Project... product perfection. My journal:

[axiom]

ive never looked for an engineer but the dude sounds like a winner to me.

 

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[PEBBLE]

Yeah. That was my thought. I don't see him as the enemy and have total respect for him. I'm gonna send him a message and give him some additional ideas.

I have even bought one myself.

My engineer is encouraging me to compete but it's not massive market and was hoping to have it all to myself.

I can't help feeling bummed out. But time to focus more energy into my other ideas.

Thank you for the possitivity.

 

[PEBBLE]

Okay boys and girls. I had to edit my last post and keep it a secret.

I pretty much shared my idea since I thought it was a all over. Hope everybody that saw it could be great people and keep it to themselves.

I spoke to my engineer and he says I shouldn't panic so much that there is someone else who made the exact idea. He is unable to refund some of the money that is tied up so it kinda makes sense for me to get it made regardless, put a video of it out there and see if people will still buy.

I calmed down and switched my logical brain on.

His product is on indiegogo which pretty much means he hasn't got a final product yet. He doesn't even have a video of it working. Just has a model and a video on his running over it with a tank.

This is my cue to beat him to the market. He has many backers which kinda validates the market for my idea which is a good thing.

If I can get my product in their hands before my competitor does. Then I would have a advantage. A lot of the crowd funding products don't work so it doesn't make sense for me to give up just yet.

Also, my engineer says that my product won't sell as much as being the only person selling it but there is still money to be made. He even said he would like to make me an offer of funding my project/working for free for some equity in return as opposed to giving up completely. $5000 with nothing to show for it doesn't make sense to me.

I will consider this but I am leaning more doing this solo but I know he has massive connections with quality Chinese manufactures that are really close to him. 2 heads are better than one but ideally I would like help but not just with funding.

Also. My competitor doesn't appear to have a patent. I am tempted to get a PPA that could with hold him for a year at the least but I really want to avoid legal battles and I have nothing but respect for him. But I am worried that if I go public, HE might get the PPA before I do. Any suggestions?

My engineer surprised me too, my prediction was that cost per unit would be £40. He was pretty confident that he can do it for £15 per unit which means there is ridiculously good margins. (Perhaps sell it for £140-£180 retail)

My competitor products are made in the UK so that means they probably cost more than £15 for sure.

I don't want to get into a price war but I guess my margins could beat him on price but I really don't want to lower too much. I read somewhere that Xbox and play station have price wars and they don't make much money on the consoles. But instead the games and subscriptions which is quite interesting. Perhaps I could speak to my competitor that we agree to a minimum price so that we both don't lose out and still get a share of the market.

I was a bit stupid and told all my friends about my idea I hope they keep it secret because I thought I was done for. However, this was after they backed the competitors product on indiegogo lol

So that's it guys. I'm gonna persist and try to beat him to market. He says the product will be made in October. But I predict delays for him for December. I predict June that I will be having my working product.

This is why I didn't choose to crowd source. Because of people like me. I now can review the response of the public to his product and make the changes to my product without having to go through as much trial and error. That's the bad thing with crowd sourcing. Going public before a product is made is not always a wise thing which is why I didn't opt for it. I would only do it if there was no choice.

Thanks for reading and hope you're all routing for me

Phil

 

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[PEBBLE]

PM'd GSL

 

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[PEBBLE]

Thanks for the closure, I shall do just that.

I may of started pretty soon, but this idea has been burning the back of my mind for a while now, I go to sleep dreaming about it, go to work day dreaming about it.

Update, talking to the inventor, again, seems very competent. He is currently drawing some rough sketches and i shall do the same back.

I have come to realise, that because my product electrical it will mean that it will require a little maintenance. There will be a device inside, that will turn electrical energy to kinetic energy which is kinda like the engine to a car to my device.

What this means, is that I need to provide a warantee's and what not. So will have to stock up on solenoids and send them out if the customer has issues. This means it would be 90% passive or maybe I can get someone to handle a few repairs and shipping. I am still up the challenge though so it won't steer me off the road.

 

[smithsta]

Hey mate, welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you have a clear plan which is great. I look forward to reading your journey as you go along.

Could you not launch a crowdfunding campaign for your product if you don't want to use your life savings?

 

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[PEBBLE]

Hey mate, welcome to the forum.

Sounds like you have a clear plan which is great. I look forward to reading your journey as you go along.

Could you not launch a crowdfunding campaign for your product if you don't want to use your life savings?

Is Kickstarter one of those crowd funding things? I forgot about that, like i said, I am new to this, I shall look into this. Keeping my life savings sounds like a good thing.

Thank you so much.

(P.S. Feel free to link to more crowd funds, will have a google myself too)

 

[PEBBLE]

i'm so excited right now and very nervous at the same time, me and my engineer have been blasting each other emails with ideas. I have 2 unique selling points that would blow the existing product on the market out of the water, however....

