Should I learn programming or pay someone?

[DeletedUser2]

Fire Yourself.

Don't Learn to program.

Focus on making money.

the tricks are.
have you found a market (where people want stuff and pay for it)

have you found a way to get traffic (really, do you think you could battle SEO for credit card companies? )
pay for it first to test.

Next can you provide the stuff people buy, for less than they are willing to pay? (yea profit)

GET YOUR FIST SALE> even ugly sites can sell stuff.

now its all about incremental improvement. 90%+ of companies are not Microsoft or Facebook. they are not innovators in their space.

they Resell stuff, or sell various versions of stuff. it still works, and it still makes money.

FOCUS ON MAKING MONEY. programing is becoming a commodity. you can hire 10 yr programers for very little money. learn to think strategic, and leverage everything. I agree with snobank. focus on the basics.
PS. your better bang for the buck, is learning copy-writing, or understanding marketing messages.

good luck

 

[rthconsultants]

I advocate that you learn yourself; here is why.

There is no shortcut to the event. If you don't pay homage to process, you will, in one way or another, suffer a less than rewarding event.

If you learn to program yourself, you will be able to adapt to change and requests from your clients quicker. If you pay someone else to build your widget, you are handing them the keys to your success and "hope" they don't drive the damn bus off the road.

Will it take time to learn programming? Yes. Yes it will. I started learning programming concepts and techniques over 7 years ago and I am still learning. It is a commitment to lifestyle of continual learning. You will always be learning, adapting and changing.

Maybe it's because I like control .... but never, never give someone else control over your wealth vehicle.

If you build your widget, you know everything there is to know about it inside and out, and that will pay dividends to you during the process in ways you can't see or understand now.

Take any successful product or web startup .... how many of them are ran by people who paid someone else to build it?

Bill Gates? No. (Microsoft)
Steve Jobs? No. (Apple)
Mark Zuckerberg? No. (facebook)
Biz Stone? No. (Twitter)
Drew Houston? No. (DropBox)

If a programmer can see the potential in an idea, he/she isn't going to build it for you (especially for $500.00 dollars), he/she will build it for themselves. Also, I don't care what economy you are in or hire in, $500.00 is not going to get you a pot to piss in (in terms of software). If you found someone that says they'll build your idea for $500.00 I'd run my a$$ the other direction with a quickness.

You're looking for get rich easy, and that my friend is a false prophet - it does not exist. To get massive wealth you need to perform massive action, not have someone else perform massive action for $500.00 (because it isn't going to happen).

My intent isn't to be mean or condescending; rather to violently shake you to your senses, before you waste $500.00 that could undoubtedly be appropriated in more efficient ways.

Take that $500.00 and go buy some books on web programming technologies and get to work!

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[DeletedUser2]

I agree with the gentleman who said that you should learn programming yourself. You can easily do it using a book. Once you've established a viable business, you can expand it by hiring others to do some of the lower-level tasks for you.

that's like learning how to lay brick, learning plumbing, laying a foundation and all aspects of construction before becoming a landlord.

Focus on the making money part.
selling a product to your market.
FAST

 

[fierce86]

My mom knows someone that can do it for like 500 bucks. We might also be able to get it for way cheaper if we pay someone in IRan to do it. I'm persian so I can communicate with the people there and we might know people so it would be cheaper.

I'm thinking I'll learn basic programming and then leave the hard stuff to those people. My site will be a site that allows people to post videos, buy, sell, and it will have a forum. It's pretty intricate but not as intricate as amazon for instance. Maybe as much as limos.com or something...

My concern is that if this business doesn't go well I may need a new site for a new business so I'd have to always rely on someone else. And also since I'm working with animation and video games it's useful to know scripting anyway to add in better features..Any help greatly appreciated =)

 

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[eslater]

I don't entirely agree with Ryans advice. If you are building a fairly small or uncomplicated application then I would agree...pick up a few books and start learning.

However, if you are building something larger scale or with some complication then you have to keep in mind you cannot learn how to program well in a short period of time. Real skill in anything takes time to develop. I can tell you that applications I built 10 years ago are a joke compared to the ones I develop now.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a developer is just that. He is not a graphic designer or copywriter etc...so no matter what way you go you will need to bring in additional resources if you are looking for top shelf results.

