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Should I learn programming or pay someone?

fierce86

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My mom knows someone that can do it for like 500 bucks. We might also be able to get it for way cheaper if we pay someone in IRan to do it. I'm persian so I can communicate with the people there and we might know people so it would be cheaper.

I'm thinking I'll learn basic programming and then leave the hard stuff to those people. My site will be a site that allows people to post videos, buy, sell, and it will have a forum. It's pretty intricate but not as intricate as amazon for instance. Maybe as much as limos.com or something...

My concern is that if this business doesn't go well I may need a new site for a new business so I'd have to always rely on someone else. And also since I'm working with animation and video games it's useful to know scripting anyway to add in better features..Any help greatly appreciated =)
 
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fellipe

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if you can find a person who can do that for 500 bucks or cheaper (lol) I don't see any reasons to learn how to code then. I just started a project and I'll pay almost 5k for it. not including the design. I think you get what you pay for.
 

mornpine

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It seems that your website/business need ongoing improvement in future after you set it up. So it's better to partner or hire someone to work for you and keep on improving the website.
 
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fierce86

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ya

ya i'm setting up the general sections easily with hostgator then I'm paying only like 100 bucks to someone in iran to make the harder more technical stuff that requires coding. I will continue to pay him incrementally as he does more if he needs me too. Pretty sweet. =)
 

Pete799p

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I am in a similar boat with an idea but no programing skills. I guess the real question is how would I know if my partner or outsourced coder was any good? I am not opposed to learning code I just do not want to waste time.
 

theBiz

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i have asked this question, so has everyone else millions of times.... lets end it at this.

Should you wait... and learn (which will probably takes years to actually get good) better than the outsourcers

or

Due diligence the hell out of the outsourcers, pick the right one, have them build something and learn coding on the side everyday.


I wasted so much, and i mean so much time doing all this crap. Do you know what worked out...i made friends with a guy making real money with his website locally, told him i had been burned so many times and simply he said oh i have like 40 guys you could use, gave me one of the outsourcing companies and the project is going so smooth and they are not limited to any functionality ive asked and it is difficult (like amazon).

Will the coding be perfect? no, but in the meantime i do other things that can make up for it like building a really good database of users. I have been learning coding and as time goes on i will lean off of the developers, case closed. There is no other solution, so just do that. Just always make sure it looks really professional if the coding is not great, that is how the average person sees through crappy coding and you lose trust.
 
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SuccessInMind

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My concern is that if this business doesn't go well I may need a new site for a new business so I'd have to always rely on someone else. And also since I'm working with animation and video games it's useful to know scripting anyway to add in better features..Any help greatly appreciated =)

What need does your website fulfill? Will people want to go to it? Why?

If you have good answers to those questions, then you shouldn't be concerned about what your next step will be if your business fails and be more focused on how to make it succeed.
 

rthconsultants

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I advocate that you learn yourself; here is why.

There is no shortcut to the event. If you don't pay homage to process, you will, in one way or another, suffer a less than rewarding event.

If you learn to program yourself, you will be able to adapt to change and requests from your clients quicker. If you pay someone else to build your widget, you are handing them the keys to your success and "hope" they don't drive the damn bus off the road.

Will it take time to learn programming? Yes. Yes it will. I started learning programming concepts and techniques over 7 years ago and I am still learning. It is a commitment to lifestyle of continual learning. You will always be learning, adapting and changing.

Maybe it's because I like control .... but never, never give someone else control over your wealth vehicle.

If you build your widget, you know everything there is to know about it inside and out, and that will pay dividends to you during the process in ways you can't see or understand now.

Take any successful product or web startup .... how many of them are ran by people who paid someone else to build it?

Bill Gates? No. (Microsoft)
Steve Jobs? No. (Apple)
Mark Zuckerberg? No. (facebook)
Biz Stone? No. (Twitter)
Drew Houston? No. (DropBox)

If a programmer can see the potential in an idea, he/she isn't going to build it for you (especially for $500.00 dollars), he/she will build it for themselves. Also, I don't care what economy you are in or hire in, $500.00 is not going to get you a pot to piss in (in terms of software). If you found someone that says they'll build your idea for $500.00 I'd run my a$$ the other direction with a quickness.

You're looking for get rich easy, and that my friend is a false prophet - it does not exist. To get massive wealth you need to perform massive action, not have someone else perform massive action for $500.00 (because it isn't going to happen).

