Is Kindle Fiction publishing still a viable business?

[Madhu]

It obviously is, given the progress ChickenHawk is making. However, I am talking about hiring a writer (on sites like Upwork) to make books. This method has a bad rap as it is often used to produce rubbish for a quick buck. But there is no reason why a quality writer can’t be used.

For the longest time, I thought fiction was a good choice, as readers consume a lot of books in their chosen niche, so you don’t need to worry as much as about outperforming the competition (as you do with non-fiction, where a reader will gravitate to the top books in a niche).

However, Luca De Stefani recently posted a video saying that fiction is no longer viable for the following reasons:
• Most fictions readers subscribe to Kindle Unlimited, where the payout is just under 1¢ per 2 pages. So you need a 215 page book to earn a single dollar.
• High price competition makes it hard to sell a book for more than 0.99
• Kindle book readers don’t tend to buy the higher revenue paperback or audio editions.

Obviously Lucs sells a Kindle non-fiction course, so his perspective will be slanted.

However, his comments do match up with my experience. Two months ago I released a book in the interracial romance niche. My book got strong reviews (as it was a quality product), but the earnings have been poor. I’ve struggled to make $80 in total over 3 months (avg $26/month) and the monthly earnings have been steadily dropping (last month it was $10).

As this was my first attempt, making a quality book was costly, as I had to fire poor performing writers midway. At the time, the cost seemed worth it as I was anticipating to make $200 a month and so could recoup in 3 months. But that doesn't seem likely now.

I’d love to make a second book and could probably produce it for $390 as I’ve now learnt how to spot the warning signs of a bad writer. But if $26/month is the most I can earn, it doesn’t seem like it will be a viable business.

I know with my first book I did make a few errors in the direction of the plot, but I've learnt from these, so I might have better success next time. But I can't see the earnings jumping up dramatically from $26/month.

I’d love to hear some opinions on the viability of this type of business!

 

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[Lex DeVille]

It obviously is, given the progress ChickenHawk is making. However, I am talking about hiring a writer (on sites like Upwork) to make books. This method has a bad rap as it is often used to produce rubbish for a quick buck. But there is no reason why a quality writer can’t be used.

For the longest time, I thought fiction was a good choice, as readers consume a lot of books in their chosen niche, so you don’t need to worry as much as about outperforming the competition (as you do with non-fiction, where a reader will gravitate to the top books in a niche).

However, Luca De Stefani recently posted a video saying that fiction is no longer viable for the following reasons:
• Most fictions readers subscribe to Kindle Unlimited, where the payout is just under 1¢ per 2 pages. So you need a 215 page book to earn a single dollar.
• High price competition makes it hard to sell a book for more than 0.99
• Kindle book readers don’t tend to buy the higher revenue paperback or audio editions.

Obviously Lucs sells a Kindle non-fiction course, so his perspective will be slanted.

However, his comments do match up with my experience. Two months ago I released a book in the interracial romance niche. My book got strong reviews (as it was a quality product), but the earnings have been poor. I’ve struggled to make $80 in total over 3 months (avg $26/month) and the monthly earnings have been steadily dropping (last month it was $10).

As this was my first attempt, making a quality book was costly, as I had to fire poor performing writers midway. At the time, the cost seemed worth it as I was anticipating to make $200 a month and so could recoup in 3 months. But that doesn't seem likely now.

I’d love to make a second book and could probably produce it for $390 as I’ve now learnt how to spot the warning signs of a bad writer. But if $26/month is the most I can earn, it doesn’t seem like it will be a viable business.

I know with my first book I did make a few errors in the direction of the plot, but I've learnt from these, so I might have better success next time. But I can't see the earnings jumping up dramatically from $26/month.

I’d love to hear some opinions on the viability of this type of business!

Yes

*edit*

The yes was only to your title.

If you can hire quality writers and focus on marketing you can probably make it happen. Build an email list for a compounding effect over time. Not gonna happen overnight.

 

[Omni]

Yes. 100% agree with everything @SinisterLex said above.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

All these calculations about money, returns, payments per page... simply f*cking amazing.

It's astounding the amount of effort people will expend to avoid the real effort that produces real success. Instead of coming to a channel to push a viable value proposition, they come to the channel because it's a money opportunity. SMH.

I'll probably write a lot of books in my time, and not ONE freaking thing mentioned here is something Ill think about before writing -- I'm not concerned about "Kindle" being viable.

In the end, people struggle and mud in mediocrity because they are entirely focused on the wrong things.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

Good Fiction Is Like Good Beer

IMO, the outsourcing model is a dangerous route, especially when it comes to fiction. Yes, Kindle Unlimited is a factor, but the other thing is "voice."