The only other advice I would give you is you get what you pay for (in general). A $500 site wont be much.

Best of Luck,
Elliot

 

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[snowbank]

I advocate that you learn yourself; here is why.

There is no shortcut to the event. If you don't pay homage to process, you will, in one way or another, suffer a less than rewarding event.

I see this a lot after people read MJ's book. You're regurgitating what MJ says and not using logic in applying it to what they're asking. What you're talking about is irrelevant to the question, you're just quoting stuff from MJ.

I started learning programming concepts and techniques over 7 years ago and I am still learning. It is a commitment to lifestyle of continual learning. You will always be learning, adapting and changing.

If you were instead learning, and adapting to making money, you'd be rich right now.

How much time have you spent coding relative to making money?
How many pieces of code have you written in 7 years?
How much money has that brought you in 7 years?

If you reversed the time spent on each, the results on each would probably be reversed as well.

Take any successful product or web startup .... how many of them are ran by people who paid someone else to build it?

Bill Gates? No. (Microsoft)
Steve Jobs? No. (Apple)
Mark Zuckerberg? No. (facebook)
Biz Stone? No. (Twitter)
Drew Houston? No. (DropBox)

This is not logical at all. fierce86 is not building the next google, he's trying to learn how to start a business and make money with it. you do not need to learn how to program to make money. can you, obviously. every programmer seems to think that's the only way how to do it though, because they don't know other ways. looking at the incorrect variables and assuming they apply to everything will crush you long term as an aspiring entrepreneur. you need to be looking at the correct variables and become logical or you should not be trying to make money. it will be a waste of time.

 

[theBiz]

I outsourced my project, i tried many times and failed, i have a good team now its very easy, once i saw things were working out i put an ad on craigslist for a tutor to teach me and ive been going a few times a week and learning a lot. Its not rocket science, don't wait to learn how to code, because it will probably suck anyway, get someone good to do it and hope you learn how to code before you lose control if you even do. Also i built something very complex and is very dynamic, has lots of functions and operations, ive had no problems with the programmers.

My friend is a millionaire from his online business (he does not code and outsources to almost 50 people for almost 10 years now) so one day he said just use one of these guys.... so i did. Outsourcing" is too broad of a term, some Indian guy who just learned coding is going to suck, get a real team, pay a little more, and you should be able to build whatever you want. My learning curve was expensive because i got burnt so many times but now its easy to find good guys.

Note: one of my big problems was i got excited and always jumped into too fast, if they can not show you previous work that surpasses what you want to do simply walk away, they will all say oh i can etc, no... show me something similar to what i want, and see if they are making money...

 

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[Greg R]

Learn enough so you can build a dirty prototype.

I like the idea of the "dirty prototype."

I don't know how to code, but I know enough to get around Wordpress.

It makes sense to build the dirty prototype through Wordpress and a slew of plugins to help automate the system.

This give me a chance to get intimate with the core of the business and cheaply validate it before I dump truck loads of money into getting the site developed (seemed to be a mutual consensous from all of the Should I learn How to Code) threads.

Whatever I cannot find a plugin for, I will just have to do the work manually (mostly back end tasks).

Hopefully the income generated from the site can sponsor paying a developer and the new site can sponsor the app.

We all have an idea of how we want the finished product to look, but getting there is the challenge.

I think of Walt Disney and his concept of Disney world.

Even though many years have passed, I am not sure Disney has ever reached the Utopian amusement park that he originally had in mind.

But he got damn near close.

 

[smarty]

Good luck with a reply.

View attachment 12997

He's probably dead by now, ran over by a bus or something

I'm the same, I have and idea for a smartphone application that would change how some companies advertise but I have no idea how to approach it.

Find potential customers and talk to them. Don't waste time building something unless you've potential customers (real people) who are really interested.

 

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[fellipe]

if you can find a person who can do that for 500 bucks or cheaper (lol) I don't see any reasons to learn how to code then. I just started a project and I'll pay almost 5k for it. not including the design. I think you get what you pay for.

 

[theBiz]

i have asked this question, so has everyone else millions of times.... lets end it at this.

Should you wait... and learn (which will probably takes years to actually get good) better than the outsourcers

or

Due diligence the hell out of the outsourcers, pick the right one, have them build something and learn coding on the side everyday.


