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RANT Discipline - The Reason You Might Fail

Seth Goodluck

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Being a full-time entrepreneur - at least starting out as I am - is at once one of the most glorious and most challenging things I've ever experienced.

Hopefully, this will get you reflecting/thinking/considering your own climb.

What's Glorious About It?
Not needing to wake up to make a commute to and arrive at someone else's business and being stuck doing someone else's work. The very concept of a regular 9-5 has become almost repulsive to me.

"How on earth did I allow myself to spend my time like that?"

I ADORE being able to sleep, wake, shit, eat, and work when I want to and how I want to.
@MJ DeMarco wasn't kidding when he said there is almost nothing better than getting recognition for work accomplished and getting paid for value you bring into the world - it's AWESOME.

I NEVER want to go back to the rat race and I'll do everything in my power to make damn sure I never have to.

Now, why wouldn't everyone do this? Freedom sounds fantastic. The rat race unbearable.
Why would you possibly not be cut for it and why might you fail?

The Dark Side of Freedom

It's been almost a month now since leaving my job and I can tell you that there is a massive challenge to this lifestyle that goes well beyond any business mechanic/challenge you'll face and owning up to it is far less glorious.

What's that challenge?
Not needing to wake up to make a commute arrive at someone else's business and being directed to do someone's work.

You see - freedom/entrepreneurship has a very real cost and that cost is responsibility & ownership in their purest forms.

There is NO ONE telling you to wake up, work out, finish your website, or to pick up the phone and execute a cold call.

And you are fully, painfully, naked and responsible for your success and failure, your effort and your laziness.

When your flatmate comes in after a hard day's work and asks "How's the business going?" and you didn't do jack sh*t for it today - you have to own that - and it is no easy pill to swallow.

I reckon that this challenge, the challenge of self-discipline, is the one that kills many a dream. It's just doo damned easy to pick up that xbox controller next your sales playbook. Too damned easy to sleep through your alarm.

"Freedom" is full of temptation and without discipline and focus, all of your motivation to join the Fastlane will fail under that pressure.

So if you are thinking of stepping out of the rat race and into the fastlane - I encourage you to really look at yourself and ask "Do I have the discipline required for this?" and proceed accordingly.

A wonderful reddit comic (source) illustrates this perfectly...

When there is no one looking, when are you naked and alone and standing on your own, when distractions and ease present themselves all around you - will you have the focus to resist temptation? The discipline to follow-through? The fortitude to do this every single day? The persistence to keep going?

If you don't - you will almost certainly fail.

If you do though (or if you're willing to get there) - you might not just make it out this time (and if you're insanely focused as is required, almost certainly on the third, forth, five, or sixth attempt).

For me, it's been almost a month and being completely honest, I've had both kinds of days. Days when I woke up at dawn and read and worked my a$$ off until late into the night. And other days like today where it is 11:00AM and I'm barely finishing my first cup of coffee (yes, the extra sleep was glorious).

But days like today need to be welcome anomalies in our lives and never habits. The pain of regret needs to outweigh the pain of discipline.

Now, if you'll excuse me, there is a bench press with my name on it and I need to buff out some edges on my website/pitch before another sales meeting tomorrow morning.

Get off your a$$ and get to work - You've got shit to do.
Discipline might just be the most crucial ingredient in your success.

----

What are your thoughts on discipline?
What are some techniques or habits you've taken on that have helped you? Hurt you?
 
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Kruiser

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I really enjoyed this recent article from the Art of Manliness on motivation v. discipline because it provided a unique take on the subject.

Motivation Over Discipline | The Art of Manliness

One takeaway from the article is that a lot of times what looks like extreme discipline from the outside isn't discipline at all because the supposedly disciplined person LIKES to do the thing that would require extreme discipline from someone else.
 

Seth Goodluck

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I really enjoyed this recent article from the Art of Manliness on motivation v. discipline because it provided a unique take on the subject.

Motivation Over Discipline | The Art of Manliness

One takeaway from the article is that a lot of times what looks like extreme discipline from the outside isn't discipline at all because the supposedly disciplined person LIKES to do the thing that would require extreme discipline from someone else.
Good read and counter thought - thank you for the share!
It's worth adding - this is a ton of fun too :)

As with all things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle (requires discipline and motivation).
 
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ForgetSuccess

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Right on brother. I've had a month of 0 progress, and then I look at myself in the mirror and basically feel crap; mind you, I have instances where I feel like I'm scaling and Mt. Everest -- feel like I'm on the top of the world (for no particular reason) -- and two hours later I'm at the deepest depths (for no particular reason).

