Have a SaaS Idea? Is it worth it? I'll tell you...

[Stephanos83]

Well, if the proprietary element will be strictly through contract agreements, disclosures, etc. I would recommend talking to a business lawyer about how to construct these. The important thing to is to get exclusivity of the arrangement for a predefined period of time. I would provide a caveat that the first few months of service are more trial-based with an option to cancel if not completely satisfied with the service. If they're satisfied, offer a tiered system that promotes buying the service on an annual or mutli annual basis with a significant discount over month-to-month rates. I would imagine you could place a matching clause in the contract agreement that would allow you the chance to match the offer of a would-be competitor. I'm no lawyer though. This is something you should look into. As an additional layer, you could develop proprietary hardware to go with the service. Not everyone has apple products. Are you providing the apple hardware in the offer?

 

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[mikekob]

Well, if the proprietary element will be strictly through contract agreements, disclosures, etc. I would recommend talking to a business lawyer about how to construct these. The important thing to is to get exclusivity of the arrangement for a predefined period of time.

I would provide a caveat that the first few months of service are more trial-based with an option to cancel if not completely satisfied with the service. If they're satisfied, offer a tiered system that promotes buying the service on an annual or mutli annual basis with a significant discount over month-to-month rates.

I would imagine you could place a matching clause in the contract agreement that would allow you the chance to match the offer of a would-be competitor. I'm no lawyer though. This is something you should look into.

As an additional layer, you could develop proprietary hardware to go with the service. Not everyone has apple products. Are you providing the apple hardware in the offer?

The Proprietary element is hidden from the customer. That's the back end. All they get to see is the two clients and watch it work. As for the exclusivity I'm a little confused. Do you mean of the tech and/or software? Were working in exclusivity for the first hospital to sign a contract with us. We decided there will be no "free trial runs". You get it in place and it's ready to go. Demand is too high to offer anything free at this point.

We are offering a tiered payment plan and a discount with a long contract and/or payment upfront.

I see. Hopefully this wont be an issue. As a small company we are agile. We're able to move about and change gears on projects within minutes. Don't like it? gone. Want something different? Done. There's no approvals, no meetings, no board rooms. We're agile and fast and in the amount of time it would take a large corporation to change it's gears it would be too late and too expensive. Boom. make that shit rain

As part of the initial setup the customer gets however many devices they want. Then they get the software and devices leased to them. So devices are included. Later down the line we would make products that are exclusive to our interfaces.

 

[Stephanos83]

The Proprietary element is hidden from the customer. That's the back end. All they get to see is the two clients and watch it work. As for the exclusivity I'm a little confused. Do you mean of the tech and/or software? Were working in exclusivity for the first hospital to sign a contract with us. We decided there will be no "free trial runs". You get it in place and it's ready to go. Demand is too high to offer anything free at this point.

We are offering a tiered payment plan and a discount with a long contract and/or payment upfront.

I see. Hopefully this wont be an issue. As a small company we are agile. We're able to move about and change gears on projects within minutes. Don't like it? gone. Want something different? Done. There's no approvals, no meetings, no board rooms. We're agile and fast and in the amount of time it would take a large corporation to change it's gears it would be too late and too expensive. Boom. make that shit rain

As part of the initial setup the customer gets however many devices they want. Then they get the software and devices leased to them. So devices are included. Later down the line we would make products that are exclusive to our interfaces.

Sounds like you've got the details all buttoned up. As I already said, the idea sounds great and solves a legitimate problem. Would love to hear more on your progress in the future and the challenges you end up facing. Best of luck to you in getting this thing running.

 

[mikekob]

Thanks man!! I've definitely looked at this from very aspect to have maximum a$$ kicking. I think my favorite part is the greed and competition between the hospitals. Ha ha hospitals.

So OP who wins?

 

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[franco68]

Hey buddy,

Currently validating this idea: http://www.LaunchVal.com

Basically, it's a landing page builder for startups to validate their ideas, and allows them to check if people will Pay for their idea (by a mock-up billing page). I've already build a lot of the technology as we use it internally, but we're working out if the market is big enough, and if people want it, before I go and build the full system.

I like LaunchVal.com! Congrats!
GREAT: idea and design (wow)
QUESTION MARKS: (1) targeting potential customers can be really difficult (2) without terms and conditions/privacy policy, Google won't allow you to advertise

Good luck!

 

[franco68]

Hey All, I've been working on bringing some good educational content to the forum (checkout my threads) and I wanted to tackle evaluating SaaS value propositions and defining minimum viable products by example.

