Do you want to do it the EASY way, or the HARD way?

[biophase]

Great thanks. So normally, when you identify a potential product you would buy at least 100pcs to test on FBA?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It depends on price point, but I chose 100 because it's a number the suppliers can wrap their heads around.

 

[proper]

Can you tell us how you do this? I searched online but got many conflicting information.

It depends on the category and products you sell. That's why you find some conflicting information online.

Normally you can find this setting in the "Offer" tab of the listing editing page. Search for "Max Order Quantity".
If this setting is not there, you can look at the "More Details" tab and search for "Maximum" or "Max", it normally should be there.
If you still can't find the setting, it means you may need to update the listing using the excel sheet template and change the settings.

 

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[biophase]

You mentioned not to go through the manufacturer when creating your brand because they may take your idea. If not going through the manufacturer to private label, who do you go through? I want to ship directly from manufacturer to FBA.

Can you quote where I said that? I don't remember writing that but maybe I meant it in a different context.

 

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[YMCMB]

Amazing info here. Thank you.

 

[Madhu]

Awesome post. I think the 'easy' niches advocated by courses are bubbles. There's too many people jumping into them. A lot of them have too much hope and not enough business sense and so will happily sell their product at a loss until they die and give up. But it doesn't seem there's any shortage of people.

Well for me, it was more of a brand recognition product. Sold cheap, no profit but got our name out.

This is interesting, as I always assumed that Amazon customers wouldn't buy on brand recognition? I can see them buy a big name brand, but I thought a new brand would be too small to have impact. Nice to see that I am wrong.

(I am glossing over the back and forth sample creation, changes in product, etc... All the hard stuff that it takes to make or improve a product)

Now that you've made and improved a product (rather than using an existing one without improvements) is there any danger that another company could contact your manufacturer and profit of your hard work?

 

[BlakeIC]

Care to share your story as to why?

Seller Account: Twin brother (unknowningly to me) got suspended from AZ like 7 years ago. I signed up for AZ and got suspended I guess because I had the same last name and address, support was brain dead and wasn't of any help. To make matters worse I was also scammed buy my 2nd buyer for $100

Buyer Account: I have no idea why for this one, received a notice a couple weeks ago stating my buyer account is now permanently suspended because it was linked to an already suspended BUYER account. Never had any buyer account suspended neither my twin

 

[TKDTyler]

The easy way is to find something on the AMZ checklist, slap a brand name on it and toss it into a slew of Amazon competition. Then follow their step by step guide with giveaways, discounts, reviews, etc... It's easy to following their process. But be prepared to fight for your sales every step of the way.

The hard way is to tackle a tougher product. One that AMZsellers would absolutely avoid mainly because they are lazy, not underfunded. Pick a product that other people would say no way too. It's harder to get it started, but you are almost guaranteed no competition in the future. It doesn't mean lower margins. My example just happen to have low margins.

I'll give you another example that I'm working on right now. There is a product that 3 sellers currently sell. I ordered this product from 3 of the sellers and as I suspected they were all exactly the same product. All of them had the same issues and problems.

I contacted a bunch of factories. Many of them made this exact same product. MOQ of 100, $6/pc. So right here I have a decision to make. Do I go the easy way or hard way?

Easy Way

I could be seller #4 on this product. Super easy, I could just spend $600 and these units are headed my way. I can be selling this on Amazon 2 weeks from today. Problem is that I have the exact same product as everyone else. I could outrank these guys with AMZ strategies, but I know that I'm selling the same thing.

Hard Way

If I wanted to modify this product. The MOQ becomes 1000 units, $6/pc and tooling costs of $1600. It will take me probably 2 months to get this product going and I'll need to spend $7200 up front. But when my product hits Amazon, it will look different and be much improved over the 3 sellers currently selling. My product will rise to the top organically, no giveaways needed. It will also stay there. In 2 months, I'll rock their AMZ world. They'll probably contact their supplier and ask if they can get this "improved" version. Of course, they would not be able to (unless my factory backstabs me) without the 1000 MOQ and tooling costs.

* side note: My product will have name brand name built into the new mold. So if the factory screws me, the other seller's product will have my brand name on it. I'd have a much easier time filing a claim against them.

* side note: You never want to improve a product without adding your brand into it. Else you may have just paid the tooling and R&D for every other AMZseller.