What is voice? Let me relate this to beer. If you're a beer-lover, you can probably tell the difference between Bud and Corona. But take someone like me. I'm NOT a beer-drinker. All brands taste the same to me. But to someone who loves beer, there are slight differences, subtle things that you can't even explain. But they're still there, and you know it when you taste it.

When you outsource your writing, especially if you outsource it to multiple writers, you're serving up an inconsistent product. Even if your ghost-writers are all very good (unlikely, btw), you're in for a challenge. Why? Because the REAL money is fiction is earned by satisfying repeat-customers, people who become fans. It's very hard to build fans if your product is inconsistent.

Back to my beer example. A reader buys book #1. It's Corona. They LOVE it. So they gulp it down fast and buy another. But THIS one is Bud. "What the hell? This is different. I don't like Bud. I like Corona. Where's my damn Corona?!!" They buy a third one. But THIS one is Duff Beer. Now they're pissed. "What the hell is THIS swill? I want my money back! And I'm going to leave a one-star review, too, telling everyone that this writer's quality has really gone downhill."

The only way you can combat writing-inconsistency is by superior, extensive editing. For example, the Nancy Drew books were written by different authors. But they were shepherded along by professional editors who were BRUTAL about keeping the brand and voice consistent. Do you have that skill? It's unlikely, not only because you're not a professional editor, but also because you don't love fiction the way beer-lovers love beer. You can't even TELL the difference between Fiction-Bud or Fiction-Corona, so how can you fix the problem? You can't. (I'd be willing to bet that you don't even read romance novels. I'm not saying this to judge you. I'm only pointing out that this is similar to me, a non-beer-drinker, trying to produce a decent, consistent brew. It would be nearly impossible.)

Now, back to where you are now...You've only served up one product. The market didn't love it. But let's say you try again. You release another book under the same pen name. And this time, the market loves it. Yay! But what then? Your new fans will try out book #1 and be disappointed, because they were expecting Corona, and Book#1 is Duff.

• High price competition makes it hard to sell a book for more than 0.99

This is true. But if you build a base of loyal fans, you can compete on things other than price. If you check Amazon's top 100 list, lots of books are priced higher. But odds are pretty good that none of these books were outsourced.

Hope all of that helps! Or at least provides food for thought.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Good Fiction Is Like Good Beer

IMO, the outsourcing model is a dangerous route, especially when it comes to fiction. Yes, Kindle Unlimited is a factor, but the other thing is "voice."

What is voice? Let me relate this to beer. If you're a beer-lover, you can probably tell the difference between Bud and Corona. But take someone like me. I'm NOT a beer-drinker. All brands taste the same to me. But to someone who loves beer, there are slight differences, subtle things that you can't even explain. But they're still there, and you know it when you taste it.

When you outsource your writing, especially if you outsource it to multiple writers, you're serving up an inconsistent product. Even if your ghost-writers are all very good (unlikely, btw), you're in for a challenge. Why? Because the REAL money is fiction is earned by satisfying repeat-customers, people who become fans. It's very hard to build fans if your product is inconsistent.

Back to my beer example. A reader buys book #1. It's Corona. They LOVE it. So they gulp it down fast and buy another. But THIS one is Bud. "What the hell? This is different. I don't like Bud. I like Corona. Where's my damn Corona?!!" They buy a third one. But THIS one is Duff Beer. Now they're pissed. "What the hell is THIS swill? I want my money back! And I'm going to leave a one-star review, too, telling everyone that this writer's quality has really gone downhill."

The only way you can combat writing-inconsistency is by superior, extensive editing. For example, the Nancy Drew books were written by different authors. But they were shepherded along by professional editors who were BRUTAL about keeping the brand and voice consistent. Do you have that skill? It's unlikely, not only because you're not a professional editor, but also because you don't love fiction the way beer-lovers love beer. You can't even TELL the difference between Fiction-Bud or Fiction-Corona, so how can you fix the problem? You can't. (I'd be willing to bet that you don't even read romance novels. I'm not saying this to judge you. I'm only pointing out that this is similar to me, a non-beer-drinker, trying to produce a decent, consistent brew. It would be nearly impossible.)

Now, back to where you are now...You've only served up one product. The market didn't love it. But let's say you try again. You release another book under the same pen name. And this time, the market loves it. Yay! But what then? Your new fans will try out book #1 and be disappointed, because they were expecting Corona, and Book#1 is Duff.


This is true. But if you build a base of loyal fans, you can compete on things other than price. If you check Amazon's top 100 list, lots of books are priced higher. But odds are pretty good that none of these books were outsourced.

Hope all of that helps! Or at least provides food for thought.

Awesome post... making this featured...

 

[Lex DeVille]

Good Fiction Is Like Good Beer

IMO, the outsourcing model is a dangerous route, especially when it comes to fiction. Yes, Kindle Unlimited is a factor, but the other thing is "voice."