My intent isn't to be mean or condescending; rather to violently shake you to your senses, before you waste $500.00 that could undoubtedly be appropriated in more efficient ways.

Take that $500.00 and go buy some books on web programming technologies and get to work!

Thanks,

Ryan
 

eslater

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I don't entirely agree with Ryans advice. If you are building a fairly small or uncomplicated application then I would agree...pick up a few books and start learning.

However, if you are building something larger scale or with some complication then you have to keep in mind you cannot learn how to program well in a short period of time. Real skill in anything takes time to develop. I can tell you that applications I built 10 years ago are a joke compared to the ones I develop now.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a developer is just that. He is not a graphic designer or copywriter etc...so no matter what way you go you will need to bring in additional resources if you are looking for top shelf results.

The only other advice I would give you is you get what you pay for (in general). A $500 site wont be much.

Best of Luck,
Elliot
 
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MediaMonty

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It depends on what you're trying to build. Most types of websites can be outsourced as long as you're not trying to build the next Facebook or Dropbox. Even if you are trying to build something that's a little more innovative, you can look for a programmer and give him a percentage of the profits.

If you got a quote of $500, I'll assume that you're trying to build something small. I would say outsourcing is the way to go, just make sure you shop around and make sure you get the best price.
 

fierce86

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ok

here is the start of the basic website so far..i don't know how to add the actual forum or video submission stuff or shopping cart etc so this guy in iran will do it for about 100 bucks no matter how intricate. I bet if I asked for a facebook he'd do it too. lol. 100 bucks.

I'm thinking of getting the forum and the main things on the site going to generate traffic so I can start asking people on the site what they want cuz askdatabase.com has been crappy so far. =(
 

gabrielpark

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You don't need to learn even "basic" programming for a site like the one you're describing because it doesn't seem all that intricate and all of the software that you need already exists. You need to research the software that you need to run a site like that and hire someone who can install and integrate the appropriate software on a server for you. Wikipedia is a great place to learn what you need to study, (forum software, jquery, shopping cart software) and I would learn *some* php and mysql, but you don't need to be an expert. Actually, what you might want to study (google) is called "the lamp platform" - linux, apache, mysql, and php. Vbulletin is the most common forum software and there are many plugins and extensions that do the things you've described.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
 

BrucetonGuy

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I personally had to bring on a partner in my business (at 20%) because I have no idea when it comes to programming. I have taken the time to read and learn but it just isn't coming to me. I don't think that it is a bad thing to have a partner (someone who knows what they are doing) to help better your product/service and who is able to develop your idea (with creative input). I gave up some control but I think my product will be 10x's better because I did. If I hadn't, with my programming skills, the site would look like crap and would not function the way that I would want. Just my opinion. THanks!
 

fierce86

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I'll definitely try to learn those basic programming skills if I can find time. I'm also learning animation so I can add cool animations to the site to make it interesting, advertise my site with it, and promote my movies on my site using the traffic that I'll generate.

THe only thing I don't like is losing control over the production of the site by having someone else do it. But it's ok I'll be in contact with them on skype and I can always find someone else. one thing someone warned me about is that the person who makes the site can always hack into the site and get private information if they made it so I have to be careful.

I'll be posting pictures of the drawn out webpages I'm creating right now soon. The part where you post your movies is going to be like a pandora page where the movies scroll across the page and are based on genre and if you want to download the movie you have to pay the person. Just like the page where you buy and sell 3d models. My only concern is that I'm not niching enough and trying to do too many things like forum, posting movies, and seling models. There are sites out there that specialize in just these areas.

Also my approach is to not finish my market reserach and just get the site up and running first. I can always tweak it later. I mean its not like i'm selling a product and I'm purchasing 4000 wholesale widgets that I'll be stuck with. I figure I'll make the site just to get traffic going initially and be able to get feedback and change it as I go along. I don't like overly planning and being too careful when there isn't much at stake. But would it be too hard for the programmer to tweak it later ..so would it be better to just finalize my plans and then have it made?

just added my first super short animated clip on the theater section just to test it out.haha

ps i downloaded a bunch of phpbb files to try to add to wordpress but i couldn't so it seems a lot harder than i thought and you need to know what you're doing..i have like 40 phpbb scripts to add like to make a shopping cart, forum, etc..i don't know if thats enough to make it with on my own
 
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snowbank

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I advocate that you learn yourself; here is why.

