Electric Cars - Has a tipping point been reached?

[JordanK]

With the recent UN Climate Change report, the crazy share price of Tesla and just the general acceleration of electric car production. Has a tipping point been reached in wealthy countries where gas guzzling vehicles will quickly be phased out over the next 10 years as opposed to maybe a 20-30 year timeline that most of us would previously have predicted.

It might not be the most scientific method but I have a curious observation from the last few years. When I visited Scottsdale for the Fastlane summit in February 2020 there were Tesla's everywhere. This was an unusual sight for me as I had only ever seen one in my native country Ireland. Fast forward to August 2021 and my middle class not super wealthy city is awash with them. I see 10+ every single day now. Taxi's are all beginning to change over to electric VW's/Mercedes's.

I know many years ago there was stubborn reactions to threads here on the forums about electric vehicles as they were ugly, had low range and took ages to charge. A lot of these problems are being phased out and previous staunch critics have begun to be swayed. People who are on video saying they would never drive an electric car over their dead body are now warming up to it as the electric vehicles become genuinely impressive.

What will be the implications of this?

- Cheaper taxi fares
- Eventually phaseout of taxi drivers as the cars drive themselves
- Rural bars revival as a combination of cheaper taxi fares and self driving cars make it safe, convenient and financially easy to get home
- Death of some businesses that rely on commuters. i.e Gas stations or possibly a reworking of their present business model. A reduction in their numbers.
- Less reliance on the middle east for oil. In turn reducing the oil prices and turning a lot of wealthy countries back into their previous poor states.
- Reduction in influence of other countries that were previously big players because of oil i.e Russia
- Massive recycling solutions needed for the batteries of these electric cars once they reach end of their lifespan.

I know myself, for the last few years I didn't care too much about what was going on with the environment but the recent changes are pretty shocking. For the first time ever I am considering what drastic changes I personally can make to stop contributing to the problem. I also want to reward companies that act to solve this instead of financially incentivizing polluters by continuing to use their products. I would like to purchase an electric vehicle but I think it's still a year or two away from me financially. I could go out and buy one now but it would set my business back which wouldn't be helpful. I also think the price of those vehicles will continue to drop as they are mass produced.

 

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[MTF]

The tipping point might have been reached in certain countries and for certain people with certain needs. But IMO it's nowhere near universal adoption yet, or at least it isn't in most countries.

I'd like to own an electric car (ideally a nice 4x4 SUV like Rivian) but where I live there's still too little infrastructure for electric cars. I live in an apartment so I wouldn't be able to charge it.

The existing chargers in my city are, as far as I know, mostly of the slow charging variety. The better ones would be too inconvenient for me to use. It would make no sense to have an electric car only to be forced to park it a 10 minutes walk from where I live to charge it overnight.

Even if I moved to the countryside where I could charge it at home, I still wouldn't be able to go on longer trips because they would require detours to get to the fast chargers (and a lot of time wasted waiting for it to charge). There would always be range anxiety and limits as to where I could go (the more rural parts of the country would be dangerous to explore unless fully charged).

In my opinion, all the electric cars that have less than 400 km of range are ridiculous (not to mention the ones that have less than 200) because they can't really be used as anything else than a car for a city dweller.

I can drive my current car for at least 500-600 km on the highways (traveling super fast) or up to 700-800 km on the regular roads. If I had to stop 2-3 times during such a trip, and each time wait 30-45 minutes to charge the car (not counting possible detours to get to the closest supercharger), it would quickly get frustrating.

 

[Steeltip]

With the recent UN Climate Change report, the crazy share price of Tesla and just the general acceleration of electric car production. Has a tipping point been reached in wealthy countries where gas guzzling vehicles will quickly be phased out over the next 10 years as opposed to maybe a 20-30 year timeline that most of us would previously have predicted.

It might not be the most scientific method but I have a curious observation from the last few years. When I visited Scottsdale for the Fastlane summit in February 2020 there were Tesla's everywhere. This was an unusual sight for me as I had only ever seen one in my native country Ireland. Fast forward to August 2021 and my middle class not super wealthy city is awash with them. I see 10+ every single day now. Taxi's are all beginning to change over to electric VW's/Mercedes's.

