Death and taxes!!

[petethepeddler]

Now that I've got your attention. I'd like to get some feedback on what people think of income tax preparers.

What do they do right?
What do they do wrong?
What makes you go to one place over another?
What do you think of their pricing?
How does their marketing affect your decisions as to who to go to?
What makes your "guy" the best?
What do you dislike the most about that "guy"?
What would make you switch tax places?
What do you think is the single most important benefit to using a tax preparer over the alternatives (online, paper and pen, software, etc.)?

I'm trying to get a feel from the consumer side and find out what people would like to see in a tax place.

Thanks in advance!

 

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[TaxGuy]

Great post Pete! I'll throw in my .02 as a fellow preparer, but I really hope that we can get some feedback from fellow Fastlaners who are NOT in the business so they can help us help them

Now that I've got your attention. I'd like to get some feedback on what people think of income tax preparers.

What do they do right?

A good tax preparer does more than just the return, in addition to having a thorough interview, a good tax preparer/consult is available for tax planning and advice on how certain investments will affect your taxes. This IMO is what separates the pros from the wannabes

What do they do wrong?

Basically any of the "drive-through" tax offices where it's in and out in 30 minutes OR the professional CPA firm who will meet with you to get your business and then is completely unavailable for follow-up unless you pay for their time, much like an attorney. Our goal is to have knowledgeable associates at all levels so that even if our CPA(my dad) is not available, you can still get competent advice from an associate such as myself.

What makes you go to one place over another?

For the most part it'll be price. Remember Diane Kennedy's motto "Sell to the masses, live with the classes." If you aim for Sidewalkers and Slowlaners as your clientele, you can become wealthy, but you'll usually be competing on price. For Fastlaners, I'd go out on a limb that value and accessibility are more important than price, i.e. if they pay $800 for their taxes, but know that they can consult with the professional at any time to get valuable advice on saving $1000's in taxes on a certain investment.

What do you think of their pricing?

The store-front pricing models are a joke! Most charge by the form and it sickens me when someone says "I'll just go to HRB, they only charge $69 and they know what they're doing."

What a crock! First off, they charge by the form, so if you have anything more than a single W2 and have any dependents, be prepared to pay more. In addition, my dad has seen a lot of horror stories where someone went in and paid $400+ for their services only to end up paying a lot more in taxes(or getting less in refunds) than they would've if they went to my dad, who also would've only charged $200-300 for the SAME service!

In addition, the above mention of how most CPA firms act like law firms where they charge you by the hour and the name on the door isn't necessarily who you work with and even worse, you might think you're working with them only to find that they had interns do the preparations and they only signed off without even double-checking their work!

IMO, a per-form fee is fair, but should have its limits.

How does their marketing affect your decisions as to who to go to?

Storefronts- see above on the "$69 Guarantee" or my favorite the "No Audit" Guarantee, both of which are bait and switch b.s. to get unsuspecting customers

Pros- the more important you look, the more likely you'll get the client, i.e. more letters after your name or a swanky down-town office

I'd like to believe that Fastlaners are smarter than that and do as MJ points out in Ch. 41 of the book, titled "Throw Hijackers To The Curb" where you have to go off of referrals and do your homework instead of just being swayed by catchy ads, flashy offices or referrals from Slowlaners.

What makes your "guy" the best?

Value, Accessibility, Price- all in that order, with "Value" being defined as "How much your advice saves me on taxes", thankfully this can be measured by comparing past years returns or having a "second look" done, kind of like what HRB advertises, only this should be done by a professional and not some part-time preparer!

What do you dislike the most about that "guy"?

Same as above- if they're not getting you the best savings, not giving you the time of day and are charging you an arm and a leg they are terrible preparers!

What would make you switch tax places?

This is a complicated issue, since most people only see their tax guy once a year, most cases there won't be loyalty, however, you also run into those who have a family member or friend do it for free and never even know if another preparer would be able to give you a better service that costs you a little bit in preparation fees but SAVES you a ton in taxes. You also run into this with those who have a pro that they "trust", but never really hold accountable.

Long story short- offer free or low-price "second look" reviews to prove your worth until you've gotten the reputation as being the best and/or have enough of a client base built up.

What do you think is the single most important benefit to using a tax preparer over the alternatives (online, paper and pen, software, etc.)?

If you have an EA sign that return you have the lowest chance of being audited- GUARANTEED! Next would be a CPA and now that the IRS requires all paid preparers to have a PTIN, that would be your last resort.