If you've got a Software as a Service idea for B2B, Post the generic idea here without naming the industry and list your feature set and I will give you a free evaluation on the profitability of the idea here on the thread. I want people to see what a good SaaS product looks like and what a bad SaaS product looks like for startup entrepreneurs breaking out into their first product.

NO ONE IS TRYING TO STEAL YOUR IDEA GET OVER IT. Don't get into details but give me enough so I can provide you value and point you in the right direction while helping others here on the forum.

THERE"S ALSO A PRIZE: I WILL WRITE A PITCHDECK FOR THE BEST IDEA SO YOU CAN GO PRESELL YOU SAAS PRODUCT.

For the person offering the best value to their clients I'll create a 10 slide pitch deck honing your value proposition and set you up with everything you need to walk up to your client and pitch them to buy 6 months of the service before you've even built the product so that you can fund development without any of your own cash.

Caveat: The winning idea must be worth $1,000,000

This is not as hard as it sounds, if you can prove to me that you know your market intimately, that you have a product worth $200/month solving a $2,000/month problem for your customer, and there are more than 10K customers in your market you've got a million dollar idea. Neat right!?

So let's get the party started, this is a great opportunity for fun, learning, and for you to make some serious cash if you've got a killer idea. Looking forward to this!

GREAT blog entry. I might share our startup idea later, but HIGHLY RECOMMEND reading to anyone in SaaS:

The SaaS Startup Killer by VC David Skok (and why LTV should be at least 3x > CAC !!!)
http://www.forentrepreneurs.com/startup-killer/

 

[Fulfilled]

Monday is for. There are "similar" systems out there but I've never seen them in place. Very expensive, only agencies with certain monitors are able to participate which is difficult because of the ten+ agencies here there's 5 different monitors in use.

The medics still interpret and treat and transport based off their clinical findings. The only difference is whether or not the hospital activates and therefore wastes the thousands of dollars. The goal us not to eliminate the paramedics ability to interpret in the field but with such poor numbers there's gotta be a solution. Hence me and my product.

Hardware is Apple hardware. As for the software it's still under wraps. I'd love to share more but right now I can't. Takes the mystery out of it. Ha ha

Liability is zero. Well, we need to adhere to HIPAA standards which this does and more.

We've been developing this over the last year or so and to this day I have yet to hear a single shred of a downside.

I got the first draft of our white papers done this morning. I'd love to trade you some knowledge of our product for your input based off those papers if you shoot me your email.

You'd be surprised how simple this whole product is. Our MVP is just about done minus some testing but were looking at almost no overhead.

Mike

Hey man,

I did a quick google search of your idea yesterday. I found something that I thought you'd like to know.

I found a report created by med school students about transmitting ECG using an iPhone. It looks like a cheap iPhone apps exist, designed to transmit ECG straight from infield to the physician. How is would you solution be different from this?

 

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[Fulfilled]

Free app: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/fastecg/id477985471?mt=8
An improve, more effective version being developed by med school students:

Edit: lol I hope these apps isn't exactly the same as the MVP your talking about. Because like you said, the hardware is apple (iPhone) and the software is surprisingly simple (take a picture of the graph paper then send them to the physician)

 

[mikekob]

So that's being used in Switzerland and a few other European countries and is not HIPAA compliant. The web based login by using a code is a pain in the a$$ in the back of an ambulance. It shows the EKG on a website instead of alerting the ER itself.

Concept is there. Execution is marginal.

 

[Fulfilled]

So that's being used in Switzerland and a few other European countries and is not HIPAA compliant. The web based login by using a code is a pain in the a$$ in the back of an ambulance. It shows the EKG on a website instead of alerting the ER itself.

Concept is there. Execution is marginal.

What I'm concerned about is how simple the concept is. An app that takes pictures, then sends it to an external server with a few specific features to meet the needs of the EMT and the physician is very cheap. Like under 1k cheap. If your charging, say 200 a month, and hospitals are finding it incredibly useful, what's stopping them from hiring a bespoke developer to develop it for them?

Actually, a simple app like this could be made then distributed free by anyone because it's so cheap to build. Think med school students.

 

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[mikekob]

If it's so simple, cheap, and easy why isn't it done already? Hospitals don't want to develop in house because they're slow and expensive.

And at the end of the day there isn't any reason 50 people couldn't bust something out like this. But in the meantime I'll go ahead and saddle up for the ride. I'm sure there will be copy cars that pop up after the fact but that's gonna happen in any and every market.