I know many years ago there was stubborn reactions to threads here on the forums about electric vehicles as they were ugly, had low range and took ages to charge. A lot of these problems are being phased out and previous staunch critics have begun to be swayed. People who are on video saying they would never drive an electric car over their dead body are now warming up to it as the electric vehicles become genuinely impressive.

What will be the implications of this?

- Cheaper taxi fares
- Eventually phaseout of taxi drivers as the cars drive themselves
- Rural bars revival as a combination of cheaper taxi fares and self driving cars make it safe, convenient and financially easy to get home
- Death of some businesses that rely on commuters. i.e Gas stations or possibly a reworking of their present business model. A reduction in their numbers.
- Less reliance on the middle east for oil. In turn reducing the oil prices and turning a lot of wealthy countries back into their previous poor states.
- Reduction in influence of other countries that were previously big players because of oil i.e Russia
- Massive recycling solutions needed for the batteries of these electric cars once they reach end of their lifespan.

I know myself, for the last few years I didn't care too much about what was going on with the environment but the recent changes are pretty shocking. For the first time ever I am considering what drastic changes I personally can make to stop contributing to the problem. I also want to reward companies that act to solve this instead of financially incentivizing polluters by continuing to use their products. I would like to purchase an electric vehicle but I think it's still a year or two away from me financially. I could go out and buy one now but it would set my business back which wouldn't be helpful. I also think the price of those vehicles will continue to drop as they are mass produced.

Likely we are seeing the beginning of the end for gas vehicles. In my opinion, the tipping point has already happened and most people just are not aware of the technology that is coming out in the next few years (I work at a Ford dealer by the way). By the middle of the decade, we will most likely see an enormous surge in people buying electric vehicles...for a few reasons.

One: Solid-state batteries which were thought of as being at least a decade away have allegedly been successfully created by a Japanese company and Toyota will be coming out with the first car featuring the solid-state battery either next year or the year after.

The reason that this is really exciting is that you are going to see charge times be cut in half maybe even by 60%. Now even if that is not all the way true for the first iteration it won't matter because at a minimum it will be a 40% reduction and other brands are going to go F*cking apeshit replicating that technology. it's going to be far easier for people to stomach waiting 20 minutes for a full charge rather than 45. Also, it greatly extends the range of the vehicle so you should be able to get the same range as a gas vehicle.

Two: Trucks...Working at a ford dealer I if I had a dollar for everyone who asked me for a v8 or a diesel I would never have to work a day in my life again. There are no oil changes, no $100.00+ fill-up charges, the motor lasts at least 500,000 miles, there's more torque than any gas engine around, and anybody who thinks their hot shit with their 6.7 Hemi will be smoked coming out of a stoplight by a guy in an electric truck that does 0-60 in 3 seconds. Once those trucks have solid states it's game over you won't be able to sell gas trucks.

Already the hybrid 3.5 eco-boost engine smokes all the other motors we have in the F150's and we have seen good demand for them.

Three: Taxes, there are already tax incentives for electric vehicles and I would put my money on the fact that we will see more of them to come.

As far as infrastructure goes I am not too concerned. Stations are going to be popping up all over the place pretty soon here and with all the demand there is going to be a massive opportunity to get things started. I am going to put my money on capitalism for this one.

Four: The west is about to not be a viable place to live...No seriously...one or two more years is all the water can hold out at absolute best! I am originally from California and it's commonplace for my family to talk about who's house burned down or who else got really lucky and just missed the flames. Smoke and wildfires are synonymous with the summer months and lakes that I grew up going to are puddles. It even got so bad that the smoke reached new york. If it's not already in people's minds then it sure as hell will be soon when there is mass migration out of the west in search of water.

If there is one thing I have learned working in sales it's that buying a car is almost never a logical decision. People buy with their emotions and with things as they are the demand for electric vehicles will skyrocket (I hope)

 

[EngineerThis]

Not everyone thinks about it, but there is a variety of potential problems that are arising with electric vehicles. Battery issues, climate control, and in-car electronics are among the biggest ones. And don't forget about the environment. EV battery production can adversely impact the environment, such as a loss of biodiversity, air pollution and decreased freshwater supply.