I wasted so much, and i mean so much time doing all this crap. Do you know what worked out...i made friends with a guy making real money with his website locally, told him i had been burned so many times and simply he said oh i have like 40 guys you could use, gave me one of the outsourcing companies and the project is going so smooth and they are not limited to any functionality ive asked and it is difficult (like amazon).

Will the coding be perfect? no, but in the meantime i do other things that can make up for it like building a really good database of users. I have been learning coding and as time goes on i will lean off of the developers, case closed. There is no other solution, so just do that. Just always make sure it looks really professional if the coding is not great, that is how the average person sees through crappy coding and you lose trust.

 

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[MediaMonty]

It depends on what you're trying to build. Most types of websites can be outsourced as long as you're not trying to build the next Facebook or Dropbox. Even if you are trying to build something that's a little more innovative, you can look for a programmer and give him a percentage of the profits.

If you got a quote of $500, I'll assume that you're trying to build something small. I would say outsourcing is the way to go, just make sure you shop around and make sure you get the best price.

 

[Anon3587x]

Unless you can keep a designer on payroll, learn to program yourself.

If you aren't the one who created your site you lose control.

 

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[damien275x]

Hi - I am 22 and I work full time as a Web Application Developer

I still outsource a lot of my development work on pet projects. Why? I'm lazy, and I figure I do it 40 hours a week, that's enough!!! I think you should learn anyway - because that way, someone else can build the majority of the project and you can touch it up and tweak it yourself in the future.

The advantage of being a technical person when liaising with developers overseas is that I can be extremely specific and I know exactly what I want out of the application, how I want it setup and structured underneath. That comes across in the communication process, and they know that they can't take shortcuts and throw a piece of shit together because I am going to know! I get better quality work as a result.

If you don't want to learn coding, that's fine, but at the very least learn the terminology. If you use the lingo they are going to assume you know what you're talking about and they won't screw you over, because believe me - there are a lot of shonky developers out there that just throw pieces together and the guy on the other end is none the wiser, until much later on when they hire someone else to make changes!!

Also, you should be as detailed and specific as you possibly can. Spell it out not just with words, but images, videos, screen shots. Lots and lots of them. If you are absoultley specific about everything, and leave nothing out, you will generally please the developers on the other end, get better quality work, and have a better relationship with them. there's nothing more frustrating when some dickhead friend comes to me with vague plans, I put it together, and they go nup.. wrong, I want this here and that there. TELL ME BEFORE I F*ckING START DAMMIT!

LOL.

Good luck mate!

 

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[snowbank]

My number of shorter, blunt comments to long posts ratio goes up in relation to the number of books MJ sells, and will probably continue to go up until I'm driven to insanity and don't allow myself to post anymore.

 

[Kak]

Should I learn programming or pay someone?

Is your time worth more or less than a programmer's at this point in your venture? Also take into account that it will take you longer than a programmer, yet you will get exactly what you want and can change it at will.

I learned basic web site creation for this reason well after I dished out money on a developer.

 

[911Carrera]

I advocate that you learn yourself; here is why.

There is no shortcut to the event. If you don't pay homage to process, you will, in one way or another, suffer a less than rewarding event.

If you learn to program yourself, you will be able to adapt to change and requests from your clients quicker. If you pay someone else to build your widget, you are handing them the keys to your success and "hope" they don't drive the damn bus off the road.

Will it take time to learn programming? Yes. Yes it will. I started learning programming concepts and techniques over 7 years ago and I am still learning. It is a commitment to lifestyle of continual learning. You will always be learning, adapting and changing.

Maybe it's because I like control .... but never, never give someone else control over your wealth vehicle.

If you build your widget, you know everything there is to know about it inside and out, and that will pay dividends to you during the process in ways you can't see or understand now.

Take any successful product or web startup .... how many of them are ran by people who paid someone else to build it?

Bill Gates? No. (Microsoft)
Steve Jobs? No. (Apple)
Mark Zuckerberg? No. (facebook)
Biz Stone? No. (Twitter)
Drew Houston? No. (DropBox)

If a programmer can see the potential in an idea, he/she isn't going to build it for you (especially for $500.00 dollars), he/she will build it for themselves. Also, I don't care what economy you are in or hire in, $500.00 is not going to get you a pot to piss in (in terms of software). If you found someone that says they'll build your idea for $500.00 I'd run my a$$ the other direction with a quickness.

