Why copywriting is a bunch of Bull$h^t and you shouldn't learn it...

[Deleted35442]

Copywriting has made my companies over a $1,000,000 in the last 5 years.

But you're right it's worthless.

A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year. You've blown what I said out of proportion. "learning copy" is learning writing essentially. People on these forums should be hiring from the Freelance market for their copy, not encouraging people to work for them as @SinisterLex has been doing.

@Supa. The hours make banking shit. The work, while redundant at times, is far from "boring" I promise you. You've been spending too much time making other people rich writing their copy obviously.

Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy. Back to work.

 

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[Growth & Learn]

A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year. You've blown what I said out of proportion. "learning copy" is learning writing essentially. People on these forums should be hiring from the Freelance market for their copy, not encouraging people to work for them as @SinisterLex has been doing.

@Supa. The hours make banking shit. The work, while redundant at times, is far from "boring" I promise you. You've been spending too much time making other people rich writing their copy obviously.

Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy. Back to work.

And if I was ___ I would have ____. Shoulda coulda woulda?

Don't make the false assumption that our revenues were only $1,000,000. That # is just specific to income generation from sales pages that had copywriting.

You're kind of an aggressive and argumentative one aren't ya.

Yeah you should get back to work. Lmao.

 

[Envision]

A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year. You've blown what I said out of proportion. "learning copy" is learning writing essentially. People on these forums should be hiring from the Freelance market for their copy, not encouraging people to work for them as @SinisterLex has been doing.

@Supa. The hours make banking shit. The work, while redundant at times, is far from "boring" I promise you. You've been spending too much time making other people rich writing their copy obviously.

Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy. Back to work.

This had me dying: A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year.

Ok Bro.

Who's to say that there is any one way to go about being an entrepreneur?

I read through your introduction thread (https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...n-in-nyc-and-read-mjs-book.63583/#post-495558) that was posted 4 and a half months ago and I really dont think you would "have surpassed this in salary alone easy".

To be honest with the tone and attitude you display through your posts and introduction thread I think you have alot of personal development to do before ever even getting close to achieving any level of success.. but who cares what I think right?

"I bombed my last semester at college yet took the job anyways, they never knew and never found out. I let myself get fired"

" I'd show up late, I disrespected my boss (a real F*ckface anyhow), and started walking out of his office mid-meetings amid tensions. I desperately started interviewing again via phone and in-person. I wanted to get back on Wall Street even if I had to build my way up via mid/back office. That didn't happen, I was fired before it did"

"Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy."

The way you speak is as though you already know what you're doing and that it's beneath you to learn essential skills that make a true entrepreneur. You seem to think that you obviously cant be a freelancer to be an entrepreneur because you're working for other people and thats not entrepreneur... But there are so many ways to spin copywriting into a business and make millions copywriting.. Dan kennedy, John Carlton, Gary Halbert.

I just came in here to say copywriting isnt bull shit, you should understand it and what makes it good, and shit you might even want to do it as a freelance gig to develop the skill. You can also get a job working for someone who does what you want to do, either way there's no one way to be an entrepreneur. You define your own path.

Oh, and just to put you to sleep.

 

[Lex DeVille]

not encouraging people to work for them as @@SinisterLex has been doing.

[HASHTAG]#ignoredforever[/HASHTAG] good luck in your pursuits.

 

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[BaraQueenbee]

[HASHTAG]#ignoredforever[/HASHTAG] good luck in your pursuits.

Not a landfill, but is there a [HASHTAG]#someone[/HASHTAG] please throw this person of this forum hashtag?


OR. Let's all ignore, and continue with this super good point Andrew made.

Andrew and Andy both expressed really well that passion is felt through everything. The words, the way you market, what you do.
Once you experience that for the first time, you're like: WOW! Like a chain and snowball getting more and more movement, and more and more come on your path and then you realize that is what defines happiness.

now I may completely derailed but I feel we need to get back on track with the great origin of this post. I wish y'all a great evening!

 

[MikeC]

Andrew you the man. But I couldn't disagree more with your title.

Copywriting is maybe THE most essential skill any individual who wants to succeed in life should learn.

It is NOT something that can be learned overnight. Would you expect a pianist to thrill a sold out crowd at Carnegie Hall after six months? No, you'd expect them to totally suck. So your friend's writing doesn't surprise me.

It's a very common copywriting mistake to copy the WORDS of the great writers, instead of the IDEAS that spawned them. A great copywriter understands that "Dear Friend" is a salutation, and will use that IDEA to spawn what they will write in their letter, tailored to their reader.