Do you think the other 3 sellers will go spend $7200 to compete with me? I doubt it. They will just carry on spending $600 per 100 pcs. They won't even try to compete because they aren't willing or don't have the funds to improve the product.

Hey Bio! Another great thread.

Quick question: I am currently working with a manufacturer on making variations to an existing product as well and am thinking of ways to make sure my product is able to be bought/sold by other buyers. With that said, my item is made of wood, so there are no molds to have my brand name in.

My modifications are pretty simple, but they solve 90% of the complaints most people have about the other 10-20 sellers.

What would you do to protect your item in this situation? I can PM you my item/modifications if it would help give more clarity.

 

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[Greyson F]

@biophase I know you touched up on this once or twice in your 2015 e-commerce AMA, but I'd really like to know more about manufacturing improvements.

You mentioned that some take CAD drawings and some take regular pencil sketches. You also mentioned, molds, tools and equipment, etc.

So, let's take for example product X that has production costs of between $15 and $20, and let's assume its not an electronic or other liability.

Could you walk me through the big processes and expectations for making improvements to Product X? If I have two possible improvements on it, Improvement Y and Z, then what are some usual costs that come with establishing those improvements.

Overall, have you ever run into manufacturers that you want to make improvements for a REALLY compelling product, but their prices are so absolutely expensive that you decide to move on?

 

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[NuclearPuma]

This thread gave me another great idea.

I'm working on an invention and was looking at other products to sell in order to have more of a brand. Well I found a really generic very popular product and it is readily available on alibaba.

I think what I will do is toss this generic product as a "freebie" with the purchase of my new invention. My invention obviously no one else is selling nor will they be able to sell it unless they design it again themselves (and if I get patent pending).

I think selling my invention and including the freebie will be offering value no other sellers are offering. Freebies cost is really low (I see selling for 3-4x markup on Amazon price vs Alibaba price). Include them at cost as a "freebie" with my invention should be a no brainer for the customers.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[mirylo]

The easy way is to find something on the AMZ checklist, slap a brand name on it and toss it into a slew of Amazon competition. Then follow their step by step guide with giveaways, discounts, reviews, etc... It's easy to following their process. But be prepared to fight for your sales every step of the way.

The hard way is to tackle a tougher product. One that AMZsellers would absolutely avoid mainly because they are lazy, not underfunded. Pick a product that other people would say no way too. It's harder to get it started, but you are almost guaranteed no competition in the future. It doesn't mean lower margins. My example just happen to have low margins.

I'll give you another example that I'm working on right now. There is a product that 3 sellers currently sell. I ordered this product from 3 of the sellers and as I suspected they were all exactly the same product. All of them had the same issues and problems.

I contacted a bunch of factories. Many of them made this exact same product. MOQ of 100, $6/pc. So right here I have a decision to make. Do I go the easy way or hard way?

Easy Way

I could be seller #4 on this product. Super easy, I could just spend $600 and these units are headed my way. I can be selling this on Amazon 2 weeks from today. Problem is that I have the exact same product as everyone else. I could outrank these guys with AMZ strategies, but I know that I'm selling the same thing.

Hard Way

If I wanted to modify this product. The MOQ becomes 1000 units, $6/pc and tooling costs of $1600. It will take me probably 2 months to get this product going and I'll need to spend $7200 up front. But when my product hits Amazon, it will look different and be much improved over the 3 sellers currently selling. My product will rise to the top organically, no giveaways needed. It will also stay there. In 2 months, I'll rock their AMZ world. They'll probably contact their supplier and ask if they can get this "improved" version. Of course, they would not be able to (unless my factory backstabs me) without the 1000 MOQ and tooling costs.

* side note: My product will have name brand name built into the new mold. So if the factory screws me, the other seller's product will have my brand name on it. I'd have a much easier time filing a claim against them.

* side note: You never want to improve a product without adding your brand into it. Else you may have just paid the tooling and R&D for every other AMZseller.

Do you think the other 3 sellers will go spend $7200 to compete with me? I doubt it. They will just carry on spending $600 per 100 pcs. They won't even try to compete because they aren't willing or don't have the funds to improve the product.

That's awesome. Thanks! What do you think about selling internationally on other Amazon marketplaces?