 

[fuller]

I am currently working on a prototype for my slowlane job. I work in the finance/accounting department and am responsible for tracking all expenses for our projects. In my industry, we have many projects that take place out of the office for months. Essentially, we create a sample project, pitch to large buyers and once they order it, we're in business.

This is a very cash-flow dependent industry and real-time cost tracking is a must. However, it's also an industry with unique rules/laws and dominated by proprietary software. Our accounting software is proprietary and services only this industry. In other words, while an ERP would do everything I'm trying to accomplish, nobody in this industry is willing to shell out that kind of money for it. On top of that, this industry is really old-school and set in its ways (It took me 2 years of convincing to move from a paper system to a cloud-based spreadsheet one).

My idea is to create an order accounts payable tracking service for these projects, accessible on the web and mobile, that logs the users in of each project, generate a unique number based on the project, and allows them to enter the costs/accounting account codes/etc. Supervisors would be able to approve within the system and it'd still be able to print out the forms for backup.

Initially, I decided to undergo this project to make my life easier. I was going to charge ~$100/m per project to my company and go from there. But the more I asked around, all of the project managers loved the idea. And given that all the project crew are freelance and jump from project to project, I can potentially spread the word through them. I can also try to pitch it to any of the proprietary accounting services in my industry as an addon to their services. I'm curious on your thoughts on this. I tried to be as specific as possible without giving away my industry but I can PM that to you and I think it'll make more sense.

 

[alexanderkjones]

Ok fellas I'm back. Looks like we've got some work to do!

@mikekob OK - DO NOT HAVE YOUR CLIENTS SIGN AN NDA. You have zero leverage and an Idea. It's a rookie mistake and you'll look incredibly green so just don't do it.

Second, @Stephanos83 and @Fulfilled included in this, you're value in a software product is in the relationship you build with the client not in proprietary legal agreements. It's software, anyone can do it, what people don't do is make the connections. @mikekob has the balls to walk into a hospital board room and pitch that's 1000X more than most would ever do. He's got experience in the field, understands the problem intimately, and has a great solution.

GOLDEN RULE: If it's not simple it's too complicated

Simple is gold, simple is everything that works. Anything complicated was something simple with a bunch of other simple things stacked onto it. Complicated breaks, fails, sucks. Don't do it.

GOLDEN RULE #2: Plan on competition, what's your unfair advantage?

@mikekob You initial advantage is you'll be first to market it here which is huge. Your relationships, marketing, customer service and reliability will be the determining factor for you. I highly doubt you'll run into challenges with other developers understanding the problem as closely as you do, use that to your advantage.

SO @fuller Way to Sneak in at the last minute. Yeah I'm talking to you

So, you've got a niche industry, with a problem. You've got a solution that's strait forward and relatively simple. It can run independently of proprietary software or partner with it and it's currently an underserved market. I Really like the looks of this, but I don't see any numbers.

1) Without naming your industry, how many companies like your's exist?
2) How big of a problem is this? Is money being lost in time or man hours because of this problem? How much?

I DECLARE A POTENTIAL TIE!
​

@fuller you are the surprise contender here. I was going to give it to @mikekob but you snuck in!

Now! Every One Listen Up!

This is why I did this, I wanted you all to see what good opportunities look like and how they are found. Look at both @mikekob and @fuller 's ideas here. They both have the following BEAUTIFUL things in common:

1) They work in the industry they are solving the problem for. In truth they are solving their own problem which is why they understand it inside and out. You have got to understand your client and it's no accident most successful entrepreneurs are the archetype of their own ideal client starting out. This doesn't mean you can't find value propositions and understand people's problems in other market it just proves the importance of digging deep and really getting in there to find the gold.

2) BOTH IDEAS ARE SIMPLE! That's it! It's simple, here's a picture of an EKG, oh here's an accounting add on that tracks 3 points of information. SIMPLE, EASY, WINNERS! Like I've said before if you've got more than 2 features it's too complicated.

3) They are both new to market, this is a huge advantage. We're always looking for infinite upside in our business opportunities and both have them here.

GOLDEN RULE #3 LISTEN UP!: Sexy Is Not Fastlane, let me repeat - Sexy Is Not Fastlane

Money is mechanical, it's simple and it's strait forward it's not sexy. It's not the next Facebook it's not something with a million wizbang features. I cannot stress this enough, look at @fuller he's post. How boring does this sound? Sorry @fuller, but that's exactly why it's so great! You can fly past every other entrepreneur with an ego and a chip on their shoulder and get right to solving problems making cash-flow and getting in the fast lane.

