The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success
  • Self-Promotion Saturday Now Live!

    Have something to sell? Want to promote your design service or a YouTube channel? SELL-ME SATURDAY is your opportunity to self-promote anything within the sphere of entrepreneurship on one thread... and at no cost. Go There
    Note: Indiscriminate SEO backlinking to questionable material is not allowed.
  • Join 50,000+ entrepreneurs who are earning their freedom and living their dream.

    "Fastlane" is an entrepreneur discussion forum based on The C.E.N.T.S Framework outlined in the two best-selling books by MJ DeMarco (The Millionaire Fastlane and UNSCRIPTED®). From multimillionaires to digital nomads to side hustlers who are grinding a job, the Fastlane Forum features real entrepreneurs creating real businesses with one goal in mind: Freedom— both financial and temporal.

    Download (Unscripted) Download (Millionaire Fastlane) Register
    Registering for the forum removes this block.

OFF-TOPIC Does At WIll employment even mean anything?

Remove ads while supporting the Unscripted philosophy...become an INSIDER.

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
so i worked 33k job for 2.5 weeks. My friend hooked me up with interview for much higher paying job this morning. I did interview and during lunch i get call that i got the job, 50k salary, starting 2 weeks from now.

I tell HR dude at the end of day that in 2 weeks i gotta be out, i can stay and help with work for 2 weeks at most.
One of the companys partners is there and giving me a death glare.
HR dude says i must give 30 day notice according to contract.
im like what... oh shit so i say ill ask regarding that.

But now that im home i ask some people for advice, they're like f*ck that, take the job after 2 weeks. At most they'll just not pay my check or something.

I read the contract and it said At Will employment which i thought meant i can leave any moment for any reason, they can fire me any moment for any reason.

What's the deal here?
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Kruiser

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2017
280
845
315
Arizona
so i worked 33k job for 2.5 weeks. My friend hooked me up with interview for much higher paying job this morning. I did interview and during lunch i get call that i got the job, 50k salary, starting 2 weeks from now.

I tell HR dude at the end of day that in 2 weeks i gotta be out, i can stay and help with work for 2 weeks at most.
One of the companys partners is there and giving me a death glare.
HR dude says i must give 30 day notice according to contract.
im like what... oh sh*t so i say ill ask regarding that.

But now that im home i ask some people for advice, they're like f*ck that, take the job after 2 weeks. At most they'll just not pay my check or something.

I read the contract and it said At Will employment which i thought meant i can leave any moment for any reason, they can fire me any moment for any reason.

What's the deal here?
It seems really unlikely that you have a genuine employment contract for 33k/year job. What does the document you are referring to actually say regarding your notice obligations? Did you sign it?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

OlivierMo

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Feb 12, 2018
123
207
156
Idaho
so i worked 33k job for 2.5 weeks. My friend hooked me up with interview for much higher paying job this morning. I did interview and during lunch i get call that i got the job, 50k salary, starting 2 weeks from now.

I tell HR dude at the end of day that in 2 weeks i gotta be out, i can stay and help with work for 2 weeks at most.
One of the companys partners is there and giving me a death glare.
HR dude says i must give 30 day notice according to contract.
im like what... oh sh*t so i say ill ask regarding that.

But now that im home i ask some people for advice, they're like f*ck that, take the job after 2 weeks. At most they'll just not pay my check or something.

I read the contract and it said At Will employment which i thought meant i can leave any moment for any reason, they can fire me any moment for any reason.

What's the deal here?
I don't think at will and a notice period are mutually exclusive. One could have a contract with a notice period requirement. If you don't have any you can even quit right away technically.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
so the employment contract says nothing regarding 30 days, it says

Termination without cause. Either party may terminate this Agreement without
cause. XXX may request that the Employee cease their employment any time before the effective date of
termination.

Only the offer letter states As an
at-will employee, you will be free to terminate your employment with XXX at any
time, with or without cause, advance notice of 30 days is mandatory.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
Here is more from the letter:

In accepting our offer of employment, you understand that your employment will be
on an at-will basis, and that neither you nor any XXX representative have entered
into a contract regarding the terms or the duration of your employment. As an
at-will employee, you will be free to terminate your employment with XXX at any
time, with or without cause, advance notice of 30 days is mandatory. Likewise, XXX
will have the right to reassign you, to change your compensation, or to terminate
your employment at any time, for any reason, with or without notice.


