What happens when no one wants your leads?

[JAJT]

First, get a hold of a decision maker.

Then call them up from a position of information gathering and consultation, not selling. Tell them flat out "Hey, this is a bit of an odd call but I was hoping you could help me out with something that I'm totally lost on with your industry...".

Then explain you have these leads, more keep coming your way and ask what value (if any) they have for that industry, if they ever use them, if you think in his/her expertise they are worth anything at all, etc...

In my experience most people are pretty willing to help a lost soul and brainstorm for at least a second or two with them as long as you don't come off as trying to sell them anything. I've done this on cold calls before when I first start at new jobs with lots of success - if my sales pitch didn't work I'd finish the call with a quick "Okay, not a problem, by the way - I hate to admit it but I'm kind of new to this, in your opinion (question here)?" Once someone feels off the hook for the sale they are more than happy (usually) to help you out with a bit of advice.

 

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[Nick]

"wait, did you hear what I said? You arn't interested in $60,000? Are you stupid?"

They are not stupid, you just have a limited knowledge about how their market operates and you are unable to see their problems and needs properly. I would do more market research and talk to your prospective customers - without trying to sell them on something - to really understand how their business operates and what are the roadblocks they consider important in their business and would be willing to pay for.

 

[throttleforward]

Update - I just got off the phone with the business development director. They asked that I put a proposal together in writing, but that they would be willing to pay more per lead than I had hoped for, with a monthly cap as a trial. Looks like I'm in business! Now I need to strike similar agreements with the other ~40 vacation rental/property management companies.

I think I'll continue to pursue the public posting/bidding of leads idea as a part of my proposal. I'd really like to shift the paradigm for consumers and businesses - consumers have companies bidding on them (as opposed to having to spend hours searching 40 individual websites for available rentals) and businesses will be spending money to get in front of highly qualified leads (as opposed to adwords, billboards, VRBO, etc.).

I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the help!

 

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[TopChef]

Having that many people jumping to rent may indicate a hot market for the property owner. What are the vacancy rates? If these property managers already have plenty of leads they won't need you.

I would call them again only this time pose as a potential property owner. Ask what the vacancy rates are and see how hot the market is.

 

[AmyQ]

Speed+

I don't know anything about vacation rentals, but I love the fact that you 1. recognized your error 2. asked for feedback 3. accepted responsibility for the feedback 4. adjusted your approach and 5. kept going.

My husband always tells me that realizing you are wrong is great because you once you see that you can change/improve your outcome. I am still working on that - I don't like being wrong, but this is a great example of how being mature enough to recognize your approach is flawed leads to opportunity.

 

[Milkanic]

My hope is that by consistently providing good leads for free (for a limited period of time), they get used to the concept and actually test drive the process. Once that happens, I'm hopeful I can get companies to start paying for leads.

This is what I was going to suggest. Check out this guy's blog for ideas as well Dave Gooden - Entrepreneur. He runs lakeplace.com and is pretty transparent on the blog.

 

[dknise]

Just to chime in on the original post's concept, I'm in software but I think the same thing applies.

I have people do this for me all the time, and I instantly unfriend them on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, shoot out my carrier pidgeons left eye so they can't see their home, cut my fax line, snap every cell phone within 50 feet of me, you get the point.

Reason being is they are talking to my prospective clients and falsely representing my business to them. I have zero idea what they told them, what expectations they set up, and what damage they may have caused to the reputation of my business in the process. In addition, I have vertical and horizontal integration plans that span over a period of time so that all paying clients have a smooth, successful experience with us. The people who brought me the business then turn around with this face like "are you serious? I brought you tons of business now give me my 50% commission." And that's when shit really hits the fan, because they expect an insane sales commission for something I didn't ask them to do.

 

[throttleforward]

Just had a rental company contact me and said they were going to try the system on a trial basis; they've already started sending matching properties for leads. 1 down, 39 to go!

 

[throttleforward]

Update: I went down to the vacation spot (10 hours of total driving today) and met with vacation rental company owners and marketing managers. I managed to pitch my concept successfully - I'm one additional contact from having the entire stretch of beach covered by at least 1 rental company through the pilot phase. I also learned that some rental companies were very excited about the prospect of me moving rentals that hadn't sold, and that they were willing to (in some cases) pay me over $1,000+ to do so!!!