Until they can figure out how not to have massive brownouts from household air condition use... I have no clue how they think the infrastructure can support charging all these electric cars... Let alone having extension cords on the sidewalks to everyone that parks their car in the street

 

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[ijack]

Hey everyone,

The topic of electric cars and whether a tipping point has been reached is an interesting one. In recent years, we've seen a significant increase in the adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) due to several factors.
Firstly, the advancements in technology have led to improvements in battery efficiency, range, and charging infrastructure. This has addressed some of the key concerns regarding EVs, such as limited range and charging time.
Secondly, the growing awareness and concern about climate change and environmental impact have motivated many people to switch to electric cars as a more sustainable transportation option.

What are your thoughts on this? Have you already made the switch to an electric vehicle or considering it? I personally drive Tesla Model S (currenly I've been loking for new mats in the Tesla Model 3 Accessories Shop https://www.teslaacessories.com/collections/model-3) Let's discuss our experiences and perspectives on the future of electric cars!

 

[Oso]

They will have to pry my dead foot off of the clutch before I swap to electric.

 

[Groobs]

I worked for a major automaker on an electric vehicle launch team, now I work in the auto parts world.

Electric vehicles are coming, but there are major issues in revenue for traditional automakers. Electric cars are expensive to make and without government assistance, its hard to make them affordable without owning more of the supply chain, but, these companies are working on that and will figure that out.

Where there is a large issue with the traditional automakers is these 3 key points:

• Service -
  • Electric cars have less service and thats a large portion of dealer/oem revenue
• Parts -
  • the parts industry for OEM's is HUGE!. They will still have body parts because people love crashing cars, but mechanical parts will take a huge hit. Electric cars have less parts, don't require oil changes, and they are moving away from disc brakes, huge loss for automakers
• Data -
  • Traditional automakers aren't acting like a data/tech company like Tesla is. Tesla is already selling their services to other automakers, they are selling car charging, AI tech, and more. Tesla is going to own this market more than ever. The company I worked for were saying Tesla is a joke from 2015-2018. In 2019, they said they are okay as an automaker, now they are chasing them like crazy and are getting left far behind. The executive management in 2021 mentioned they were seeking partnerships with Tesla and AI companies, they cannot produce this tech themselves.

 

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[James Klymus]

Until you can charge a EV in the same amount of time it takes to fill up a gas tank (a minute or 2), EVs will NOT be widely adopted as main vehicles.

The US government can only do so much to incentivize the purchase of EV’s, At the end of the day, Market demand will be the determining factor, As it always has been. They can’t force you (yet) to buy one.

Usually I am someone who is excited about new technology, and not usually pessimistic about it. But I believe people have been misled in terms of the environmental impact of EVs. The amount of fossil fuel and resources required to build an EV is more than a gasoline car. Not only that, But unless we develop a new technology for batteries, we won’t have enough lithium to make everything battery powered.

This doesn’t even include the human impact of battery manufacturing. Search cobalt mining in Africa if you are interested. Adults and children working in highly toxic mines with no PPE and for slave wages in Africa. And cobalt is used in every lithium ion battery, including laptops, phones and EVs.

 

[JordanK]

Until you can charge a EV in the same amount of time it takes to fill up a gas tank (a minute or 2), EVs will NOT be widely adopted as main vehicles.

The US government can only do so much to incentivize the purchase of EV’s, At the end of the day, Market demand will be the determining factor, As it always has been. They can’t force you (yet) to buy one.

Usually I am someone who is excited about new technology, and not usually pessimistic about it. But I believe people have been misled in terms of the environmental impact of EVs. The amount of fossil fuel and resources required to build an EV is more than a gasoline car. Not only that, But unless we develop a new technology for batteries, we won’t have enough lithium to make everything battery powered.

This doesn’t even include the human impact of battery manufacturing. Search cobalt mining in Africa if you are interested. Adults and children working in highly toxic mines with no PPE and for slave wages in Africa. And cobalt is used in every lithium ion battery, including laptops, phones and EVs.

If they standardize the batteries and make them removable then instead of a gas station you’ll stop in a battery swap station and change them out. One minute process ideally.

I saw a few videos trialing this instead of charging. It makes sense.

 

[Happyheart]

With the recent UN Climate Change report, the crazy share price of Tesla and just the general acceleration of electric car production. Has a tipping point been reached in wealthy countries where gas guzzling vehicles will quickly be phased out over the next 10 years as opposed to maybe a 20-30 year timeline that most of us would previously have predicted.