SO.......

@fuller, PM your numbers and prove to me that there's a million dollar market in this idea. Read this thread from the beginning to see my formulas for evaluating markets. If you can prove you've got a million dollar idea we'll schedule a call and get you up to speed on making this thing happen.

@mikekob You have a Million Dollar Idea my friend. Now it's time to make a million dollar execution. Let's schedule a call with you and your partner and see if we can make it happen. I'll email you with details.

FOR ANYONE READING THIS POST THE WINNERS HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED!
I will still answer your questions on this thread but the prizes have been claimed!​

 

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[mikekob]

Hell yes.

 

[jarecki]

Hey alexanderkjones, I've got an idea for a dropshipping automation SaaS for retailers. I'll repost some content of e-mail I've just sent to MJ.

I'm starting to build a SaaS automation product for drop ship e-commerce and I've found some competition. It's good I think, people want to pay for that kind of service.

There are about 7 players to handle:
* 2 of them doesn't target drop shipping, though they provide a service of drop shipping automation but it's not their goal to sell this one only
* 2-3 of them may be a competition
* but one of them is totally outstanding - guy spent 2 years on his own drop shipping e-commerce, built a product that suits himself (just like in Re-work by 37signals), has picked partners that bring together 80% of paying market and purely wants to deliver the most quality product on the market;
Though he has his own disadvantages, his copy isn't perfect, his pricing's elevated (more than average, but I think it's well-played) and it's strictly a one man show.

But I consider him a threat, because I can smell the process right here.

Though it's a one man show, he's dangerous because he was able to outstand in quality most of the competition.

Is he worth competing? If he is, how to beat him?

 

[damiandabcom]

Hi alexanderkjones,

I'm wordpress website builder and after spending many days and hours fixing compatibility issues between wordpress plugins and themes, looking for the best theme frameworks and marketing plugins in wordpress jungle, I was in search for an easy solution to create a website or blog with pre-configured marketing features, social media tools and integrated email service.

I created a web application I called fruittree - http://getfruittree.com, it's wordpress multisite based platform with pre-configured website with marketing features and autoresponder system. I'm using ready solutions of best(in my opinion) theme and plugins providers, I took me many months of testing to find only good plugins and configure all them together. It was not easy as I'm only designer, coder and project manager in one person in our 2 persons startup.

With this application you can create in seconds a ready wordpress website with clean and responsive design, opt-in boxes, newsletter and autoresponder system connected with third-party transactional email service and many more cool features I installed there also a social networks autoposter that send a post announce up to 24 social platforms.

The idea was to create an app, where the user can fully concentrate on content. After an article is published a newsletter with post announce is automatically created and sent to subscriber list and the post announce is sent to all configured social networks.

You can test fruittree, there is a 14 days trial period and no payment data required.

I'm thinking to create similar web application, but put there more online business and marketing features, extend it about online community with group live chat and a training area with video tutorials.

I'm wondering what do you think about this app and idea to create another one with many more features and the community area.

Regards,
Damian

 

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[Uzairah]

I have an idea, it's oil and gas. I was approached by two hiring managers and they told me their problems when it comes to hiring contractors so the problem is there and defined. The solution is to create a website that allows contractors to post their profile and skills as well as upload required documents that companies use to prequalify contractors.

The website will have the following features:

Database to find contractors with the right skills and who have been prequalified.
Their schedule and availability as well as hourly rate.
We will take care of payroll and payments.

There will be no bidding and it will be for short term hires only. There are plenty of websites out there that are for hiring people and even prequalifying but people have nothing but complaints about them especially for this industry and we plan on making it super easy for a hiring manager to find people that he needs. What do you think of this idea and is there any software or existing platform you'd recommend we could base it off.

 

[Fulfilled]

Is he worth competing? If he is, how to beat him?

Can you do it differently or better than him?

 

[jarecki]

Can you do it differently or better than him?

I can do it differently, but I like his style though.
I can do some of the things better and target the product more precisely or in a different direction. The thing is I think don't have a real edge on him yet.

 

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[alexanderkjones]

Hey Fellas! A Few Thoughts. As a whole I think you all need a little tweaking to make your concepts less broad and more competitive. Let's see what we can do here.

Hey alexanderkjones, I've got an idea for a dropshipping automation SaaS for retailers. I'll repost some Though it's a one man show, he's dangerous because he was able to outstand in quality most of the competition.
Is he worth competing? If he is, how to beat him?

