Eroticus Pornoticus: Writing Erotic Romance Help Thread

[Charnell]

Sometimes, stereotypes are there for a reason

Can confirm.

 

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[Selfy]

@ChickenHawk had a point in that I didn't word that post eloquently, which is a cardinal sin for a writer. So I apologize there was a miscommunication. It only reflects how much I need to learn about writing. I have nothing but respect for you females (moreso bc a female readership provides my income); at the end of the day, this is just a business venture.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Funny how I'm being attacked when I was offended in the first place not by the books themselves, but the post.

My intention was never to "attack" you, but to offer a counter-argument to views I disagree with. If you felt attacked by my opposing viewpoint, I apologize. Your post, it seemed, was speaking "on behalf of all women." I just wanted to clarify that as a woman, a writer, a reader, and a forum member, I wasn't distressed by his post (even if I did find some points amusing). I didn't agree with everything he stated, but I'd hate to see such viewpoints censored, because it stifles what I consider to be a legitimate conversation about the topic-at-hand. What DO women like in Erotica? What kind of women enjoy particular books? What are they looking for? What kind of main characters are popular? Alpha? Beta? Werewolf? Vampire? Human?

Just to clarify, it's not your disagreement of his "alpha" premise that concerned me. It was the fact that you were telling him, on his own progress thread, that he needed to censor his theories. This forum is a terrific place, and the mods are wonderful about making sure it doesn't degenerate into locker-room trashiness. But a thread that's expressly (and quite obviously) about erotica might not be the best thread for someone who's offended by the topic.

All that aside, good luck in your writing-venture! It sounds like you're going the traditional route, seeking an agent and publisher? I hope you start a progress thread and keep us posted!

 

[SES93]

My intention was never to "attack" you, but to offer a counter-argument to views I disagree with. If you felt attacked by my opposing viewpoint, I apologize. Your post, it seemed, was speaking "on behalf of all women." I just wanted to clarify that as a woman, a writer, a reader, and a forum member, I wasn't distressed by his post (even if I did find some points amusing). I didn't agree with everything he stated, but I'd hate to see such viewpoints censored, because it stifles what I consider to be a legitimate conversation about the topic-at-hand. What DO women like in Erotica? What kind of women enjoy particular books? What are they looking for? What kind of main characters are popular? Alpha? Beta? Werewolf? Vampire? Human?

Just to clarify, it's not your disagreement of his "alpha" premise that concerned me. It was the fact that you were telling him, on his own progress thread, that he needed to censor his theories. This forum is a terrific place, and the mods are wonderful about making sure it doesn't degenerate into locker-room trashiness. But a thread that's expressly (and quite obviously) about erotica might not be the best thread for someone who's offended by the topic.

All that aside, good luck in your writing-venture! It sounds like you're going the traditional route, seeking an agent and publisher? I hope you start a progress thread and keep us posted!

Thanks yes it's a historical coffee table book with personal accounts/oral history interviews and photos I am not offended by this type of book. On the contrary! That is why I clicked on this thread; was thinking about writing this type of book or some type of short story. I completely mis-stated my original post. In my mind I was thinking I was preventing locker room discussion, I guess the wording rubbed me the wrong way in how women were talked about in reference to the books. I am in no way offended by the books I read one a few years ago writeren by a woman and it was pretty darn good.

 

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[Selfy]

What kind of main characters are popular? Alpha? Beta? Werewolf? Vampire? Human?

There are so much innovations in this character aspect, and some authors are killing it by taking risks. An alpha male can be covered in so many different skins, earthy and otherwordly, and erotica, with its short format is an excellent place to test these new 'concepts' before committing to longer works.

There are even more fetishes now than when I started, brand-new fetishes, manifestations, which recently have been connected via new social-media platforms made specifically for kinks where you can read them talk about what turns them on, so that you can angle your story with some serious accuracy. I think the kink industry is a ripe place for disruptions, and innovation... there will only be more growth.

 

[ChickenHawk]

The need I understand as well. Basically they want fantasy the same way guys want porn. They want an alpha male but they are not willing (or unable) to get their dream man. So they resort to the ice cream version of their alpha man.

I meant to chime in on this earlier, but got all distracted. (Oooh, a shiny object!...)