And I'm not even in the game yet. Yes: an action faker. I'm looking at what the next step is and looking at it with fear, because I'll have to commit and swim my a$$ off for the island in the horizon. But while I'm looking, before taking the leap, I'm doing the toe in-and-out thing, reading this, reading that, you know -- "preparing".

I'm glad I'd self-reflected enough to know that I require some structure in this life in order to get myself... moving in the right direction.

Still working on it.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Discipline is everything...

A) Because it builds mental toughness...
B) Because it moves probability...
C) Because it will always serve you, no matter if your first, second, or third business fails...
D) Because discipline is the only way you can make this Fastlane thing work.

It is not something to "try" which I'm so sick of hearing.

Imagine the lunacy of having an instructor educate you on how to hit a baseball and after missing one swing at the ball you say, "Gee, this is hard and my instructor doesn't know what he's talking about."

This is not something you "try" -- you live it. "Try" is like swinging at a major league fastball three times and because you didn't get a hit, you quit. Yea, like that's gonna be effective.
 

Fabio1

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I think it's difficult because discipline and freedom are almost each other's opposites. Schwarzenegger said once that he he doesn't had a plan B, because it would gave him an excuse to deviate from plan A.

It's also why a lot of fitness programs use the words "no excuses". Not for the lack of motivation, but for limiting your freedom of choice.

If doing nothing is no choice, guess what, you have to. I've traveled in China, where I saw people working in appalling conditions. Reason? No choice.

How to overcome? For me personaly sometimes difficicult, especially when the alternative is not that bad. Would a lazy sheep walk for miles when he's standing in the middle of a football field? Put him in the desert and let's see if he changes his mind.

There is a TEDX talk in which the speaker said that he accomplished great things by breaking them up in small things and only focus on finishing the smallest step that have to be taken. Others speak about creating habits.

I think that the most import thing is that someone is aware of his difficulties and face them as they are. Without awareness, no possibilities to grow.
 

Timmy C

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It's always in the back of my mind everyone says get used to failure. I am not afraid of it and i tell myself that won't be me I'm so hungry. I'm doing everything I can to make sure my current business succeeds. But I have already learn so much more than any amount of books can teach me. This is hard as hell but I'm honestly having so much fun as well, even on shit days.
 

DonTriumph

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As Jocko Willink said, "Discipline Equals Freedom".

You have to be disciplined if you want to be free. In fact, freedom without discipline is not freedom at all. It's slavery to your own impulses. Soon, you'll pay a hefty price.

You can be "free" to spend on shit, eat shit, live like a literal slob, do nothing other than nonsense... until your lack of discipline catches on you.

Low savings (if any!), medicine expenses after mistreating your body, lack of confidence, etc. That's the price we pay for lack of discipline.

Anyway, great post!

You're right. We should be accountable to ourselves even when no one's looking.
 

El Príncipe

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Very honest post. And very relatable.

There is no one telling you what to do. There is no "or else". No social control. As much as I hate to admit it, that has been a challenge. This has been as much about creating new personal productivity habits as it has been about the business itself. Happy to say I've been pulling it off.
 

MrYoshi

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It's true, I've watched myself wither away over these past few months because of my lack of discipline - no more though.
 

Ninjakid

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Discipline is a superpower.

Many older, pre-Christian cultures believed magic was essentially using the mind to change reality.

If you strip discipline down to it's bear essentials, that's exactly what it is. Using the mind to create reality.

To use discipline to achieve something means the ego has to go through a transformation. And this is actually quite painful. As Michael Beckwith says, "the ego doesn't know the difference between transformation and annihilation." When the ego feels it's about to die, it will try and sabotage you to keep you stuck into old patterns.

There's a good reason for this. Our egos are quite advanced. Ego is not really a thing, it's just a product of evolution designed to protect us from real threats. Our basal ganglia (Reptilian brains) and prefrontal cortexes have had millions of years to evolve, giving us the ability to perceive the self and protect our own survival, as organisms do.

When we're young, our neurons become in tune to our environment to so we'll be able to go about it safely. This means we grow up with a deeply engrained sense of reality which our nervous systems assume is necessary for our survival.

The problem is, reality is far more complex than our minds can ever understand. Two people can view the same situation very differently.