I had a much better idea to one of my selling points which would make it much less complex and more reliable.

He then turned my other selling point into an amazing idea that in theory cures a compound problem that I never planned on solving because I wasn't ware of the technology. This means the product solves more problems which increases the value and obviously the price

I am really excited about this project. I have sent him an email of what his step by step strategy and an estimated time of completion so I know how much the thing is going to cost me. At the most, I am willing to throw £5,000 to get a finished prototype in my hands. this is a quarter of my life savings.

Finger biting weekend for sure:

Watch this space.

 

[PEBBLE]

Guys. I really need an Audibook/podcasts to listen to whilst I work.

What is THE best book in your opinions for a book developing your own product ?

I'm finding it surprisingly hard to find something on Google

 

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[PEBBLE]

Not sure what the best book is but I believe Invent It, Sell It, Bank It from Lori Greiner is a pretty popular book on product development.

Nice thread btw, will be following this for sure

Thank you so much!, it is now on my Kindle. I have been addicted to Shark Tank recently and have developed a huge crush on Lori haha.

Now that my crush on her is developed, I just need to make a prototype of it, market and distribute it out to her (i didn't mean that sound so creepy lol)

 

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[PEBBLE]

Update, I got my engineer fill out his own NDA with my and his name. Some sources on the internet seems way complicated with hiring attorney's etc which I really would like to avoid.

Hope someone with experience could chime in to give a 2nd opinion..

 

[PEBBLE]

edit- double post- oops

 

[PEBBLE]

Ok a hiccup, the engineer says I need more power for my product which means two 9Volt batteries are now required, don't forget, my product is small and has to be small, so I hope to god he finds some way how to make the 2 batteries fit. This life of this project is now 50/50 whether I can be in business or not. Fingers crossed:

 

[PEBBLE]

Great thread. looking forward to seeing you progress.

Question: have you walked into any roadblocks yet?

Not really, there was a situation where I would need 2 batteries to get what i want which would be unacceptable for my idea. The engineer found an alternative solution and we are back on track.

He is just on vacation right now, but i'm patient. He is very competent.

 

[PEBBLE]

Quick update

Still working on this. Just a slow process is all!

 

[BlueAtom]

Do you think he might have a little too much info on your idea, and trying to make other plans? I know you said your partners but how much do you know about this guy? Hope it works out well for you though.

 

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[PEBBLE]

Do you think he might have a little too much info on your idea, and trying to make other plans? I know you said your partners but how much do you know about this guy? Hope it works out well for you though.

It did occur to me too, thanks for the reply, but my gut feeling is that I doubt it, it isn't exactly a world changing device that everybody wants to use, it is more for a niche of recreation that he has probably never done himself.

I just think he is a computer nerd, which he is good at, just inexperienced at the important bit, i guess i was naive to award him the job without too much research,

 

[timmy]

He wants out man.......but he's just trying to do it in a nice way. Cut the chord move on. He will slow you down or "worse"

 

[PEBBLE]

Hey man, have you thought of working out a deal with the UK manufacturer you mentioned in your original thread?

If the manu only sells in the UK, odds are they could stand to make a lot more money in the US (assuming you live in the US), provided they have a good distributor. You could contact them, tell them about your business, and offer to sell the product in the States under your own label. It would be win-win in that you could sidestep the whole engineering thing and they would expand to a much bigger market.

It would streamline the process greatly and reduce your upfront costs. Eventually once you gain traction, you could work out a sole distribution agreement, giving you security in the market.

Thank you so much for the advice. I did think about the whole licence-ing route. But I simply don't have any patents in place yet, so I will hold out on telling that manufacturer my ideas that they could steal and patent themselves.

I still would like to make a physical prototype, then I can decide between the options. It depends how awesome the prototype will turn out and my gut feeling to choose the route. I guess nobody will listen to verbal patent-less ideas at the moment.

 

[MitchC]

Thank you so much for the advice. I did think about the whole licence-ing route. But I simply don't have any patents in place yet, so I will hold out on telling that manufacturer my ideas that they could steal and patent themselves.

I still would like to make a physical prototype, then I can decide between the options. It depends how awesome the prototype will turn out and my gut feeling to choose the route. I guess nobody will listen to verbal patent-less ideas at the moment.

Why don't you file a provisional patent? That should be enough protection along with an NDA

 

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[PEBBLE]

Thanks. I did not even know provisional patents existed. Will look into it. I am sure the existing manufacturer would still like the idea and start their own venture and get around the patents and much faster too since they have everything in place.

My gut feeling tells me at this time is that I want to do this venture myself, defo a plan B if I change my mind

But want to keep this under my hat at the moment.

