Learning Web programming vs. Apps?

[N.Entrepreneur]

Hello Fastlaners,

I want to learn how to build and program websites because I feel that this is one of the most essential tools and knowledge that one can obtain in order to achieve the Fastlane lifestyle. I am 22 have an undergrad and masters degree in accounting and I almost have a CPA certification. I have no knowledge or experience with web design, programming or app creation. I spent about 2-3 days learning from the internet and can now build a decent (in my opinion) WordPress page from scratch.

Should I place more emphasis on learning how to build Apps or a website? I feel that all the roads I attempt to take bring me to the same point which is staring at some sort of code and not knowing what to do with it. I don't want to be at the mercy of freelancers for all of my Fastlane ideas so I need to take action and obtain the knowledge and skills for myself.

Thanks!

 

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[dknise]

I totally agree that programming is one of the most useful tools to have in your skillset!

Unless you actually built a wordpress theme from scratch, you are not really building custom websites from scratch. WordPress is a proprietary solution to allow non-programmers to have content based blogs and websites. It's been extended to allow for ecommerce and shopping carts, as well as many other features with plugins, but that does not make you a web programmer any more than the 30 year old soccer mom posting blog entries about cookie recipes.

The question of "website or apps" comes down to which has the better opportunity for you. Even if you want to build apps, you may end up using PhoneGap and coding an html interface with javascript regardless. And really really regardless of which you choose, you'll be using a dynamic web language for content generation with a backend database.


As a professional programmer, I've learned countless languages for specific projects I've worked on. It always starts with whats the idea, and what do I need to do to get that project done? If that meant learning Windows Powershell for automated server deployments, I learned Windows Powershell for automated server deployments. When you have that solid idea, decide which route to go based on it, and not the other way around.

How are you intending going about learning to code? I'm a huge proponent of coding here on the forum and also a huge proponent of the vast availability of great books on the subject. It really takes some dedication and reading about a 500 page book every week or two to really become an excellent coder. Having done that, it was the best investment I could have ever made in myself!


Goodluck!

 

[Martincz]

Also planning on starting to learn coding. Do you have any recommendations of books? It would be very helpful.

Thanks

 

[dknise]

Also planning on starting to learn coding. Do you have any recommendations of books? It would be very helpful.

Thanks

Amazon's programming book section is a great place to find out what book to read:
Amazon.com: Programming - Computers & Technology: Books

There's always at least 3 to 4 books on a language or subject, and the reviews are extremely revealing as to which one should be read.


Programming is a hugeeee skillset, so depending on your project it will change where you should start. Do you have an idea what type of project you'd like to work on?

 

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[Martincz]

Amazon's programming book section is a great place to find out what book to read:
Amazon.com: Programming - Computers & Technology: Books

There's always at least 3 to 4 books on a language or subject, and the reviews are extremely revealing as to which one should be read.


Programming is a hugeeee skillset, so depending on your project it will change where you should start. Do you have an idea what type of project you'd like to work on?

I would like to build a website from scratch so I wouldn't have to be dependent on web providers. I was thinking that learning HTML and CSS would be a good start. There are many books on Amazon on HTML and CSS that´s for sure. I just don't have a good experience with their reviews. Prefer buying books based on word of mouth.

 

[dknise]

I would like to build a website from scratch so I wouldn't have to be dependent on web providers. I was thinking that learning HTML and CSS would be a good start. There are many books on Amazon on HTML and CSS that´s for sure. I just don't have a good experience with their reviews. Prefer buying books based on word of mouth.

Gotcha.

HTML and CSS is a great place to start, because that's where you'll get to create visual objects that the end user will see. That's the fun part haha. For most websites, probably 99% of websites today, things get a bit more complicated. Often times stuff needs to move on a webpage or have content dynamically created based off of current data. When actions occur on the client side (in the users web browser), client side scripting with Javascript performs the actions. When actions occur on the web server to generate dynamic content, it's called server side scripting which is what PHP, ASP.NET, and stuff are. And finally, the data which is usually stored in some kind of database for easy retrieval.

So the stack for web sites looks a little like this:

The front end user experience:
HTML - for structure
CSS - for styling
Javascript - for interactivity
--usually aided by jQuery although not entirely necessary
--AJAX for asynchronous loading, which is becoming the standard for content generation and loading

Web service end
(A scripting language to dynamically generate HTML content)
PHP, ASP, ASP.NET, Ruby, Ruby on Rails, etc.

Backend database for storage
MySql, SqlServer, Oracle, MongoDB
--and if it's SQL based, you'll need to learn Standard Query Language along with the server's flavor and framework!

and of course, the web server, what you host it on.
Linux/Apache
Windows/IIS


I personally use the pretty common stack called LAMP which is Linux/Apache/Mysql/PHP.

Not sure if that's scaring you away or giving you the knowledge of what you need to learn! Either way, hope it helps.