 

[Ian O'Bryant]

Awesome thread, saw several articles talking about selling on Amazon and decided to check if the Fastlane Forum had anything on it. Surprise, surprise, here it is. Great advice for anyone misguided by the easy way.

 

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[Jake]

thanks! Wonder if it's possible to first ship the products to Europe, then to US and still keep cost down. Something I have to research.

Do you know if it's possible to brand and then directly ship to Amazon from the manufacturer?

It's possible but will be costly. Extra shipping, additional taxes

I would avoid ever showing your manufacturer where you are selling unles you have a defendable patent on the product and can be the only seller in the US.

Amazon is getting into the freight forwarding business to cut out the middle men and supply manufacturers with a route directly to FBA. It's going to be easy enough to get onto Amazon, better not make it easier for them to understand your sales volume.

If your manufacturer is branding the item for you it doesn't take much effort to figure out where you're selling.

Make it in your manufacturers interest not to compete. I've had mine remove items from their webpage.

 

[Oztrepreneur]

The hard way is to tackle a tougher product. One that AMZsellers would absolutely avoid mainly because they are lazy, not underfunded.

Bio are there any examples that would spring to mind. I am trying to look for products that I can improve and that also are difficult / restrictive in some sense as a barrier to competition entering. We always read keep it simple (no moving parts etc) but seems that may be no longer the best option for brand longevity! Always great to get your perspective.

 

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[biophase]

How do you see top sellers ? Do you have to make a seller account to see?

Don't think so. You just click to see the top 100. Click by the ranking of any Amazon product.

 

[doinkdedoink]

Here is a great example of an Easy product. Who here wishes that they are in this niche right now?

I wanted to get one and can't figure out if any are actually any good.

Look through these listings and tell me which product you would buy? How does the public choose? Does any one stand out in this sea of same products, same photos, tons of fake reviews and giveaways.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=kaisr&rh=i:aps,k:kaisr

They all look like a gagglefuck of bad copy and fake reviews, I am curious what you would do to improve these if you were to sell them? I am not interested in selling them but it's nice to have an actual product that I could see your feedback on.

Off the top of my head I could see maybe adding a puncture repair kit? Other then that I see a whole lot of complaints about how they don't stay inflated for more then an hour, so would you contact the manufacture and try to change the material it's made of, or using different liners for the inside so it doesn't leak?

I can see how this post may come off as me trying to get your advice so I can implement your ideas, but I am just trying to see how your thought process works. Thanks!

 

[MakeMoreMoves]

Here is a great example of an Easy product. Who here wishes that they are in this niche right now?

I wanted to get one and can't figure out if any are actually any good.

Look through these listings and tell me which product you would buy? How does the public choose? Does any one stand out in this sea of same products, same photos, tons of fake reviews and giveaways.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=kaisr&rh=i:aps,k:kaisr

Try garlic presses and lemon squeezers those are better

 

[Jean-Pierre]

So yesterday I finally shipped 1000 units of this product to Amazon. I made this post on Dec 26 2015, it is Sep 1 2016 and I FINALLY got this product delivered and on its way to FBA. This is an example of how long it can take to make your own product vs. a slapping a logo on off the shelf product.

Great post and love it even more because you started it a couple of days after Christmas!

That "FINALLY" feeling of FINALLY completing something you've spent months CREATING is the best feeling in the world.

Look forward to hearing how well the launch went

 

[biophase]

Bio,

Last year I designed a product that was much improved from any examples I could find. It is an average house hold kitchen item. I did some research and it looks like my improvement was partially covered under a US Patent that I found, and I didn't know how to continue.

In this case, would you even bother caring about that potential danger, or is that a massive red flag?

I could find only one other example of the product that came even close to what the patent covered, the rest were vastly different, yet the patent still covered some of my changes.

Sorry I didn't see this post until today. I really don't know what to tell you. To me, I would probably avoid it and find a different product. But it really depends on the product's potential.

 

[Paul David]

Hi @biophase i have a question if you don't mind answering.
I have identified a product/s that i know are selling already on Amazon.com but with little competition and profit margins are good.
I have found the supplier and got the quote which i'm happy with. My plan was to buy 5pcs of each (2 items total) and send them to Amazon to be fulfilled by them as a test rather than diving straight in and buying 500pcs of each.