This is enough of a validation that I'm going to move out of pre-pilot idea validation and into a full-fledged pilot. My goals will be to establish/improve communication and lead systems between me and rental companies, split test my website/offers/ads, and follow up with customers to see how I can make their experience more valuable. I'm hoping this phase will take between 2-4 weeks, afterwhich I'll reevaluate and start charging rental companies for these leads.

A few lessons I learned/relearned this trip:
-Face time and establishing relationships is important. I went from a nameless/faceless guys randomly calliing about some lead system to a real person with a real product. I think it also showed that I was serious and that I was genuine in my intention of making sure it was a true win-win for customers AND rental companies (something a lot of the current lead gen providers don't care about)
-Face to face pitching allows for opportunities to fully listen, and "adjust fire". In every instance, I walked into the meeting, gave a little minipitch, and was immediately told why the rental company wouldn't be interested. Instead of saying "oh well - thanks for your time" I interviewed them a little bit - I got a sense of what their pain points were, and what they would be willing to pay for. In the end I crafted deals and proposals by the end of the conversation that moved the rentals from "no" to "let's start the pilot" and "you have a really great idea here!"
-All plans fail first contact with the enemy (or customer/client). I came into the pitch with an ipad loaded with a slide deck I had put together, plus preloaded webpages with my content. In the first meeting I never even had the opportunity to open the ipad - I had to pitch from memory, know my numbers off the top of my head (which is no problem for me, but can me for some), and I had to be able to listen and debate. In another meeting, pulling out the ipad and illustrating what I was talking about was key to moving the rental company to a "yes" for starting the pilot.
-Be honest. I didn't walk into the meetings as if I had some huge company - instead I talked about my entreprenurial journey, the fact that I have a day job as a speechwriter, and that I was there because I had failed enough to know what a decent validation test looks like. I think this honesty helped to establish the right kinds of relationships off the bat.
-Get angry and keep pushing. After my first successful meeting, I thought "great! I'll just email the other rental companies - I don't need to meet with them in person." Which of course is crazy thinking! But let's be honest, pitching is uncomfortable enough, and I had only one scheduled meeting. Instead of being content with that, I said to myself "I drove all the way down here and I'm just going to meet with one company? F that - grow some balls and go cold call a rental that you'd contacted before, and get them signed up." So, I randomly showed up to a rental company that had turned me down, went in the lobby, and said I wanted to speak to the marketing director. A very skeptical gatekeeper-type called the director and told me that they were very busy, but that they would come down and meet me quickly. Let's just say that an hour+ later of conversation and I had the company signed up.

 

[TopChef]

Throttleforward

A lot of property managers/marketing directors have no incentive to use your service as the people you are talking to may not be the actual business owner. They may just be managing the accounts. I wonder if a part of their reluctance to move forward is partly do to fear that you are doing their job for them and they are threatened.

If you are a marketing director for a resort, what is the upside for using your service? You'll make his boss more money? Now what is the downside? You might screw up and make him look bad. Or you might do really good and make him look bad.

It's hard to say what the right course of action is here because it depends a lot on the particulars. Big companies vs small companies, INSIDERS vs outsider climate, etc. But I think you have a few options here.

1) Find the property management's owner and make your pitch to him. Keep climbing the ladder until you reach someone who has a clear profit motive.

2) Offer your services to the marketing director and let him get the leads. Ie you do seo, build websites for him, build surveys, etc.

3) Become your own property management company and take your pitch directly to the property owner.

A lot of this has to do with the market you are dealing with. Is it a lot of individual home owners? Is it big sized resorts? Is it small sized resorts?

 

[throttleforward]

Update - I called the director of business development at one of the rental companies I had a previous relationship with. I had a nice conversation with her - I was pretty honest and non-salesy. I said that I basically had $60,000 in leads that it seemed no one wanted, I was at a loss for what to do, and I couldn't understand why rental companies wouldn't want these leads. She said that none of the rental companies paid for leads in the vacation spot I am targeting, but that they did use websites like VRBO.com. She then went on for 5+ minutes about what a pain VRBO was to use, how much time they had to spend managing it and other similar websites, etc. I offered a twist on those websites as a concept, where instead of them listing their properties, I have a website that publically listed leads. She said that it sounded interesting, and that she would bring it up with the owner of the company, who she was meeting with tomorrow.

Lesson learned here is 1) make sure you understand both sides of the transaction before embarking on a business idea, 2) talk with decision-makers and have a non-sales conversation (as suggested by JAJT and Nick) to assess what their pain points were, and 3) don't be afraid to call these people, even if it means outright rejection. I'll keep you guys posted on what they come back with tomorrow. In the mean time, I'm going to try to have similar conversations with the other 39 rental companies to see if there is a trend, or if the one I talked to was an outlier.

