Website or iPhone apps?

[loop101]

Hello. I have 20 years of IT experience, and am currently teaching myself iPhone programming (I am an old C programmer). I had a few websites 15 years ago (HTML 3.2!), and was also considering learning PHP or Ruby/Rails.

I had decided to learn iPhone programming since it was also a job skill that might be useful to have. I have a few ideas for iPhone apps that I think might fill a need, but they are complex enough that it will take me a while (year) to program them. I liked the iPhone market because it had a high barrier of Entry, and an easy billing system. My ideas are along the lines of the recent Cinemagram (video creation) app.

After reading TMFL, I am trying to consider all possibilities, so I am now considering learning web development - since there is a much larger pool of customers than iPhone owners. Where I work, they use Ruby-on-Rails, which I deal with in a support role. Learning RoR instead of PHP would help at my day job, so I may learn that. Of course the other 90% of the websites seem to use PHP. When I was studying Internet Marketing, people seemed to use mostly CMS apps (Wordpress) to create landing pages. I didn't want to be one of those people that creates 200 websites that all suck.

In the spirit of TMFL, I am starting to look for "needs", and find things that I can do better with either Price, Quality, or Convenience. I was considering that a lot of MJ's success came from the fact that his website catered to other businesses, rather than targeting consumers (he was being paid by companies). So perhaps I should think of what needs companies have, rather than what need web surfers have.

Before I read TMFL, I was solely focused on iPhone apps for consumers, now I am not sure which way I should go. I thought I should determine this "space" before I try to find a "need" to service within that space. I have read that by 2015, mobile devices will consume more internet data than websites, so that seemed to be the way things are going. When I look at website creation, it seems they have a very low barrier of entry, and there are zillions of them.

Sorry to ramble, my brain is fried after another "motivational" day at work. I guess my question is, is there any inherent advantages to operating in the website space vs the iPhone app space, regarding fast lane solutions? I am not concerned with the technical/programming challenges.

 

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[liite]

H Loop, the App market doesn't have that high a barrier of entry, of course if you are building complex apps then for sure. There are 100's of thousands of apps already and in such a short period of time. Perhaps that reflects the barrier of entry. RoR isn't as popular and considering the Fastlane is all about leaving the slowlane behind doing something to help your J.O.B might not be the best idea. Ok you get better at your J.O.B but that's about it.

You need to think of the bigger picture/outside the box a little. Yes many affiliates do use wordpress themes for landing pages, that doesn't mean you have to. Why not create those landing pages and sell them to the affiliates? I don't necessarily agree that MJ targeted the businesses as opposed to the customers. There are millions more customers with a million more needs than there are businesses. Sure businesses have there needs and that's fine. Maybe with the increase of phone users by 2015 you could create a plug-in for wordpess/blogger that helps businesses create mobile versions of there websites? or even target businesses that want to create an app. Plenty of already established businesses now have there own apps. You could create those? Just because more mobile data will be consumed doesn't mean they won't be viewing websites, many people surf the web on mobile phones and personally it can be annoying when a website isn't mobile friendly.

Website creation does have a low barrier to entry but with that in mind knowing PHP wouldn't be a bad tool to have. Again both can be extremely fastlane with the right application and whilst there isn't a definitive "yes focus on this" it comes down to which you think you can give the most VALUE to.

Regards

Liite

 

[Talisman]

Find the need to provide value to. Then worry about the best way to fulfill that need. Not "What need can I fill with tool X".

 

[EN_VY]

You can have a website with a mobile theme that provides same functions as an app?

 

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[brighterside]

RoR isn't as popular and considering the Fastlane is all about leaving the slowlane behind doing something to help your J.O.B might not be the best idea.

Hello there Little. I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Ruby on Rails is very popular as a web programming language. If you have a great idea and need to launch with low overhead, low funding and a short time frame, RoR's can fit that bill. What can take weeks to do on PHP can take around a few days on Rails. I'm not advocate on any of the languages, but I know enough to know each of their strengths and weaknesses - since its my duty to know as a consultant on what the capabilities are on both languages.

As for iphone programming, I have to say that its reaching its point in saturation and that barriers to entry are almost the same as a website. The original posters mentioned that his idea is a bit complex and if thats the case, he might want to consider focusing on a web application instead. The apps that succeed on iOS are simplistic and do one function very well like Instagram, etc.

Thus I would suggest a web application might do the trick. Ruby on Rails is great for a web app because if you already know how to program it is simple to learn, and can easily build a running prototype within a few weeks. As for writing it in PHP, I don't think its a bad language at all and should do the trick if your very good at PHP. Just that I think Ruby on Rails is a faster, cleaner and easier environment. But thats just me.

I wouldn't worry about which language or platform is more popular though. I would put more thought on what benefits your application can provide. It can be the cleanest, smoothest and most professionally coded app out there - but if it doesn't serve a need in the market, its not going to succeed.

Just my two cents.

 

[The-J]

Who cares? Do what the market really needs. Most applications can be done both ways, but which will serve your customers better?

 

[liite]

Hello there Little. I'm sorry but I have to disagree.

Please don't apologis for disagreeing, this is an open discussion and an open forum. I completely agree on the points you raised in your post. You clearly have more experience in this field than I do and I respect that. It is always great to have different points of view on a subject. And like you and several other people have said it all comes down to what can fit the need provide the most value. Be it Ruby or PHP. If you already know Ruby then leverage that.