It's like how people who grew up wealthy and people who grew up poor have very different expectations. Both have radically different perceptions about money even though money is still money.

Personalities are largely a result of our conditioning, and they're a lot more fragile than people think. A few shots of whiskey can create a very different person in the same body.

As you can see, the live we create for ourselves are mostly a result of our conditioning. Even though people have control of themselves they're mostly on autopilot. This is why 85% of people work jobs they hate. They're ruled by the ego construct which has been with them since they were born. And the ego is only concerned with survival. Self-actualization is not the ego's domain. To change would require a change in identity.

Where am I going with all this?

Because this shows how powerful discipline is. Discipline used successfully creates a change in one's identity.

Discipline cuts right through our conditioned survival mechanisms and creates a new self.

There are almost no organisms on planet earth that are able to do this.

Let's say you want to lose 50 lbs. You have to surrender yourself to the idea that there's a you that's 50 lbs lighter. Every time you step on the treadmill you are validating the existence of an alternate reality.

This is why discipline is so difficult. It requires you to let your old identity die. It requires you to humble yourself before something greater than you.

This is why there's the saying: "Too much ego kills talent."

Ego will convince you that there's nothing greater than you are right now. Therefore, there's no reason to surrender your old self for a brighter reality.

As Jocko says: DISCIPLINE EQUALS FREEDOM

Freedom means having a choice.

When you're a slave to your impulses, you are not free.

Laziness is not freedom. It's slavery. It's the constant validation of your current sense of self which is always trying to lock you in a little box to make sure you're safe.

So what do I think about discipline?

I think it's one of the most important character traits a person can have. With it all things are possible. Without it, nothing is.
 

BlackMagician

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Why hasn't this post became Notable yet?

Ok. Feeling guilty now. I was just going to play ORI game and thought to check Fastlane before that. And now this thread just woke me up from slavery. Damn!!!

Sorry to myself and i again commit to discipline.

@Seth Goodluck Thank you.
@Ninjakid Thanks for a in-depth definition which i didn't knew. Thanks man.


I have implemented discipline in my life and the world was revolving around me. Every thing was heavenly. I was still in rat race(still am) but because of disturbing the EGO and becoming another Identity, i always felt freedom. Ninjakid, this theory of yours just kicked the board.

The problem i always face with Discipline is consistency. Please guide me in this. I really tried, tried, tried, kicked, punched myself but still lacking in consistency of having Discipline.

Can someone help?
 

Everyman

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Discipline is the key to success. "Subkey".

You have been getting up at 5 am. You can even wake up at 4 am with 6-7 hrs of sleep. You don't care about long term health. You are obsessed with your idea. You don't care about friends, because your friends are the people who support your idea and support you with you struggle.

You don't care about your family saying maybe you should do something else, safer. There are so many failures in 'business'. The people that support your struggles and efforts become your family. The people who challenge you, in a positive way, that brings you closer to your main life goal.

Your mission.

Mindset goes first, above all. If you don't have the proper mindset, your discipline doesn't matter, because all the effort will go into vacuum. Disappear.

"One ring to rule them all one ring to find them" - MINDSET

Which ironically requires discipline to be worked on daily... (what was first - the egg or the chicken?).
 

SamRussell

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Love this. I've been self employed for years, so discipline was a big early work in progress. I went from waking up late and watching a few hours of TV, to waking up before the sun and working all day.

After becoming disciplined to get things done, I next had to work on getting the right things done... and I think I have slowly got the hang of that piece.

I'm starting on a new business and with a bit of discipline, I'm feeling good about it taking off.

I found that when I have a vision of the future that excites me, while the motivation varies day by day, it isn't terribly difficult to work consistently.
 

Ninjakid

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The problem i always face with Discipline is consistency. Please guide me in this. I really tried, tried, tried, kicked, punched myself but still lacking in consistency of having Discipline.

Can someone help?
You say you're in the slowlane, so this means you hold a job correct?

It's interesting because lots of people say they struggle with discipline, but almost everybody is ready to get up at a certain time, get in their car/on the bus at a certain time and make it to their job; and do that at least five days a week (then again, I have met people who can't even do that lol).

I would say whatever habit you're trying to form, pretend it's your job. There's great benefits to keeping your job and dire consequences to not.

And in a way, that's not totally untrue about the goals you set for yourself. The dire consequences of lacking discipline are that you never live up to your best self, despite the fact life is limited.
 

Rabby

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I was just thinking, and therefore writing, about this same thing. So, related thread: taming the octopus.

