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Hiring people for cheaper but expecting a similar result, delusional?

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LiveEntrepreneur

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Hey all,

Been a while since I posted but there's something I've been really curious about and I can't figure it out. When it comes to outsourcing jobs that are difficult sometimes people will hire people where rates are a lot cheaper than the big 4 though depending on what the job is it can either be shit or good, which i guess is the case everywhere but there's one thing. If I want to hire someone for let's say for Facebook Ads (which is a difficult skill) I notice a lot of the cheaper freelancers seem to not implement best practices and things seem a bit all over the shop. Do you think this is due to them just slapping "expert" on their job title and they are just trying to make a quick buck rather than learn the platform properly? In my experience and what I've seen there is skills you can outsource for a cheaper cost and some you can't. What am I missing?

The only thing I can think of is that they start from cheap rates as it's their first time on the platform and will eventually raise it but also not learning the platform properly or they are just looking for a quick buck.
 
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Private Witt

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Quick buck seekers, who churn low quality work, bad communication practices and have zero concept of long-term relationships, but there is gold out there if you have the patience to sift through and get burned a bunch, have had the same GD pulled off Fiverr a few years ago and the dude is a dream freelancer.
 

Tiago

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I've hired quite a few times on Fiverr, always go for the more expensive ones, normally with "Fiverr's Pro Choice" seal. Have never been disappointed.
 

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I've had quite a few disappointing results lately, myself. I've been paying over their asking rate hoping it will spur them to take it more seriously (spoiler: it didn't).

Although I have a few friends with VA's and Gig-Workers that churn out these amazing results for graphic design, pages, documents, and more.

Still looking!
 

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Finding good employees or labor these days is almost like finding a good real estate deal. They usually WILL NOT fall into your lap. You have to look for them in most cases. We hired one staff from the state of Oregon and lured her into our company because my wife saw her value and how over worked she was. Wasn't hard to persuade her to quit a state job, despite the fact that we couldn't compete with state wages/benefits. Good luck !
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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Quick buck seekers, who churn low quality work, bad communication practices and have zero concept of long-term relationships, but there is gold out there if you have the patience to sift through and get burned a bunch, have had the same GD pulled off Fiverr a few years ago and the dude is a dream freelancer.
One thing I don't get is even the cheaper experienced freelancers who have made 6 figures + don't seem to use their common sense. I had this with a client and he hired a developer who was building the product page and he took everything literally.

For example "hey man can you add these elements on the website?" he would but he would not use his common sense and put a gap between elements or say "this looks off I need to make some adjustments" it's just "I'll put it on there" and that's it, I don't get it? I'd understand if it was a complete beginner but even then.
 

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One thing I don't get is even the cheaper experienced freelancers who have made 6 figures + don't seem to use their common sense. I had this with a client and he hired a developer who was building the product page and he took everything literally.

For example "hey man can you add these elements on the website?" he would but he would not use his common sense and put a gap between elements or say "this looks off I need to make some adjustments" it's just "I'll put it on there" and that's it, I don't get it? I'd understand if it was a complete beginner but even then.

I know a brand that just paid 20k for a site that my old 5 year long Indian developer could of done for 200 and got a much better result. Another one that has a killer site just sitting there waiting to have a few hours of work done but will take months. I personally used to have to wait 3 months for a WP site to be built by these lazy asses and figured it out where I could get a full optimal site within a few days and a few days of optimization. In the end its one thing, ability to focus and an intensity of purpose to get it done. Ill probably do a 7 figure raise with a main site I paid under 500 (the value of my company is not from the site but it seals deals and works just fine).
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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I know a brand that just paid 20k for a site that my old 5 year long Indian developer could of done for 200 and got a much better result. Another one that has a killer site just sitting there waiting to have a few hours of work done but will take months. I personally used to have to wait 3 months for a WP site to be built by these lazy asses and figured it out where I could get a full optimal site within a few days and a few days of optimization. In the end its one thing, ability to focus and an intensity of purpose to get it done. Ill probably do a 7 figure raise with a main site I paid under 500 (the value of my company is not from the site but it seals deals and works just fine).
In my experience overseas developers like in India don't seem to do as good as a job as someone more expensive even like from the USA though they are really experienced? (according to their profile). What do you reckon is the cause of this? I think jobs that are either technical like fb ads (with the exception of things like coding), or any creative sort of work is a bad idea to outsource for cheaper as for some reason their creativity just isn't there. I can't figure it out lol.
 

