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Harman

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Saw this news article lauding the success of this couple

This couple retired in their 30s, live off the grid and spend $40,000 a year — CNBC

I know so many people that see this story as the ultimate in success. The headline packs a particularly hollow punch. But the best part, my absolute favorite was this image

1622217165917.png

Talk about living the dream.

I'm trying not to be so much of a naysayer, if this particular lifestyle works for this couple, then power to them.

For me, I think I'd go mad. It looks like they aren't doing ANYTHING but sitting around, patting each other on their backs for 'cutting the cord'. Wouldn't life be so much more meaningful if you were actively providing something, anything, for people whose lives could be marginally improved by your efforts?

Anyways, read this article and noted the reporter gushing over this couples frugality.

"Thanks to their high salaries, Steve and Courtney were able to max out their 401(k) contributions in the years leading up to their retirement. They also slashed their spending, eliminating monthly subscriptions and streamlining their grocery budget. "At one point we were saving 70% of our combined income," Courtney says. They funneled all of the extra savings into a Roth IRA, brokerage account and savings account."
The couple also moved out of their 1,600-square-foot home in Tucson, complete with a swimming pool, and into a 2005 Airstream that they purchased for $42,000 in cash.

Man. Sign me up...
 

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Ah yes, the "optimizing mediocrity" lifestyle which now gets headline treatment at all financial rags.

When the recession and "reset" hits, these people are in for a rude awakening. This is what happens when a ten-year bull market and rising equity prices lobotomizes Slowlaners.

They swapped one dependence (a job) to another (the stock market). Sorry, but this isn't financial independence any more than living underneath a bridge in a cardboard box while eating freely at the local shelter.

What's worse, is the mainstream media and its media sycophants are delusionally calling this "financial independence" because it creates more "savings rats" for the economic religion known as the rat-race. And now I'm betting they will "sell this lifestyle" as an entrepreneurial venture (blogs, books, speaking engagements) and actually try to make "fastlane" type of returns.

I even discuss this a tiny bit in the sample chapters of The Great Rat-Race Escape .

Here's a question for bystanders...

If the stock market lost 50% of its value and stayed there for the next 3 years, would you need to get a job? If yes, you're not financially independent. If you can't spend more than $50 a month at a nice restaurant because of your radical "budget", you're not financially independent.

Funny how the word "financial independence" has lost its meaning...

With this new definition, every 30 year old college graduate that lives with their parents is also financially independent.
 

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Steve and Courtney retired in 2016 and 2017, respectively, with a combined net worth of $870,000. Despite not adding a penny to their investments in the ensuing half-decade, they are now worth about $1.2 million and don’t plan to head back to the office any time soon.

Thats pretty decent net worth given their set up.

I would have picked a better spot though - a nice little surf town in Mexico with some good waves and cold beers.

mexico-best-surfing-spots-barra-de-la-cruz-oaxaca.jpeg

"Perhaps the most drastic change they made was limiting their restaurant budget to $50 per month, a difficult task for Steve, a restaurant aficionado who says he once made a point to visit an eatery a day for a full year."

Okay they lost me here. Just what is the point - this sounds awful. Just set up a small online business that takes like 10 hours a month, move somewhere which is fun on such a cheap budget, and actually enjoy being frugal.

Saving skills 10/10
Imagination 1/10
 

Harman

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Ah yes, the "optimizing mediocrity" lifestyle which now gets headline treatment at all financial rags.

When the recession and "reset" hits, these people are in for a rude awakening.

They swapped one dependence (a job) to another (the stock market). Sorry, but this isn't financial independence and more than living underneath a bridge in a cardboard box while eating freely at the local shelter.

What's worse, is the mainstream media and its media sycophants are delusionally calling this "financial independence" because it creates more "savings rats" for the economic religion known as the rat-race.

I even discuss this a tiny bit in the sample chapters of The Great Rat-Race Escape .

It's funny, I never noticed just how pervasive these mindsets are but after reading TMF and Unscripted , you see them everywhere!

Can't thank you enough for what you've created @MJ DeMarco.

I'm trying to get as much key information that I can use out of these encounters.

It's weird but I look at these articles and examples as motivation to keep me going. It's exactly like seeing some morbidly obese person and using that image when it's 5am and I reeeeeally don't want to go for a run. Picture the fat guy, and getting out the door becomes the easiest thing in the world.
 

Harman

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Thats pretty decent net worth given their set up.

I would have picked a better spot though - a nice little surf town in Mexico with some good waves and cold beers.

