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HOT TOPIC How to legally pay no taxes... possible?

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André Casal

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I'm at a point in my business where I need to start worrying about taxes.

From what I've learned about IRS and IRC, the best way to legally pay no taxes is to either report zero net profit by balancing your expenses or open business in a country where there are no taxes.

Setting up business in a country where there are no taxes makes taxation simpler, but complicates your legal obligations. For example, the Principality of Monaco charges no personal income or business taxes for most business types, but to be considered a resident, you have to live there for 6 months and 1 day out of the year which is cumbersome.

On the other hand, reporting zero net profit by balancing expenses is more generally applicable, but we're faced with the challenge of where to put our money, when there are no more inescapable business expenses.

I was hoping you guys could provide information about countries where there are no taxes and their legal obligations (if any) and what flexible expenses could a business incur that would put the money somewhere we could 1.) easily access and 2.) wouldn't be as harshly taxed (or not at all).
 

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Tommo

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I believe to be in Monaco you need to first prove a certain level of wealth to get the status and benefits. Keep it in perspective, are you talking hundreds of thousands otherwise forget it. All the best for the New Year.
 

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If you are in the UK and want to pay minimal tax you just rename your company Google or Facebook. ;)

Seriously though you should be seeking professional advice on reducing your tax liabilities not relying on a public forum even though many here will have had to go down a similar path.

Also there is the moral issue. It is one thing to want to reduce your tax burden but quite another to want to pay no tax at all. That just makes you a parasite expecting others to pay into the collective while you just reap the benefits.
 

Arun Siva

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If you are in USA i agree with you in your view to not pay taxes (us taxpayers receive nothing in return absolutely jack$hit) but if you are in other more respectable countries that effectively use tax money I beg to differ. And yes, this is a conversation you need to have with a tax professional (preferably 20 years of experience perhaps italian or jewish (from my experience they know the intricacies in the USA of how to get "around" things) AND a trusting TAX attorney.

P.S I hope the masses do not get butthurt about the races mentioned in this example. This is just from my experience, just one example out of the sea.
 

CareCPA

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I think you'll find the answer will vary widely based on your personal circumstances. This is why you won't find a one-size-fits-all solution with a Google search, and those gurus who are selling a single solution for zero taxes are setting you up. Speak with a professional (not me, I don't do international structuring).
 

CareCPA

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(preferably 20 years of experience perhaps italian or jewish (from my experience they know the intricacies in the USA of how to get "around" things)
This made me literally laugh out loud.
People say stereotypes exist for a reason, and I would not argue with them in this case.

HOWEVER, I've seen tax returns from some "old Italian guys" (and one old Jewish lady this year. Seriously, she was like 90) - let's just say you need to make sure they include audit protection in your contract. Ultimately, you are responsible for the information on your return, even if someone else prepares it.
 

ChrisV

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So you know all those roads, and schools, and 911 service you enjoy so much? They all come from taxes. I suggest just paying taxes from a moral perspective. Now if you want to lower your taxes, I think that’s a different story.
 

Kak

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The only real way to pay no tax is to make no money.
 

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Vigilante

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I don't have a problem paying taxes. I want to minimize taxes I pay, but believe I have benefited greatly from entrepreneurship in the greatest economic opportunistic system in the world. I have paid a lot of taxes. I literally just caught some things up and paid what would be the equivalent of more than a great salary... but that was for a few years of catch-up. I believe in what Kyosaki said when he was facing a large tax bill... he just had to go make more. I see no ceiling in what I can earn.

People ask me all the time about Amazon fees. Amazon fees? Who cares? It is only a percentage of what I MAKE on Amazon. Same is true to a degree with taxes. I could be so blessed to have such a large tax bill. Means I am doing something right. So... taxes? You're worried about taxes? Go make more money. Go pay an accountant to handle your tax strategy.

There are a few on the forum whose whole existence is to avoid taxes. Personally, I'd rather live on the Gulf Coast of Florida and pay some taxes than live in some third world shithole but be "tax free." To each his own.
 

G-Man

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To me, taxation has the moral profile of a back alley mugging, but as I've gotten older I've come to understand 3 things:
  • Taxes have been around since one caveman realized he was a little bigger and stronger than the others. That's not going to change.
  • I wouldn't last long in prison
  • A large tax bill means I made a lot of money
Not exactly deep philosophy, but I'm on team @Vigilante on this one. Same for living where I want to live, not based on tax rate.
 