I live in new york state, an At Will state.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
I think they're being unethical, you can lose a job opportunity in 30 days.

My friend says i should just immediately resign, and focus on the new job.
The worst they can do is not pay me or something.

I feel bad about the whole situation, but i can't pass up the 50k, its a huge increase.
 

Kruiser

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2017
280
845
315
Arizona
Here is more from the letter:

In accepting our offer of employment, you understand that your employment will be
on an at-will basis, and that neither you nor any XXX representative have entered
into a contract regarding the terms or the duration of your employment. As an
at-will employee, you will be free to terminate your employment with XXX at any
time, with or without cause, advance notice of 30 days is mandatory. Likewise, XXX
will have the right to reassign you, to change your compensation, or to terminate
your employment at any time, for any reason, with or without notice.


I live in new york state, an At Will state.
PM me with your number if you want to get on a call and talk it through. I have a bunch of employment law experience, though I never practiced law in NY.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
PM me with your number if you want to get on a call and talk it through. I have a bunch of employment law experience, though I never practiced law in NY.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
its cool man, i think ill just resign now, cause even if i say 2 weeks, they'll give me shit for 2 weeks. I can't work in that kind of environment.
 

WaterWerks

Contributor
Mar 25, 2018
33
50
99
32
NYC
if you have the 50k job in the bag for sure, then just quit this one. i don't think they can keep your pay by law, if they do then figure it out and get the labor dept involved. NYC employers don't want any parts of the labor dept.

don't lose sleep over it.
 

Vigilante

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 31, 2011
10,861
63,473
4,655
Gulf Coast
The way that is written they could fire you at any time for any reason but if you want to quit you have to give them 30 days notice. Most likely legally untenable.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
Thanks guys, and yea it seemed unfair that they could fire me without notice, but i can't leave without notice.

I sent an email to HR:

Hello XXX

I realize now that I can only actually work 1 more week.
I can't do anything about this situation.
1 week is the best i can do.
If you want you can fire me now, I understand.
 

Kruiser

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2017
280
845
315
Arizona
The way that is written they could fire you at any time for any reason but if you want to quit you have to give them 30 days notice. Most likely legally untenable.
Yep. But management side employment attorneys sometimes put things in docs knowing full well that they aren't enforceable, but also knowing that employees will often think they are enforceable.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

minivanman

Platinum Contributor
Speedway Pass
Mar 16, 2017
1,728
4,383
999
50
DFW
What are they going to do..... fire you? lmao

And now that you have the stepping stone of $50k, you need to move up another $25k within 12-18 months. And so-on and so-on. What is your long term plan to be making some real money?

This kind of reminds me of back when I worked for someone sometimes they would say they were going to write me up. After the first couple of times they figured out that did not work with me because here was the conversations..... I'm going to write you up....... so let me ask you a question, after 5 write ups do I get a raise?...... looking at me strange they would always say, NO!..... then I'd say, then why would I care if you write me up? And remember, if you are going too fire me, call me before I come to work so I can go back to sleep because if you wait until the end of the day it will not be a good scene. I remember one guy told me he was going to fire me at 10:54am and I told him that I would bet his pay check against mine that I'd have another job before 11am. :)
 

lewj24

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 12, 2016
451
1,551
478
25
St. Louis, MO
What are they going to do..... fire you? lmao

And now that you have the stepping stone of $50k, you need to move up another $25k within 12-18 months. And so-on and so-on. What is your long term plan to be making some real money?

This kind of reminds me of back when I worked for someone sometimes they would say they were going to write me up. After the first couple of times they figured out that did not work with me because here was the conversations..... I'm going to write you up....... so let me ask you a question, after 5 write ups do I get a raise?...... looking at me strange they would always say, NO!..... then I'd say, then why would I care if you write me up? And remember, if you are going too fire me, call me before I come to work so I can go back to sleep because if you wait until the end of the day it will not be a good scene. I remember one guy told me he was going to fire me at 10:54am and I told him that I would bet his pay check against mine that I'd have another job before 11am. :)
I don't know if you're a genius or if you're insane.. but you're definitely funny lol.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
What are they going to do..... fire you? lmao

And now that you have the stepping stone of $50k, you need to move up another $25k within 12-18 months. And so-on and so-on. What is your long term plan to be making some real money?