It might not be the most scientific method but I have a curious observation from the last few years. When I visited Scottsdale for the Fastlane summit in February 2020 there were Tesla's everywhere. This was an unusual sight for me as I had only ever seen one in my native country Ireland. Fast forward to August 2021 and my middle class not super wealthy city is awash with them. I see 10+ every single day now. Taxi's are all beginning to change over to electric VW's/Mercedes's.

I know many years ago there was stubborn reactions to threads here on the forums about electric vehicles as they were ugly, had low range and took ages to charge. A lot of these problems are being phased out and previous staunch critics have begun to be swayed. People who are on video saying they would never drive an electric car over their dead body are now warming up to it as the electric vehicles become genuinely impressive.

What will be the implications of this?

- Cheaper taxi fares
- Eventually phaseout of taxi drivers as the cars drive themselves
- Rural bars revival as a combination of cheaper taxi fares and self driving cars make it safe, convenient and financially easy to get home
- Death of some businesses that rely on commuters. i.e Gas stations or possibly a reworking of their present business model. A reduction in their numbers.
- Less reliance on the middle east for oil. In turn reducing the oil prices and turning a lot of wealthy countries back into their previous poor states.
- Reduction in influence of other countries that were previously big players because of oil i.e Russia
- Massive recycling solutions needed for the batteries of these electric cars once they reach end of their lifespan.

I know myself, for the last few years I didn't care too much about what was going on with the environment but the recent changes are pretty shocking. For the first time ever I am considering what drastic changes I personally can make to stop contributing to the problem. I also want to reward companies that act to solve this instead of financially incentivizing polluters by continuing to use their products. I would like to purchase an electric vehicle but I think it's still a year or two away from me financially. I could go out and buy one now but it would set my business back which wouldn't be helpful. I also think the price of those vehicles will continue to drop as they are mass produced.

Because of the low sustainability of the batteries in production and life span, the weight and the where the energy for the electric cars comes from, electric cars aren't exactly a plus for either the environment or for saving CO2.

In Germany they have the delusional idea to forbid combustion vehicles from 2035 onward, while at the same time shutting off nuclear AND coal plants (they now seem to shuffle back a bit on the nuclear front). There is no way the electricity grid even as it is, is going to sustain the amount of EVs needed to replace the cars that are driving around now. This will just mean, that only the upper class will be able to afford individual mobility and that the peasants may use public transport, because why should the lowly be able to take their family on vacation to Italy? It is very cynical in my opinion.

Also, there are unsolved problems, that can be a great opportunity for a fastlaner. I drive about 1000 kilometres at 100 mph with my mercedes before I have to fill up the tank. The same road trip would take at least 3 stops with an EV. EVs are cool and I like the technology, but not quite there yet. EVs may or may not be the future, but in many countries they are heavily subsidized and that is one reason why you see them a lot - and let's not forget - people also buy them to impress Mary-Jo and Kevin next door who will see what a fine environmentally conscious and exemplary person you are.

 

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[WJK]

With the recent UN Climate Change report, the crazy share price of Tesla and just the general acceleration of electric car production. Has a tipping point been reached in wealthy countries where gas guzzling vehicles will quickly be phased out over the next 10 years as opposed to maybe a 20-30 year timeline that most of us would previously have predicted.

It might not be the most scientific method but I have a curious observation from the last few years. When I visited Scottsdale for the Fastlane summit in February 2020 there were Tesla's everywhere. This was an unusual sight for me as I had only ever seen one in my native country Ireland. Fast forward to August 2021 and my middle class not super wealthy city is awash with them. I see 10+ every single day now. Taxi's are all beginning to change over to electric VW's/Mercedes's.

I know many years ago there was stubborn reactions to threads here on the forums about electric vehicles as they were ugly, had low range and took ages to charge. A lot of these problems are being phased out and previous staunch critics have begun to be swayed. People who are on video saying they would never drive an electric car over their dead body are now warming up to it as the electric vehicles become genuinely impressive.

What will be the implications of this?