No, do not compete with this guy. He's established a network and is in the game, you're just getting started. Find a drop-ship niche that's too small for a big player to go after but will get you cash-flow to get started. I honestly don't know much about drop ship but I'm assuming there are several types of products so focus on building a service for people who want a specific blend of drop ship products. Maybe it's power tools, or water fountains. Whatever it is find a niche, don't try and serve everyone. Ideally, I'm assuming this leads into an ecommerce product? I know nothing about drop shipping, I do know a lot about let's say... garden tools. If you had a drag and drop solution I could set up a garden shop online with drop ship I'm in. Take that further, what about brick and mortar stores? Couldn't they use some online presence that take no inventory space? Dig a bit deeper there...

Hi alexanderkjones,
I'm wondering what do you think about this app and idea to create another one which much more features and community area.

@damiandabcom , awesome helmet. Ok, this is so broad you're going to have a hard time getting traction and fighting off competition. Take this product and market it directly to a niche industry that has shitty websites and has never heard of auto responders. Build email campaigns and marketing streams to increase their revenues and blow their minds. I'm very hesitant to buy into this wordpress SaaS platform. Everyone loves something that works but most people will go for squarespace and a webber. You're value here is in you knowledge around marketing online. Use that as your value proposition and bring it to customers who need it and don't know the first thing about it.

I have an idea, it's oil and gas.

I don't know what this means but I like the phrase....

OK, @Uzairah you've got to add a key feature if you're going to promote a platform like this. Who's the gatekeeper? Who's curating the talent? There's a reason these types of sites get a lot of complaints, it's because the creators think they can set it up and leave it alone and it will make money for them. FALSE, you have to curate this stuff and be active in the process or it just sucks.

Check out a friend of mine's app over at www.owneraide.com. He's giving real-estate agents a tool to stay in touch with clients and provide value after the sale buy giving them a tool to create their own network of contractors and home service professionals that they can promote to past clients. Who are you going to have sell your house, the guy who sent you a magnet for your refrigerator or the guy who found you a plumber when your pipes burst. No brainer. Here are the keys to this platform, he's creating value for the realtor incentivizing him to be the curator so my buddy can be hands off and focus on sales. He's a smart guy that one.

 

[damiandabcom]

Everyone loves something that works but most people will go for squarespace and a webber. You're value here is in you knowledge around marketing online. Use that as your value proposition and bring it to customers who need it and don't know the first thing about it.

Thank you @alexanderkjones , I really appreciate your advice. I know squarespace, weebly and similar site builders, the reason I chose the wordpress instead of building my own system with django or ruby on rails, were my clients, who request wordpress for every their website. Other reason are internet marketers, they're using wordpress for their blogs or membership websites in combination with infusionsoft,hubspot, aweber, hootsuite or other solutions, which automate their daily social media marketing tasks. My idea was to put everything in one system and offer better pricing, as I have almost no maintenance costs(open source, premium plugins and fully managed server), of course I can't compare with infusionsoft or aweber, but as you advised me, my idea was to bring it to the customers who just getting started with online marketing.
Regards,
Damian

 

[tafy]

Another Question

I am thinking of making a wireframe mockup of my saas idea, partly for my education and to use to get some quotes from a saas builing company. is that a good idea?

 

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[RoadTrip]

Currently I am working on something similar to bernieshawn’s solution. Basically it’s a niche specific task manager and small CRM (only client details, no invoicing, etc.) that gives my clients a bird view of all their clients, relationships, tasks, logins and more. The tasks can be defined as recurring and are always related to clients. Functionalities are the following:

• Clients/contacts CRM and possibility to add extra information (client logins, client specials, client services, client questions, etc.)
• Recurring tasks related to clients are automatically created
• Status of task completion
• Option to add on-the-fly tasks and relate/connect them to a client/contact

I am still very much in doubts however. The companies in my niche have a lot of recurring tasks/services that they complete for their clients and the majority (90%) of the companies are still using about 3-4 different Excel sheets for tracking this information. They are using different colors to differentiate in statuses.

My problem is that I am not sure if the pain is big enough. I have talked to about 50-60 business owners and the majority is telling me that they are perfectly fine with their current Excel solution. They mention that their biggest complaint is their clients who are not doing what they tell them. The 2-3 owners who said they are really looking for the task management solution keep me motivated however. I also think that a simple to use SaaS product would really help their business as they will be better able to get a hold on their workflows, statuses and ad hoc customer requests and could spend more time on for example advising their customers.