Private Witt

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In my experience overseas developers like in India don't seem to do as good as a job as someone more expensive even like from the USA though they are really experienced? (according to their profile). What do you reckon is the cause of this? I think jobs that are either technical like fb ads (with the exception of things like coding), or any creative sort of work is a bad idea to outsource for cheaper as for some reason their creativity just isn't there. I can't figure it out lol.

Im not sure, but my guess is they are flipping jobs like people churn through hands at the blackjack tables and they just dont have the organization skills to keep up the business end, developing the jobs and learning as a professional. My guy had some limitations with skills and was hard to talk too, but he got it done, BUT I had to optimize a few things with every site and in the end it was his skill limitation that lead to a hacker attack as had to bring a few outsiders in and ended up taking 4 of my sites down and cost me a chunk of cash with cleanup and security. What I paid him, the optimization and cleanup still got me great sites for under 500 each, which is hella cheap IMO for a clean fast functioning WP site. It was hard to let him go, but the whole time difference and communication issues was the ending problem as I needed faster turn-around, also no weird communications with the person disappearing mid conversation and he just couldnt meet what I needed and now blowing in the wind by myself but not building and I can keep the sites humming along.
 
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LiveEntrepreneur

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Im not sure, but my guess is they are flipping jobs like people churn through hands at the blackjack tables and they just dont have the organization skills to keep up the business end, developing the jobs and learning as a professional. My guy had some limitations with skills and was hard to talk too, but he got it done, BUT I had to optimize a few things with every site and in the end it was his skill limitation that lead to a hacker attack as had to bring a few outsiders in and ended up taking 4 of my sites down and cost me a chunk of cash with cleanup and security. What I paid him, the optimization and cleanup still got me great sites for under 500 each, which is hella cheap IMO for a clean fast functioning WP site. It was hard to let him go, but the whole time difference and communication issues was the ending problem as I needed faster turn-around, also no weird communications with the person disappearing mid conversation and he just couldnt meet what I needed and now blowing in the wind by myself but not building and I can keep the sites humming along.
Yeah that's probably it, they don't have the skills, they exaggerate the ones they do have and say yes to every job. I'm starting to wonder the websites that they provide as part of their portfolio if they even worked on those websites lol.
 

Private Witt

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Yeah that's probably it, they don't have the skills, they exaggerate the ones they do have and say yes to every job. I'm starting to wonder the websites that they provide as part of their portfolio if they even worked on those websites lol.

Yah, they say yes as just see the money. I know they have buddies they ask for help for things they never have seen before and also spend a lot of time learning a new task and will take hours for something that takes 3 minutes or they just say cant be done when its a lie. Is why Id never do hourly with those guys and by the task or full completion of the site. And yes, they probably put fake work up there.
 

LiveEntrepreneur

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Yah, they say yes as just see the money. I know they have buddies they ask for help for things they never have seen before and also spend a lot of time learning a new task and will take hours for something that takes 3 minutes or they just say cant be done when its a lie. Is why Id never do hourly with those guys and by the task or full completion of the site. And yes, they probably put fake work up there.
Makes sense. I considered hourly but decided that setting fixed price was a better idea. What I think I'll do next is set a max hours per week cap on what I think the job is worth and how many hours, I got quoted imo way more hours then what I believe it takes and I've done a bit of web dev and similar stuff so I've got a decent idea of how long it should take.

He also seemed to avoid certain questions which probably should have been a red flag for me haha.
 

FastNAwesome

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In my experience, price and quality of work can vary a fair bit. So you may be able to find quality workers for less. But don't expect high quality work at low end prices. Good for you if you find it, but I think experienced professionals know their worth, even when they're giving you a deal.

I think it's better to focus on finding someone who's the right match for your business, and who you work well with. And then, perhaps it shouldn't even be about the price, but about earning more - both for yourself and for paying them. And about working less, as you have someone reliable.

There are also serious outsourcing companies, with actual offices, courses for their employees etc. where perhaps you won't get a super bargain, but may get a professional (or someone well on their way). So you could have someone work full-time for you, for e.g.half what you'd pay an in-house one, thanks to different cost of living in different places.

Either way, looking for a price deal or not, things I'd look for are:

- Communication. Is it timely, honest, addressing all your questions? Personally, without this, I don't move forward, either as a client or a worker. In my experience, if communication sucked to begin with, it didn't get better.

- Portfolio. If you're looking for a designer, do you like their design style, does it match what you need?

- References. Do they have any references you can contact? Or if it's reviews, the more you read through, the better.

I've had quite a few disappointing results lately, myself. I've been paying over their asking rate hoping it will spur them to take it more seriously (spoiler: it didn't).