Copywriting isn't about the writing... it's salesmanship in print. Your friend would totally fail an in person meeting with the CEO's he's contacting, I'm sure of it. He doesn't have a clue who he's talking to. And that's rule #1 of writing copy.

What SHOULD be discouraged is the mindset that someone can learn copy overnight. Or in six months. Or five years. I see this all the time as a musician. People think they can just pick up an instrument and learn it. You can do that, after you've already totally mastered the process for learning ONE instrument, which will take—at minimum—10 years of HARD, dedicated, passionate practice.

Copywriting is sales, marketing and media all in one. To truly master it requires an insane amount direct, in-the-field, SELLING experience. Not to mention the balls of putting YOUR IDEAS on the line when real dollars are at stake. Over and over again. It's a field that guarantees crashing and burning. And for the people who can't even practice scales on a guitar, or master the basics of an Adobe product, or put the most basic product to market, copywriting is not a skill that will magically come. But I also doubt they'll ever truly invest BLOOD EQUITY in the Fastlane to begin with.

 

[Shades]

Shitty copywriters and people who know nothing about copywriting THINK that copywriting sounds like "spammy BS that will ring the BS alarm in peoples heads".

If copywriting sounds spammy or bs. Then the person who wrote that, is NOT copywriter, they're a wanna be copywriter. Which is why their copy sucks shit.

People who write that spammy nonsense think that "1 simple trick to get rich" is effective copy. And there's so much of that, people think that's what copy is...

Go read the rolls royce ad... you can't tell it's copy, it doesn't have an ounce of "spammyness" or "BS".

P.S. If you don't know what the rolls royce ad is... then you have no business commenting on anything related to copywriting. Because there's only 1 rolls ad that should pop in your head.

P.P.S Have a nice day.

Yeesh, you had to bring out the P.S. and P.P.S. trick in a post? Did you just get done with Cashvertising?

 

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[Member]

I love how this forum is willing to call each other (correctly or incorrectly) on what they perceive as BS. Tough love! We are all better because of the fighting spirit everyone has.

I think of copywriting as the cornerstone of business. Knowing what sells helps you develop your product. Knowing what you would like to be able to say to your customers helps you make product development decisions, e.g. they won't care about this, but they will care about this.

If you don't have a good understanding of people you're going to build products that no one wants.

Copywriting is mostly about understanding people, it's not about techniques and tricks. Techniques and tricks will always be cyclical as people catch on to them (or as the FCC bans them...).

New and old, the techniques will always push the same core emotional triggers that humanity has had for thousands of years, and it's those emotional triggers that people should understand if they want to find things people are dying to have.

On the topic of the copywriting threads, my take is that they have all been phenomenal.

They are all about creating value, self starting, and making opportunity for yourself. Gold threads.

 

[csalvato]

Go read the rolls royce ad... you can't tell it's copy, it doesn't have an ounce of "spammyness" or "BS".

TIL about an awesome piece of copy and a name I should have known wayyyy before Gary Halbert's.

 

[csalvato]

You're kind of an aggressive and argumentative one aren't ya.

Location: New York City

Being a native of NYC, my experience has shown that New Yorkers tend to:

• Think they are never wrong
• Think they know everything
• Hate everyone else that isn't in their circle of friends. Often, they hate their friends too.
• Make sure to let everyone know the three preceding facts

This is especially true of most people in the banking industry, and gets proportionally worse with their banking salary.

Interesting fact: The research of Dr. Sapolsky of Stanford shows that New Yorkers are part of the reason why being in NYC causes a spike in Cortisol. (Source: Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805073698/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20)

Don't take it personally @Growth & Learn.

@Cyriex makes some great points...but after reflecting on them, I don't really think they are sound or valid. I would post why, but I have a feeling that would just make him angry, and not really result in a meaningful discussion.

 

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[RHL]

To the point of the entire thread, I don't think you an or should outsource copywriting or ignore it. I think sales is too important in the genesis period of a business, letting someone else do it (especially someone you hired on upwork vs. a vested partner whose soul is in the company) is a recipe for mediocre results. I agree that most of the nostalgic copy from the 50's-90's is positively cringe-worthy today (when I first joined TMF I was appalled that people were studying this stuff), but it'd be cringy if you wrote a novel in Shakespearian English or a song that was nothing but major scales too. The point of fundamentals is not to end with them, but to know them so thoroughly that you can improvise tiny bits of them to make something greater and more relevant to your audience. JK Rowling could have bored the shit out of her readers with pages of Latin roots. Instead she dazzled them by making them a tiny bit of icing on the cake of a really good story.