I asked the factory for a quote for 5pcs and they replied with this:

Generally, our customer only need 1pcs of XXX with or without XXX to test. Are you sure you need 5pcs of each? Total 10pcs?
If so, the express fare will cost a lot. Also, we need to receive the sample fare USD30/PCS, and need 1-2 weeks to finish.
If you only need 1 pcs of each total 2pcs. We can send you soon.
For the package, we can do the mass production as your request. But for samples, the package is in bulk, do you mind it?

What would you suggest in this situation? My long term plan is to let the market decide whether the product is worth pursuing rather than jumping in head first. I don't even care if i don't make a profit on these test orders because of that.

 

[anthonyseoul]

Any good online course recommendations?

 

[Iammelissamoore]

Well I hope you can see the difference in work. With the second product, you do all the hardwork upfront and then let it sell. With the first product, you do the easy stuff up front and then spend the rest of your time trying to sell it.

I much rather do the hard work first.

Based on my own experiences, I too am quite happy with doing ALL hard work up front, in whatever I must, and then let good things flow the rest of time. Set a SOLID foundation in ALL we do and then just watch growth!

 

[Omni]

Wow, beautiful post @biophase! Thanks for sharing your case studies!

 

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[BlakeIC]

I am glad there is someone who realizes that AZ is being flooded with new sellers on items as you described

Not like it matters for me though, i am already blacklisted on amazon in terms of being a seller and buyer

 

[juan917]

I am glad there is someone who realizes that AZ is being flooded with new sellers on items as you described

Not like it matters for me though, i am already blacklisted on amazon in terms of being a seller and buyer

Care to share your story as to why?

 

[Madhu]

Thanks, really eye opening advice.

 

[csalvato]

The easy way is to find something on the AMZ checklist, slap a brand name on it and toss it into a slew of Amazon competition. Then follow their step by step guide with giveaways, discounts, reviews, etc... It's easy to following their process. But be prepared to fight for your sales every step of the way.

The hard way is to tackle a tougher product. One that AMZsellers would absolutely avoid mainly because they are lazy, not underfunded. Pick a product that other people would say no way too. It's harder to get it started, but you are almost guaranteed no competition in the future. It doesn't mean lower margins. My example just happen to have low margins.

I'll give you another example that I'm working on right now. There is a product that 3 sellers currently sell. I ordered this product from 3 of the sellers and as I suspected they were all exactly the same product. All of them had the same issues and problems.

I contacted a bunch of factories. Many of them made this exact same product. MOQ of 100, $6/pc. So right here I have a decision to make. Do I go the easy way or hard way?

Easy Way

I could be seller #4 on this product. Super easy, I could just spend $600 and these units are headed my way. I can be selling this on Amazon 2 weeks from today. Problem is that I have the exact same product as everyone else. I could outrank these guys with AMZ strategies, but I know that I'm selling the same thing.

Hard Way

If I wanted to modify this product. The MOQ becomes 1000 units, $6/pc and tooling costs of $1600. It will take me probably 2 months to get this product going and I'll need to spend $7200 up front. But when my product hits Amazon, it will look different and be much improved over the 3 sellers currently selling. My product will rise to the top organically, no giveaways needed. It will also stay there. In 2 months, I'll rock their AMZ world. They'll probably contact their supplier and ask if they can get this "improved" version. Of course, they would not be able to (unless my factory backstabs me) without the 1000 MOQ and tooling costs.

* side note: My product will have name brand name built into the new mold. So if the factory screws me, the other seller's product will have my brand name on it. I'd have a much easier time filing a claim against them.

* side note: You never want to improve a product without adding your brand into it. Else you may have just paid the tooling and R&D for every other AMZseller.

Do you think the other 3 sellers will go spend $7200 to compete with me? I doubt it. They will just carry on spending $600 per 100 pcs. They won't even try to compete because they aren't willing or don't have the funds to improve the product.

Thank you for the insights and thoughtful advice in your reply.

 

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[stepstone]

The easy way is to find something on the AMZ checklist, slap a brand name on it and toss it into a slew of Amazon competition. Then follow their step by step guide with giveaways, discounts, reviews, etc... It's easy to following their process. But be prepared to fight for your sales every step of the way.

The hard way is to tackle a tougher product. One that AMZsellers would absolutely avoid mainly because they are lazy, not underfunded. Pick a product that other people would say no way too. It's harder to get it started, but you are almost guaranteed no competition in the future. It doesn't mean lower margins. My example just happen to have low margins.