 

[Aututto]

I'd say start to learn programming in a simple language like C++ or html. Once you learn to code it's not terribly difficult to learn another language. If you're on a debate; start with web programming. It's much easier and there are many tutorials and places you can learn online as opposed to app programming. Once you feel comfortable, I say grab an app programming book and go nuts with it!

 

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[GoodGuyGG]

I'd say start to learn programming in a simple language like C++ or html. Once you learn to code it's not terribly difficult to learn another language. If you're on a debate; start with web programming. It's much easier and there are many tutorials and places you can learn online as opposed to app programming. Once you feel comfortable, I say grab an app programming book and go nuts with it!

I dont agree, there are major differences in a programming language like c++ and html. The principle that you say would apply for him if he is not sure about learning c++ or java for example. But comparing the web languages like html and css with a very complicated language like c++ is a different story.

Well, I would recommend the stuff that dknise said. Start with HTML, css and Javascript and then actually you are ready to build apps with PhoneGap . But to be honest im still learning javascript because its much more complex than the 2 languages before. More like a "real" programming language. This also means that I dont know how good PhoneGap really is for appbuilding.

 

[Aututto]

I dont agree, there are major differences in a programming language like c++ and html. The principle that you say would apply for him if he is not sure about learning c++ or java for example. But comparing the web languages like html and css with a very complicated language like c++ is a different story.

Well, I would recommend the stuff that dknise said. Start with HTML, css and Javascript and then actually you are ready to build apps with PhoneGap . But to be honest im still learning javascript because its much more complex than the 2 languages before. More like a "real" programming language. This also means that I dont know how good PhoneGap really is for appbuilding.

Um I guess so. When I first tried to learn programming I tried some of the "in time" languages. I then took a C programming course and it's made learning new programs a breeze. Yes it's more difficult but that's the point. It's pretty bare bones programming. I guess every one learns different. But I can't imagine how hard it would be to learn programming if you can't relate concepts across each! But like I said everyone learns much different so OP you take the dominant advice here and go with that see how it's working and try tailoring it for your learning needs! No one learns the same!

 

[dknise]

I dont agree, there are major differences in a programming language like c++ and html. The principle that you say would apply for him if he is not sure about learning c++ or java for example. But comparing the web languages like html and css with a very complicated language like c++ is a different story.

Well, I would recommend the stuff that dknise said. Start with HTML, css and Javascript and then actually you are ready to build apps with PhoneGap . But to be honest im still learning javascript because its much more complex than the 2 languages before. More like a "real" programming language. This also means that I dont know how good PhoneGap really is for appbuilding.

As long as your PhoneGap app isn't web-data driven (which most valuable apps are)... you're set with HTML, css, and javascript.

 

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[Milkanic]

I suggest learning Python.

1.) Much less verbose than C++ or Java
2.) Clean, easy to read syntax.
3.) Great web frameworks (flask and django).
4.) Object model is easy to understand and will carry forward into other languages (C or Java for app development).
5.) Anyone who tries it never goes back to anything else. See the poll here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3746692
6.) Great for scripting random tasks (parsing xml files, writing a quick web app, etc).

Check this book out.
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/

 

[Aututto]

I suggest learning Python.

1.) Much less verbose than C++ or Java
2.) Clean, easy to read syntax.
3.) Great web frameworks (flask and django).
4.) Object model is easy to understand and will carry forward into other languages (C or Java for app development).
5.) Anyone who tries it never goes back to anything else. See the poll here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3746692
6.) Great for scripting random tasks (parsing xml files, writing a quick web app, etc).

Check this book out.
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/

I agree here. Have not had personal experience with this but have only heard praise and more praise from it!

 

[SeanyHang]

I began learning HTML and CSS through codecademy a week ago for the same reason you are (It seems like a pretty damn good thing to know!). Being much more of the creative and athletic type I was afraid it was going to be ridiculously boring for me.. BUT that site actually made it pretty damn enjoyable! It's kinda cool being able to go to "View" in my chrome browser then clicking "Developer" and being able to actually somewhat understand the source code that I'm looking at.

BTW minor hijack of the thread - I want to learn a language that I'll be able to program apps for Google Glass when it comes out.. Do any of you guys who seem to be ninjas at coding have any idea what language that will be? Java?

 

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[codo3500]

I'm a programmer that is well-versed in many languages, and I believe that once you're a 'true' programmer, you understand the underlying logic behind the processes; and then it's just a matter of learning the syntax of the given language.

In order to learn something like PHP however, you're best to start with HTML/CSS and then JavaScript. Wordpress will teach you tidbits of all of these - but it certainly won't make you a true programmer. While Wordpress can be taken to it's limits via PHP, it's ultimately a limited platform and framework you're working within.

I believe THE best method of coding is trial and error. Not having a time-limit, and having a large project, is the best way to learn. If you can't do something, Google it. If you're solving the problem using something like jQuery or PHP, then there are amazing libraries of information available for you, which are very searchable. As you gradually work your way through each problem, you will be learning how to code through necessity, and I believe this is a very effective method.