For anyone struggling with discipline, I recommend challenging your assumption of what the word means.

Some of us grew up thinking discipline is what happens when the grownups pull the switches down from the wall.

Or we think it's that painful moment at the end of a long run. We think it's gritting our teeth through something painful. But that is not discipline... it's just gritting our teeth through something painful.

The biggest feature of discipline is not following every impulse. That includes both active and inert impulses.

We choose our behavior, directing it by establishing a pattern of our choosing. Without establishing those patterns, we're at the mercy of, again, the octopus.

We'll follow every shiny object, every momentarily interesting thing, every potential mate, every potential business, every excuse to stay in bed, every distraction.

And by following everything, we'll get nowhere and do nothing.
 

BlackMagician

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You say you're in the slowlane, so this means you hold a job correct?

It's interesting because lots of people say they struggle with discipline, but almost everybody is ready to get up at a certain time, get in their car/on the bus at a certain time and make it to their job; and do that at least five days a week (then again, I have met people who can't even do that lol).

I would say whatever habit you're trying to form, pretend it's your job. There's great benefits to keeping your job and dire consequences to not.

And in a way, that's not totally untrue about the goals you set for yourself. The dire consequences of lacking discipline are that you never live up to your best self, despite the fact life is limited.

Thanks @Ninjakid. I will change my view and mindset as doing a Job for any discipline i will follow and will message you about the effect. Thanks again.

I am sticking this line in front of every place i spend time.

"The dire consequences of lacking discipline are that you never live up to your best self, despite the fact life is limited."
 

TonyStark

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I’m always astounded at people’s lack of “self” when it comes to leaving a job.

Like, was your job your entire identity as a person?

Are you not large enough to the point where you can make money being yourself?

Are your personal goals & desires not enough to propel you and others into the stratosphere?

This seems crazy to me.

You work to live life, you don’t live life to work.

F*ck that.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I was always ready to leave work/school and go home so I could work on my goals; things that mattered to me. Because that’s what makes me who I am.
 
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ForgetSuccess

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I’m always astounded at people’s lack of “self” when it comes to leaving a job.

Like, was your job your entire identity as a person?

Are you not large enough to the point where you can make money being yourself?

Are your personal goals & desires not enough to propel you and others into the stratosphere?

This seems crazy to me.

You work to live life, you don’t live life to work.

f*ck that.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I was always ready to leave work/school and go home so I could work on my goals; things that mattered to me. Because that’s what makes me who I am.

I think, to be honest, that you're spot on: yes, most people DON'T know what the hell to do with their lives. And that is something that JOBS DO provide, even if what you do on the job may not be 100% aligned with what your values or things you want to do are (in part also, because you don't REALLY KNOW what you want to do).

The job provides you with something to do in your life.

The job provides you with a group of individuals to spend your time with.

The job is a container, for the content of what you think your life comprises, to fill; but the thing is, the content is so malleable, so adaptable, that what you think you want is now what the company needs from you.

Now, that's just a generalisation, and the burgeoning want that most people might have is just not crystal clear enough perhaps, because there's also fear that shrouds it, there's the what-we're-supposed-to-do's that shrouds it, and all these things that muddies the waters of life.

At worst, I'd estimate that a great majority of people working might be latent nihilists :)
 

brewster

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Or you could go to the level where discipline isn't needed. Where you no longer have to be a "taskmaster" over yourself because you genuinely enjoy what you're doing. Where everything is more or less effortless, and if it needs to get done, it gets done.

That's not to say discipline doesn't serve a purpose if you, say, want to build a new habit.

But if you're relying on it over the long term?

I cringe at the thought...
 

MitchM

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I think that discipline is to a large degree a product of your standards.

Tony Robbins talks about this.

It’s not just a matter of how high you aspire, but what standards you hold for yourself. If it is within your standards to allow yourself to fall through on commitments that you’ve made - instead of being absolutely unnaceptable - then you will find excuses.

You need to look at what it is that you want to achieve in your life. Ask: How do I want my life to look in x years?

After doing this you can assess what standards you’re going to need to hold yourself to.

If you want to be the best guitarist in the world - you better be practicing all day every day and accept nothing else.

Meanwhile, if you only aspire to be able to play some campfire songs then 30 minutes a day for a little while will be fine.

If you fail to live up to these standards then it’s likely that you have distractions and patterns of behavior that are interfering.

You need to isolate these and focus on removing them. “Discipline” won’t flourish in the presence of distraction.
 