Kak

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I don't have a problem paying taxes. I want to minimize taxes I pay, but believe I have benefited greatly from entrepreneurship in the greatest economic opportunistic system in the world. I have paid a lot of taxes. I literally just caught some things up and paid what would be the equivalent of more than a great salary... but that was for a few years of catch-up. I believe in what Kyosaki said when he was facing a large tax bill... he just had to go make more. I see no ceiling in what I can earn.

People ask me all the time about Amazon fees. Amazon fees? Who cares? It is only a percentage of what I MAKE on Amazon. Same is true to a degree with taxes. I could be so blessed to have such a large tax bill. Means I am doing something right. So... taxes? You're worried about taxes? Go make more money. Go pay an accountant to handle your tax strategy.

There are a few on the forum whose whole existence is to avoid taxes. Personally, I'd rather live on the Gulf Coast of Florida and pay some taxes than live in some third world sh*thole but be "tax free." To each his own.
I agree... As long as you are in a low tax state, the benefits of being able to conduct business from the USA currently outweigh the costs of doing business here, taxes.

Hire a good accountant and do everything you can to minimize your tax burden legally... Why? Because why look over your shoulder?

Now, even though I have this view, of just take care of it... I am about the most anti-taxation voter on the face of the earth. I view the government with similar disdain that I would an organized crime ring.
 

jpanarra

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I agree... As long as you are in a low tax state, the benefits of being able to conduct business from the USA currently outweigh the costs of doing business here, taxes.

Hire a good accountant and do everything you can to minimize your tax burden legally... Why? Because why look over your shoulder?

Now, even though I have this view, of just take care of it... I am about the most anti-taxation voter on the face of the earth. I view the government with similar disdain that I would an organized crime ring.
An organized crime ring might have slightly more ethical morals than the people in office today...

That being said I always pay my dues to uncle sam. All of my life i've done my own taxes but 2019 will be different, I'll have to start hiring an accountant to take care of it because I'm started to get confused with what can be written off and such with the different income streams I have.

I'm curious how much do you guys recommend I put down for budgeting an accountant for 2019. It seems to be a range of 1k to 2.5k which usually pays for itself in the tax writeoffs they can find. Does that sound right to you?
 

Nova

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Taxation is a necessary part of modern life. I agree that tax money can be (and often is) mis-spent which can lead you to look at reducing your tax payments, but looking at paying no tax whatsoever is frankly pretty disgusting.

Do you use public roads, hospitals, schools, fire and police departments? Who do you think pays for these services?
 

CareCPA

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I'm curious how much do you guys recommend I put down for budgeting an accountant for 2019. It seems to be a range of 1k to 2.5k which usually pays for itself in the tax writeoffs they can find. Does that sound right to you?
I'm highly biased, but you can get some good quality tax advice in that price range.
 

Arun Siva

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This made me literally laugh out loud.
People say stereotypes exist for a reason, and I would not argue with them in this case.

HOWEVER, I've seen tax returns from some "old Italian guys" (and one old Jewish lady this year. Seriously, she was like 90) - let's just say you need to make sure they include audit protection in your contract. Ultimately, you are responsible for the information on your return, even if someone else prepares it.
haha @CareCPA i had actually meant to TAG you on this post to Get your inputs.
 

Arun Siva

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An organized crime ring might have slightly more ethical morals than the people in office today...
Trust me they do. Believe it or not, these «criminals» have done way more for their immediate communities then any government has ever done.
 

ChrisV

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us taxpayers receive nothing in return absolutely jack$hit
I don’t know if that’s fair.

Okay so:
The ability to live in a safe country (military spending)
Money for when you’re old and can’t work (social security)
The treasury (the guys who print the actual money you use)
Dept of agriculture (making sure your food is okay)
Education (K-12)
Scientific Foundations (NASA, etc)
Health foundations (Center for Disease Control, etc)

508874136bb3f7ce2b000007-750-578-2.jpg

I don’t know I’d the US has the best taxation system, but it’s certainly not the worst. I mean, I lean toward libertarianism, but still to say we don’t get ‘jack shit’ for our taxes... yea I don’t think that’s accurate.


I mean if you want a low tax rate you can go move to Zambia or Botswana

world-map-global-tax-rate.jpg

But you’ll see that you get way less in return as well.
 