 

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[loop101]

Thanks for all the responses! it sounds like I need to focus on the (N)eed first. I'm re-reading TMFL, and also reading the books by Felix Dennis (which was recommended by MJ). One of them mentioned focusing on only being best at either Quality, Price, or Convenience - so I am trying to think of how I can do that to solve an existing need.

My iPhone app is risky in the sense that it could completely fail, because I am betting 1.5 years it would serve an unrecognized need. I would almost prefer to compete for a known need than shoot for a "big idea". After reading Dennis's mantra to "own it", I am also a little leery of being dependent on the iTunes store - Apple could put me out of business on a whim. A poster mentioned making a website version of the app, and I believe you can do that - basically the website would have a page designed for the form factor of a mobile phone. That's a good idea, and may allow me to forgo learning the intricacies of Objective-C and just use PHP/RoR.

So after reading the responses, I am leaning towards using websites, and use a 'mobile view' if I want to target mobile devices.

 

[Talisman]

1.5 years for an app is way too long.

1.5 weeks is way too long come to think of it, unless you're learning from scratch.

Ballpark - I will not do an app (utility) unless it takes me less than 4 days for the basic functionality to be complete. Then spend some time in polish, pretty, testing. And I'm talking a complicated app, with a purpose - not a web browser in disguise. For simple apps (say, a calculator) max time = 2 days. (Im not saying I do calculators.. well, I did one, but it was for a niche, yes it took me 2 days, it was my first app. Made $100 on it, it still sells a few each month, makes me laugh).

If you spend 2-7 days on an app, yeah it sucks if Apple puts you out of business, but at least you haven't lost 1.5 years of your time.

.. And it's a lot easier to make enough money back to justify a 5 day effort app, than a 365 day effort app.

Keep at it.

 

[healthstatus]

You are eventually going to need a website to do marketing from, very rarely does Apple market for you. My SAAS software sells for $35k+, my iPhone app sells for $2.99,

 

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[Disciplined]

Why not use a website to start generating traffic that you can then use to advertise the app? Even if you were able to build an app in a few months (I agree that 1.5 years is way too long) once you're done, what's your marketing plan? Just adwords? PPC?

If you can start a site that will get you a following (if you're into generating content) that will make the launch of an app that much easier.

(Tangent that comes back around, I promise)

This reminds me of something that my dad used to say, "The easiest way to make $100k/year (this was in the 80's) is not to have one job, those hard more difficult to come by, it's to have three jobs that pay $33k a year."

I think in the same vein, if you want to do an app that's great, but that's like trying to get ripped by only doing bench press or squats; you're going to need to have more tools in your box than just a one trick pony. Can you make it with just one tool?? Maybe. But, like you said you would love to have the skills of doing iPhone programming because even if your app fails, now you'll be ready for contract work using Xcode, and who doesn't want to make a little coin on the side if they're recovering from a learning (it's not failure unless you quit!) experience?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be monogamous to your idea, MJ emphasizes that in his book, but if you look at a website as one angle of your marketing plan and an app as another then you're still developing skills and increasing your market exposure at the same time.

Opinions are like assholes but I just figured I'd offer my voice as well, the nice thing about the App Store is they alone have 54 million downloads a day. Yes it's a saturated watering hole, however, if you could get just a tenth of a percent of that traffic you'd be a millionaire.

healthstatus/Talisman - I'm curious, how are you pushing traffic to your iPhone app? Was it through a website? Since you sound like you've both been down this road before I would love to hear how you rolled it out.

 

[healthstatus]

I have a decent traffic website, visitors were using our online calculators, so I made iPhone/Android versions and put up a banner. You can't just fill a need, you have to have a stream of traffic looking to fill the need that you can stick your offer in front of and in the case of phone apps you have to do it for really really cheap.

 

[mentalic]

Hello loop101,

I see a little bit of myself in the words you type...I would stick to trying to do something with 'websites'. MJs solution didn't exactly involved finding needs of companies, but needs of end customers too and provided a 'marketplace' to solve both needs. As in limos.com there is also Sailing Holidays, Boat & Yacht rentals now on incrediblue now that does kind of the same thing for boats. Maybe you can start thinking for something similar and start developing it. In 2013 time to market is very important because needs constantly change, so I wouldn't go for a solution that it would take more than 3 months to develop.

For the record I have also studied Objective-C, RoR and PHP in the past... (I am into PHP now)

 

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[loop101]

I have also studied Objective-C, RoR and PHP in the past... (I am into PHP now)

Hi Mentalic, was there a particular reason you are doing PHP now , instead of RoR? From what I have seen, RoR is better organized, and faster when doing complex sites. There seems to be a lot more PHP jobs available. Currently I have a job, so I was trying to use the best tool available for me to make sites. The Incrediblue site was interesting. I will try to incorporate the "marketplace" concept in to my thinking, I had forgotten that! thanks.

 

[mentalic]

Hi Mentalic, was there a particular reason you are doing PHP now , instead of RoR? From what I have seen, RoR is better organized, and faster when doing complex sites. There seems to be a lot more PHP jobs available. Currently I have a job, so I was trying to use the best tool available for me to make sites. The Incrediblue site was interesting. I will try to incorporate the "marketplace" concept in to my thinking, I had forgotten that! thanks.

Not really. I had a very good partner that was into PHP and I have to cooperate with someone for the project I am developing now. RoR is really cool. It's like 50/50 for me...you can go with whichever language you love more. RoR is very common for startups because it speeds up the developing time a lot.

 

[andyredsox]

It is your choice. Do what you feel is the best that can have a big contribution in the industry. And you think is the easy way to invest. You have nothing to worry about, especially that you have an experience to do that project.

 

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