What is voice? Let me relate this to beer. If you're a beer-lover, you can probably tell the difference between Bud and Corona. But take someone like me. I'm NOT a beer-drinker. All brands taste the same to me. But to someone who loves beer, there are slight differences, subtle things that you can't even explain. But they're still there, and you know it when you taste it.

When you outsource your writing, especially if you outsource it to multiple writers, you're serving up an inconsistent product. Even if your ghost-writers are all very good (unlikely, btw), you're in for a challenge. Why? Because the REAL money is fiction is earned by satisfying repeat-customers, people who become fans. It's very hard to build fans if your product is inconsistent.

Back to my beer example. A reader buys book #1. It's Corona. They LOVE it. So they gulp it down fast and buy another. But THIS one is Bud. "What the hell? This is different. I don't like Bud. I like Corona. Where's my damn Corona?!!" They buy a third one. But THIS one is Duff Beer. Now they're pissed. "What the hell is THIS swill? I want my money back! And I'm going to leave a one-star review, too, telling everyone that this writer's quality has really gone downhill."

The only way you can combat writing-inconsistency is by superior, extensive editing. For example, the Nancy Drew books were written by different authors. But they were shepherded along by professional editors who were BRUTAL about keeping the brand and voice consistent. Do you have that skill? It's unlikely, not only because you're not a professional editor, but also because you don't love fiction the way beer-lovers love beer. You can't even TELL the difference between Fiction-Bud or Fiction-Corona, so how can you fix the problem? You can't. (I'd be willing to bet that you don't even read romance novels. I'm not saying this to judge you. I'm only pointing out that this is similar to me, a non-beer-drinker, trying to produce a decent, consistent brew. It would be nearly impossible.)

Now, back to where you are now...You've only served up one product. The market didn't love it. But let's say you try again. You release another book under the same pen name. And this time, the market loves it. Yay! But what then? Your new fans will try out book #1 and be disappointed, because they were expecting Corona, and Book#1 is Duff.


This is true. But if you build a base of loyal fans, you can compete on things other than price. If you check Amazon's top 100 list, lots of books are priced higher. But odds are pretty good that none of these books were outsourced.

Hope all of that helps! Or at least provides food for thought.

I wrote an ebook several months ago from the freelancer side of the house. $300 for 25,000 words. Not even a novel.

Compared to Copywriting gigs the rate was insanely low but I wanted to do a little fiction writing so I did it anyway.

It was super easy because I didn't have to think about writing to sell, only writing to please the client.

About halfway through I remembered why I hated writing romance so much and got burnt out.

Personally I thought it turned out like shit but the client was very happy with it.

He published it, then came back several weeks later for more of the series.

Unfortunately I never agreed to write more and had no intention of doing so.

In the end he was out of luck and I didn't care. Not my problem he didn't ask for a series up front.

I don't know if he got someone else to take over, but I know it's unlikely they tapped the same style.

More likely he broke even, or didn't get his money out of it and I walked away with $300.

You'll deal with that regularly with freelancers except most won't bother with grammar or plot or anything that matters.

Most have never even written a book before. (I've been on the hiring side too.)

 

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[Madhu]

@SinisterLex, @Omni, @MJ DeMarco, @ChickenHawk
Thanks for the replies. I really do appreciate them, especially ChickenHawk’s excellent beer analogy, MJ DeMarco’s value comments and @SinisterLex's experiences.

It's astounding the amount of effort people will expend to avoid the real effort that produces real success. Instead of coming to a channel to push a viable value proposition, they come to the channel because it's a money opportunity. SMH.

This is the value I tried to bring with my first book:
• Find out what readers don’t like about the existing books (For my first book I researched this extensively).
• Create a book that solves this problem.
• Test the book with a small sample to see if they were happy with the book and then modify it if there are any issues.

But I think now, maybe that’s the problem… Maybe the value being offered is not enough.

After completing my first book, I did feel I had skills in the researching and idea generation part, so maybe I need to think a bit more about if it is possible to apply these skills in a more valuable way (maybe even in another avenue completely).

Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it.

 

[Selfy]

Have you thought about writing them yourself? Check out Nicholas Spark, he's writing romance all the way to the bank.

 

[Omni]

As a publishing house hiring ghostwriters for fiction, here's my take on it.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with outsourcing, as long as you can guarantee the quality of the writing. (Either with your own knowledge or by hiring experienced editors.) @ChickenHawk is absolutely right about voice. Your readers aren't stupid and are probably as educated as you, so if you're using multiple writers for 1 pen name, you won't be around for long unless you have editors to ensure consistency.