To the point, letting people "feel your energy," even if it's through videos and live presentation, is to my mind just a permutation of copy. To me, all attempts to persuade a not-already-signing-the-receipt person to buy your product is some form of sales copy. Whether you wrote it using some conscious method or just shaped it by trial and error is immaterial.

I would go into detail about WHY it was marked GOLD but what's the point, you've made up your mind that any Slowlane or "trade for time" endeavor is one gigantic waste of time, even if you're 17 years old with zero skills, zero money, and zero experience.

In addition to what MJ's already said, your arguments about Lex's thread betray a severe lack of imagination.

Consider:

50K/yr isn't cool.

Know what's cool?

Location-independent, self-scheduled 50k/yr.

If you can make 50k/yr anywhere with an internet connection, you're playing in a different league than people who make $200k/yr rooted to one job. You could live in the south pacific and keep getting paid if you knew what you were doing. You could travel constantly. You could rent a studio in Scottsdale October-April, then head to Colorado May-September. More, you can allow a real Fastlane all the time it needs to grow while still feeding your family. Need to meet some dude at ten to sign papers? No problem. Good luck with that in a high pressure banking job; you're lucky if you even have time to take a shit and sleep every day, let alone cut out of work for hours to start a new company.

Additionally, if you can work nights some days, mornings some days, and evenings some days, you're not free-but you're damn close. That's worth a lot. How much depends on your imagination.

 

[Deleted35442]

This had me dying: A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year.

Ok Bro.

Who's to say that there is any one way to go about being an entrepreneur?

I read through your introduction thread (https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...n-in-nyc-and-read-mjs-book.63583/#post-495558) that was posted 4 and a half months ago and I really dont think you would "have surpassed this in salary alone easy".

To be honest with the tone and attitude you display through your posts and introduction thread I think you have alot of personal development to do before ever even getting close to achieving any level of success.. but who cares what I think right?

"I bombed my last semester at college yet took the job anyways, they never knew and never found out. I let myself get fired"

" I'd show up late, I disrespected my boss (a real F*ckface anyhow), and started walking out of his office mid-meetings amid tensions. I desperately started interviewing again via phone and in-person. I wanted to get back on Wall Street even if I had to build my way up via mid/back office. That didn't happen, I was fired before it did"

"Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy."

The way you speak is as though you already know what you're doing and that it's beneath you to learn essential skills that make a true entrepreneur. You seem to think that you obviously cant be a freelancer to be an entrepreneur because you're working for other people and thats not entrepreneur... But there are so many ways to spin copywriting into a business and make millions copywriting.. Dan kennedy, John Carlton, Gary Halbert.

I just came in here to say copywriting isnt bull shit, you should understand it and what makes it good, and shit you might even want to do it as a freelance gig to develop the skill. You can also get a job working for someone who does what you want to do, either way there's no one way to be an entrepreneur. You define your own path.

Oh, and just to put you to sleep.

Yeah, bro, you did put me to sleep. But not for the reasons you think. Do me a favor. Find me one person making the money these guys did off of a Freelance website. All these guys you mentioned made green offering a myriad of during services from coaching to authoring books. Learning copy is bullshit. If you can write, you can write copy. These 17 year old victims you all keep opining over should probably have found a Freelance forum, not an Entrepreneurship forum if you're so against the "bores of 9-5". Your YouTube example is just piss weak.

@Growth & Learn I was employed. I was making more money than yourself. Had I been a good sheeple and lasted to bonus time....Different convo. Revenues aren't profit. $1mm over 5 years with several "companies". Yeah, you're doing something wrong. Keep believing. See you on eLance - writing my copy.

@csalvato Radical transparency is great. My points are valid since they assault the simple fact that this Freelance lifestyle is being glorified as Fastlane. Everything Demarco said here contradicts what's in his book which is very disappointing.

@RHL I'd rather make a million. Make 5% ROI per year having that million spread out across Index funds, ETFs, and high yield bonds. That's $50K of free money per year. People can get by on less. If you're traveling and building brand equity in any company you have my respect. Your comments about banking are inaccurate. Hours are shot and pay isn't what it was, but still higher than what these clowns are pitching me on. Coincidentally, I'll be doing the very thing you mention soon but only because my actual company is doing as well as it is and I'm in a position to work from anywhere.