This kind of reminds me of back when I worked for someone sometimes they would say they were going to write me up. After the first couple of times they figured out that did not work with me because here was the conversations..... I'm going to write you up....... so let me ask you a question, after 5 write ups do I get a raise?...... looking at me strange they would always say, NO!..... then I'd say, then why would I care if you write me up? And remember, if you are going too fire me, call me before I come to work so I can go back to sleep because if you wait until the end of the day it will not be a good scene. I remember one guy told me he was going to fire me at 10:54am and I told him that I would bet his pay check against mine that I'd have another job before 11am. :)
i work on my fastlane app idea in my free time, my best attempt yet for sure.
I just figure if i work full time, i might as well get the most money i can.
 

404profound

Platinum Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 27, 2017
1,361
2,814
667
Desert of Desertion
so i worked 33k job for 2.5 weeks. My friend hooked me up with interview for much higher paying job this morning. I did interview and during lunch i get call that i got the job, 50k salary, starting 2 weeks from now.

I tell HR dude at the end of day that in 2 weeks i gotta be out, i can stay and help with work for 2 weeks at most.
One of the companys partners is there and giving me a death glare.
HR dude says i must give 30 day notice according to contract.
im like what... oh sh*t so i say ill ask regarding that.

But now that im home i ask some people for advice, they're like f*ck that, take the job after 2 weeks. At most they'll just not pay my check or something.

I read the contract and it said At Will employment which i thought meant i can leave any moment for any reason, they can fire me any moment for any reason.

What's the deal here?
reread the contract. If there is no explicit mention for a minimum notice requirement, the standard is two weeks. They are probably bullshitting.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
reread the contract. If there is no explicit mention for a minimum notice requirement, the standard is two weeks. They are probably bullshitting.
it does say in the offer letter about the 30 days. i admittedly skimmed over it, its only 16 an hour anyway, didn't expect anything crazy...
the employee contract however says nothing regarding 30 days.



anyways didn't get a reply to email lol, ill go in tomorrow and brace myself.

i WILL report back.
if i dont call the pollliceeeee LOL
 

Mr.Brandtastic

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Sep 27, 2017
129
390
190
Parents' House
God I've quit so many jobs without giving any notice at all. It really doesn't matter. I mean just call them and say, "I quit" and then never show up. Now if they have some iron-tight contract I guess you would have to. But are they really going to come after you? Pretty doubtful.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Waspy

Float like a butterfly
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Dec 6, 2016
480
2,172
543
26
U.K.
What do you think happens when you don’t show up on Monday?

I’ll give you a hint...

It’s nothing.
 

TKDTyler

The Tea Guy
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Aug 25, 2014
451
1,515
479
29
For reference, I live in the Bay Area, CA. All salaried Engineering jobs out here are considered "At-Will employment" (Google, Facebook, silicon/IC, startups, etc).

There is nothing inherently bad with at-will employment - the easy way to put it is that

A. If you are not performing up to the expectations of the job, you'll be let go and they will find somebody better.
B. If the company/economy starts to go under, they do not need to offer any type of compensation or severance package or reason to let people go at any time. It gives the company flexibility to scale up and down with the business.

But if you are good at what you do and are an asset to the company, it shouldn't really matter.

i just realize i can't give a 2 weeks notice, i start week after next.
Call in sick.

2 weeks in a row. :cool:
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
came in today(friday), boss and HR dude weren't there.

Production manager was there, haven't spoken with him yet.
I tell him next week is my last week cause i can't lose my opportunity.
He says he appreciates that i will stay the last week to help with the workload, and said that if he was in my position, he'd take the job too lol. He even said he knows i'm not obligated to stay if i didn't want to.

Guess we'll see what happens monday when boss gets back, probably gonna glare at me the whole day?
 

LeoistheSun

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Oct 3, 2017
427
636
275
Honolulu
PM me with your number if you want to get on a call and talk it through. I have a bunch of employment law experience, though I never practiced law in NY.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Your profile says "West Coast", so I am going to assume California?

It seems in Cali that all employment in Cali is "at will" and employers can fire your for anything. Am I wrong?
 