- Cheaper taxi fares
- Eventually phaseout of taxi drivers as the cars drive themselves
- Rural bars revival as a combination of cheaper taxi fares and self driving cars make it safe, convenient and financially easy to get home
- Death of some businesses that rely on commuters. i.e Gas stations or possibly a reworking of their present business model. A reduction in their numbers.
- Less reliance on the middle east for oil. In turn reducing the oil prices and turning a lot of wealthy countries back into their previous poor states.
- Reduction in influence of other countries that were previously big players because of oil i.e Russia
- Massive recycling solutions needed for the batteries of these electric cars once they reach end of their lifespan.

I know myself, for the last few years I didn't care too much about what was going on with the environment but the recent changes are pretty shocking. For the first time ever I am considering what drastic changes I personally can make to stop contributing to the problem. I also want to reward companies that act to solve this instead of financially incentivizing polluters by continuing to use their products. I would like to purchase an electric vehicle but I think it's still a year or two away from me financially. I could go out and buy one now but it would set my business back which wouldn't be helpful. I also think the price of those vehicles will continue to drop as they are mass produced.

They simply don't work in our climate. Cold kills batteries.

 

[JordanK]

If you look at how the technology has evolved over the last 10 years it'll be interesting to see where it goes from here.

For example, we roughly know how far a combustion engine will go on a full tank of fuel. Billions are spent on minimal efficiency gains. At the moment with battery technology the leaps and gains in range each year are amazing. Who is to say that in 10 years time we won't have batteries than can support driving for 2000km. Or can be recharged or switched out amazingly fast.

The entire fossil fuel supply chain that supports current vehicles wasn't built out overnight. The grid will have to be funded massively to expand it but there are other opportunities. Solar power is also achieving massive efficiency gains and reductions in costs. Put this on your house and you can charge your vehicle for free. Again, the technology isn't perfect but in this space even go back 5 years and the gains are immense!

I'm not sure why a lot of people are so against electric cars from a WEF/New World Order perspective. Or the "they'll turn your car off argument". Literally one man in Moscow decided to turn off some pipelines and all of us in Europe were paying double the cost in fuel. If OPEC decided to boycott the west for whatever reason then there would be empty petrol/gas stations within days and none of us would be going anywhere.

In Ireland where we import all of our fuels from abroad it makes sense that we would want to be energy independent by changing to wind/solar and backup fossil fuels for the grid powering an electric transport fleet. Maybe in some other countries like the US the calculus is a bit different as they are an energy exporter.

 

[EngineerThis]

If you look at how the technology has evolved over the last 10 years it'll be interesting to see where it goes from here.

For example, we roughly know how far a combustion engine will go on a full tank of fuel. Billions are spent on minimal efficiency gains. At the moment with battery technology the leaps and gains in range each year are amazing. Who is to say that in 10 years time we won't have batteries than can support driving for 2000km. Or can be recharged or switched out amazingly fast.

The entire fossil fuel supply chain that supports current vehicles wasn't built out overnight. The grid will have to be funded massively to expand it but there are other opportunities. Solar power is also achieving massive efficiency gains and reductions in costs. Put this on your house and you can charge your vehicle for free. Again, the technology isn't perfect but in this space even go back 5 years and the gains are immense!

I'm not sure why a lot of people are so against electric cars from a WEF/New World Order perspective. Or the "they'll turn your car off argument". Literally one man in Moscow decided to turn off some pipelines and all of us in Europe were paying double the cost in fuel. If OPEC decided to boycott the west for whatever reason then there would be empty petrol/gas stations within days and none of us would be going anywhere.

In Ireland where we import all of our fuels from abroad it makes sense that we would want to be energy independent by changing to wind/solar and backup fossil fuels for the grid powering an electric transport fleet. Maybe in some other countries like the US the calculus is a bit different as they are an energy exporter.

Electric cars pre-dated ICE cars. All the original taxi cabs in New York were electric… why did they go away? Because the Internal combustion engine surpassed the battery… and has continued to do so. Upgrading the grid on that massive of a scale is also a joke… what we really need is cars with a little nuclear reactor. Ford had it right back in the 60’s with the Nucleon Concept… No emissions, unlimited fuel and range, minimal moving parts.

Frankly the world would be a very different place if Nixon’s plan went forward by having 1000+ Reactors across the US to make us energy independent.

 

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[EngineerThis]

If you look at how the technology has evolved over the last 10 years it'll be interesting to see where it goes from here.