If you're looking for a designer, @Nicoknowsbest rocks at design and is a great guy too. Not sure if he's taking on work currently. Maybe he chimes in.

If you're looking for a web developer, well versed in marketing, maybe I can help.
 
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LiveEntrepreneur

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In my experience, price and quality of work can vary a fair bit. So you may be able to find quality workers for less. But don't expect high quality work at low end prices. Good for you if you find it, but I think experienced professionals know their worth, even when they're giving you a deal.

I think it's better to focus on finding someone who's the right match for your business, and who you work well with. And then, perhaps it shouldn't even be about the price, but about earning more - both for yourself and for paying them. And about working less, as you have someone reliable.

There are also serious outsourcing companies, with actual offices, courses for their employees etc. where perhaps you won't get a super bargain, but may get a professional (or someone well on their way). So you could have someone work full-time for you, for e.g.half what you'd pay an in-house one, thanks to different cost of living in different places.

Either way, looking for a price deal or not, things I'd look for are:

- Communication. Is it timely, honest, addressing all your questions? Personally, without this, I don't move forward, either as a client or a worker. In my experience, if communication sucked to begin with, it didn't get better.

- Portfolio. If you're looking for a designer, do you like their design style, does it match what you need?

- References. Do they have any references you can contact? Or if it's reviews, the more you read through, the better.



If you're looking for a designer, @Nicoknowsbest rocks at design and is a great guy too. Not sure if he's taking on work currently. Maybe he chimes in.

If you're looking for a web developer, well versed in marketing, maybe I can help.
Yeah good points there.
 

samlarsonns

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Hey all,

Been a while since I posted but there's something I've been really curious about and I can't figure it out. When it comes to outsourcing jobs that are difficult sometimes people will hire people where rates are a lot cheaper than the big 4 though depending on what the job is it can either be shit or good, which i guess is the case everywhere but there's one thing. If I want to hire someone for let's say for Facebook Ads (which is a difficult skill) I notice a lot of the cheaper freelancers seem to not implement best practices and things seem a bit all over the shop. Do you think this is due to them just slapping "expert" on their job title and they are just trying to make a quick buck rather than learn the platform properly? In my experience and what I've seen there is skills you can outsource for a cheaper cost and some you can't. What am I missing?

The only thing I can think of is that they start from cheap rates as it's their first time on the platform and will eventually raise it but also not learning the platform properly or they are just looking for a quick buck.
Hiring a freelancer is always a gamble

for example - you could strike gold and find a good worker for a good price or hie an overpriced one
I recommend - always demand examples of the ones that work
negotiate all terms, especially the ones considering overdue
 

Alfie321

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In my experience overseas developers like in India don't seem to do as good as a job as someone more expensive even like from the USA though they are really experienced? (according to their profile). What do you reckon is the cause of this? I think jobs that are either technical like fb ads (with the exception of things like coding), or any creative sort of work is a bad idea to outsource for cheaper as for some reason their creativity just isn't there. I can't figure it out lol.

It really depends what's the purpose of that site. Are you looking to have just some landing pages? then yeah someone can get the job done for 200. It doesn't really matter if they use page builders and shit/dangerous plugins. You will probably not get burned from their mess due to the scale of your site.

If your platform needs some form of scalability or security is important to you, then I'd say 20k is the bare minimum to hire good talent who knows what they are doing just to have a basic site.

In my experience, I have found cheap Indian developers (expensive ones are as good as anyone) do the worst code ever. Full of scalability and security issues. You don't see the issues therefore you think they are "as good" but trust me, under the hood they are not, and chances are something smelly is cooking behind the scenes, ready to blow up as time goes by. Most WordPress plugins are coded awfully bad and won't scale. It has been a nightmare every single time and clients ended up paying way more to get things done right.
 

Private Witt

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Makes sense. I considered hourly but decided that setting fixed price was a better idea. What I think I'll do next is set a max hours per week cap on what I think the job is worth and how many hours, I got quoted imo way more hours then what I believe it takes and I've done a bit of web dev and similar stuff so I've got a decent idea of how long it should take.

He also seemed to avoid certain questions which probably should have been a red flag for me haha.

Yah that avoid question thing is pretty common, which makes me shake my head that already hurts from shaking so much. But I for sure avoid hourly and go fixed, but I do it with live work with my graphic designer from a South American who is a steal and I get a logo that others would charge 500 plus in under 2 hours for under 20 bucks. Not sure if others have had the great experience, but Ive had great luck with creative work with Venezuelans, both with quality and communication.
 

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