How does a 22-yr-old scientist find business insights? MBA? Meet-ups?

[Bertram]

Here's the situation. A grad student is working on a 4-5 yr physics PhD.
Grad school is on 100% merit scholarships, so she'll exit with 30K in pocket, meaning 115 K in personal funds.
Life ahead will be research, inventions, owning/selling companies, and living.
In the grad school bubble it's hard to see the path, however. She probably should join a company right away, right?
Wrong?
Where can she gain the knowledge to choose?
It turns out that she can concurrently complete a minor in business or in anything else.
Is it a good idea to get an MBA?
Many of you say don't bother with that.

So what is better then?
Any specific business courses? Business law?
Joining the local entrepreneurial meet-ups and masterminds?
This is in Arizona by the way.
Does it really make a difference if a PhD scientist comes on board a company with courses in business or law?

Thank you very much for your completely honest answers.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Tossek]

As a physicist myself, I can offer you several paths:

1) The parallel path: Use your time while you do your PhD - build something up next to it. You have

2) The skip: Go directly to business consultancy after your PhD. You will increase your business value massively but have not life next to it.

3) Specialize further: Become a specialist in your PhD field and get paid by a company.

Honestly, I took the third path. It is ok but not great. I know some people that took the second path and they are big slow laners. I suggest you try 1 and then try 2 afterwards. You need experience. Yes, I think meetups are a good start to learn some right mindset.

What is the PhDs specialisation field? Experimental? Theory? Solidstate? Particle?

 

[Bertram]

As a physicist myself, I can offer you several paths:

1) The parallel path: Use your time while you do your PhD - build something up next to it. You have

2) The skip: Go directly to business consultancy after your PhD. You will increase your business value massively but have not life next to it.

3) Specialize further: Become a specialist in your PhD field and get paid by a company.

Honestly, I took the third path. It is ok but not great. I know some people that took the second path and they are big slow laners. I suggest you try 1 and then try 2 afterwards. You need experience. Yes, I think meetups are a good start to learn some right mindset.

What is the PhDs specialisation field? Experimental? Theory? Solidstate? Particle?

Thanks for this. The PhD is optical science.
Experimental and condensed matter physics: quantum optics, gravity waves, dark matter, all manner of optics.

 

[broswoodwork]

Thanks for this. The PhD is optical science.
Experimental and condensed matter physics: quantum optics, gravity waves, dark matter, all manner of optics.

ASML in Wilton, CT loves Arizona State Optical grads. I would imagine she's already been scouted by them several times already though.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Rabby]

Does she want to contact someone at an optical manufacturer? Maybe that's a good idea, even if it doesn't lead to anything. Put theory and practice together?

Should she choose this path or that one? Who knows? This question has been addressed many times, but I will remind you of a masterful answer:

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

- Robert Frost

 

[Tossek]

So, I would like to offer another possibility: She could do her PhD in another field. Many of my friends did it and me as well. They studied physics up to their master degree and then switched. Most of the switchers went to engineering but some to economics and business adminstration as well. And out of the later, everyone went to business consultancy. Actually, I am the only one being still a hardcore developer. The rest went to programming.

But, I do not understand the problem. Fear of getting a job? Fear of getting slowlaned? Fear of missing opportunities? Can you explain her mindset more.

 

[Bertram]

ASML in Wilton, CT loves Arizona State Optical grads. I would imagine she's already been scouted by them several times already though.

Thank you for this.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[broswoodwork]

Thank you for this.

Back when I was a technical recruiter working on their job requirements, Arizona State was automatic interview, and the job was almost always theirs, if they wanted it.

They pay HUGE too, on top of the work being mind blowingly interesting.

 

[Bertram]

Does she want to contact someone at an optical manufacturer? Maybe that's a good idea, even if it doesn't lead to anything. Put theory and practice together?

Should she choose this path or that one? Who knows? This question has been addressed many times, but I will remind you of a masterful answer:

So, I would like to offer another possibility: She could do her PhD in another field. Many of my friends did it and me as well. They studied physics up to their master degree and then switched. Most of the switchers went to engineering but some to economics and business adminstration as well. And out of the later, everyone went to business consultancy. Actually, I am the only one being still a hardcore developer. The rest went to programming.

But, I do not understand the problem. Fear of getting a job? Fear of getting slowlaned? Fear of missing opportunities? Can you explain her mindset more.

Hi thanks for these detailed insights. There's no fear of moving forward. In fact should there be any chance that any of her work presents her with the chance to travel to the International Space Station, she's going up.

The problem I present here is common among specialized scientists as they make progress deep in their departments' research bubbles. You've begun to provide answers.

If a scientist goes to work at a major private research facility after the PhD, or during the PhD, should they take any business courses to learn about how to ascend, thrive, make deals, collaborate while protecting assets?

Or should they just rely on learning from the community once they get there? That makes little sense, since most lower-tiered employees won't be staying that long. And some newcomers have deep understanding of corporate culture and business, while others have nothing but scarce anecdotes. Second generation Silicon Valler employees have real advantages over their peers who have never even overheard the issues that come up when you're working as a consulting scientist or in-house designer, or turning your research collaboration into a business partnership. Are these problems covered in a university business course?

Are there any business courses that help you thrive in the corporate beehive?
Or are there business courses a scientist should take to learn the business side of innovation, patents, licensing while in grad school?
Or is there enough information somewhere in a book?