For example, we roughly know how far a combustion engine will go on a full tank of fuel. Billions are spent on minimal efficiency gains. At the moment with battery technology the leaps and gains in range each year are amazing. Who is to say that in 10 years time we won't have batteries than can support driving for 2000km. Or can be recharged or switched out amazingly fast.

The entire fossil fuel supply chain that supports current vehicles wasn't built out overnight. The grid will have to be funded massively to expand it but there are other opportunities. Solar power is also achieving massive efficiency gains and reductions in costs. Put this on your house and you can charge your vehicle for free. Again, the technology isn't perfect but in this space even go back 5 years and the gains are immense!

I'm not sure why a lot of people are so against electric cars from a WEF/New World Order perspective. Or the "they'll turn your car off argument". Literally one man in Moscow decided to turn off some pipelines and all of us in Europe were paying double the cost in fuel. If OPEC decided to boycott the west for whatever reason then there would be empty petrol/gas stations within days and none of us would be going anywhere.

In Ireland where we import all of our fuels from abroad it makes sense that we would want to be energy independent by changing to wind/solar and backup fossil fuels for the grid powering an electric transport fleet. Maybe in some other countries like the US the calculus is a bit different as they are an energy exporter.

I think the crux is Self driving/dystopian/You will not “own” a car anymore… goes hand in hand with Electric vehicles. And most people lump those fears together. I do absolutely agree, we are no where near energy independence. Even with fuel burning cars as you pointed out.

 

[Fox]

I'm not sure why a lot of people are so against electric cars from a WEF/New World Order perspective.

When you go to fuel a petroleum car, every pump is the same. All you need is any place with gas.
If a whole country runs out of gas - it runs out of gas together.

If there is a supply issue, it across the board for everyone.
I have never seen a pump with two different prices for one customer versus another.

If you have an electric car though it is like having a cell phone plan. You on an individual basis can be shut off.
Each electric car has its own charger ID and is easily trackable as a device. You can be tracked and listened to.

Huge difference.

I don't want my car not turning on in 10 years cause I didn't let my kid go to drag book reading hour.

---

Rushing something like this is dumb.
Gas cars have been around over 100 years - the whole system is finally tuned and incredibly efficient.

We didn't ban faxes or radios when the internet rolled out.
You let them compete freely, and give the newer tech time to outperform.

To throw all 100 years of gas technology out the window, to rush a new tech on to everyone is a BS policy.
If they want more electric cars - then make them better and let the market choose.

Think of the environmental and real cost of:
- removing millions of cars
- creating million more ones
- mining all that new material
- deposing of all the older tech
- the cost of this directly / indirectly to everyone

"Tax break", "grant", "free" < this is the sound of the government spending your taxes and printing away your savings. A good signal with anything is if the WEF is pushing it - it is probably not a good thing.

---

Also - keep in mind it isn't just your car that runs on gasoline.
So does your tractor, airplane, lawn mover, chainsaw, dumper truck, boat, industrial digger.

Going "green" sounds cool, but you have massive supply chain and security issues.

Unless you have a lithium mine out the back of your house, you are going to be replying a few interesting countries that are a long way away.

 

[YanC]

Think of the environmental and real cost of:
- removing millions of cars
- creating million more ones
- mining all that new material
- deposing of all the older tech
- the cost of this directly / indirectly to everyone

And once you've been through all of this, depending on the energy mix of your country, your electric car is still likely to be powered out of gas or coal plants. Basically all you achieved is moving the combustion from thousands of small engines to a single big one, but it feels better as it's happening far away from you and you can sleep soundly at night thinking you saved the world.

 

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[JordanK]

When you go to fuel a petroleum car, every pump is the same. All you need is any place with gas.
If a whole country runs out of gas - it runs out of gas together.

If there is a supply issue, it across the board for everyone.
I have never seen a pump with two different prices for one customer versus another.

If you have an electric car though it is like having a cell phone plan. You on an individual basis can be shut off.
Each electric car has its own charger ID and is easily trackable as a device. You can be tracked and listened to.

Huge difference.

I don't want my car not turning on in 10 years cause I didn't let my kid go to drag book reading hour.

In the modern world if you have a phone you can be tracked at basically all times, have your devices content read, have your calls eavesdropped on or have your device act as a listening device. We all decide that the trade off is worth it and keep our phones around us all the time.