I think the consensus is that this became a Freelance Forum. Odesk/eLance/Freelancer will not make any of you rich. End of.

 

[Growth & Learn]

Yeah, bro, you did put me to sleep. But not for the reasons you think. Do me a favor. Find me one person making the money these guys did off of a Freelance website. All these guys you mentioned made green offering a myriad of during services from coaching to authoring books. Learning copy is bullshit. If you can write, you can write copy. These 17 year old victims you all keep opining over should probably have found a Freelance forum, not an Entrepreneurship forum if you're so against the "bores of 9-5". Your YouTube example is just piss weak.

@Growth & Learn I was employed. I was making more money than yourself. Had I been a good sheeple and lasted to bonus time....Different convo. Revenues aren't profit. $1mm over 5 years with several "companies". Yeah, you're doing something wrong. Keep believing. See you on eLance - writing my copy.

@csalvato Radical transparency is great. My points are valid since they assault the simple fact that this Freelance lifestyle is being glorified as Fastlane. Everything Demarco said here contradicts what's in his book which is very disappointing.

@RHL I'd rather make a million. Make 5% ROI per year having that million spread out across Index funds, ETFs, and high yield bonds. That's $50K of free money per year. People can get by on less. If you're traveling and building brand equity in any company you have my respect. Your comments about banking are inaccurate. Hours are shot and pay isn't what it was, but still higher than what these clowns are pitching me on. Coincidentally, I'll be doing the very thing you mention soon but only because my actual company is doing as well as it is and I'm in a position to work from anywhere.

I think the consensus is that this became a Freelance Forum. Odesk/eLance/Freelancer will not make any of you rich. End of.

I'm going to start ignoring this rookie. I can guarantee this guy is full of it. He got fired 4 and a half months ago from his 1st job out of college and now his company is "doing well" and spouting criticism of millionaires on the fast lane forum....come on bro. You can't hustle a hustler.

Instead of criticizing everything (which I'm sure is the reason you got fired and continue to burn bridges) you should eat some humble pie and learn. There are lots of people here more experienced than you.

Last thing I'll say and then I'm going back to earning money tonight...instead of wasting my time with a newbie who has attitude issues.... it's obvious from every word you type and your outlook that you lack sales and relationship building skills.

You'll need both of those skills to build a real business.

Post a link to your business so we can see what you're up to.

 

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[csalvato]

@Cyriex makes some great points...but after reflecting on them, I don't really think they are sound or valid. I would post why, but I have a feeling that would just make him angry, and not really result in a meaningful discussion.

@csalvato Radical transparency is great. My points are valid since they assault the simple fact that this Freelance lifestyle is being glorified as Fastlane. Everything Demarco said here contradicts what's in his book which is very disappointing.

Case in point.

 

[csalvato]

@Cyriex I would ask you to consider people who learned copy and started multi-billion copy businesses.

Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ogilvy_(businessman)

That sort of thing just isn't possible unless you have a job or freelancing background where you learn those skills really well. Using the Ogilvy example, he worked at Gallup for 10 years to learn how to do market research to write amazing copy.

There's a ton of reasons why learning any skill is wortwhile as you go through the fastlane process. It's very easy to say "I would rather start a company where my profits are $1MM/year then invest that at 5% for 50k of free passive money a year!" But how do you GET to that point without making yourself valuable or learning skills?

 

[JasonR]

@AndrewNC creates click bait title on how you shouldn't learn to write copy? Hmmm....

 

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[Supa]

@Cyriex your posts make me think that the only thing you are interested in, is making money. Every point you try to make is backed by a making money reason, I didn't read one real point about creating value.

 

[BlakeIC]

A mil over 5 years. If I was still in banking I'd have surpassed this in salary alone easy. No, I'd have probably left after 3 and started a multimillion dollar macro fund while your "companies" are hustling for just over $200k a year. You've blown what I said out of proportion. "learning copy" is learning writing essentially. People on these forums should be hiring from the Freelance market for their copy, not encouraging people to work for them as @SinisterLex has been doing.

@Supa. The hours make banking shit. The work, while redundant at times, is far from "boring" I promise you. You've been spending too much time making other people rich writing their copy obviously.

Hard to accept that mental masturbation is prized above realism and actually building companies here. See you guys on eLance when I need somebody to write my copy. Back to work.