View attachment 38175

"Perhaps the most drastic change they made was limiting their restaurant budget to $50 per month, a difficult task for Steve, a restaurant aficionado who says he once made a point to visit an eatery a day for a full year."

What is the point - just set up a small online business that takes like 10 hours a month, move somewhere which is fun on such a cheap budget, and actually enjoy being frugal.

Saving skills 10/10
Imagination 1/10
Love that image. It seems so simple to do, but can you blame them for not knowing there's a better way?

The financial rags out there advocate fiscal frugality and the idea of creating your own business is becoming taboo. @Kak mentions several times in his podcast that to be poor and struggling is popular.

Side note. You're really well travelled and man I love that! Where is this picture from?
 

MJ DeMarco

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W: Let's toast our lifestyle with some champagne!

M: Uh, we don't have any champagne and we can't afford to buy any for this photo-shoot.

W: Damn, you're right. But in a news article about financial independence, shouldn't we splurge and just buy it?

M: No, we didn't budget for champagne -- that's how we're financially free now! We can't break our budget just because a magazine wants us us to.

W: I'll go pump some water from the well -- they'll never know.


M: Yes, great idea!

Woman pumps water and returns filling the champagne flutes with water.

M: Toast darling! Here's to being financially independent!
 

Kak

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It looks like they aren't doing ANYTHING but sitting around, patting each other on their backs for 'cutting the cord'.
Hahahaha! “I know! Let’s be awesome at being poor! That’s how we’ll do it!”

You took the words right out of my mouth. They’re really proud of themselves.

Living in a trailer doesn’t make you cool. It makes you homeless.

Episode 201 of KBRS... maybe... owning these FIRE douchebags.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxuwXczWQC0
 
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Kak

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“Before we got married, I spent a lot of money. I had a supercharged Corvette convertible. I had a brand new Cadillac CTS. I had a Yamaha sportbike. I had all the toys,” he says, noting that they have all since been sold. Now, the couple shares one pickup truck, which they use to pull their Airstream when they travel around the country.”

Oh. My. God. If hell was a personalized experience... Their life would be mine.

:rofl:
 

MJ DeMarco

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“Before we got married, I spent a lot of money. I had a supercharged Corvette convertible. I had a brand new Cadillac CTS. I had a Yamaha sportbike. I had all the toys,” he says, noting that they have all since been sold. Now, the couple shares one pickup truck, which they use to pull their Airstream when they travel around the country.”

It is financial fanaticism in the name of optimizing mediocrity and calling yourself "financially independent."

If you were truly financially free, you wouldn't need to sell your toys.
If you were truly financially free, you wouldn't need to deny yourself dinners at restaurants.
If you were truly financially free, you wouldn't need to deny yourself of virtually any convenience or luxury.
If you were truly financially free, a "budget" wouldn't be in your vocabulary for daily living necessities.

I find it infuriating that someone who has to religiously count pennies and has to deny themselves from every expenditure has the balls to call themselves financially independent -- and the media empowers them.

Stuff like this makes me vomit, but in today's culture, up is down, and down is up.
 

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I know so many people that see this story as the ultimate in success.
It's because the purpose of life for most people is to do nothing (and for people that work for the government, it's to do nothing while being paid).

"Retire early!" "Retire in your 30s!" etc. The keyword is "retire".

This couple worked and now they have achieved their purpose. Good for them!

They kinda look like morons, but they're happy.

To me, their situation is still better than the slowlane. At least they get to read books and do sport all day.

I find it infuriating that someone who has to religiously count pennies and has to deny themselves from every expenditure has the balls to call themselves financially independent -- and the media empowers them.

It's a vocabulary problem. Financial independence in media language means "not needing to have a job to survive".

These people survive without having a job. So they are financially independent.
 

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Not for me. The whole point of success for me is to actually be successful.
This is settling and justifying your decision after the fact.
Don’t get me wrong, I can and do enjoy a nice off the grid vacation. But that’s just it, it’s good because it’s not permanent.
But then, to each their own.
 

The-J

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How free are they, really?

Nothing wrong with doing this, but aside from saving nearly $1m (which is unusual and they can be justified in being proud of that), they haven't really done anything. You don't need money to live the way they do. You can do what they do and be broke. There are teenagers on YouTube doing the "van life" thing and they have nothing except a van.

I don't judge them for choosing that life, but don't call it an accomplishment.
 
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Harman

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I find it infuriating that someone who has to religiously count pennies and has to deny themselves from every expenditure has the balls to call themselves financially independent -- and the media empowers them.
It's modern day asceticism at its finest.

It would be amazing if there was any kind of way to keep tabs on this couple, to see how long their "financially-free early retirement" lasts.