Your Paypal account or Bank Account could be shut down right now for having the wrong opinion and it would cripple you and your business. For example, banks don't allow transfers to Hustlers University affiliated accounts and Crypto Exchanges don't allow transfers to addresses linked to the Tate's.

The government knows where you live and could shut off electricity, water, internet to your house. They could suspend your driving license. You could counteract this by having solar panels, catching and processing rainwater and using Starlink. In the future different technologies will allow you to manipulate your own vehicle or provide you alternatives to government charging points.

We saw a play book during the pandemic. They could literally shut down grocery stores, require rations cards, vax cards or whatever to enter. Within a week you'd be starving as none of us grow our own food. The government already has all the tools in place to do whatever it wants. If anything, I think having electric cars removes more government than it invites in. For example, look at Sri Lanka... government mismanagement of foreign exchange reserves and the country couldn't afford to import fuel and everyone was screwed. If this happened in Ireland in 10-20 years you just boot up the solar panels and charge your vehicle.

Rushing something like this is dumb.
Gas cars have been around over 100 years - the whole system is finally tuned and incredibly efficient.

We didn't ban faxes or radios when the internet rolled out.
You let them compete freely, and give the newer tech time to outperform.

To throw all 100 years of gas technology out the window, to rush a new tech on to everyone is a BS policy.
If they want more electric cars - then make them better and let the market choose.

Think of the environmental and real cost of:
- removing millions of cars
- creating million more ones
- mining all that new material
- deposing of all the older tech
- the cost of this directly / indirectly to everyone

"Tax break", "grant", "free" < this is the sound of the government spending your taxes and printing away your savings. A good signal with anything is if the WEF is pushing it - it is probably not a good thing.

---

Also - keep in mind it isn't just your car that runs on gasoline.
So does your tractor, airplane, lawn mover, chainsaw, dumper truck, boat, industrial digger.

Going "green" sounds cool, but you have massive supply chain and security issues.

Unless you have a lithium mine out the back of your house, you are going to be replying a few interesting countries that are a long way away.

The previous posted point by another user noted that combustion engines will be outlawed from 2035 in Germany. In my opinion by 2030 none of the main car manufacturers will be making them anyways so this law is just some virtue signaling. There was no incentive for manufactures to change to electric until Tesla started capturing major market share. Now everyone is scrambling to catch up. The market is already moving. The jump in fuel prices when the Russia-Ukraine conflict started only served to turbocharge this movement. Companies can't even keep up with the demand and have 1-2 year waiting lists for purchases of some vehicles.

Most normal cars hit end of life between 15-20 years. We're probably only about 3 years into the transition to Electric Cars. It'll be a while yet before they take over completely. If you want to study a market that's ahead of the curve Norway is a good example as 80% of their newly bought vehicles are electric. The highest in the world.

Some general improvements that'll help our cities are that fact that they have no tailpipe emissions. For example, I was in Madrid,Spain and outside the airport at the taxi rank it was lovely clean air... almost completely silent too as they don't make anywhere near as much noise as conventional cars. This improved the local environment. The center of the city actually bans conventional vehicles from even entering it. Similar to London and Paris which now have much better air quality. I know that air quality can be problematic at times in cities in Poland too.

The mining is one area that electric cars really do fall down on. It'll be interesting to see if they manage to generate a substantial recycling industry for battery components. As of now we don't know how the waste will be treated as none of the electric vehicles have reached end of life yet. People who bash electric cars on this point don't take into account that extracting fuel is just as damaging to the environment. They have massive rigs in the sea, on land extracting it from the earth. The fuel then also needs to be transported around the world in ships and can potentially spill causing great harm to the oceans also.

@Fox Good discussion none the less. I know we disagree on a few points but it'll be fascinating to see how it all plays out over the next decade.

@YanC
"In 2020 wind turbines generated 36.3% of Ireland's electrical demand, one of the highest wind power penetrations in the world"

"The government has commited to producing 80 per cent of Ireland’s electricity through renewables by 2030"

 

[MitchC]

Australia shut down coal plants and now due to low wind and solar energy production, has had to turn on diesel generators.

Literally using diesel to generate this electric car fuel lol.

What happened to the coal we stopped burning? Sent to China so they can have cheap electricity

Who sold us the solar panels?

Where are we buying the diesel?