Kruiser

Silver Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2017
280
845
315
Arizona
Your profile says "West Coast", so I am going to assume California?

It seems in Cali that all employment in Cali is "at will" and employers can fire your for anything. Am I wrong?
I'm an Oregon lawyer and never practiced in California. Unless one has an employment contract (very rare - usually only senior execs have them) or is a member of a union, employment is generally at will. But there are tons of exceptions to at will for protected classes and protected activities. If there is no employment contract or union contract, an employer can fire an employee for any reason as long as it is not an illegal reason.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

GoGetter24

Gold Contributor
Speedway Pass
Oct 8, 2017
571
1,146
365
Various
What do you think happens when you don’t show up on Monday?

I’ll give you a hint...

It’s nothing.
^ This, OP.

People have got into the habit of thinking their employer owns them. Pretty weak attitude, and ultimately one that at-will employment helps defend against: the easier it is to terminate a job, the easier it is to get a new one (employer's risk is lower).

Employers have got into the habit of thinking they own people too. I knew one guy who left a job to start a company competing in the same field, after he ended up basically running the show and his boss was getting all the profits. His old boss then hiss and spat told him that he can't do that. The guy responded something along the lines of 'observe'.
 

Thoelt53

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 8, 2016
609
1,812
555
Boston, MA
came in today(friday), boss and HR dude weren't there.

Production manager was there, haven't spoken with him yet.
I tell him next week is my last week cause i can't lose my opportunity.
He says he appreciates that i will stay the last week to help with the workload, and said that if he was in my position, he'd take the job too lol. He even said he knows i'm not obligated to stay if i didn't want to.

Guess we'll see what happens monday when boss gets back, probably gonna glare at me the whole day?
I don't think you have anything to worry about here.

In my experience all of my previous employers have been totally cool about me leaving. So long as you're upfront about it, what are they going to say?

Your bosses are people too, and given the same scenario they would be doing exactly the same. Occasionally you'll encounter the ego-maniac narcissistic dickhead, but in that case, f*ck 'em.

The legal team has much more pressing shit to deal with than the $33k/yr employee who quit with little notice.
 

eliquid

( Jason Brown )
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
May 29, 2013
1,568
7,781
1,716
Louisville - Kentucky
I preach to my wife and kids that this is ONE of the reasons I won't work a normal job again. But if I did, I would still do things my way, not theirs.

Too many times I have been asked to give 2 weeks, 4 weeks, etc. "You need to give us time to find and train someone else" line.

But then when you get fired or laid off ( I have been multiple times ), you're out the door that day. Not even able to go to your desk to collect your stuff while you are in HR being told you are getting let go because of someone else's mistake.

Fire me ( or lay me off ) without notice, but you want me to give notice when I'm ready to leave. I don't think so...

I should give them the line, " I need time to find another job". Yeah, I don't see that working out.

Employers wonder why people quit on them all the time last minute. It isn't always because, "this generation that", it's how they have treated workers the last several decades and most of them ( like me ) are shit tired of it.

I gotta stop right there. I could go on all day about this crap.
 
OP
OP
luniac

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,775
2,745
677
30
brooklyn
well its all good i think, haven't seen my boss yet, but HR dude emailed me back and said in person:

Thank you. We'd like you to remain with xxx through your notice period. Please confirm your last day.

Looks like the 30 day clause has disappeared into thin air lol

this friday is my last day, next monday start my 50k position. meanwhile its 11:39 PM, got an hour or 2 to work on my fastlane app, life is good.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Sponsored Offers

  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Lex DeVille's - Advanced Freelance Udemy Courses!
Just bought 5 of your Upwork courses. Thanks for making valuable content Lex!
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Kill Bigger Incubator
I've just concluded my program with Kyle. The incubator gave me what I wanted. Now, working on a...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Fox's Web Design Guide: Earn $100K this year (Yes, 2020!) and Go Fastlane
Thanks for the detailed response. I see it similar, in the beginning, you have only a small...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Grow Your Business With a Book (An Unorthodox Marketing Strategy That Built One of the Largest...
Thanks for your offer to look at my book. Here's the link to the squeeze page Buy The Prosperous...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
The day I can afford to pay 800 a month to have someone keep me accountable is the day I've won...



Forum Sponsor

sponsor

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom