Is Dubai the "Galt's Gulch" in reality?

[Rain]

Dubai, where capitalism is basically religion, seems to most accurately represent Galt's Gulch (Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand) in today's modern society. The great nation of America is becoming more socialist by the day.

For those who haven't read Atlas Shrugged, Galt's Gulch can be explained here: Galt's Gulch - Conservapedia (trust me, that's a very short read in comparison to the 1000+ pages in the actual book). Also, the link contains spoilers, so if you ever intend to read the book, this is a fair warning.

Just thought this was an interesting comparison.

 

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[Kak]

I read a WSJ article not too long ago that called a whole number of countries that we wouldnt expect more capitalist than the US.

China specifically HK
The UK
Canada
Australia
Dubai

Pretty sad. Countries should compete for our business, we are doing a pretty shitty job. Just look at the facebook guy. I domt blame him one bit.

 

[pro]

yeah, but if you have a business legal issue, what country would you rather be in?

Capitalism without good institutions/laws/regulations isn't ideal.

When you need legal enforcement in Dubai, gl

 

[Kak]

A country that throws out BS frivelous lawsuits.

Regulated and overtaxed capitalism is socialism. Let the capitalist markets decide what is right. If you actually let them, people vote with their wallets.

 

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[Mike39]

If I was a couple of years older (say 20), I would consider moving to Dubai, the town is oozing with opportunity, specifically, real estate but with SO much wealth accumulated in such a small area, starting any business that serves a legitimate need/want should be a ton easier than in the states. Their oil is about to run out in 10 years though so its not a long term investment, more get in, make your dough and get out. I guess the only downside is that driving a Lambo around is about as common as driving a Camry around over on this side of the pond. The real money is keeping an eye out for the next Dubai, get there first and make billions.

Watched this the other day, very interesting: Piers Morgan: The Luxury Life of Dubai & A Luxury Tour Of Dubai - YouTube

 

[Rain]

@Kak: Agreed--the direction the US has taken is very sad. That's what happens when poor, ignorant people outbreed ambitious, educated (not necessarily college-educated) people in a democracy. Majority wins... and wealth is redistributed via legal force.

@pro: I'm not an expert on Dubai. If I remember correctly from what I have learned, however, they do have a government in place. For example, defaulting on your debt there is illegal.

@Mike: I actually watched that YouTube vid a few days ago myself. Good stuff. Also, I think it's safe to say that most opportunities are temporary.

 

[Kak]

Yes sir, the only people that should be able to vote are those of us that pay taxes.

This country is really into legalized theft lately.

 

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[gfrye13]

I live in Dubai and I love it. Although starting a business will be great starting a business is not as easy as you would think They regulate alot of what goes on in this country. Americans can start a business but unless you are in the free zone you have to have a UAE national partner with you. You then have to give them 51% of your business but they will do no work. You are paying them for the right to use their name as a partner. Also the country is truly a British colony. The British have a strong influence here so they are the ones who are getting the better deals. I dont know how long I will be here but I am really working at getting my piece of this pie.

 

[JayKim]

Watched this the other day, very interesting: Piers Morgan: The Luxury Life of Dubai & A Luxury Tour Of Dubai - YouTube

Didnt know much about the country amazing.

 

[MartinV]

Dubai, where capitalism is basically religion, seems to most accurately represent Galt's Gulch (Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand) in today's modern society.

What?? So a country that's built on oil money and modern-day slave labor with locals who live off of the government is being compared to a haven for productive people who want to succeed off of their own hard work and industriousness? Sounds like complete and utter opposites to me...

Give this a read and see if you still feel the same: The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent

 

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[Rain]

What?? So a country that's built on oil money and modern-day slave labor with locals who live off of the government is being compared to a haven for productive people who want to succeed off of their own hard work and industriousness? Sounds like complete and utter opposites to me...

Give this a read and see if you still feel the same: The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent

Sobering article. Thanks for sharing.