Your post is exactly what I am looking for at this moment. I am really hoping that you can give me some advice on the following doubts:

1. What do you think of the idea?
2. Do you think the pain is big enough just by the fact that so many companies are still using multiple Excel sheets even though they mention they are perfectly fine?
3. Should I keep focusing on this niche or move on to another niche?

Since I live in a smaller country there are about 17k business in my niche.

 

[tafy]

If businesses use excel then you have a pain, they will use your software once you convince them with a free trial. I would build in invoicing system too especially if it helps sell your system to businesses.

Your software will be backed up and secure too, if their pc crashes they are screwed

 

[Steve Corcoran]

I have always wanted to build a hotel booking software. The market is huge and there are already 30+ players.

Problems Currently:
Half of them are old as hell
A lot are made for big hotels of 50+ rooms with matching price tag
Some of them are quite expensive (the good ones)
A lot are built wrong and cant be changed to provide things hotels need without rewriting the whole software (obsolete i guess) Some of the new providers have programmed their system like this and have talked with them personally about the shortcommings of their saas solution and they said they cant/wont fix it.

Cost of making a cloud booking system from a company is around 200-300k dollars, it cant be made with freelancers. Each customer would be worth 50-100 dollars a month depending on size and services they need.

To get 1 million turnover I would need 14k customers. $75 avg

What you think?

I know absolutely nothing about the hotel booking industry fyi. But is this a service for the hotel or customers looking to book with a hotel?

 

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[tafy]

I know absolutely nothing about the hotel booking industry fyi. But is this a service for the hotel or customers looking to book with a hotel?

Service for the hotel, they load in their inventory (rooms), pictures, rates, special offers etc

Then the software updates all the various websites with the available rooms and prices and takes any booking that they produce, and updates the availability. theres more to it but this is the main use.

 

[Steve Corcoran]

Interesting! Are you a software developer, or would you hire someone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve Corcoran]

Service for the hotel, they load in their inventory (rooms), pictures, rates, special offers etc

Then the software updates all the various websites with the available rooms and prices and takes any booking that they produce, and updates the availability. theres more to it but this is the main use.

Interesting! Are you a software developer, or would you hire someone?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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[tafy]

Interesting! Are you a software developer, or would you hire someone?

I got a Computer Science degree but I cant code to save my life lol

I just got a quote today from a quality programming company that builds and maintains saas software and it seems I am close on the costings

They said the mvp would cost 100-160k dollars and then another 100k+ yearly spend for R&D

 

[alexanderkjones]

@damiandabcom Sounds like you're on the right track targeting Marketers who need a drag and drop solution that's great!

@tafy ABSOLUTELY! I make all my clients build pitch decks and presell before spending any money on development. If you can't sell it on paper you're sure as hell not going to get a client to sit down and watch you navigate a site. I don't believe in taking money from people who can't sell. Additionally, mock ups are the best communication tool for the web developer and should be built by the entrepreneur based off of customer feedback. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, MAKE WIREFRAMEs AND GET FEEDBACK FROM POTENTIAL CLIENTS! -end rant

@Senergia great questions!

1) Listen to your clients. If it's not a problem it's not a problem. Maybe you can find a way to quantify the work on excel by finding how long they spend moving things around, their process might be simple enough that they don't need it.

2) Listen to your clients, If getting customers to do their part is their biggest pain point why not create a CRM that gives customers alerts and reminders for all of their responsibilities throughout the process. If it actually motivates the customer to move faster you've now solved a BIG pain right? Go back and see if that would be worth something to your prospective clients Merry Christmas..

3) If you've spent time in this niche, and they spend considerable amounts of money, there must be something they could be doing more efficiently. Keep an eye out for a new market but keep digging a bit here to see if you can find something. There's nothing wrong with playing the field though, keep talking with people in different industries so if you decide this is not going to work you've already got a few options in the back pocket. If there isn't a big pain point right now, how could you help them grow their business? You just to find a way to get your client more income, sometimes that's from solving problems, sometimes that's from helping them generate leads.

GOLDEN RULE: YOU CAN ALWAYS GO UP, YOU CAN"T KEEP GOING DOWN

Look Ya'll, at a certain point a business will be running optimally, all the problems will be fixed and if any remain they will be dwarfed by the amount of revenue coming in the door. The next step is building up! It's just as import and and you can find software solutions to help businesses grow. Keep an ear out for both types of opportunities.