You're looking for get rich easy, and that my friend is a false prophet - it does not exist. To get massive wealth you need to perform massive action, not have someone else perform massive action for $500.00 (because it isn't going to happen).

My intent isn't to be mean or condescending; rather to violently shake you to your senses, before you waste $500.00 that could undoubtedly be appropriated in more efficient ways.

Take that $500.00 and go buy some books on web programming technologies and get to work!

Thanks,

Ryan

I see your point to a certain extent and I used to feel the same way about learning to program but your examples are wrong. Did you know that Steve Jobs was not technical at all. He didn't know how to build computers or program. He was just the marketing guy, the idea guy.

Bill Gates, although he was very technical and could program, didn't program the first MS OS or any one for that matter. He actually had Paul Allen buy it from some programmer and he and his team tweaked and sold it to IBM and started their fortune right then and there.

Mark is actually the only good example because he actually stole the idea from guys who hired him to build the early version. There was a big lawsuit over that and facebook settled for like $20 million to the twins who had their idea allegedly stolen. The facebook that took off was not built by Mark alone, he hired talented guys to help him build it.

Now if you lack capital to pay other people to do the programming and your time spent on programming doesn't affect your business then by all means learn it and it will be a great asset. If anything you should learn enough about programming to know what you want from your programmers in technical terms.

 

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[rthconsultants]

I see your point to a certain extent and I used to feel the same way about learning to program but your examples are wrong. Did you know that Steve Jobs was not technical at all. He didn't know how to build computers or program. He was just the marketing guy, the idea guy.

Bill Gates, although he was very technical and could program, didn't program the first MS OS or any one for that matter. He actually had Paul Allen buy it from some programmer and he and his team tweaked and sold it to IBM and started their fortune right then and there.

Mark is actually the only good example because he actually stole the idea from guys who hired him to build the early version. There was a big lawsuit over that and facebook settled for like $20 million to the twins who had their idea allegedly stolen. The facebook that took off was not built by Mark alone, he hired talented guys to help him build it.

Now if you lack capital to pay other people to do the programming and your time spent on programming doesn't affect your business then by all means learn it and it will be a great asset. If anything you should learn enough about programming to know what you want from your programmers in technical terms.

You're missing the point.

Not one of the people I mentioned in the original post actually built 100%, what their company is selling today. The point is - that they all had major roles in the development process, they knew enough to police the police.

Not one of those individuals would be where they are (were, RIP SJ), if they had tried to build it all themselves.

The best investment you can make is an investment in yourself.

So back to the matter at hand, I advocate learning to build it yourself; with frameworks and loosely typed languages, it won't take as long as one would think to become proficient.

However, if you are going to have someone build it for you, you have to know enough about programming to police the police. Would you invest in municipal bonds without knowing what they are?

 

[DeletedUser397]

Take any successful product or web startup .... how many of them are ran by people who paid someone else to build it?

Bill Gates? No. (Microsoft)
Steve Jobs? No. (Apple)
Mark Zuckerberg? No. (facebook)
Biz Stone? No. (Twitter)
Drew Houston? No. (DropBox)

Actually, DropBox was founded and developed by a team, not just one guy who did all the programming. Steve Jobs didn't exactly do a ton of programming, he was more of a visionary. Zuckerberg and Biz Stone are probably the only 2 on that list that really relied mainly on their own programming skills as the foundation for their business success.

There's also many others that have successfully built internet companies with little or no programming experience. For example, one of my inspirations, Gurbaksh Chahal sold his company Blue Lithium to Yahoo for $300 million, and he didn't do any of the programming himself.

I think as others have said, it definitely depends on what you're doing, and whether learning that new programming skill will help down the line with that project or other projects. I agree with Ryan in some aspects, but overall I've come to the conclusion that you can't know it all, and it's just good to have some knowledge. The more you know the better, as long as you jump start yourself in the right direction, and not get ripped off by whoever you decide to hire later on - that should be enough.

But the problem is... "do it yourself" is good up to an extent... anyone can learn to program, but not everyone can program efficiently. Yeah, you can learn to program and write something in 300 lines, whereas a pro can come along and write the same function in 12 lines.