Aside from this, make sure your first language is a well-documented and notoriously reliable one. I remember coding things in Actionscript in Flash years ago, and spending countless hours to find out it was 'bugs' in the way it all works, and I hadn't actually made any coding errors. This is not a good allocation of your time.

 

[goodfella]

what language would you say is the best for a beginner to learn?

 

[codo3500]

what language would you say is the best for a beginner to learn?

HTML and CSS aren't really 'languages', but are an excellent starting point for anyone. From there, Javascript, and I would recommend using a JavaScript library called 'jQuery', as it really simplifies JavaScript, and makes it a lot easier to use. It's also a lot closer to programming in one of the more serious languages, such as PHP.

 

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[healthstatus]

what language would you say is the best for a beginner to learn?

Marketing

 

[elclandestino]

learn programming and its principles. python makes a great language to pick up the concepts

 

[Enki]

Marketing

lol. I don't know why but that made me spit coffee.

what language would you say is the best for a beginner to learn?

Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science by John M. Zelle

I have this book on the shelve. It is not really about python, but computer programming in general. It just happens to use python for its examples. I'd suggest you read something like this to get a broad overview of the concept of programing. then you can compare the pitfalls of each programing language and learn the programing language that will suite your needs.

 

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[GENT3861]

Is Codeacademy a good jumping off point? I have been there for a few days and I really don't want to waste any of my time. Also thanks for the books list. I look forward to reading some of them.

 

[GoodGuyGG]

Yes I think its definetly worth it. It dont cost money anyway. What is even better is getting a book and do a mixture of both codecademy (much of coding and thinking) and then reading a book (more for the long explanations).

 

[Torlock]

I believe the two go hand in hand. Around two years ago I began learning HTML, now, I know HTML, CSS, PHP, parts of Javascript, Jquery, MySQL and more. Once you learn on scripting language fluently others seem to come much easier.

Remember Google is your friend. You do not need to know the ins and outs of every code in a flash, you learn as you need. Come up with an idea and then tailor your skills to suit that idea.

As for Phone Apps, I have no experience in these whatsoever but what I do know is that the languages used are the same as web development; so why not do both?

Also, you mention Wordpress. Wordpress is amazing but you want to learn not just how to create a blog or website, instead how does that site work/function and the build upon it. Always better yourself and your business.

 

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[davedev]

I believe the two go hand in hand. Around two years ago I began learning HTML, now, I know HTML, CSS, PHP, parts of Javascript, Jquery, MySQL and more. Once you learn on scripting language fluently others seem to come much easier.

Nice, I'm in a similar place as yourself. Drop me a PM if you'd like to study together.

Come up with an idea and then tailor your skills to suit that idea.

I agree. Deciding on learning Web Programming vs App Dev is primarily project based. What do you wish to build? If it's a store website, break down the parts that make up a store site.

shopping cart
searching and displaying search results
storing inventory (in stock / out of stock)
creating a template (reusing the header / footer / sidebar for multiple pages)
creating an account for a user that buys from a website
registering / logging out users
product review / rating system
etc

Themes built on Wordpress will no doubt meet these needs, but as Torlock recommends, try to understand how to implement a few of these features first on your own. But, if you're really daunted by the task, install a Wordpress theme such as Wootique, and spend a couple of hours tearing it apart to get an up close and personal look as to how store websites work.

It really depends on what your goals are.

 

[SherylMathews]

While there are lots of books available to learn coding, I would actually recommend checking out an Online Training course. You might try one of the Jump Start training courses from MVA.The site is really helpful for learning latest technologies and all of their courses are free. I took a HTML5 Jumpstart training module and found it really helpful. Also, all of the courses are expert led which make your learning full of practical industry examples.

https://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/topics/html5_topic_page_en

 

[DeletedUser2]

and just because its been said before


I thought I might point to this thread

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/internet-mobile-apps-software/41319-learning-program-stupid.html

Z

 

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[Don Dano]

What do you guys think of training courses form Lynda.com?

 

[dknise]

What do you guys think of training courses form Lynda.com?

Just checked it out, cool site. I'm still not onboard with the rest of the world in terms of "videos are better." Videos take 4 times as long to explain half the information, and are impossible to use for reference. For people starting out though, it's probably very helpful to watch it step by step.

 

[Det]

BTW minor hijack of the thread - I want to learn a language that I'll be able to program apps for Google Glass when it comes out.. Do any of you guys who seem to be ninjas at coding have any idea what language that will be? Java?

Chances are Google Glass apps will be developed in Java. Even if it's not, learning Java wouldn't turn into a bad investment of time as not only will you know how to develop Android apps but you'll be able to learn other languages which Google Glass apps may be developed in much faster. The same way a bilingual individual would find it easier to learn another spoken language compared to a monolingual individual, someone who already knows a programming language will find it easier to learn a further programming language.

 

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[healthstatus]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...va-programming-language-computer-and-internet

Note the year, Java has been the next big thing for a while, but it never is...