 

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[Thriftypreneur]

Update - I called the director of business development at one of the rental companies I had a previous relationship with. I had a nice conversation with her - I was pretty honest and non-salesy. I said that I basically had $60,000 in leads that it seemed no one wanted, I was at a loss for what to do, and I couldn't understand why rental companies wouldn't want these leads. She said that none of the rental companies paid for leads in the vacation spot I am targeting, but that they did use websites like VRBO.com. She then went on for 5+ minutes about what a pain VRBO was to use, how much time they had to spend managing it and other similar websites, etc. I offered a twist on those websites as a concept, where instead of them listing their properties, I have a website that publically listed leads. She said that it sounded interesting, and that she would bring it up with the owner of the company, who she was meeting with tomorrow.

Lesson learned here is 1) make sure you understand both sides of the transaction before embarking on a business idea, 2) talk with decision-makers and have a non-sales conversation (as suggested by JAJT and Nick) to assess what their pain points were, and 3) don't be afraid to call these people, even if it means outright rejection. I'll keep you guys posted on what they come back with tomorrow. In the mean time, I'm going to try to have similar conversations with the other 39 rental companies to see if there is a trend, or if the one I talked to was an outlier.

Nice. Keep us posted.

As for the rest of you, I'm sorely disappointed that this video wasn't mentioned once. In your future proposal emails, OP, attach this video.

[video=youtube;8kZg_ALxEz0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kZg_ALxEz0[/video]

 

[throttleforward]

My husband always tells me that realizing you are wrong is great because you once you see that you can change/improve your outcome. I am still working on that - I don't like being wrong, but this is a great example of how being mature enough to recognize your approach is flawed leads to opportunity.

Thanks! My hang up used to be that I didn't want people to perceive me as stupid, so I felt I needed to have all the answers and INSIDERS information ahead of time, and I needed to prove to whoever I was talking to that I was a smart "INSIDERS". I've over time taken the approach that the smartest people aren’t the ones with all the answers, but are instead the ones who ask the right people the right questions, and are smart enough and humble enough to listen to the answers. It's been a great mindset shift for me - I'd rather have everyone think I'm a moron for not knowing something basic and asking questions (and then applying what I've learned and becoming successful) than think I know it all and not ask for help in the first place.

I'll also add that by applying that mindset to "sales" calls, where I ask the prospective buyer questions as opposed to pitching what I want to pitch, that I reveal more business opportunities. With this idea in particular, I got incredible information straight from the horse's mouth on what a pain VRBO can be for vacation rental managers, the solutions she wished existed, etc. all because I asked "what leads do you currently pay for?"

This is information I would have gladly paid for from a business consultant, but instead I got it for free because I was willing to not be a know-it-all, I was receptive and ready to listen to the answers, and most importantly I got over my fear of cold-calling her in the first place.

 

[throttleforward]

In my case, I'm intentionally trying to save rental companies (and vacationers) money as opposed to going the commission-based route. Most rental companies spend ungodly amounts of money on these gangly travel websites, mostly because at the end of the day it works, although it's painful and expensive. I'm trying to flip the script - instead of having rental companies manage their data on my website (and by extention attaching their brand with my brand), I am putting up the information on potential rentors on my site for vacation companies to see and respond to, and only charging a small, fixed amount (not some huge percentage) to contact those cusotmers with their offers.

So in my case, I'm not representing anything to potential clients about the rental companies. In fact, I'm saying to potential customers/vacationers: "I'm going to take your information, send it to the rental companies, and send back to you their responses. You choose which rental you like based on the companies that responded to my call for submissions. Some might even offer you a discount to incentivize you to choose their rentals over another company's, but that's up to them. Oh, and I'm going to do this all for free."

I hope that leads to a different experience for everyone, as opposed to what sounds like a pretty painful experience for those who send leads to you.

 

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[CommonCents]

Your idea sounds similar to services such as Lending Tree. That might give you some ideas on how to go to market with it.

 

[FastLearner]

In my experience most people are pretty willing to help a lost soul and brainstorm for at least a second or two with them as long as you don't come off as trying to sell them anything.

This is gold. Absolutely correct about that!

 

[throttleforward]

The Good:
I came up with an idea relating to one of my favorite vacation spots. Since opening 3 days ago, I have 15 clients willing to pay over $60,000 collectively to rent vacation homes at this location. I am easily getting 3-4 new clients per day. I'm astonished at how quickly I've had success finding clients - obviously there is a market and need for my service.