It's like anything else. Would I rather fix my car myself or get a mechanic to do it? Sure it's nice to know the basics and understand how the car works, so as to not get ripped off, but the mechanic will likely do a much better job than me, in most cases. I could change the oil myself, the filters, change lights, etc. but I'm not going to attempt to change the transmission myself. That's just not my expertise. There's people who have been doing it for a living, have the right tools, resources, troubleshooting experience, and they'll do a much better job. My goal is not to become a mechanic.

I think the analogy can be applied to any service you pay others for, where you hire a specialist because you're not trying to become that specialist yourself... you'd rather pay the money than spend the time trying to specialize in everything.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

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[Crissco]

This is my opinion - As a web developer. - It can go both ways:

Learn to code yourself, you enjoy the learning process and the learning curve, and you also save a lot of money in the short and long run. If your idea takes off you might not have to worry about money, but lets say you have 10 ideas and you spend thousands and thousands on paying someone who knows how to code, ,and i mean QUALITY, not just throw shit together and hope it works, you might be okay. Also have to take into context various updates thought the months and years to improve the site or app. A lot of variables go into it that people sometimes don't get.

Also if you want a "good paying job" as a backup plan just in case, you can get it with programming and the right company.

For anyone wondering what languages are for what:

Font end web development: HTML/CSS Javascript

Fullstack (Create a community website) HTML/CSS /Javascript/ PHP / SQL

Game development: C++

Android : Java

iPhone : Objective C / Swift

 

[Jon L]

I think the OP should hire my company to write his software ... if he is still interested ... though, given the fact that the thread was started in 2011, he might have moved on. I would also charge considerably more than $500, so ... nevermind.

 

[Raoul Duke]

EDIT: Didn't notice the thread creation date. Perhaps OP can tell us how his choices worked out in the end.

Good luck with a reply.

 

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[Dutchy]

I think you get what you pay for.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[mornpine]

It seems that your website/business need ongoing improvement in future after you set it up. So it's better to partner or hire someone to work for you and keep on improving the website.

 

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[fierce86]

ya

ya i'm setting up the general sections easily with hostgator then I'm paying only like 100 bucks to someone in iran to make the harder more technical stuff that requires coding. I will continue to pay him incrementally as he does more if he needs me too. Pretty sweet. =)

 

[Pete799p]

I am in a similar boat with an idea but no programing skills. I guess the real question is how would I know if my partner or outsourced coder was any good? I am not opposed to learning code I just do not want to waste time.

 

[SuccessInMind]

My concern is that if this business doesn't go well I may need a new site for a new business so I'd have to always rely on someone else. And also since I'm working with animation and video games it's useful to know scripting anyway to add in better features..Any help greatly appreciated =)

What need does your website fulfill? Will people want to go to it? Why?

If you have good answers to those questions, then you shouldn't be concerned about what your next step will be if your business fails and be more focused on how to make it succeed.

 

[fierce86]

ok

here is the start of the basic website so far..i don't know how to add the actual forum or video submission stuff or shopping cart etc so this guy in iran will do it for about 100 bucks no matter how intricate. I bet if I asked for a facebook he'd do it too. lol. 100 bucks.

I'm thinking of getting the forum and the main things on the site going to generate traffic so I can start asking people on the site what they want cuz askdatabase.com has been crappy so far. =(

 

[gabrielpark]

You don't need to learn even "basic" programming for a site like the one you're describing because it doesn't seem all that intricate and all of the software that you need already exists. You need to research the software that you need to run a site like that and hire someone who can install and integrate the appropriate software on a server for you. Wikipedia is a great place to learn what you need to study, (forum software, jquery, shopping cart software) and I would learn *some* php and mysql, but you don't need to be an expert. Actually, what you might want to study (google) is called "the lamp platform" - linux, apache, mysql, and php. Vbulletin is the most common forum software and there are many plugins and extensions that do the things you've described.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[BrucetonGuy]

I personally had to bring on a partner in my business (at 20%) because I have no idea when it comes to programming. I have taken the time to read and learn but it just isn't coming to me. I don't think that it is a bad thing to have a partner (someone who knows what they are doing) to help better your product/service and who is able to develop your idea (with creative input). I gave up some control but I think my product will be 10x's better because I did. If I hadn't, with my programming skills, the site would look like crap and would not function the way that I would want. Just my opinion. THanks!