You took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm probably listening to your podcast too much. I swear you're like my spirit animal. You perfectly voice my inner thoughts.
 

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I know quite a few people in the FIRE community, and I think "retire" is a bit of a misnomer.
Maybe some people literally sit around and do nothing for the next 60 years (I didn't read the article, so I can't comment on this particular couple).

However, most of the people that I talk to treat it as a backstop. If they know they can live on $40k a year, and their investments allow them to pull that much each year without stress, then they have the security to do something with more risk. Most of these people hate going to a job (just like we do), but they don't have the risk appetite that we do. So they save up, make sure they have enough to cover their necessities, then quit the job to do something more exciting.

The media coverage is awful, but the people I know in this community are all either running businesses after they "retire," or they're doing some awesome community work that they couldn't do with a job.
 

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thechosen1

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It is financial fanaticism in the name of optimizing mediocrity and calling yourself "financially independent."

If you were truly financially free, you wouldn't need to sell your toys.
If you were truly financially free, you wouldn't need to deny yourself dinners at restaurants.
If you were truly financially free, you wouldn't need to deny yourself of virtually any convenience or luxury.
If you were truly financially free, a "budget" wouldn't be in your vocabulary for daily living necessities.

I find it infuriating that someone who has to religiously count pennies and has to deny themselves from every expenditure has the balls to call themselves financially independent -- and the media empowers them.

Stuff like this makes me vomit, but in today's culture, up is down, and down is up.
I find it infuriating not that THE COUPLE has “the balls” to call themselves financially independent while barely eking out an existence...

But rather, I find it infuriating that the scripted dogma (here propagated by the media) suggests that THIS should be the highest and best use of a person’s life - and that nobody should have more, want more, or be more.

Like this is the goal, the pinnacle, of what a free person can achieve.

They really want everyone to stay on a short leash it appears.
 

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I don’t know, I found the article fine. I think the only thing that is different about this couple is that they are in their 30s. Imagine if this article was written about two people who were in their 60s and had saved up $800,000. Would you be saying the same thing about them?

They are pretty much living exactly as a couple in the 60s would be living. They are doing it 30 years early. So what Is wrong with that?

There are many people out there that don’t want to live a life like ours. It doesn’t mean they are living a crappy life. How many people do you know that have a lot of money, and spend less than what this couple spends, and sit at home all day and watch TV. Is their life better because they are older and have a couple million dollars saved up?

Let’s say they decided to work five more years. They would’ve probably saved up another $500,000. So they would be 35 years old with $1.3 million saved. Probably living the same life, except they would be making maybe $55,000 a year. With this be better? Or will we still be making fun of them?
 

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Why do you consider that articles as 100% true.
If someone can bring 1000 of people discussing about an article, he probably can have that as a fastlane business without telling everybody.

I could in 2 hours copy that article with my pics and would the world talk about it? No. They are good at copywriting, marketing and so on.
 

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I find it infuriating not that THE COUPLE has “the balls” to call themselves financially independent while barely eking out an existence...

But rather, I find it infuriating that the scripted dogma (here propagated by the media) suggests that THIS should be the highest and best use of a person’s life - and that nobody should have more, want more, or be more.

Like this is the goal, the pinnacle, of what a free person can achieve.

They really want everyone to stay on a short leash it appears.
You just observed a death of opportunity in that article. What could have been. I personally believe people are all capable of something very cool and meaningful if they have the balls to actually do it.

It is hard to believe there is much for meaning in spending $40k a year, sharing a car, living in a trailer, not giving his wife gifts, living to do nothing every day and bragging about it on CNBC.
 

Raoul Duke

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I see two people who are very unhappy.

:shrug:
 

redshift

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The biggest problem with this frugal type of lifestyle is you end up programming yourself into a scarcity mindset without realizing it. You'll always be closed and not receptive to what life has to offer even if a better quality of life becomes attainable.

Eg: If they try and piggy back off the exposure from this to sell slowlane guru type courses (which you can see on the twitter page already), what are they going to do with the extra income they generate ? Most likely put it into their retirement accounts and continue to penny pinch because the identity is so strong and will only get further re-enforced.

In the end, when time is up, you'll end up not having used any of that extra cash for anything productive or useful, which ironically, would be the biggest waste of money even from a slowlaner point of view.
 

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"not needing to have a job to survive".

So the homeless guy and his shopping cart sleeping on the park bench is also financially independent.

Got it.

At least they get to read books

Sure, as long as they get them from the library, buy them at Goodwill, or steal them.

The budget doesn't allow for books. Or any kind of sports that require equipment.