The Bad:
I'm astonished that no rental/property management company wants to even consider having me send this money their way. I've called 5 of the largest so far, and have either gotten the run-around, left messages with directors of marketing and have gotten no call backs, or been flat out told that they weren't interested! Now, I know companies get their walls up when some stranger calls and is obviously looking for some sort of compensation, but I didn't think I'd get totally shut down like this. With one I called and said "I have $60,000 worth of rentals to place - I'd like to send them your way" and the response was "we don't pay travel agent fees, have a nice day." I didn't even get a chance to tell them that I didn't want a typical travel agent fee arrangement.

Any suggestions? Will it take me physically going down there and talking to people, or is this an easy fix? I'm getting to the point where I want to respond back "wait, did you hear what I said? You arn't interested in $60,000? Are you stupid?" but I know that won't be helpful

 

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[throttleforward]

I agree with the general concept of your reply - clearly I misunderstood their needs in some way (otherwise they'd be calling me back). In thinking about my approach, I assumed property management companies wanted to rent more properties and reduce their vacancy rate.

Perhaps what they want is a lower cost option for maintaining their current occupancy rates. For instance, I know that several property management companies put their entire inventory on VRBO, which can cost well over $100k/yr (in addition to their other advertising efforts). I plan to offer leads for a much lower cost.

I also think there is something to be said for resistance to change. Regardless of how many non-sales conversations I have with businesses, I'm convinced that simply repeating back to them their concerns and telling them how I address their problems won't work. A lot of sales and marketing directors like to stay "in the box", as it's easier to justify to their bosses, even if it's less effective than new methods. I know this from experience.

What I'm wondering is if someone on here had to bridge the same gap that I do - if they had to convince old businesses that a new trick really was more effective and cheaper than their current methods. I assume MJ had to do that with limo companies, and that others here have had to do the same.

 

[Tom.V]

To the OP: When no one wants your leads they are worthless. Hope that helps!

What about a larger(national or global) company? I don't know that market, but I'd search around. The juggernauts tend to like buying leads for pennies on the dollar when it lines their pockets.

 

[throttleforward]

Having that many people jumping to rent may indicate a hot market for the property owner. What are the vacancy rates? If these property managers already have plenty of leads they won't need you.

I would call them again only this time pose as a potential property owner. Ask what the vacancy rates are and see how hot the market is.

I took a look at just one rental company - they are currently offering 20% off weekly rentals for 60 properties (some with discounts for several weeks), so clearly there is a need to fill some vacancies, especially in the off season.

I think I'm going to go down two paths and see which one works - one, to make a listing of every available property for each of my clients. Then go to each rental company individually and say "my client wants property x and y, he is willing to pay today. He is trying to decide between X, Y and rentals from 4 other companies. Are you able to offer any discounts for my client?" and try to work it that way. This is path 1.

For path 2, I'm going to call the marketing directors and say "I see that you are having to heavily discount some of your properties in order to move them. I have clients looking for properties, how can we match our clients to your vacancies?" and see what they say.

Eventually I'd like to do a paradigm shift much like priceline, where clients name their price and rental companies bid on their desired trips. But I know that's a ways off.

 

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[throttleforward]

I will certainly use this approach with the marketing directors. To clarify, these leads spend an average of over 4 minutes telling me in detail via an online survey exactly what kind of rental they'd like, when they want to arrive/depart, and how much they'd like to pay. So in terms of lead qualification, I'm not sure it can get much better than that. I'm hoping the value is high for them, especially considering they are all running adwords in addition to other advertising media (so I have a rough idea of how much they are paying per adwords lead, since I'm also running adwords on the same keywords). If I can come under that I think I'd have a play. It's getting the decision makers to talk to me that I'm having trouble with.

 

[Get Right]

Try working with individual owners, they are much more open than property managers. They are pretty easy to spot on VRBO, just look at the comments from visitors.

 

[throttleforward]

Update: I submitted a proposal to the rental company that asked for one. It basically laid out a bunch of different options for payment that they can choose from, and I made it clear that everything is negotiable. I haven't heard anything in a few days, and my leads are waiting for a response, so I decided I needed to speed up the process a little.

I got email addresses for the 40+ rental companies, and sent each one an email (through gmail mail merge, so each one is personally addressed to them as opposed to bcc'ing the email with 1 message). The email basically said I'm a new company, I've got these leads, I'm going to keep getting these leads, and while in beta responding to the leads is completely free. I then put each lead up on a page on my website, with a button below each lead, enabling them to respond to each one with matching properties.