Tired of constantly seeing you acting like a parasite

Ignore list you go

 

[marklov]

While I don't agree with all of Cyriex points and his brash tone might offend some, copywriting is obviously one of the in things now around here and he is stepping on a lot of toes of those hanging on to copywriting with nothing else as the beginning of their journey to the fastlane.

What if he had said learning to program apps is a waste of time when apps were the in thing.....oh wait maybe somebody did

The bandwagon behavior is bit too strong with everyone wailing on the guy.....

Elance/upwork or whatever wont make you rich but at least for a few months can give you some well needed experience but if you are stuck in "have to start small mode" whoring yourself out on the freelance site wont do you any good either and some get caught up in that cycle for years justifying why they should wait until next year but next year never comes.........

If there is any position you really want to be in as a freelancer by reference of ogilvy who was used as an example in this thread, is getting on with a company that recognizes the usefulness of selling by print, these are the companies that can pay you 70k-100k salary with benefits like seeing the process behind bringing a product to market, fulfillment and other fine nuances...

Where you can also work from home but these jobs are often few and far between because the companies or rather individuals that offer these positions have wagered their own "pound of flesh" in the game and know the vaule of the skill, good luck finding that on upwork or wherever where you must not only do work for menial amounts but also work with persons where the most they have done so far is get a logo off fiver then waiting on you to do the rest.

It's a night and day difference working with clients who "get it" and those clueless you have to educate as to the "whys" of what is needed to be done.

Lastly im surprised by all the guys quoting up how much millions copywriters made, I thought event glorifying was supposed to be....

 

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[csalvato]

While I don't agree with all of Cyriex points and his brash tone might offend some, copywriting is obviously one of the in things now around here and he is stepping on a lot of toes of those hanging on to copywriting with nothing else as the beginning of their journey to the fastlane.

What if he had said learning to program apps is a waste of time when apps were the in thing.....oh wait maybe somebody did

The bandwagon behavior is bit too strong with everyone wailing on the guy.....

Elance/upwork or whatever wont make you rich but at least for a few months can give you some well needed experience but if you are stuck in "have to start small mode" whoring yourself out on the freelance site wont do you any good either and some get caught up in that cycle for years justifying why they should wait until next year but next year never comes.........

If there is any position you really want to be in as a freelancer by reference of ogilvy who was used as an example in this thread, is getting on with a company that recognizes the usefulness of selling by print, these are the companies that can pay you 70k-100k salary with benefits like seeing the process behind bringing a product to market, fulfillment and other fine nuances...

Where you can also work from home but these jobs are often few and far between because the companies or rather individuals that offer these positions have wagered their own "pound of flesh" in the game and know the vaule of the skill, good luck finding that on upwork or wherever where you must not only do work for menial amounts but also work with persons where the most they have done so far is get a logo off fiver then waiting on you to do the rest.

It's a night and day difference working with clients who "get it" and those clueless you have to educate as to the "whys" of what is needed to be done.

Lastly im surprised by all the guys quoting up how much millions copywriters made, I thought event glorifying was supposed to be....

Well said!

 

[Supa]

While I don't agree with all of Cyriex points and his brash tone might offend some, copywriting is obviously one of the in things now around here and he is stepping on a lot of toes of those hanging on to copywriting with nothing else as the beginning of their journey to the fastlane.

What if he had said learning to program apps is a waste of time when apps were the in thing.....oh wait maybe somebody did

The bandwagon behavior is bit too strong with everyone wailing on the guy.....

Elance/upwork or whatever wont make you rich but at least for a few months can give you some well needed experience but if you are stuck in "have to start small mode" whoring yourself out on the freelance site wont do you any good either and some get caught up in that cycle for years justifying why they should wait until next year but next year never comes.........

If there is any position you really want to be in as a freelancer by reference of ogilvy who was used as an example in this thread, is getting on with a company that recognizes the usefulness of selling by print, these are the companies that can pay you 70k-100k salary with benefits like seeing the process behind bringing a product to market, fulfillment and other fine nuances...

Where you can also work from home but these jobs are often few and far between because the companies or rather individuals that offer these positions have wagered their own "pound of flesh" in the game and know the vaule of the skill, good luck finding that on upwork or wherever where you must not only do work for menial amounts but also work with persons where the most they have done so far is get a logo off fiver then waiting on you to do the rest.

It's a night and day difference working with clients who "get it" and those clueless you have to educate as to the "whys" of what is needed to be done.