In my experience, this is only half-true. Women DO seek out the fantasy, but not necessarily because they don't have (or can't get) dream guys of their own. From my Facebook Fan page, here's an interesting nugget. Most of my fans are married. And from their Facebook posts, most seem to be happily married to men who ARE their dream guys.

But sometimes, I think, there's a difference between your real-life dream guy and a fantasy fictional guy that you borrow for an hour or two. For example, in my books, the hero might literally beat someone's a$$ for picking on his gal. In real life, I'd be HORRIFIED if my husband acted that way. Also, in real-life, my husband has other things to worry about than simply my happiness (oh, the horror!). He doesn't have washboard abs or groupies chasing after him. He's not famous or particularly rich (Heck, he's not even a Fastlaner). But he's still my dream guy. He's the father of my son and the guy who makes me laugh.

These "book-boyfriends" serve a different purpose. They can be wilder, more dangerous, forbidden, the kind of guy you'd be stupid to hook up with in real life. For women, reading these books creates the illusion of danger, like riding a roller-coaster. When the ride is over, you return to your nice, smart, life, having experienced a nice, safe thrill. That, IMO, is why extreme-alpha males are so popular in romantic fiction.

Anyway, all this to say, I do agree that women want fiction-fantasy the way guys want porn. I just don't agree that it's because they can't get (or don't want) real men of their own.

 

[Selfy]

I meant to chime in on this earlier, but got all distracted. (Oooh, a shiny object!...)

In my experience, this is only half-true. Women DO seek out the fantasy, but not necessarily because they don't have (or can't get) dream guys of their own. From my Facebook Fan page, here's an interesting nugget. Most of my fans are married. And from their Facebook posts, most seem to be happily married to men who ARE their dream guys.

Inside fantasy books is where pretty, little lies perish.

We desire what we desire. In this forum, it is money. But what makes a billionaire so alluring and seductive that females world fork money just to experience one between words? And do the guys here want the bling bling or the sex? How will money affect their primal need? Will it be hidden in a hotel room overlooking a strip or repressed into a religious figure or drowned out by even more work? What if all these ebook they read is just a means to appease their appetite? Imagine their tenacity, imagine their ruthlessness. Imagine all that POWER. Are we underneath it all just reptilian in nature looking for a release that never fully satiates? Desire, lust - these are powerful stuff - primal and human and base.

Just my view. But you're the best seller so your grasp of this is beyond mine.

 

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[Selfy]

And time for some erotic music:

 

[ChickenHawk]

We desire what we desire. In this forum, it is money. And do the guys here want the bling bling or the sex?

My theory? Bling-bling and sex are nice. But what Fastlaners really want is freedom.

 

[Selfy]

My theory? Bling-bling and sex are nice. But what Fastlaners really want is freedom.

Yes, but that's too real world. I won't be able to sell that in smut.

 

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[Vigilante]

Yes, but that's too real world. I won't be able to sell that in smut.

There's one disconnect that I see. A lot of the successful erotica that I am familiar with is not necessarily smut. I think you are tending to write about your readers as if porn watchers are wanting to buy some literature to read. I imagine the market is more fragmented than that. I think porn viewers view porn, and I think the people that purchase erotica ranging from mild to aggressive are likely a different customer than the average Hustler channel subscriber.

The most successful fictional sex books on the market are not solely focused on the "smut" to borrow your word. They're well crafted story lines, with characters that people can fall "in love with" and the sex is a natural part of their story.

Why is this distinction important? I think if you set out to write a smut book, you're targeting the porn crowd and they're not the lions share of the market. They're a subset of the market, and certainly some will buy, but if the objective is to move from a book draft into scale, I think you're missing the lions share of the demographic.

So... this thread was started a few years ago. Where are YOU AT on your journey? Are you a hobbyist who liked porn enough that you thought you could get rich writing a smut book? If so... where are you at on the book? Or, are you an author who wanted to dip your ... toes ... into this genre?

I have a friend who is a best selling author, and another who is on her way with her first few books out. Their success is mostly derived from their expertise in language and writing... and erotica just happens to be the category they selected for various reasons.

Are you a porn fan who wants to write a book, or a writer who is interested in the market potential for your chosen "smut?" What is driving you, and what have you done with it in the past two years since you started this thread?

