Who REALLY is the Millionaire?

[MJ DeMarco]

There have been some postings here about this Money Moustache character here in the forum (public) and on the Inside.

A question I'd like to pose to the audience here is this ...

WHO REALLY IS THE MILLIONAIRE?


JOE
----
Joe is 35 years old and has a net worth of $3.1 million dollars and is a successful lawyer. He works 6 days a week usually 8-10 hours a day. While Joe is successful and respected in his career, he really doesn't enjoy his work. After years in law school and a career that quickly got on the FastTrack, Joe feels compelled, or "guilted" into continuing his work, and his career. He lives in a nice 5,500 square foot house with a $900K mortgage and drives a $60K Audi. Joe really doesn't have much free time as it is usually spent sleeping or in case preparation. Joe is the "go to" guy at the firm and is well respected. He epitomizes the American Dream and is a MILLIONAIRE in terms of MONEY.


MANNY
-------
Manny is 35 years old and has a net worth of $620K and lives in a 1,200 square foot home that he owns outright with no mortgage and no HOA. Manny's spends his days doing as he pleases, usually crafting metal sculptures out of old discarded appliances. He sells them at the local craft fair every week. Manny is excruciatingly frugal and he has enough money to fund is lifestyle for years. Aiding this of course is that Manny was never was one for expensive cars, clothes, or gadgets - he simply likes his time. His car is a 13 year old Toyota with 144,000 miles and is tax deductible since he only uses it to transport his metal sculptures to fairs. (Manny does not need a car - he doesn't have a job and everything he needs in terms of living is just in walking distance.) Manny epitomizes an American Failure because he doesn't have a job, doesn't have an iPhone, and he drives around in a ratty Toyota wearing old clothes ... and yet, MANNY is a MILLIONAIRE in terms of TIME.

So the question is ...

Who really is the MILLIONAIRE?
And how are you evaluating the "term" Millionaire?

Some of you might be closer than you think...

 

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[biggeemac]

My response.......

When its all said and done, I envision myself living somewhere in between. My status will not be measured with money. I will never care if I could be considered a millionaire as long as I control resources as though I am a millionaire. I plan to live out my life on my companies dimes. I wish to spend my time doing whatever the hell I feel like.....probably building more businesses. I don't think that I will ever consider myself retired. To me, people that picture themselves retiring are the ones that really dont want to do anything but split their time between sitting on their asses, watching football, or playing golf......two things I cant see myself doing.

Like Manny, I will remain somewhat frugal, but will drop some real coin on something I really want. I've tried living frugal, but honestly, living really frugal has proven to be more work than getting off my a$$ and start my business. So earning more money is way easier than living frugal.

Thanks for helping me change my perspective MJ !

PS.....my employer matches 401k contributions up to 7%...... yay <in my "pathetic" voice>

 

[theag]

None of them. I want both time and money.

 

[MakeItHappen]

None of them. I want both time and money.

And it's easier to attain that by first making tons of money and than live of interest with tons of time than the other way around. ^^
That's why the Fastlane is so awesome to me! You don't have to grind a job you hate for 40+ years... the Fastlane shows you a system that gives you the possibility to make enough money within less than 10 years and you can be set for the rest of your life.
If it's just about time for you, i guess you can archive it with systems like the 4 hour work week but that's not enough for me... i also want a lot of cash so that i can do awesome stuff with the time i have!
Imo i would favor working 16hours/day 6days/week for up to ten years on my own business and than sell it for a lot $$$ so now i can do cool stuff with my free time. Sure i won't have any free time for about 10 years but the rest of my life will be awesome.

 

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[robotunicr0n]

In my definition neither is a millionaire, though that is based on the concept that we subsist in society based on labels. While this is unfortunately true, it is no where near accurate.

Regardless, as mentioned previously I want my time and my money. I have a bunch of goals that I want to be able to accomplish. Accomplishing those means, to me, that I am a millionaire because I won't be able to do them until I'm no longer shackled by a job. I am determined to complete these goals, so being a millionaire isn't even a question for me. I consider myself one now despite my net worth likely being negative. Agree or disagree, that's how I feel. I think it's a mindset, not a material measure.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I want my time and my money.

None of them. I want both time and money.

As do I.

The point of the illustration is to show that what makes some people happy doesn't necessarily make you happy. Personally, a "Manny" type existence would frustrate me because, while I like freedom of time, I also like freedom of action; hopping a plane and going somewhere, eating at a nice restaurant, doing whatever that might cost $$ etc.

 

[Bigguns50]

$$$... Joe wins!
Happiness...... Manny wins!

I would evaluate for the definition of Millionaire. These stories aren't about money really. They're about happiness.

Besides our basic human needs, what makes any one of us happy varies greatly, as does our degree of happiness. From 1-10.

Manny knows what he wants and he's living it happily. Who is anyone to judge.

Joe on the other hand seems miserable. He needs counseling.

***note: I wrote this and thought it posted before MJ's. It doesn't read well after MJ's.

 

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[robotunicr0n]

As do I.

The point of the illustration is to show that what makes some people happy doesn't necessarily make you happy. Personally, a "Manny" type existence would frustrate me because, while I like freedom of time, I also like freedom of action; hopping a plane and going somewhere, eating at a nice restaurant, doing whatever that might cost $$ etc.

I definitely agree. The definition you have of wealth in the Millionaire Fastlane has grown to be my precise feelings on the matter. I have so many things that I HAVE to accomplish in my life so I can make a difference in this world that I can't be tied down by a job until I'm 55. I have a non-profit that I feel obligated to start that will raise the technology level and knowledge of third world and inner city schools around the world. I have business ideas I want to make so I can provide invaluable services to everyone on the planet. I have a space going company to build from the ground up that will allow slowlaners to spend a moderate but affordable sum to travel into space. That's just the tip of the iceberg and doesn't include my travel plans (hint its not just every country and city in the world).