Lastly im surprised by all the guys quoting up how much millions copywriters made, I thought event glorifying was supposed to be....

Now see what a difference a respectful tone can make

The thing is that no one of the great contributors on here recommended to do copywriting as a job or as a business. Usually copywriting is mentioned as a great skill that will help you a lot in marketing your product and business.

Can't remember one post by MJ, SinisterLex or any other long time member on here that recommends copywriting as something else than a useful skill..

 

[Deleted35442]

While I don't agree with all of Cyriex points and his brash tone might offend some, copywriting is obviously one of the in things now around here and he is stepping on a lot of toes of those hanging on to copywriting with nothing else as the beginning of their journey to the fastlane.

What if he had said learning to program apps is a waste of time when apps were the in thing.....oh wait maybe somebody did

The bandwagon behavior is bit too strong with everyone wailing on the guy.....

Elance/upwork or whatever wont make you rich but at least for a few months can give you some well needed experience but if you are stuck in "have to start small mode" whoring yourself out on the freelance site wont do you any good either and some get caught up in that cycle for years justifying why they should wait until next year but next year never comes.........

If there is any position you really want to be in as a freelancer by reference of ogilvy who was used as an example in this thread, is getting on with a company that recognizes the usefulness of selling by print, these are the companies that can pay you 70k-100k salary with benefits like seeing the process behind bringing a product to market, fulfillment and other fine nuances...

Where you can also work from home but these jobs are often few and far between because the companies or rather individuals that offer these positions have wagered their own "pound of flesh" in the game and know the vaule of the skill, good luck finding that on upwork or wherever where you must not only do work for menial amounts but also work with persons where the most they have done so far is get a logo off fiver then waiting on you to do the rest.

It's a night and day difference working with clients who "get it" and those clueless you have to educate as to the "whys" of what is needed to be done.

Lastly im surprised by all the guys quoting up how much millions copywriters made, I thought event glorifying was supposed to be....

Finally, a voice of reason in a sea of tears for the 17 year old Freelance community. Seems most people here just want to be independent, I get it, it's sexy. But it's not Fastlane. It's sexy living in SE Asia with a laptop and internet connection these days. @marklov you absolutely get the crowd I was referring to so kudos, brother. Spot on with companies willing to shell out money and benefits to that tune and I see it all the time. High salary, benefits, workflow. Independent copywriters are dime a dozen, especially in NYC. Making a name for yourself in this space isn't what it used to be.

I helped launch a now famous hoax app for a creative agency. We were featured in everything from GQ to Business INSIDERS. We spent less than $100 on Marketing and the ROI has been overwhelming. I can't impress upon you how much noise there is in the already over-saturated copy-writing market and startup creative agencies. None of you. I repeat, none of you, will get rich on a Freelance website. But how dare I tell these 17 year olds to get a job.

@Supa if you require what you deem to be a "respectful tone" rather than brutal honesty, you might as well call it quits right now. Would you like a safe space with that?

Bandwagon's indeed too strong. Next.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

But how dare I tell these 17 year olds to get a job.

 

[Deleted35442]

Lol.

 

[Growth & Learn]

Now see what a difference a respectful tone can make

The thing is that no one of the great contributors on here recommended to do copywriting as a job or as a business. Usually copywriting is mentioned as a great skill that will help you a lot in marketing your product and business.

Can't remember one post by MJ, SinisterLex or any other long time member on here that recommends copywriting as something else than a useful skill..

Exactly...but the kid doesn't read well.

 

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[AndrewNC]

Can I [HASHTAG]#landfill[/HASHTAG] my own thread?

 

[OVOvince]

interesting OP. any links or general direction on where to learn persuasive writing?


btw nice shit storm in here

 

[AndrewNC]

any links or general direction on where to learn persuasive writing?

I wrote an article about this a few months ago.

Metaphors are a powerful way to connect with your audience - http://limitlessceo.com/connect-with-your-audience-better-and-close-more-sales-using-metaphors/

And nested loops keep your audience engaged from start to finish:
http://limitlessceo.com/using-nested-loops-to-keep-your-audience-engaged/

I started learning this through a 4 day training from http://nlp.com/ - they go to different cities throughout the year.

 

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[AndrewNC]

interesting OP. any links or general direction on where to learn persuasive writing?


btw nice shit storm in here

Oh, and here is another reference that someone posted on here a while back....

http://www.designthroughstorytelling.net/periodic/

 

[OVOvince]

appreciate it sir