour dans le cadre médical, ça à marcher. J'ai trouvé un emploi en tant que commercial. Mais mes ambitions étaient au-dessus du salaire que je gagnais, j'avais un salaire de 1300 € nette, c'était impossible de vivre avec ça dans la plus belle région de France, qui est la côte d'azur (Nice). J'ai donc pris le risque de moi lancer à mon propre compte dans le domaine de l ' immobilier en tant que conseillère indépendante, autoentrepreneur. J'ai réussi mon défi avec le réseau SAFTI, la première année j'étais la seule agent co à concrétisé des ventes, au bout de 7 mois avec un CA d'environ 23 000 €. La deuxième année j'ai fait plus de 54000 € de CA agence, en partant de rien, de zéro, juste avec une détermination et une volonté infaillible. Mais malgré tout ce combat, toute cette bataille, aujourd'hui, depuis février 2020 mon ascension vers le succès s'est écroulé, j'ai tout perdu, mon travail, ma liberté, mes espoirs, tout. Au moment où je pensais en fin sortir d'une vie médiocre, je me retrouve bloqué au milieu de nulle part, sans issue, sans visibilité. La raison! Elle est aussi incompréhensible que pathétique. La préfecture de Nice a refusé de renouveler mon titre de séjour, pour des raisons que je ne comprendrais jamais. Mon sort dépend de la justice pour laquelle j'ai engagé un avocat et payeur des milliers d'euros. Un an sans revenus, sans famille, sans aucunes aides, avec un loyer à payer ... je vous laisse pas imaginer dans quelle situation je vis aujourd'hui. Le pire c'est que je ne peux pas partir dans un autre pays sachant que j'ai perdu mes papiers en France. Je contribuais à l'économie de ce pays, je suis bien intégré et je ne dépend pas des aides de l'état français mais malgré tout sur moi fait comprendre que je ne suis pas chez moi. Si ça peut vous rassurer, je ne baisse pas les bras quoi qui arrive et quelque soit la situation. Si ça peut vous rassurer, je ne baisse pas les bras quoi qui arrive et quelque soit la situation. Il y'a quelque temps j'ai trouvé une idée de création d'un site de transfert d'argent vers mon pays Je contribuais à l'économie de ce pays d'origine. transfert d'argent vers mon pays d'origine.
Dans cette histoire je vous ai épargner tous les détails qui vontudraient un livre de 600 pages. Je vous la partage car ce poste est en rapport avec mon histoire. C'est 32 ans de bataille, pour une jeune femme qui ne veut que vivre dans un monde meilleur.
MJ si tu lis ce poste ça serait un cadeau pour moi. J'ai acheté et lu tes deux livres, y compris le résumé sur Kindle.
Merci à la personne qui a évoqué ce sujet
Merci

Hadi
 

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Kevin88660

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Wow. I honestly didn't mean to trigger you. I was just trying to make what I believed was a reasonable point.

I'm sincerely sorry for whatever it was that I did to you in the past. It was not my intent.

That said, it's worth noting that over the years, I've noticed that any time you get into a major disagreement with someone (for any reason), your go-to insult is calling them a "socialist."

I do find it amusing that you'd go in that direction with me. Given that I spent most of my career in M&A for Microsoft and that I'm involved in several libertarian organizations, I'm probably one of the least socialist people on the planet.
But, I guess you prefer to put your feelings over the facts...

Btw, @Kak - just remember that if you really don't believe luck is a factor in financial success, then I guess you have to admit that if I have more money than you, it clearly means I'm just better at financial decision making than you... :rofl:
It amuses me how this is often leads to political slippery slope. I don't think anyone here is saying because luck is involved in financial success and therefore rich should be taxed more.

The devils are in the details.

I think the luck correlation is extremely strong in the traditionally high paying "slow lane" mindset. There are kids at the age of 15 who know they are going to be doctors or lawyers next time because their elder sisters and cousins did the same thing.

Wake up Early. Be disciplined. Study hard get good grades. Go to top school and get into Medical school/law school. Live frugally and invest in real estates. People who live predictable disciplined lives. By age of 50 they likely to be sitting on 2-3 million net worth.

If you do a survey on these people versus side walkers or people with no goals you are bound to come to the conclusion that handwork and discipline is almost a perfect correlation with financial success.

The same boys and girls who know they are going to be doctors and lawyers when they are age 15, are brought up with an extremely risk averse mindset. They are looking for predictability in the outcome from their investment of their efforts.

For for people who are in the business communities, drawing such comparison can be detrimental to mental health. Your business could be no where after 2-3 years despite best of your efforts. Then are you lazy or stupid?

Different games have different rules. Coming with the wrong expectations can lead to depression.

I think this unpredictability is what makes business far more challenging than other endeavors.

Sometimes we have people here asking whether they should quit entrepreneurship and make use of their IT skill to work for a big company. That perfectly explains the difficulty.
 
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