I can't do ANY of these things until I have the freedom of time and money. I couldn't stand being Joe. I hate being in a job if only because I'm surrounded by unmotivated people who are settling for 5 weeks traded for 2. I refuse to do that anymore. I can't leave my job yet, but my mindset certainly isn't here (I'm at least present enough mentally to keep my job but you get what I mean).

REALLY didn't mean to rant or post that long.. sorry.

tl;dr I agree MJ. I could be Joe.. I have to be Manny in that scenario.

 

[GuestUser8117]

I would say it's Manny. In my opinion, the quality of your life lies in the time that's available to you. Time to spend as you please. Time to relax. Time to reinforce relationships. Time to live your dreams, like writing a new book, travel. I don't think a lamborghini would make me happy despite me dreaming of owning one. For me, the millionaire who is not happy is miserable. And that's what I want to avoid.

 

[DeletedUser2]

manny has a limited freedom.

he has rearranged his view of freedom, and clipped off a lot of what is available to him in the world.

he is limited in what he can do, while its a good goal to have achieved this in a short period of time, he has only tossed the chains of a job.

but don't be fooled.

Life happens, things break, and shit goes haywire.

If joe lost everything he could go back and begin making serious money tomorrow, and recover much faster.


If Manny lost it all, how can you SAVE your way back to freedom with no income?

he has no real skill except his exceptional saving superpower. good on him.
but how many YEARS at even a nominal job, would manny need to return to his former, semi free state?


Joe, just needs to learn to be a better investor, putting the money into assets that stack up, and pay, freeing him.

Manny could get back much faster.

as with MJ, I enjoy taking off, and going to play. or explore, or visit, or see whats out there. when you realize there is a whole world out beyond your door, one that can be cool and exciting, and fun, you will often times yearn for that.

is it freedom to yearn for the experience of travel,
and have no way to reach it?
or cant afford it?


now, could a combo of both superpowers be combined?

could saving be combined with earning?
probably a good super power to have....


Z

 

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[OzGrinder]

I agree with Zen.

Joe could resign tomorrow pay off his debt, learn to live a bit more frugally and invest wisely and be in a much better position than Manny, knowing full well that he can return to a well paying job in the future due to his experience/knowledge.

People like Joe stay in those jobs because they are addicted to the power/success/income and the way that people perceive them, which are the wrong reasons. He's free to leave his job tomorrow if he can free himself from those self imposed shackles, and if he's that in demand could probably wind back a bit and work part time, or take up a more relaxed role for less salary.

I'd rather be Joe, just with a bit more financial sense and self awareness...

 

[rorschach]

Both are pretty extreme but in this case I'd have to choose Manny's side. Here's why:

• In this scenario he's the guy that has reached his goal.
• He has the most control over his life. He can choose the people who he hangs out with. He has the time to learn new skills and improve his craft.
• He's working in an optimal state. There's no "stuff" that can clutter his mind. He's working because he wants to, not because he has to.
• He produces something and puts himself out there. He's giving himself a chance to get lucky.
• He seems a lot happier.

Here's why I wouldn't want to be Joe:

• He seems damn miserable
• His mind is constantly getting pulled in different directions
• He's miserable, so he's probably not putting in 100% of his effort
• Did I mention he seems miserable?

Like all the others, though, I want something in between.

 

[TK1]

 

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[CommonCents]

Joe may be not happy w/ career but he has options if he chooses, unless SHTF. If SHTF, then most of us are fooked anyway! Joe could relatively quickly downsize even if he has to take a haircut. Joe could lose his arms and legs and still practice law.

I'd wonder where Manny got his money. From only selling scrap sculpture at fairs? Manny is a hand/arm break or injury/illness away from disaster. Manny is slow lane in trading his time for money. Unless he can teach others to make his sculptures for him.

Obviously lots of assumptions and few facts so each side can be rationalized either way. In the end, its a personal decision of what is most important in your life and make it happen, choose your own level of risk, own choice of balancing happiness and survival.

I recommend everyone to interview old people. The ones who have learned life's humbling lessons, a lifetime of experiences that cut through the BS to give clarity. Their regrets, their fond memories, what they learned is important etc.....and you find a fairly common denominator.

 

[DeletedUser2]

I'd wonder where Manny got his money. From only selling scrap sculpture at fairs? Manny is a hand/arm break or injury/illness away from disaster. Manny is slow lane in trading his time for money. Unless he can teach others to make his sculptures for him.

manny SAVED money from a prior job, now is using it and being super frugal to create TIME.

Sculptures are just what he chooses to spend his time on. its his hobby, not his income


Still,

Its Hard to save your way back to wealth with no income.



Joe, Miserable as he is, Still can MAKE money when needed. Manny Can Save money, he isnt making...


Z

 

[bophisto]

I agree having time and money is ideal. But given the scenarios above i'd rather be Manny. He is actually enjoying life.

If Joe stopped working giving his spending he'd probably blow through the 3.1million net worth pretty quickly.

One question is Manny's only income from selling his crafts ? Even with a paid off house there are still a lot of other expenses...of course you can choose to limit those expenses as manny has.

Some mentioned that Joe can learn to live a different lifestyle/be more frugal..then he would perhaps be able to work less?..
but I feel it is very rare that people voluntarily downsize. They usually have to do it because they are forced to downsize .

Also I don't feel too bad for Joe, because even though he 'trades time for money' and works 8-10 hours a day..he is being compensated well for that time. There are many many people that work 8-10 hours a day at minimum wage...I guess your typical sidewalkers or slowlaners.

 

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