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Arun Siva

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Lately your beloved government continues to waste billions of dollars on irrelevant tomfoolery and unfortunately americans are paying for nothing in return. If you listen to CSPAN you will SEE where your Money is going and it aint going to schools, roads, public services.... maybe 20-30% tops. Rest is overinflated Charges and boondoggle projects that are due to pissing contests.
 

Arun Siva

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The ability to live in a safe country (military spending)
Money for when you’re old and can’t work (social security
The treasure (the gas who print the actual money you use)
Dept of agriculture (making sure your food is okay)
Education (K-12)
Scientific Foundations (NASA, etc)
Health foundations (Center for Disease Control, etc)
Sosial Security? Joke. Any millenial will not Get Squat from this joke of a program. We will SEE how this becomes by 2030 let alene 2050.

Department of agriculture is a joke. Please look up the list of foods that the EU has banned that are still legal and idiotically produced in USA. USDA and the FDA are both jokes.

Education, Ranks are not where you would like or think America should be ( across english, Maths and sciences.) An american high school diploma will not Even Get you a Seat in community college in Germany for example.

NASA....... another story.

PS Edit. I apologize for some mispellings I am typing this on my phone where the set language is Norsk not english.
 
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Arun Siva

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[also what i meant @ChrisV was that americans that are not Entrepreneurs pay a LOT for almost nothing in return. people that i know that are engineer and doctors Get taxed more and more living in NYC, FRISCO, DC etc. (If you factor in city + state taxes it is greater then countries in western europe) and they dont have free healthcare, child CARE, education etc etc. It is blasphemous....
And in Norway and germany the tax Is high but so much more is returned to the people. Great healthcare and free education in places were yes There is low population (Norway) but also moderate population (germany). The usa albeit heving 320 million HAS enough money circulating but a lot of it is held up due to corrupt practices and the corrupt government that continues to spend like no other causing hardship to many others.
 

Mike Partee

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Back on topic boys.

@André Casal what you're getting into is a rabbit hole that goes deep.

If you're serious about tax mitigation strategies, want to make sure you're doing it correctly (so you don't walk around with a target on your back), and have the cash to invest, I'd advise you speak to @GlobalWealth.

Cheers.
 

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I keep laughing at the "well what about roads." Hahaha. Ok, but seriously guys, there is nothing wrong with an individual wanting their payments to the government to be nothing, especially when they are starting from nothing. Being obligated to pay taxes by a monopoly on the use of force is actually shitty, just admit it. Even if it might be necessary in some form to ensure your country's continued existence (defense).

That said, step one is income. Keeping 100% of your money by some convoluted trick that takes all of your time... nets you nothing if you're not making anything. Make some income the normal way (I mean, by creating capital assets and renting or selling them), and (step 1.5) hire a CPA. The first time I used a CPA he charged me something like $400 for a business and personal tax return. He saved me $8,000 that year. Later you'll need to do research and maybe find other CPAs and tax lawyers to uncover legitimate strategies, but don't put the cart before the horse.

For out-of-the-country strategies, keep a few things in mind. 1. You'll probably never pay "no tax." Their government runs on something, and someone pays for it. Best case, maybe it's an indirect tax on higher order goods, and so you don't have to think about it. 2. Property rights. If you incorporate in the New Kingdom of Outer Space, it goes almost without saying that you'll have nobody looking after your rights. So either invest in lasers, or just pay the taxes and fees in the jurisdictions where you need your trademarks, copyrights, property ownership, etc acknowledged. Yes, it's a protection racket, sortof, but where's your army? 3. I'm being silly, but it's also true.
 
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Kak

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Own a hotel and live in the penthouse... Think of the write off's.

Vehicle, food, servants, recreation, travel, home.

This gets you about as close to only taxed on what you retain as possible.
 

Arun Siva

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Own a hotel and live in the penthouse... Think of the write off's.

Vehicle, food, servants, recreation, travel, home.

This gets you about as close to only taxed on what you retain as possible.
Superb
 
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Arun Siva

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feeding the parasites that never worked and never paid taxes.
Spot on. PARASITES. The ultimate synonym for the us politician. Well said sir. They do not create ANY VALUE yet they are above.

We create VALUE and yet we OWE them? Somewhere this Logic is Flawed.
 

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