Contrary to what many people think, the IRS views CPAs as "arrogant" and will be more sympathetic to EAs as they are directly licensed by the IRS and have to complete a thorough exam to get their status, much like a CPA, the only difference being that the EA exam is ONLY taxes, while CPA is accounting in general with a small portion on taxes. To top it off, CPAs are not required to take any tax courses for CPE, while EAs must take atleast 24hrs of CPE every 2yrs to renew their designation.

For those who think that an at-home tax software will save you money, just watch this news report: YouTube - Comparison of H&R Block, Liberty Tax, and Turbotax

In addition to not getting the best rates/refunds, doing your own taxes makes you much more likely to get audited!

 

[Runum]

At this point I have been through the tax preparer. I had a good tax preparer for about 3-4 years. He filled out the forms well but made no strategic suggestions.

I then transferred to a more aggressive CPA and he has done a good job of finding write offs and solutions. However, he has limited accessibility, is hundreds of miles away, and has stood me up two times on conference calls to discuss future strategy.

Now I am looking for an aggressive, local CPA. I need to see my CPA face to face to read facial expressions and body language. Communication is far more than just speech. I thought I had one, she interviewed well. She turned out to be unreliable right off the bat, missed appointments and deadlines, wouldn't answer the phone.

You will notice that I have not mentioned price. My current CPA has made me far more than his fee each year. I just think I need to make some adjustments to fine tune my situation.

 

[TaxGuy]

Have you considered Skype or Go-To-Meeting with your current CPA?

This is something I forgot to mention in my above post, but your post shows that a physical, face-to-face presence can be the deciding factor, especially when all else is equal(value-accessibility-price), although I'd say that face-to-face falls under accessibility, sometimes just being able to promptly respond to calls and emails with the ability to setup meetings can satisfy the accessibility concerns.

 

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[Runum]

Have you considered Skype or Go-To-Meeting with your current CPA?

This is something I forgot to mention in my above post, but your post shows that a physical, face-to-face presence can be the deciding factor, especially when all else is equal(value-accessibility-price), although I'd say that face-to-face falls under accessibility, sometimes just being able to promptly respond to calls and emails with the ability to setup meetings can satisfy the accessibility concerns.

I Skype all the time with my kid at college. Skype is very cool for that purpose but it is jumpy and sketchy. It is hard to read facial expressions and body language over Skype.

The face to face is important to me in the initial interview and every strategy session(1-2 times a year). If the contact is general(like signing docs or delivering papaers) I don't care if it's face to face.

 

[TaxGuy]

It might have to do with the quality of your stream- either the webcam or connection. Either way, I see your point and requiring an initial face-to-face meeting is a good requirement as well as 1-2 times a year for strategy sessions.

I'm just hoping that we can build more of a nationwide client base through this tactic by convincing those who would otherwise be nervous to trust something as vital as taxes to someone they've never met in person. Otherwise, we have gained more Chicago clients through referrals who have never met my dad or even video chatted with him.

 

[TaxGuy]

On an unrelated note, here's the AdSense link that popped up in this thread:

An example of a genius marketer who makes a killing off of Sidewalkers. Personally, I wouldn't go the route he did and will try to not to let my personal opinions of operations like his cloud my judgment when it comes to defining him as a Fastlaner.

 

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[CommonCents]

that commercial runs nonstop on TV, must be jamming. Is taxmasters just a national marketer and then refers people to local cpa's for a fee? or do they do the work in-house?

 

[TaxGuy]

They are a nationwide chain, much like Roni Deutch or JK Harris.

Their marketing is genius because they use a direct marketing tactic(TV) to their target market(Sidewalkers), namely entitlement minded and event oriented individuals who think that they can settle their $10k+ tax debts for pennies on the dollar by paying an "expert" $2500 up front(and possibly more in the long-run) to plead their case with the IRS.

In addition, his somber tone in the commercials promotes quick action and gives an aura of a professional demeanor. His commercials now have a holiday back-drop and come with the tag-line "There's nothing like a tax problem to ruin your holidays, we can help!"

As far as their services go, any enrolled tax professional(EA, CPA, Actuary, etc) can give you the same representation as a tax attorney in tax court and unbeknown to most, an Enrolled Agent gives you the best chances of settling your debts as the IRS is more sympathetic towards them, views them as equals, while viewing most CPAs and Attorneys as arrogant. That's why I'm glad my dad has the double distinction of CPA/EA and I am only concerned with obtaining an EA and have no desire to get a CPA as I plan on sticking with the niche of taxes and none of the other mess of accounting practices(i.e. book-keeping, auditing, reporting, etc)