There is no shortcut to the event. If you don't pay homage to process, you will, in one way or another, suffer a less than rewarding event.

I see this a lot after people read MJ's book. You're regurgitating what MJ says and not using logic in applying it to what they're asking. What you're talking about is irrelevant to the question, you're just quoting stuff from MJ.

I started learning programming concepts and techniques over 7 years ago and I am still learning. It is a commitment to lifestyle of continual learning. You will always be learning, adapting and changing.

If you were instead learning, and adapting to making money, you'd be rich right now.

How much time have you spent coding relative to making money?
How many pieces of code have you written in 7 years?
How much money has that brought you in 7 years?

If you reversed the time spent on each, the results on each would probably be reversed as well.


Take any successful product or web startup .... how many of them are ran by people who paid someone else to build it?

Bill Gates? No. (Microsoft)
Steve Jobs? No. (Apple)
Mark Zuckerberg? No. (facebook)
Biz Stone? No. (Twitter)
Drew Houston? No. (DropBox)

This is not logical at all. fierce86 is not building the next google, he's trying to learn how to start a business and make money with it. you do not need to learn how to program to make money. can you, obviously. every programmer seems to think that's the only way how to do it though, because they don't know other ways. looking at the incorrect variables and assuming they apply to everything will crush you long term as an aspiring entrepreneur. you need to be looking at the correct variables and become logical or you should not be trying to make money. it will be a waste of time.
 
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Anon3587x

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I do see your point that learning how to program doesn't mean squat when it comes to making money, sometimes I have thought that maybe I was wasting my time learning how to code; but in the end, I'm still young and I don't really have to rush anything.

Learning how to program taught me to think with perfect logic and I'm glad I spent all the time I have learning the trade. I think it's cool I can look at a long string of code and understand what everything is doing. I feel that instead of teaching students math to think logically, they should just teach them how to computer program.

Besides, if I want to startup a project I don't have to save money and go all-in just to find out it was a bad idea. As of right now, I can buy a domain and create a few quick pages, create a database and see what happens for a total of 15$
 
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pro

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This is more of a financial question. Unless you have enough capital/creativity to hire 3 programmers for the time it takes to be profitable (in case the 2 others can't do it - you have backups), it might make sense to learn it yourself or get enough capital to make this possible
 
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snowbank

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I can buy a domain and create a few quick pages, create a database and see what happens for a total of 15$

That won't have anything to do about the site making money or not.

If someone's goal is to cheaply get up any ideas they have and not have to spend a dollar on programming and their goal is not to make as much money as they can, but to cheaply put websites up on the internet, of course they should learn to program. well, they could try to give away equity first, but, since they won't know how to make money they'll have to trick a programmer into thinking they know how to make money before getting them to agree to an equity deal.

99.999999% of those people never learn to make money because they don't have the correct business model up, or if they do, the model is flawed and they see the incorrect variables on successful entrepreneurs websites and assume those made them successful, so they design the model with those incorrect variables and wonder why it isn't working. they also wonder why no one is visiting their site.
 

fierce86

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this animation forum is good I want something like this but with more bells and whistles. Also notice how many products hes selling catering to animation ..it's such a great fastlane idea to start selling your own animation products ( like gloves and things to help your wrist not get hurt) once your site gets traffic and people know and trust you and need your product. I will definitely keep looking at the business model and fixing it if it isn't making money and tweaking it. But I'm not gonna wait 1 year just to get started

Ergonomics | Animation Forum
 

theBiz

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I outsourced my project, i tried many times and failed, i have a good team now its very easy, once i saw things were working out i put an ad on craigslist for a tutor to teach me and ive been going a few times a week and learning a lot. Its not rocket science, don't wait to learn how to code, because it will probably suck anyway, get someone good to do it and hope you learn how to code before you lose control if you even do. Also i built something very complex and is very dynamic, has lots of functions and operations, ive had no problems with the programmers.

My friend is a millionaire from his online business (he does not code and outsources to almost 50 people for almost 10 years now) so one day he said just use one of these guys.... so i did. Outsourcing" is too broad of a term, some Indian guy who just learned coding is going to suck, get a real team, pay a little more, and you should be able to build whatever you want. My learning curve was expensive because i got burnt so many times but now its easy to find good guys.

Note: one of my big problems was i got excited and always jumped into too fast, if they can not show you previous work that surpasses what you want to do simply walk away, they will all say oh i can etc, no... show me something similar to what i want, and see if they are making money...
 