 

[PEBBLE]

Time for an update

I was initially very discouraged by my last engineer experience, I opted for 50% of my refund which he said he will need some time to gather the fund and politely asked him to give him positive feedback. so I have gave him till the 16th to pay up before I go caps lock on his a$$.

I hate chasing people for money and I am very confident that he won't get back to me until I send him a firm email. Probably something along the lines of 'You're not exactly earning this positive review Saad, are you?' - I am tempted to be really harsh on him and ruin his Elance presence, perhaps refund 100%, I have no use for his current designs because...this is the good news:

I started from scratch, and I posted a new job looking for a new engineer, I shared my story in my proposal. I instantly got a lot of requests but one guy really stood out to me. The USA flag instantly told me that he was going to be pricey. We signed an NDA, talked to him on Skype and i told him my idea. He said that he is new to Elance and was looking to scale his offline business. Which basically means he is a full on super genius engineer expert for cheap. A quarter of us his usual price. I looked at his portfolio and I saw physical stuff which looked good quality. He has been doing it for over 10 years, has a team, has machines and materials in house. He also said it is common for people to hire him due to incompetent cowboys.

He said he was going to do some research and call me in 2 days, the call was great. It was like he knew everything about the industry and was inside my head on the features and even added some amazing new ideas. I really like the gut feeling I had so I went with it. Last night I made the biggest purchase of my life. $5000 (half of my life savings)

He is gonna split it up into miles stones so I don't have to pay the full whack in one go so I felt less worried. The great thing is that he said he can be done in 2 months. He even educated to me that my product ideas were too perfect and perhaps leave an extra buffer for some upgrades for the user for additional revenue. He says that he doesn't accept all clients because he doesn't like their ideas a lot of the time but he thinks my idea is great and so he is happy to do this. I asked him info regarding patents and he said the patent isn't needed with a product like this and it should turbo boost my brand that will blow the competition out of the water (if the product can be brought to market)

So it is official. They working on it as I speak. I feel good with a little nervous butterflies in my stomach. Kinda like betting on Red on a roulette mostly full of red segments. Hope everyone hasn't gave up on me just yet.

 

[PEBBLE]

This is my message to my original engineer:

"Hi Saad, again I am very disappointed at your behaviour. You have requested for me to give you positive feedback so your Elance portfolio does not get a bad reputation which I agreed to.

But now I am furious, the reason I am angry is that you are making me chase you for money and I don't deserve any of this, especially since I gave you more than enough time to get the funds. it has been more than a 'week or so'.

I am going to dispute this and request I get my full 100% refund because quite simply, my new engineer says your designs are not good and I have no use for them.

You have 2 options:

1) 50% refund and I will leave you honest feedback of my experience with you.

or

2) 100% refund and I will leave you positive feedback.

Sorry to has to come to this but you leave with me with no choice and a bitter taste in my mouth. Please decide.

Phil"

 

[NObrien]

Nice to hear about the progress you are making. Way to go...

 

[kph200]

@PEBBLE Great thread man. Thanks for sharing. Any updates with prototype and did the first guy paid you yet???

 

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[PEBBLE]

Well looks like $5,000 down the drain.

Someone beat me to it with a better and cheaper design...

F*ck my life. I'm trembling. People say I should compete and make it cheaper but it's still yet to cost me more money in testing and prototype stage.

Not feeling like getting in a price war with someone with a better product. My gut feeling is that this will be a stressful idea and that I should move on.

Upwards and onwards I guess.

If it wasn't for my 1st engineer, I would of beat him to the market.

Back to the drawing board.

I wish you could see my face right now. Very frustrated and feel like rock bottom right now.



EDIT: I spoke to my engineer and he brings up a few good points, this new guy on the block doesn't even have a working product yet but it is indeed an awesome product.


He also thinks i'm wasting a potential idea and is willing to back up my idea in trade of some equity, need time to think

 

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[JDM]

You've mentioned provisional patents, however said that the product (or a better version) now exists. Unless your product is different, you will not be able to patent the idea. Once an idea has been disclosed to the world, it generally cannot be patented (certain exceptions apply if it was you who disclosed, however this does not appear to be the issue). It is only dislcosure of the idea that is required, not a functioning product.

If your product can't sustain one competitor you were in the completely wrong market to begin with. Like you've said, his IndieGoGo campaign provides validation of your product. Beat him to market and take as much of the market share as you can by being first.

 

[timmy]

I looked at the link and your compeditor is stuck somewhere between concept and finished product and he does not make any secret of this. Not a great place to be really. He has in effect helped you and not hindered you that much so far. That is unlikely to change. Your main competition will most likely come from china when the penny drops so get going and stop looking at the scenery. Validation, target market, trends etc have already been established thanks to you UK buddy. Good luck with it

 

[PEBBLE]

Okay boys and girls. I had to edit my last post and keep it a secret.

