Well here it is... My waterfront real estate site

[Shades]

I think I said in my intro to this site that I was working on a waterfront real estate site as my first attempt at a online business. I was skeptical to say what the site was but I realized that it doesn't really matter. Id much rather get the constructive criticism then worry about more people entering the space.

Ok, the site is HomeOnTheWaterfront.com

The domain is pretty long isnt it?

I havent made a cent on the site to this point. Up until yesterday I wasnt charging for ads since the traffic is nowhere near enough to charge to advertise to. I mainly was focused on getting some agents posting ads on the site just to get content on there.

Now im just trying to get the rank up with SEO. I tryed out Chris from Warrior Forum for a month. He just finished and ive already seen a jump in the 3 keywords I gave him. They were all unranked in google and now are all in the top 200 or so. Its a start.

Any feedback is appreciated.

 

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[wade1mil]

I like it! The name is a bit long, but I think it's okay because it says exactly what your website does. Honestly, there are only two that stand out to me. One, the graphics and general layout on your site are clean, but your logo seems a little cheap to me. The other is very minor, but I like to see prices with a comma: $123,456 rather than $123456. Of course, that could be a problem I need to change Awesome job so far!

 

[458]

Normally i would disagree with your domain but its actually pretty catchy. Goodluck!

 

[Shades]

Thanks for the feedback.

The logo I just made quickly in photoshop, and im obviously no expert in graphic design. Do you think its bad enough that it needs changed immediately?

 

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[wade1mil]

Thanks for the feedback.

The logo I just made quickly in photoshop, and im obviously no expert in graphic design. Do you think its bad enough that it needs changed immediately?

I think it's more important to market your business. Change your logo as soon as you have time.

 

[Vigilante]

Did you build this web site from scratch, or did you use an existing template? Site looks good. Simple, clean, easy to navigate.

 

[DeletedUser2]

3 Rules.

Here is a copy I have taped to my desk.

I follow it.

 

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[snowbank]

3 Rules.

Here is a copy I have taped to my desk.

I follow it.

#3 might be good for some business models, but will be flawed for many others.

For me personally, just about every business I've started, #3 would be flawed and avoided, and would cost money in the long and short run.

note: I don't necessarily think it's bad(for many it will be good to focus on this), it's just often going to be suboptimal, and sometimes literally the opposite of what a lot of business models should be doing

 

[Blacktye6000]

Great site. I agree with Wade, I'd like to see comma's as well. Also I see that you use the blue backdrop for the featured properties, I would just tag the listing "featured" in yellow under the image. Then I would alternate the listings with the blue and white backdrop. Other than that I think its a great site. I surf real estate site often and it very user friendly.

 

[deepestblue]

Looks great! Would agree with the above, strongly recommend swapping out the logo. Other than that, very clean and a nice site.

 

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[DeletedUser2]

#3 might be good for some business models, but will be flawed for many others.

For me personally, just about every business I've started, #3 would be flawed and avoided, and would cost money in the long and short run.

note: I don't necessarily think it's bad(for many it will be good to focus on this), it's just often going to be suboptimal, and sometimes literally the opposite of what a lot of business models should be doing

for the experienced yes, you could be right. but for many, they start doing SEO ect way before finding out if the KW is really going to work in thier market. and could spend 6 months climbing to the top of a SEO heap only to find out the KW is not going to make them money.

I think its important to know that you can get in front of the traffic, AND get feedback on your product/service BEFORE spending lots of time trying to drive MORE traffic.


For the experienced, it still helps to think, Can I get in front of the traffic I need, Before trying to optimize.

That is how I take it. its just a good reminder for me to make sure there is a market, a need, and a product for that market, before I blow it up and try to get all the traffic in the world. its saved my but a few times

 

[Chuferd]

Very nice site. Very professional. No doubt it will be a success

 

[Anon3587x]

I like it. Good job

 

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[BeachBoy]

get a logo from 99designs.com

it will be worth the $ IMO.

otherwise good looking site!!

 

[BeachBoy]

p.s. not sure where you aggregate the data from, but I have loked at vermont and says no listings..

there are dozens, if not hundreds of waterfront listings in VT
(Vermont Lake Champlain Real Estate: Coldwell Banker Islands Realty, the Lakefront Experts)

 

[yveskleinsky]

Overall it looks like a good start. I strongly agree with the comment about adding commas to the price. Something else to consider is that under locations you have a mix of Countries and cities--that threw me off as I was scrolling down to try and find "United States" and then realized that the options were mixed. On a side note, a pet peeve of mine with websites is when they offer a category to choose from but then there is nothing in there. If you don't have listings in other Countries, I would hold off on having them be an option for people to choose as getting the message to select again can get really old really fast and people (at least I would) leave quickly.

Great job overall, and I hope you keep up posted on your lessons learned on this entrepreneurial adventure!

 

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[Shades]

p.s. not sure where you aggregate the data from, but I have loked at vermont and says no listings..

there are dozens, if not hundreds of waterfront listings in VT
(Vermont Lake Champlain Real Estate: Coldwell Banker Islands Realty, the Lakefront Experts)

Im not getting data from anywhere. It will be only ads that the agents themselves pay to put on the site.