 

[Selfy]

There's one disconnect that I see. A lot of the successful erotica that I am familiar with is not necessarily smut. I think you are tending to write about your readers as if porn watchers are wanting to buy some literature to read. I imagine the market is more fragmented than that. I think porn viewers view porn, and I think the people that purchase erotica ranging from mild to aggressive are likely a different customer than the average Hustler channel subscriber.

The most successful fictional sex books on the market are not solely focused on the "smut" to borrow your word. They're well crafted story lines, with characters that people can fall "in love with" and the sex is a natural part of their story.

Why is this distinction important? I think if you set out to write a smut book, you're targeting the porn crowd and they're not the lions share of the market. They're a subset of the market, and certainly some will buy, but if the objective is to move from a book draft into scale, I think you're missing the lions share of the demographic.

First, thank you for not shutting down the thread. I thought it would be shut down because of the nature of the thread.

I refer to 'smut' which i refer to as 'kink' which is some really weird fetish. Like scat, to put bluntly, or milking lactation. Usually runs to 5k words.

What I think you're referring to is romance-erotica or romance. That is, erotica with some story-lines. And then there is romance, which is heavy on the story lines. The higher you go in the ladder of 'appropriateness' the higher the craftiness of your work has to be, meaning, at the romance level that is 80k word lengths would require serious plotting, characterization, and understanding of writing/story-telling. Basically, the middle ground is romance-erotica which I am currently doing and dipping my toes into erotica.

So... this thread was started a few years ago. Where are YOU AT on your journey? Are you a hobbyist who liked porn enough that you thought you could get rich writing a smut book? If so... where are you at on the book? Or, are you an author who wanted to dip your ... toes ... into this genre?

Actually I have a progress thread in the self-pub section. Long story short, I read HFR, didnt know what I was doing, wrote books, got success, surprised, so wrote more books, got success, then I pivoted to the outsource model, got even more success, and when kdp 2.0 hit, I was just lucky enough to survive. Now I write these books myself.

What have I done in two years? I have over hundred books published. Short stories mostly. I can bang out a 5k word sex scene in 3 hours and attach a story to it and pub it the same day, and with a cover. Then I can test it and see if it converts. I can troubleshoot it if it doesn't. Ultimately, I picked up the minimum skills.

I have a friend who is a best selling author, and another who is on her way with her first few books out. Their success is mostly derived from their expertise in language and writing... and erotica just happens to be the category they selected for various reasons.

I am far from a best selling author. I am a bottom-feeder who was swept by the tide of amazon. I far from a millionaire. But I am able to support myself. It is what it is. I do review study craft like grammar, scene structure, descriptions (A LOT OF STUDYING) and am in correspondence with other erotic authors who help each other.

Are you a porn fan who wants to write a book, or a writer who is interested in the market potential for your chosen "smut?" What is driving you, and what have you done with it in the past two years since you started this thread?

No, I am not a porn fan. Actually, I think of myself as a business man who produces media for an online market platform. I do it for the income. What is driving me? I like this idea that I can produce something with just my mind. It isn't the end goal, I would like to go higher in the food chain, like write fantasy adventure, but at the moment i'm skilling up and letting erotica support me. Maybe in 5 years? Time will tell. But I'm here to stay.

//edit added progress thread link

 

[Selfy]

The most successful fictional sex books on the market are not solely focused on the "smut" to borrow your word. They're well crafted story lines, with characters that people can fall "in love with" and the sex is a natural part of their story.

Why is this distinction important? I think if you set out to write a smut book, you're targeting the porn crowd and they're not the lions share of the market. They're a subset of the market, and certainly some will buy, but if the objective is to move from a book draft into scale, I think you're missing the lions share of the demographic.

I needed to return to this. Thank you, for the insight. There is nothing more that I want than to create a good book that will captivate and hook an audience not just in one book, but in multiple series, until I decide that it is time for the story to end and for them to stop handing me cash.

But this is actually quite hard to do. You need a mature level of writing skill, which I don't have. So I stick to simpler stuff. The stuff other best-sellers wouldn't be caught writing because it would be a waste of their skill and is just too controversial. Dumb even.

 

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