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Going fastlane in Legal (Lawsuits & more)?

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Is legal a valid fastlane?

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seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
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126
Germany
Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
102
86
126
Germany
wow 100 views, 3 votes and no reply.

I took some action today and reached out to some lawyers to get an expert opinion. However it seems most of them take friday afternoon off. bad timing I guess. Will try again monday.
 

Kid

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wow 100 views, 3 votes and no reply.

I took some action today and reached out to some lawyers to get an expert opinion. However it seems most of them take friday afternoon off. bad timing I guess. Will try again monday.
This "legal" thing in Europe might be an uphill battle.
Its not about solving some technical problem but about public reception.

In states you can sue corporation for using words that you don't like
,probably win and pocket few million.
And many people seek that possibility.

You might lose other opportunities trying to educate people in EU that they should in fact fight back.

If getting one's own money back plus potential premium can't convince them then what can?

If you can solve this problem, you might be up to something.
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
102
86
126
Germany
the way I see it: things started in the US and then came to europe a few years later.
we're seeing already some bigger cases taking place for example with volkswagen and wirecard were thousands of people act together.

I think the critical part will be to educate people to take actions themself instead of hoping for help from the government. (that's a very common attitude) From a legal perspective it shouldn't be an issue to win the cases.
 

Mike Partee

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NCNY

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Yeah you probaly sued for peanuts, go ahead and try to sue some big sharks and see what happens. Good luck trying to compete against an army of top of the line lawyers...
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
102
86
126
Germany
Yeah you probaly sued for peanuts, go ahead and try to sue some big sharks and see what happens. Good luck trying to compete against an army of top of the line lawyers...
That's the point of a class-action (the equivalent in EU) to bundle a lot of small claims together to be able to hire top of the line lawyers as well.

And like I said I won my suit against top-notch lawyers from 2 international law firms without a lawyer on my own. They paid the lawyer probably more than they had to pay me, which makes it even more obvious that they have no clue what they are doing. And it was not a small company, they have hundreds of employees.
 

Onakosa

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Oct 23, 2020
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Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.
"this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS." - Hmmmm ...

Okay, when lawyers (here in England - no idea about any other jurisdiction) have to deal with Litigants in Person (i.e. lay people defending themselves) most of them inwardly sigh deeply. The rules about how a lawyer deals with them are VERY strict. A lawyer cannot exploit a LIPs lack of legal knowledge. This basically means that if the lawyer sees something that the LIP has missed OR if there is a very obvious (to them) flaw in the LIPs argument, they are obliged to flag it up and not exploit it - which is what would normally happen.

For this, and numerous other reasons which are too dull to list here, a lawyer ends up doing about 75% of the LIPs job.

Courts will usually give LIPs the benefit of the doubt and - more often than not - find in their favour or, at the very least, will not penalise them in the way a lawyer would have been.

LIPs then stick two fingers up at the lawyer, and go off and tell anyone who will listen, "lawyers don't have any clue what they are doing ...". They then usually decide to qualify themselves and become lawyers.

Just saying like.
 

Onakosa

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Oct 23, 2020
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UK
Hi,

I'm wondering if some fastlaners are successful in Legal?

The reason I'm asking, somehow I get involved into legal action all the time. I'm not really looking for trouble but somehow it just happens. For example I got sued by an international top model once. Then this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS. Unfortunately I was not interested in school/university to become a lawyer, however I've noticed that their seems to be a crazy amount of opportunities for entrepreneurs. Why become a lawyer when you can just hire them, right?

So my fastlane idea is this: Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions and then build a solid product in legal tech.

Is this a valid way to make millions or am I forgetting something here?

Whenever I talk to my friends about it, they call me crazy. They would rather get scammed than to fight back. Somehow they see legal action as something bad. That's the only thing holding me back at the moment.
Also, "Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions" -

I don't mean to sound negative, but the kind of litigation that I think that you think you are talking about often goes on for years. Just as an e.g. the McLibel case here in England went on for ten years. How are you going to fund it?
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
102
86
126
Germany
Also, "Let's assume a billion dollar industry defrauded people out of their money. I want to help them get their money back and collect a share of the collected money. We don't have class action lawsuits in europe, however I've noticed that something similar exists where people bound together to sue big corporations. So my idea is to make a few millions" -

I don't mean to sound negative, but the kind of litigation that I think that you think you are talking about often goes on for years. Just as an e.g. the McLibel case here in England went on for ten years. How are you going to fund it?

I've talked to specialized companies financing this kind of actions, just like an insurance company: They take the risk and charge a premium for it after the victory.
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
102
86
126
Germany
"this year I've successfully sued my employer (did it by myself without lawyer) and I noticed that they don't have any clue what they are doing and just hopping most people are lazy or stupid enough to take their BS." - Hmmmm ...

Okay, when lawyers (here in England - no idea about any other jurisdiction) have to deal with Litigants in Person (i.e. lay people defending themselves) most of them inwardly sigh deeply. The rules about how a lawyer deals with them are VERY strict. A lawyer cannot exploit a LIPs lack of legal knowledge. This basically means that if the lawyer sees something that the LIP has missed OR if there is a very obvious (to them) flaw in the LIPs argument, they are obliged to flag it up and not exploit it - which is what would normally happen.

For this, and numerous other reasons which are too dull to list here, a lawyer ends up doing about 75% of the LIPs job.

Courts will usually give LIPs the benefit of the doubt and - more often than not - find in their favour or, at the very least, will not penalise them in the way a lawyer would have been.

LIPs then stick two fingers up at the lawyer, and go off and tell anyone who will listen, "lawyers don't have any clue what they are doing ...". They then usually decide to qualify themselves and become lawyers.