I pretty much shared my idea since I thought it was a all over. Hope everybody that saw it could be great people and keep it to themselves.

I spoke to my engineer and he says I shouldn't panic so much that there is someone else who made the exact idea. He is unable to refund some of the money that is tied up so it kinda makes sense for me to get it made regardless, put a video of it out there and see if people will still buy.

I calmed down and switched my logical brain on.

His product is on indiegogo which pretty much means he hasn't got a final product yet. He doesn't even have a video of it working. Just has a model and a video on his running over it with a tank.

This is my cue to beat him to the market. He has many backers which kinda validates the market for my idea which is a good thing.

If I can get my product in their hands before my competitor does. Then I would have a advantage. A lot of the crowd funding products don't work so it doesn't make sense for me to give up just yet.

Also, my engineer says that my product won't sell as much as being the only person selling it but there is still money to be made. He even said he would like to make me an offer of funding my project/working for free for some equity in return as opposed to giving up completely. $5000 with nothing to show for it doesn't make sense to me.

I will consider this but I am leaning more doing this solo but I know he has massive connections with quality Chinese manufactures that are really close to him. 2 heads are better than one but ideally I would like help but not just with funding.

Also. My competitor doesn't appear to have a patent. I am tempted to get a PPA that could with hold him for a year at the least but I really want to avoid legal battles and I have nothing but respect for him. But I am worried that if I go public, HE might get the PPA before I do. Any suggestions?

My engineer surprised me too, my prediction was that cost per unit would be £40. He was pretty confident that he can do it for £15 per unit which means there is ridiculously good margins. (Perhaps sell it for £140-£180 retail)

My competitor products are made in the UK so that means they probably cost more than £15 for sure.

I don't want to get into a price war but I guess my margins could beat him on price but I really don't want to lower too much. I read somewhere that Xbox and play station have price wars and they don't make much money on the consoles. But instead the games and subscriptions which is quite interesting. Perhaps I could speak to my competitor that we agree to a minimum price so that we both don't lose out and still get a share of the market.

I was a bit stupid and told all my friends about my idea I hope they keep it secret because I thought I was done for. However, this was after they backed the competitors product on indiegogo lol

So that's it guys. I'm gonna persist and try to beat him to market. He says the product will be made in October. But I predict delays for him for December. I predict June that I will be having my working product.

This is why I didn't choose to crowd source. Because of people like me. I now can review the response of the public to his product and make the changes to my product without having to go through as much trial and error. That's the bad thing with crowd sourcing. Going public before a product is made is not always a wise thing which is why I didn't opt for it. I would only do it if there was no choice.

Thanks for reading and hope you're all routing for me

Phil

You've mentioned provisional patents, however said that the product (or a better version) now exists. Unless your product is different, you will not be able to patent the idea. Once an idea has been disclosed to the world, it generally cannot be patented (certain exceptions apply if it was you who disclosed, however this does not appear to be the issue). It is only dislcosure of the idea that is required, not a functioning product.

If your product can't sustain one competitor you were in the completely wrong market to begin with. Like you've said, his IndieGoGo campaign provides validation of your product. Beat him to market and take as much of the market share as you can by being first.

Thank you for the info

I admit that my knowledge with patents are limited (reading a bunch of books) but was at the conclusion that you can not patent ideas? You have to have schematics of how the component works? Feel free to correct me on this. But if he hasn't even created a patent on the same technology. Then it's still open for patent?

You also raise some fantastic points regarding market competition

Thanks again I really appreciate the (much needed) advice

 

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[PEBBLE]

I looked at the link and your compeditor is stuck somewhere between concept and finished product and he does not make any secret of this. Not a great place to be really. He has in effect helped you and not hindered you that much so far. That is unlikely to change. Your main competition will most likely come from china when the penny drops so get going and stop looking at the scenery. Validation, target market, trends etc have already been established thanks to you UK buddy. Good luck with it

Thanks Tim. so would you say that it's the cheap Chinese knocks offs that I have to worry about?

My gut feeling is that these things can be dangerous if it is bad quality so that will help scare them away me thinks. Even I feel like running away because they can be classed as firearms so they need control and approval.

Anyway. Yeah I agree that my new competition is perhaps in a worst place than me by going public and revealing the flaws. His project is literally an empty shell but does look legit and attract many funders as a result.

He does have a few interesting ideas that if I'm honest I would like to copy. It's gonna Seem like I ripped him off but I have data/proof from a year ago when I hired my 1st engineer listing my features.

The majority of it I thought of organically all by myself. He has 2/3 extra features that I perhaps would like to add so at least we have the same amount of benefits/features as each other.

I don't want to be a cell phone with buttons trying to Compete with smart phones if you get me?

Thanks everyone