 

[Shades]

Overall it looks like a good start. I strongly agree with the comment about adding commas to the price. Something else to consider is that under locations you have a mix of Countries and cities--that threw me off as I was scrolling down to try and find "United States" and then realized that the options were mixed. On a side note, a pet peeve of mine with websites is when they offer a category to choose from but then there is nothing in there. If you don't have listings in other Countries, I would hold off on having them be an option for people to choose as getting the message to select again can get really old really fast and people (at least I would) leave quickly.

Great job overall, and I hope you keep up posted on your lessons learned on this entrepreneurial adventure!

Yea I will have to see how to put the commas in there. As far as the drop down menu, I see your point about that. It will be more annoying now since the sit isnt that populated. I originally made it that was because when a agent lists a property there is a drop down menu like that where they select the state the listing is in.

 

[Shades]

Great site. I agree with Wade, I'd like to see comma's as well. Also I see that you use the blue backdrop for the featured properties, I would just tag the listing "featured" in yellow under the image. Then I would alternate the listings with the blue and white backdrop. Other than that I think its a great site. I surf real estate site often and it very user friendly.

Since you are on other RE sites often do you think my site needs more in depth search features? I liked just the minimum simplicity of the search options but am wondering if that will bother some people used to sites with a more advanced system.

 

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[Blacktye6000]

Since you are on other RE sites often do you think my site needs more in depth search features? I liked just the minimum simplicity of the search options but am wondering if that will bother some people used to sites with a more advanced system.

I like how you have it setup. You could add a "more details" tab after the property is selected, as someone interested in that property would look for those details, ie previous sales price, taxes, association fees, ect.

 

[77startup]

It looks really nice. Have you tried running traffic to it yet?

 

[Shades]

It looks really nice. Have you tried running traffic to it yet?

A month or so ago I used one of those $100 free Adsense coupons. But havent done anything since.

I guess my thoughts were that with this site agents would only pay to list on it if there was consistent traffic to it. I figured my best way of accomplishing that was to get it on the first page of google for some relevant keywords.

 

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[wade1mil]

Since you are on other RE sites often do you think my site needs more in depth search features? I liked just the minimum simplicity of the search options but am wondering if that will bother some people used to sites with a more advanced system.

I would think the more in depth the user is needing to search, the more serious a buyer (or hacker) they are. I like the simple layout as well, but you might add a small "Advanced Search" link that opens more options.

 

[snowbank]

they start doing SEO ect way before finding out if the KW is really going to work in thier market. and could spend 6 months climbing to the top of a SEO heap only to find out the KW is not going to make them money.

If they don't do their research, they shouldn't be spending money. However, if they do their research, and know it's going to be profitable, the short term variance of not making money while they are spending money is an emotional problem many people have, not a logical problem. they are caught in the fear of not trusting their research, and focused on the short term results instead of the long term business.

i agree that entrepreneurs who've experienced success will have an easier time trusting their research than newer entrepreneurs.

I also think many newer people focus on seo or ppc as their main or sole source of traffic because they get caught up in trying to imitate what they see people talking about online, and not realizing it's often not the best way to go. so, many times it's not so much of a 'put money into seo/ppc equation' as it is a 'learn how to market' equation, which they can only get by spending time/money learning. the time/money they spend learning sooner is better than later.

I think its important to know that you can get in front of the traffic, AND get feedback on your product/service BEFORE spending lots of time trying to drive MORE traffic.

100% agree, I don't think people should be just winging stuff without research like a lot of people seem to do.




What it really comes down to research, and then math. The correct formula for people would involve focusing on the long term math though, not the short term math. If they do their research they'll already know what profit to expect. In reference to SEO, they should not expect an immediate ROI since SEO is a bit of a longer term game, therefore if they followed #3 for that they'd be on a much slower path than necessary. Here's an example of a side business I started driven by SEO:



If I had followed #3 I would have waited forever for it to become profitable before putting more money into SEO, which is actually a backwards process if people do their research, since, they're just delaying the inevitable which is making much more money. I'd still only be doing $5k/month on that business waiting for profit if I had followed that, and as a lean business the more you make the profits compound the further you get along, so it actually crushes someone's long term profits by waiting to make profits. Because I didn't wait, now I can scale compounding a much bigger number than if I'd been waiting. If I scale by 4x, then I'm around $100k/month, but if I waited for profit at $5k/month then finally scaled by 4x I'd be lower than where I am already, and it's spewing monthly profits way sooner than if I played a waiting game.

So, it's not that people shouldn't spend money if they aren't profitable, it's that they shouldn't spend money if they don't know what spending that money will do for them long term, which most people struggle with because their ability to pinpoint correct variables is not accurate and so the money goes towards future nonprofitable things spiraling them into the hole further, often because they don't do research ahead of time.

So, imo research + math would cross out #3 completely close to 100% of the time. If people are not going to do research(which I would never recommend), then I'd consider telling them to do #3, but if they aren't doing research I wouldn't recommend they start something.

Also, for many products such as digital products- #3 would be the opposite of what people should be doing since the profits increase substantially as the company sells more, so, not spending money before profitable would not be what people should be doing at all, since sales past a certain point are pure profit.