I'll give you another example that I'm working on right now. There is a product that 3 sellers currently sell. I ordered this product from 3 of the sellers and as I suspected they were all exactly the same product. All of them had the same issues and problems.

I contacted a bunch of factories. Many of them made this exact same product. MOQ of 100, $6/pc. So right here I have a decision to make. Do I go the easy way or hard way?

Easy Way

I could be seller #4 on this product. Super easy, I could just spend $600 and these units are headed my way. I can be selling this on Amazon 2 weeks from today. Problem is that I have the exact same product as everyone else. I could outrank these guys with AMZ strategies, but I know that I'm selling the same thing.

Hard Way

If I wanted to modify this product. The MOQ becomes 1000 units, $6/pc and tooling costs of $1600. It will take me probably 2 months to get this product going and I'll need to spend $7200 up front. But when my product hits Amazon, it will look different and be much improved over the 3 sellers currently selling. My product will rise to the top organically, no giveaways needed. It will also stay there. In 2 months, I'll rock their AMZ world. They'll probably contact their supplier and ask if they can get this "improved" version. Of course, they would not be able to (unless my factory backstabs me) without the 1000 MOQ and tooling costs.

* side note: My product will have name brand name built into the new mold. So if the factory screws me, the other seller's product will have my brand name on it. I'd have a much easier time filing a claim against them.

* side note: You never want to improve a product without adding your brand into it. Else you may have just paid the tooling and R&D for every other AMZseller.

Do you think the other 3 sellers will go spend $7200 to compete with me? I doubt it. They will just carry on spending $600 per 100 pcs. They won't even try to compete because they aren't willing or don't have the funds to improve the product.

Super valuable story and advise.
Do you mind to clarify a little more on "adding your brand into it"? I mean how exactly would you set a barrier for competitors to get your improved design without investing a lot? Thanks

 

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[Canuker]

On more question @biophase - As for your product AAA, why would you not sell it at-cost, recoup the money and invest in something innovative? This is another of my strategies. A fad product is fine - as long as you ensure that you can get out at-cost. Here is how the math works:

You find a AMZ perfect product with not much competition.

You buy product for, lets say, $10,000
You profit about $6000 after giveaways. You got $16,000 in the bank

Now you buy product again form $10,000
You profit another $6000. You got $22,000 in the bank.

You enthusiastically buy product for another $15,000 thinking you are gonna bank even more.
Competition hits. Prices are driven down. You see that the herd has caught on to this product and the sheep are coming your way. But, you know that you can ALWAYS sell out your stock at-cost (because of the obvious price advantage).

So you sell out at a slight loss or at cost. Lets say you make back #13,000. So in total you now have #25,000 in your bank account (you started with #10,000). If you can find a product with enough sales velocity to achieve all of this within 6 months, you are effectively multiplying you money 2.5 times in 6 months.

Now you try to find another product that you can repeat this with. And, also, in-case you want to make innovations/improvements to the same products and enter the field, that is also possible!

Ttis is the strategy I am following right now. And don't get me wrong - this will not be a lasting business. It is a form of hustle until I have a big enough warchest to create an actual sustainable business.

This is how I've been looking at it as well. Get in before there is too much competition, profit, then sell at cost once it gets too flooded (if need be)

Curious to see Bio's answer.

 

[Rawr]

Good thread bio. Small effective swings, multiple times.

 

[Greyson F]

I can't answer this because the process is different for every product. It's impossible to answer or predict the cost of an improvement or modification on a hypothetical. This is just one of those areas where you need to go at it yourself and figure it out.

I figured as much. And tbh I have the capacity to do effective research on this question. I've just been preoccupied with other components, so that is just slacking on my part.

I've also been taking notes on the way that you do research. Our methods are similar, especially since I don't use tracking software or Saas for Amazon. I simply go through the process of manual product/niche research and branch from Amazon's Keyword Suggestion to other ideas.

On one of my products, I have a particular question: Some of the improvements that I've found from Review data could be done by your process of simply making a manufacturing customization, while other improvements seem like it could be done via purchasing the raw ingredients for the product and customizing it myself (it isn't a very difficult production process at all).

Would you recommend that? As in, would it affect prices and lessen the "stealability" of the modification in your opinion?