Just saying like.

Yeah it was a strategic decision not to hire a lawyer. But I've would have won anyway. The company had no clue about anything and I'm probably going after them once more.

Anyway the UK, Germany and probably Italy have a century old legal system. But what about the rest of EU? It's much different there and so much opportunity.
 

Jon L

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To successfully prosecute a class action case, you have to be really, really, really, really good at what you do. You're going up against companies with unlimited budgets, and the incentive to use it. I built a case management system for a class action case. There were 100-200 users of the system. It took 10 years to reach settlement. It was INCREDIBLY complex and very expensive to prosecute. Tens of millions of dollars, all of which had to be financed.

To set up class action cases where there are no precedents for them, you have to be even better than that.

Unless you're that good, I'd look at providing tools for lawyers to use. Opportunity is out there. Provide the shovels and the jeans, don't mine for gold, as it were.
 

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woken

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I've always been amazed by the mentality in the US.

Somebody looked at you the wrong way? SUE THEM
Did somebody take your parking space? SUE THEM
CUT the queue whilst waiting for the ATM? SUE THEM
Revved their engine in public ? SUE THEM, cause why not?

:) Not all are like this, of course. But nowhere else you see people suing others as much as in the US. Might be wrong though.
Not sure you can do what you want unless you're a lawyer.
Unless you can convince a lawyer to give you a cut, if the case is won.
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
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Germany
Not sure you can do what you want unless you're a lawyer.
Unless you can convince a lawyer to give you a cut, if the case is won.

Actually in my jurisdiction lawyers are not allowed to take commission in most cases. So I need to set up a company anyway which then hires the lawyer as contractor.

Btw. does somebody know if it's possible to start a law firm without being a lawyer, for example by hiring one as employee and then using his name and title?
 

woken

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Actually in my jurisdiction lawyers are not allowed to take commission in most cases. So I need to set up a company anyway which then hires the lawyer as contractor.

Btw. does somebody know if it's possible to start a law firm without being a lawyer, for example by hiring one as employee and then using his name and title?

For a “legal fastlane”, so far it sounds nothing legal.

It depends where you want to do this. I read again all posts and still don’t understand if you’re talking US, Europe, or anything else.


In the US, District of Columbia and Washington states allow for (limited) circumstances under which a nonlawyer can have an ownership stake in a law firm. Nothing else.

In the UK, you can but you need at least 1 lawyer at partner/ director level.

I recently saw a video about an ex con in Gibraltar which does, more or less, what you want to do.

Consulting.

His firm gets the cases, and then work them out themselves or outsource the lawyers. They get their cut and that’s it.
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
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Germany
I recently saw a video about an ex con in Gibraltar which does, more or less, what you want to do.

Consulting.

His firm gets the cases, and then work them out themselves or outsource the lawyers. They get their cut and that’s it.
That's exactly what I wanna do. Can you share the video?
Most likely we want to focus on EU markets. It's way less saturated than US.
 

woken

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That's exactly what I wanna do. Can you share the video?
Most likely we want to focus on EU markets. It's way less saturated than US.

it’s actually Marbella, hm. Similar enough. :rofl:
There you go
 

woken

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seomatic

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Jan 24, 2011
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Germany
Yo, I'm thinking about doing a progress thread. Someone interested in that?
Here's what I did today: Hired the first lawyer and sent the first claim.
Another project in the pipeline already, but want to take it one by one for now.
Obviously they are not million dollar deals, but 4 and 5 figures. Just getting my feet wet.
 

Onakosa

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That's exactly what I wanna do. Can you share the video?
Most likely we want to focus on EU markets. It's way less saturated than US.
Hang on. First you were talking about class actions. Now you’re saying you want to do what this guy does which is mostly crime work. They are chalk and cheese. Also the amounts of money involved are vastly different.
 

seomatic

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Jan 24, 2011
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Hang on. First you were talking about class actions. Now you’re saying you want to do what this guy does which is mostly crime work. They are chalk and cheese. Also the amounts of money involved are vastly different.
Consulting is what I'm doing. Providing lawyers with work and clients with options. No crime in that. :D
 

woken

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I think he meant crime cases.
 

socaldude

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I think there is opportunity as long as the cases are not frivolous.

Partnering with an attorney and bringing value in another aspect is a good idea.

In some states you can even be admitted to the BAR without going to law school.

Me personally I’ve only been sued once in my life. I represented myself against very aggressive opposition and won. I learned all the documents, civil procedures and court rules. And I was only 22 years old. LOL
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
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Germany
What a crazy day, talked to my lawyer today. After we send our claim the defendant immediately responded and brought up a counterclaim. So we are preparing an agreement. If they don't accept, we will file the complaint with the court.
 

seomatic

Contributor
Jan 24, 2011
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Okay all the paperwork is done. The defendant has now one week to accept the offer, otherwise we will file with the court. What happened is that the value of the claim increased 10x so there is quite a bit of cash to float. One option to deal with it is to add financing company, however they are only interested in cases of six figures upwards so I have to hunt bigger cases. Anyway it was good to start small, already learned so much. Always take action before you're ready.

My long term idea is to build an "dream team" of lawyers and other relevant professions. The value proposition to the legal team is a steady deal flow of well-paid work and the value proposition to the client is a first-class legal team which can act way quicker than the average lawyer, specialization and trust.

Another option would be to just forward the cases to lawyers and charge a fee. Just like MJ did with limos.com. This is perfectly legal in my jurisdiction and there is without question demand on both sides of the market. This could be combined with legal tech, to provide additional value for both parties.

Would love to connect with others here, perhaps we can help bringing your product to a new market.
 

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