 

[snowbank]

I havent made a cent on the site to this point. Up until yesterday I wasnt charging for ads since the traffic is nowhere near enough to charge to advertise to.

I would put a lot of work on it before I spent any time trying to monetize.

Now im just trying to get the rank up with SEO. I tryed out Chris from Warrior Forum for a month. He just finished and ive already seen a jump in the 3 keywords I gave him. They were all unranked in google and now are all in the top 200 or so. Its a start.

A start towards what? What's your goal?

I don't think SEO has to be the main marketing method for the site. If it is going to be your strategy, I would be spending a lot more time on SEO than outsourcing 1 low end package to the site.

You're going to get what you put into it.

 

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[DeletedUser2]

So, imo research + math would cross out #3 completely close to 100% of the time. If people are not going to do research(which I would never recommend), then I'd consider telling them to do #3, but if they aren't doing research I wouldn't recommend they start something

Brilliantly stated Sno, for most people however, they don't have the research skills yet. I know it took me 2 yrs of playing around with research before I could enter a market profitability.

I do agree with most of what you said. but I dont take the 3 rules quite so literally. close to profitability? meh, not so much. but some sales, and some baseline numbers great.

For a physical product, I think its good to spend a little money verifying the market. and again, im not talking months I can usually run a test in 3-5 days for under 1K. that's part of my research. real hard numbers with a real sale. and that could included a few split tests also.

the biggest mitigating thing is experience. the more you do this, the quicker and easier it becomes to roll out a product and have it be profitable FAST. the three rules should then be modified to "if you are making less than 5K a month online..." or some other modifier with a threshold of experience.

I think we are splitting hairs... experience vs non experience I still think its a good rule of thumb to roll with.
your experience shows different and both are valuable. good job on your side project also! if you ever want to sell side projects.....

 

[snowbank]

for most people however, they don't have the research skills yet.

agreed

I dont take the 3 rules quite so literally.

I know you don't. Was mainly posting for the people who are looking for cheat sheets to follow, and I think it's important for them to understand if they did follow certain rules, they wouldn't necessarily be doing optimal things as an entrepreneur, they'd be doing things a safe way, which can often be a suboptimal way to operate as an entrepreneur. I notice a lot of the newer posters who have come to the forums after reading MJ's book are looking for some simple things to follow and they'll do that, and not really think much outside of that. The handful of them who could have made it, that's going to cost them millions in the long run because they never stopped to think about what they were doing and analyze why they were doing something a certain way, they just did it because someone told them to. If someone is bad at researching, I agree they shouldn't be throwing a lot of money at something without knowing where it's going to go. I just feel that many people will misunderstand why you have that there, and why they would have that there. Most people trying to learn about money don't understand how to think about money, and I think the ability to think about it for them should come before sets of rules for that purpose. Since, people tend to follow things blindly, without realizing it's a decent rule of thumb for a safety measure as they're starting out to keep them from getting obliterated, but they fail to realize rules to keep them from losing money are substantially different than rules that help them make more money.

experience vs non experience I still think its a good rule of thumb

agree

good job on your side project also! if you ever want to sell side projects.....

thanks. long way to scale first. pretty young project

 

[DeletedUser2]

Since, people tend to follow things blindly, without realizing it's a decent rule of thumb for a safety measure as they're starting out to keep them from getting obliterated, but they fail to realize rules to keep them from losing money are substantially different than rules that help them make more money.

I do think that being an entrepreneur is about breaking alot of rules, and I agree with you for the most part.

but as beginners, sometimes they need a set of rules to get started down the right path, in fact if you were to take MJs book apart, he created a set of criteria, (rule set) and basic parameters for using the rule set to start down a path. sometimes its just getting going that's the most important. learn to break the rules after you have momentum, thats much easier.

Sno Im not really disagreeing with you, I have alot of respect for your perspectives, so let me just add, that you and I are on here to help others, I think its just kind of in us. otherwise we wouldn't even bother, we would just go make more money.

so your rules, my rules, MJ's rules, what ever it takes to get started, and a star to steer by. any good captain will learn to right their own ship later.

D

 

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[Shades]

For this particular site I didnt think paying for traffic would get me sales. Now, im new at this so I may be way off base but let me explain my thinking.

Its for the most part a B2B sale. Im selling agents a chance to put their home in front of my traffic. If the traffic isnt there then theres no reason for them to list on the site. And I dont think paid traffic would suffice. Not to mention wouldnt it cost quite a bit to keep traffic high when your constantly having to pay for it?

For the site to be successful Id think it has to get on the first page of google for multiple keywords to be able to get organic traffic. The agents want to be able to see that the site ranks highly for terms like "lakehouse" etc... words their potential buyers are searching for.

Maybe im misunderstanding and you are just telling me to only test keywords first via paid traffic?

 

[Shades]

Also another question. Does Google always jump you around when your not established? A few months ago when I first kinda start to do very little SEO work I was in the top 30 for a few keywords then after a week or so dropped completely out of the top 1000 for those words. Now just a few days since paying for another SEO package im in the top 20 today for those same keywords.