I still hold the belief that Dubai is probably a great place for those at the top, or at least in the upper bracket. But apparently, if someone in the lower bracket is looking for improve his or her life, Dubai may actually be worse than the US in some ways.

 

[MartinV]

I still hold the belief that Dubai is probably a great place for those at the top, or at least in the upper bracket.

No disagreement there. It seems like it could be a fantastic place assuming one can afford to enjoy it (at least until something goes wrong).

It was more the characterization of Galt's Gulch that I was complaining about, since it's the mythical place where everyone exists based solely on their own merits, with no government leeching or handouts to worry about.

 

[Pixpax]

If you think a repressive city state that is rich from unearned wealth thanks to the geographical fluke of fossil fuels then I recommend you go and live there!

The US is incredibly innovative and entrepreneurial...

 

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[leono]

What?? So a country that's built on oil money and modern-day slave labor with locals who live off of the government is being compared to a haven for productive people who want to succeed off of their own hard work and industriousness? Sounds like complete and utter opposites to me...

Give this a read and see if you still feel the same: The dark side of Dubai - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent

The article was completely negative. The reporter didn't mention one positive thing in that article. I'm pretty sure that reporter would write just about the same thing for every country on this planet.

"Before I came here, I didn't know anything about Dubai law. I assumed if all these big companies come here, it must be pretty like Canada's or any other liberal democracy's," she says. Nobody told her there is no concept of bankruptcy.

No due dilligence.

Daniel was sentenced to six months' imprisonment at a trial he couldn't understand. It was in Arabic, and there was no translation.

Doesn't speak the language ... who's fault is that? I'm sure it's their fault, right?

"Nothing. This isn't a city, it's a con-job. They lure you in telling you it's one thing – a modern kind of place – but beneath the surface it's a medieval dictatorship."

So, it's their fault you didn't take the time to learn about the country and consider potential problems you may have especially since you can't speak the language... Right, okay, thanks!

 

[MartinV]

The article was completely negative.

Well, the article is called The dark side of Dubai.

And sure, people that move to a new place should certainly do their research, and if their bad decisions cause bad consequences, then the responsibility is on them.

Of course, it's also useful to have articles like this point out those potential consequences to help prevent others from making similarly bad decisions.

Also, as someone who's been recruited to new countries by employers a couple of times, they obviously minimize (or entirely ignore) any potential difficulties as much as possible, and the tendency is to expect that the nice people interviewing you aren't lying through their teeth with every other sentence. Ideally, you would independently verify such things, but I think the vast majority of people are more trusting than that (true, though unfortunate).

 

[Ubermensch]

For American's, there is only one real option for obtaining Galt's Galch.

 

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[ArthurDayne]

I read a WSJ article not too long ago that called a whole number of countries that we wouldnt expect more capitalist than the US.

China specifically HK
The UK
Canada
Australia
Dubai

Pretty sad. Countries should compete for our business, we are doing a pretty shitty job. Just look at the facebook guy. I domt blame him one bit.

I've lived in China and HK for several years. Let me assure you that it is indeed the forefront of capitalism, for better and for worse. Dubai is just a playground for millionaires and a place to stick a straw in the ground - not a place of real commercial value. Hence a class system. Millionaire or slave. Zero mobility between the two.

As for Australia, I consider it a modern execution of the American dream. If you want, right now, you can drop whatever you're doing right now to make $300,000/yr working in the mines in Western Australia. Moguls have been made, and a middle class has been built. And when somebody shot up a school, the *first* time, that was the end of public access to guns. There's a reason it's a global model for developed country living, and there's a reason it always scores #1 for quality of life.

 

[decaobr]

That list never fail http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

 

[CashFlowDepot]

Not unless you have very deep pockets.

Last month I had a couple from Abu Dhabi on my Panama Relocation Tours. They said a small apartment is $75,000 a year US and you pay a year in advance. You can get something outside of town for $40,000 per year US.

Something like 80% of the country are expats - mostly working in the service sector.

It is very hard to start a business there unless you have a local connection. Even then you need very deep pockets to survive a start up.

 

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