MitchM

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Or you could go to the level where discipline isn't needed. Where you no longer have to be a "taskmaster" over yourself because you genuinely enjoy what you're doing. Where everything is more or less effortless, and if it needs to get done, it gets done.

That's not to say discipline doesn't serve a purpose if you, say, want to build a new habit.

But if you're relying on it over the long term?

I cringe at the thought...
That’s a really good point.

Perhaps Discipline is a word used to describe a conflict between your desires and your actions.

I never needed discipline to train for soccer as a kid - because I loved it.

I think that the need for discipline comes in when society and life has gotten you into patterns that are detrimental. You’ve tasted comfort, sweets, and entertainment that is nice in the short term but that you’ve come to acknowledge will be damaging in the long term.

Discipline is the initial sacrifice that you make for something higher. Overtime as you reap the many rewards (short and long term) - it no longer feels like a sacrifice... and thus no longer requires discipline.

This is another reason why visualization is powerful. You’re increasing the presence of the desired result and thus increasing your desire for the action.

That disconnect between action and outcome is what gets so many of us.

Time kills dreams unless we make the right sacrifices at its alter.
 

Blek

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Good to talk, when somebody is on track.
I started with 5-HTP (as my friend advice me) and now consuming Happy Bee (coincidence / I found it after my 5-HTP supply ended/ third bottle).
It's not wunderwaffe - but it helps me.
 

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ForgetSuccess

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On the topic of discipline, I came across an answer on Quora, on a mission to figure out why I found it such a struggle to take action on things a lot of the time (quite demotivated at the mo')

Interesting perspective...

Hope it's OK to simply repost what he's saying here:

---
For all my life, I have been more or less an all or nothing kind of guy.

I’m either motivated or I’m not.

There’s not much in between, and I really struggle at faking it when I don’t feel it.

So for much of my life, I was labelled lazy by parents and teachers.

Eventually, I came to accept it, too.

But have you actually ever met a lazy small child?

I don’t mean active.

Some kids are just naturally content to be where they are.

But lazy, as in should do something but doesn't want to do it?

That kind of reality doesn’t even exist for a child.

They have no shoulds in their lives, except for the ones that adults force upon them.

But anyway, I was utterly and unwilling to be productive.

It wasn’t until the tender age of 39 when I came the inside-out understanding of the human experience that everything changed.

I realized I had been interpreting my emotions all wrong.

All that time, I had thought that not feeling motivated meant that it wasn’t the right thing for me to do at that time.

And if I felt insecure, I used to think it meant that I simply needed to prepare or practice more.

When you interpret life through that lens, it’s rather obvious that your life is going to be a series of starts and stops:

“Now I’m motivated - Now I’m not.”

What underpins this interpretation is the belief that our feelings are informing us of the outside world.

But what if that isn't the case?

What I saw when I came across this new understanding of the human mind was that we don’t live in the feeling of our circumstances, but rather we all live in the feeling of our thinking.

100% of the time, 100% of it.

(I don’t want to try to convince you that what I am saying is true. All I will say is that you can figure it out for yourself pretty quickly if you simply follow your own experience, and I’ll leave it at that.)

Now, if you see for yourself that you live in the feeling of your thinking, it will quickly become evident to you that the only thing you’ve ever experienced is your own thinking.

That doesn't mean that the world isn't there, but rather that it all comes to you via the mechanism of thought.

So every single thing you’ve experienced has come to you via thought.

Anyway, so the realization that put everything in place was this:

If all you feel is your thinking, how could your feelings possibly tell you anything about the outside world?

If all you feel is your thinking, doesn’t it stand to reason that all your thinking can tell you about is your own thinking.

The moment I saw the truth of that, I had a serious facepalm moment:

I was bored, because I had boring thinking, and I was demotivated because I had demotivated thinking.

That’s it.

That was the whole story.

When I saw that, it suddenly didn't matter so much how I felt when I needed to do something.

It was so obvious that all I was feeling was my thinking, so who cares about that?

My thoughts come and go - they don’t mean anything.

If you don’t believe me, sit down in one spot for long enough without distraction, and you too will see that you will go through all sorts of moods and feelings without anything on the outside changing.

To summarize, the point is this:

Look outside for motivation, and you’ll always be trying to manipulate and guilt yourself into action.

Look inside, and you can take action regardless of how you feel.

The choice is yours.
--- Antti Vanhanen
 

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