That being said, physics programs are often taught by successful businessmen and inventors who will move in and out of univeristy positions over the course of their lives as they see the need. So every department has built in mentors. But that information will be hit or miss. Some faculty will be bitter and unhelpful about their business ventures, others will have performed poorly but think they have great advice to share.

So the question is not what path to take as a scientist, it's more like how a graduate student can learn about business - having one, working in one.

 

[Bertram]

Back when I was a technical recruiter working on their job requirements, Arizona State was automatic interview, and the job was almost always theirs, if they wanted it.

They pay HUGE too, on top of the work being mind blowingly interesting.

Small world. Over the last two generations the physicists have had more fun than most highly successful artists. It's often a very creative, energized bubble, just like the film-making community. Thanks for this info.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Mission1]

- I think "life ahead" might start with struggling to find a job. A PhD is enough to get an entry-level research job in a lab. It takes even more time to lead your own research. This is a blow to the ego for many star students. However, if researching something "hot" like new semiconductors, MEMs, lidar, etc. then this student could join a startup with their professor.
- You don't do a part-time PhD. It's a long road. Either take that path whole-heartedly, or not at all. If you start with 50% motivation, that's not enough.
- I don't understand your math. It costs at least 20K per year for a PhD student to live in a cheap city, so you can't save any money. The purpose of a scholarship is to spend more time on your research, not to save money.
- An MBA and a PhD are completely different. It sounds like this person does not have enough information to make such big decisions. Take a year off. Get some industry experience. Do an internship or two. Interview people in various fields.
- Lastly, I've met numerous physics PhDs who are working as Software Engineers. Seems like a waste of time to me. Oh, and then there's Elon Musk who dropped-out and started a company or two ;-)

 

[Roli]

In fact should there be any chance that any of her work presents her with the chance to travel the International Space Station, she's going up.

Wow, just wow. Every now and again I have deep regrets not listening to everyone and carrying on my education and interest in Physics and Chemistry, this is one of those times.

Wowzer, please give us an update on her path, especially if it leads her to the space station.

 

[Bertram]

- I think "life ahead" might start with struggling to find a job. A PhD is enough to get an entry-level research job in a lab. It takes even more time to lead your own research. This is a blow to the ego for many star students. However, if researching something "hot" like new semiconductors, MEMs, lidar, etc. then this student could join a startup with their professor.
- You don't do a part-time PhD. It's a long road. Either take that path whole-heartedly, or not at all. If you start with 50% motivation, that's not enough.
- I don't understand your math. It costs at least 20K per year for a PhD student to live in a cheap city, so you can't save any money. The purpose of a scholarship is to spend more time on your research, not to save money.
- An MBA and a PhD are completely different. It sounds like this person does not have enough information to make such big decisions. Take a year off. Get some industry experience. Do an internship or two. Interview people in various fields.
- Lastly, I've met numerous physics PhDs who are working as Software Engineers. Seems like a waste of time to me. Oh, and then there's Elon Musk who dropped-out and started a company or two ;-)

PhD's don't go on to entry level positions unless something went wrong somewhere.
You can start in a lab at the entry level as a college sophomore or before, then rise through the ranks with each summer and semester internship. That means 3 1/2 years of lab work and getting your work published before you start graduate school.

If you do an undergrad thesis it means you're being mentored as well and no longer entry level. That can rank a college senior higher as a research team member than inexperienced grad students in the same lab.

Grad school adds 4-5 years more experience, amounting to 7-8 years of work experience by age 25.

PhD programs offer concurrent PhD minors. So the question here is, why wait until after the PhD to get a clue about business success, management, etc.?

Graduate school stipends can be around $48K annually on top of free tuition.

PhD stipends for teaching or research are just like any normal paycheck.
You can take a vacation, hit conferences to network and still save $30K over 5 years depending on the city and climate.

You don't need to worry about being the brightest shining star of the research lab in order to have a fantastic career. A good set of golf clubs doesn't just consist of drivers. That's just another way of saying that you can do really well on a team once you know how you will uniquely contribute, rather than try to grab power and status.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bertram]

Wow, just wow. Every now and again I have deep regrets not listening to everyone and carrying on my education and interest in Physics and Chemistry, this is one of those times.

Wowzer, please give us an update on her path, especially if it leads her to the space station.

I don't know your age, but life is long, and answering a calling feels even better as the years accumulate. Fulfil those wishes. You still have the mind and energy within and the time is going to pass by anyway.
You have exponentially greater advantages now thanks to technology. What would you begin today?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

A friend of mine specializes in answering this question. He and I worked for a flow cytometry software company, and he expanded as a consultant. Let me know if you're interested, I'll DM his link.

 

[Roli]

I don't know your age, but life is long, and answering a calling feels even better as the years accumulate. Fulfil those wishes. You still have the mind and energy within and the time is going to pass by anyway.
You have exponentially greater advantages now thanks to technology. What would you begin today?

Well, when my fastlane boat comes in, perhaps I'll have the time then. At the moment I simply can't see the merit in investing so much time into what would be a hobby at best. I still keep as up to date as possible on interesting developments within the scientific world, and I guess I'm getting my logic fix from coding...

I'm 47 by the way, so a little long in the tooth

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.