We'll see how this goes - I doubt I'm going to get much of a response with this tactic, as this is a totally new way of doing business for them, and I doubt they trust the process. But, it will lay the groundwork for when I call these companies individually. My hope is that by consistently providing good leads for free (for a limited period of time), they get used to the concept and actually test drive the process. Once that happens, I'm hopeful I can get companies to start paying for leads.

If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears!

 

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[throttleforward]

This is what I was going to suggest. Check out this guy's blog for ideas as well Dave Gooden - Entrepreneur. He runs lakeplace.com and is pretty transparent on the blog.

Thanks for this - great blog and a good success story for everyone to read.

 

[dknise]

In my case, I'm intentionally trying to save rental companies (and vacationers) money as opposed to going the commission-based route. Most rental companies spend ungodly amounts of money on these gangly travel websites, mostly because at the end of the day it works, although it's painful and expensive. I'm trying to flip the script - instead of having rental companies manage their data on my website (and by extention attaching their brand with my brand), I am putting up the information on potential rentors on my site for vacation companies to see and respond to, and only charging a small, fixed amount (not some huge percentage) to contact those cusotmers with their offers.

That explains a bit more about the process you're using. It's still commission based though? That's a cool idea on switching the tables.

I hope that leads to a different experience for everyone, as opposed to what sounds like a pretty painful experience for those who send leads to you.

Hahaha their pain is not my problem.

:hammertime:

 

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[throttleforward]

That explains a bit more about the process you're using. It's still commission based though? That's a cool idea on switching the tables.

Well the honest answer is "the model will be whatever rental companies are willing to exchange money for", but what I'd like to do is combine the elements of a travelocity "name your price" element for the vacationers, and a quibids-like model for the rental companies (pay a flat fixed price to "play" so to speak).

 

[throttleforward]

Update - a rental company submitted individualized responses for 2 of the leads listed on my website. The rental company is the same one that agreed to a trial run for my website. So, in a certain sense, I've proved the concept from both ends of the business model (customers filling out surveys; businesses submitting matching properties).

So, on another note, I sent an email to every rental company in the target area describing my site, what I'm trying to do, that my leads are currently free, and directing them to my website. I got around a 25% email/click rate, with none submitting matching properties (outside of the one I am personally engaging with).

So, tonight I sent an email with each lead's information and a button to contact that lead right in text of the email. I also said that the leads were expiring today, and that I needed a response by COB today. I hope I get more engagement with this technique.

I know that the next step is repeating what was successful, which is calling individual rental companies and building a more personal relationship. I have to say, the prospect is terrifying. I hate cold calling, even though I know that I have legitimate business for these companies, and that I'm trying to help them sell more rentals. I guess I'm just venting - but I've noticed that I'll do anything to avoid calling these companies, because I'm afraid of failure/rejection, even though I have a great market validation test, and even though I've cold called before.

So, we'll see how the email blast goes. If I don't get responses by COB tomorrow, I know I've got 40+ phone calls to make.

 

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[throttleforward]

It's the only technique I've used that's worked so far

 

[FastLearner]

It's the only technique I've used that's worked so far

Then keep pressing on, you're on the right track 100% I'll tell you that right now.

 

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[throttleforward]

Update - 2 more rental companies have responded to my lead emails (out of 40 rental companies contacted). I've also decided to travel to the area and meet face to face with companies. I've already got 2 meetings with rental companies set up - my goal is 8 in 2 days with 5 total signed up.

I also relearned an important lesson at my day job - exclusivity is a huge psychological motivator. We are building a website for internal military consumption - everyone with a military computer can access it. On the page we have a site labeled "restricted" where the website development team works out of. Wouldn't you know, everyone has been clicking the "restricted" site and requesting access, even though there is no invitation for them to do so.

I think that is one reason why my response rate has been so low from rental companies. Not only did I have to prove to them that I wasn't peddling shitty leads, but I also needed to create exclusive demand. Now, I'm going to incorporate into my pitch that I can only take 5 rental companies as launch partners (which is true - I don't have the systems in place to handle responses from all 40 companies), and that 2 of those slots are already filled. I'm confident this will be a much better approach than what I'm currently doing, which is shotgun-emailing all the rental companies with my leads. It's also made me much more focused and confident in my phone pitches to marketing/business development directors.