How free are they, really?

A couple of notches above a homeless person living under a bridge.

Both share "freedom" based on having no job and not spending money.

This is his twitter:

Steve | Millionaire Habits (@SteveOnSpeed): https://twitter.com/SteveOnSpeed?s=07

Millionaire Habits?

GMAFB.

Looks like another FIRE clown that is dumbing down America to associate "success", "getting rich" and "millionaire habits" with mindless frugality, stock market dependence, and lifestyle asceticism.

Bottomline, money religiously regulates these people-- they are slaves to money-- and yet they claim to be free from it. Oh the irony is so rich...

This is why the word "millionaire" in today's culture is about as impressive as a used Toyota Camry.

Imagine if this article was written about two people who were in their 60s and had saved up $800,000. Would you be saying the same thing about them?

No, because they wouldn't have an article. The point is the article, not their lifestyle.

Where's your article on CNBC?

You are TRULY financially free with sports cars, houses around the world, travel, a thriving business, and the ability to truly do whatever you want by most measures. But your article doesn't promote a pro-job, pro-mediocrity, pro-own-nothing, and a pro-WallStreet narrative.

I don't care how people choose to live their lives. If the guy wants to flush his toilet once a week to "save money on water bills!" I don't give a shit as it is none of my business.

But what is my business, is that, once again, the media is giving these clowns a podium and contributing to the dumbification and mediocrization of success, finance, wealth. They are useful idiots for the "you'll own nothing and be happy with it" narrative -- now a new standard in how "millionaires" should live.

So now media is telling us...

This is what success looks like.
This is how millionaires live.
You can be happy owning nothing.


The poor guy hasn't given his wife a gift in years (as if this is something to be proud of?) -- and this insufferable existence is then applauded on major media outlets.

These people haven't escaped the rat-race, they embody a different version of it.

Instead of being a slave to consumption and material goods, they're a slave to money.

I find it no different than a morbidly obese person teaching someone how to be morbidly obese -- and then the media gives them a voice, normalizing the behavior. It normalizes culture into the believing that if you indeed become a millionaire, this is how you should live. This is success!

In other words, buy my bootcamp so we can teach you how to live a life that sucks like ours-- and convince yourself you'll be happy doing it. As the World Economic Forum says, in the future, you'll own nothing-- and be happy with it.

If he wants to stand up on stage and pound his chest as some type of embodiment of "success", then he (and the BS he is promoting) is subject to critique and ridicule.
 

Kak

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Until I can build a 10,000 square foot home on at least 10 acres of a tax efficient island within a 10 minute drive of my Pilatus PC24… I won’t be done.

And that is just from a lifestyle perspective.
 

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I don’t know, I found the article fine. I think the only thing that is different about this couple is that they are in their 30s. Imagine if this article was written about two people who were in their 60s and had saved up $800,000. Would you be saying the same thing about them?

They are pretty much living exactly as a couple in the 60s would be living. They are doing it 30 years early. So what Is wrong with that?

There are many people out there that don’t want to live a life like ours. It doesn’t mean they are living a crappy life. How many people do you know that have a lot of money, and spend less than what this couple spends, and sit at home all day and watch TV. Is their life better because they are older and have a couple million dollars saved up?

Let’s say they decided to work five more years. They would’ve probably saved up another $500,000. So they would be 35 years old with $1.3 million saved. Probably living the same life, except they would be making maybe $55,000 a year. With this be better? Or will we still be making fun of them?

I felt kinda weird reading it. A part of me agrees with you wrote above but another part felt they just missed the point.

You got one life and they were so close to living it on a whole different level. They got over a million plus saved, they are still young, they have a strong relationship... but this just seems so boring.

I don’t mean to judge them but it’s hard to not think if they did just a *little* bit more they could actually enjoy what they have 10 times as much. It’s like they flew the whole way to another country and then got 10 meters outside the airport and said “hey this is nice let’s just stay here”.

To me it just lacks any fun. You’re not free of something if you’re whole existence is defined by it. Him not giving a gift doesn’t seem very free. Him not going out to a restaurant isn’t free. Like I can’t think of when I had to stop and think about giving someone a gift or eating out - if I want to I do and if not it’s not even on my mind.

It just kinda makes me sad that he doesn’t want to experience more when they now have more opportunity than 99.9999% of people who ever lived.
 

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I'm so financially free I'm gonna sell a bootcamp where I tell you how to make money.

He turned into any other guru. Instead of renting planes or lambos to impress people, he got himself a miserable life. And the suckers gobbled it up. They are going to buy his course, since he appeared on the news.

Pain.
 

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