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Anon3587x

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That won't have anything to do about the site making money or not.

It's about knowing your business inside and out, understanding what you're employees and software are capable of from first hand experience. The most successful websites created, were made by people who were programmers. I really don't see how you can argue that it isn't a good allocation of time.

The first website I ever made was created using wordpress layouts, and all the feelings of helplessness and not knowing how the heck anything worked was what really inspired me to study coding.

99.999999% of those people never learn to make money because they don't have the correct business model up, or if they do, the model is flawed and they see the incorrect variables on successful entrepreneurs websites and assume those made them successful, so they design the model with those incorrect variables and wonder why it isn't working. . they also wonder why no one is visiting their site.

Not sure if this was indirectly aimed at me, but for the record I have an ebook I wrote that is doing relatively well and I've even made a few thousand bucks creating websites for people. So yes, I'm a intermediate programmer and I do know how to make money with websites. I also feel more confident and secure knowing I don't have to rely on anybody else to change something if all goes to hell.

I think what we are really debating is the best order in which you should learn things.
 
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snowbank

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It's about knowing your business inside and out, understanding what you're employees and software are capable of from first hand experience. The most successful websites created, were made by people who were programmers. I really don't see how you can argue that it isn't a good allocation of time.

you're focused on the wrong variables.

I think what we are really debating is the best order in which you should learn things.

no one's debating. some people are incorrectly convinced that they should program first to be able to make money. there's certain business models where people should learn to program. every other week when someone posts a thread here wondering if they should learn to code to start their business, they usually shouldn't.

In my case; I'm learning how to make money and program at the same time.

There's nothing wrong with attempting to do both. You won't learn how to make money for a substantially longer time because you think that you should program. If you're okay with that, and you like programming, go for it.
 

damien275x

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Hi - I am 22 and I work full time as a Web Application Developer

I still outsource a lot of my development work on pet projects. Why? I'm lazy, and I figure I do it 40 hours a week, that's enough!!! I think you should learn anyway - because that way, someone else can build the majority of the project and you can touch it up and tweak it yourself in the future.

The advantage of being a technical person when liaising with developers overseas is that I can be extremely specific and I know exactly what I want out of the application, how I want it setup and structured underneath. That comes across in the communication process, and they know that they can't take shortcuts and throw a piece of shit together because I am going to know! I get better quality work as a result.

If you don't want to learn coding, that's fine, but at the very least learn the terminology. If you use the lingo they are going to assume you know what you're talking about and they won't screw you over, because believe me - there are a lot of shonky developers out there that just throw pieces together and the guy on the other end is none the wiser, until much later on when they hire someone else to make changes!!

Also, you should be as detailed and specific as you possibly can. Spell it out not just with words, but images, videos, screen shots. Lots and lots of them. If you are absoultley specific about everything, and leave nothing out, you will generally please the developers on the other end, get better quality work, and have a better relationship with them. there's nothing more frustrating when some dickhead friend comes to me with vague plans, I put it together, and they go nup.. wrong, I want this here and that there. TELL ME BEFORE I F*ckING START DAMMIT!

LOL.

Good luck mate!
 
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fierce86

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k. thanks for the responses guys. lets not turn this into a debate thread its a waste of time. So I'm definitely going to learn some basic programming stuff eventually but to begin with due to lack of time and cheap effective outsourcing I can trust ( family friend) I can have some cool stuff added to the site. I wonder if it's worth sitting in web design classes and programming classes..eventually probably... I'm really glad I'm doing this business..I don't want to be required to work 16 hr work days in animation answering to someone else if I don't want too with stress of deadlines..this business allows me to freelance my work, do it at my own leasure, and start my own animation company someday with the profits so I'm not the worker but the boss =)
 

snowbank

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lets not turn this into a debate thread its a waste of time.

haha. you realize this was the 75th thread on this subject right?(that is wasting people's time op) also, if someone did bring up logical points to debate, you realize as the op that'd be exactly what you would be looking for, right? #whysoillogical
 
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Anon3587x

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haha. you realize this was the 75th thread on this subject right?(that is wasting people's time op) also, if someone did bring up logical points to debate, you realize as the op that'd be exactly what you would be looking for, right? #whysoillogical

We know the OP is a newbie who doesn't use the search bar; but you brought up this concept of 'correct variables' that I would like you to expand on if you wouldn't mind.
 

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