Outsourcing Writing vs Writing Yourself

Advantages of outsourcing writing

1. Shipping faster and more often. You know how releasing the next book is the best form of marketing? Well, outsourcing allows for much quicker speed to market. And when everyone else in your genre is writing a book every 6 months, while you can publish 1 every month, who do you think is going to get the customers?
2. Specialization. If your writer's only focus is writing, your editor's only focus is editing and your only focus is marketing, you would do a much better job than an author who juggles writing, marketing, formatting, admin, etc.
3. Scalable. With the right processes in place, this becomes a business rather than a high paying job.

Disadvantages of outsourcing writing

1. Key man dependency. For consistent voice, a ghostwriter needs to continually represent that particular pen name. So if you lose the writer, chances are you lose the pen name and some of the following. This is always the risk with high skilled labor. And what do you do to keep valuable employees? Maintain good relationships with them, ask them what they're looking for and see how you can help them achieve their goals. Or you always have employees coming in and training them to improve so they become higher skilled labor.
2. Requires a fair amount of starting capital. Since you'll be paying writers upfront and collecting royalties 2-3 months from now. And that's assuming you've found a niche where you can fill a gap.
3. Building out processes takes time. Processes need to be there to ensure the writing quality is high. Hiring the right people, firing the wrong ones, and determining how they should interact with one another takes time. And most of the people who look to self publishing as a get rich quick scheme won't have the persistence to see this through.

OP either hasn't stayed in the niche long enough to get customers and visibility, hasn't published enough titles to increase the LTV of customers, picked a niche that has high competition and/or low demand, or doesn't add enough value to existing niche for customers to choose their product over others.

 

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[Madhu]

@Omni Thanks for such useful input!

I actually got an email from a reader asking when the next book will be released, as she loved the first one (and in particular she liked the ideas I had come up with for the writer to follow). So maybe I am adding enough value.

Maybe it's just my expectation of breaking even in 3 months which is unrealistic, especially as I haven't built up a catalogue. (It's just one book so far). Perhaps if I have a large enough catalogue, I'll get more reads and so a higher KENP payout. I will have to think about it.

Have you thought about writing them yourself? Check out Nicholas Spark, he's writing romance all the way to the bank.

At first, I didn't think I had the skills to do it. But after going through the process, I am considering it. I'd probably more suited to a genre like cosy mysteries, as I read a lot more of them (well, I actually "listen" to audio narrations of the books).

 

[dashinggamer]

Good Fiction Is Like Good Beer

IMO, the outsourcing model is a dangerous route, especially when it comes to fiction. Yes, Kindle Unlimited is a factor, but the other thing is "voice."

What is voice? Let me relate this to beer. If you're a beer-lover, you can probably tell the difference between Bud and Corona. But take someone like me. I'm NOT a beer-drinker. All brands taste the same to me. But to someone who loves beer, there are slight differences, subtle things that you can't even explain. But they're still there, and you know it when you taste it.

When you outsource your writing, especially if you outsource it to multiple writers, you're serving up an inconsistent product. Even if your ghost-writers are all very good (unlikely, btw), you're in for a challenge. Why? Because the REAL money is fiction is earned by satisfying repeat-customers, people who become fans. It's very hard to build fans if your product is inconsistent.

Back to my beer example. A reader buys book #1. It's Corona. They LOVE it. So they gulp it down fast and buy another. But THIS one is Bud. "What the hell? This is different. I don't like Bud. I like Corona. Where's my damn Corona?!!" They buy a third one. But THIS one is Duff Beer. Now they're pissed. "What the hell is THIS swill? I want my money back! And I'm going to leave a one-star review, too, telling everyone that this writer's quality has really gone downhill."

The only way you can combat writing-inconsistency is by superior, extensive editing. For example, the Nancy Drew books were written by different authors. But they were shepherded along by professional editors who were BRUTAL about keeping the brand and voice consistent. Do you have that skill? It's unlikely, not only because you're not a professional editor, but also because you don't love fiction the way beer-lovers love beer. You can't even TELL the difference between Fiction-Bud or Fiction-Corona, so how can you fix the problem? You can't. (I'd be willing to bet that you don't even read romance novels. I'm not saying this to judge you. I'm only pointing out that this is similar to me, a non-beer-drinker, trying to produce a decent, consistent brew. It would be nearly impossible.)

Now, back to where you are now...You've only served up one product. The market didn't love it. But let's say you try again. You release another book under the same pen name. And this time, the market loves it. Yay! But what then? Your new fans will try out book #1 and be disappointed, because they were expecting Corona, and Book#1 is Duff.


This is true. But if you build a base of loyal fans, you can compete on things other than price. If you check Amazon's top 100 list, lots of books are priced higher. But odds are pretty good that none of these books were outsourced.

Hope all of that helps! Or at least provides food for thought.

Amazing comparison & neatly explained. That is why one should prefer non-fiction books if their only goal is to make money, unless you yourself are a better writer at fiction.

 

[Mattie]

Personally I agree with chicken hawk. We put to much work in research, learning the skill, the dialogue, screen writing mixed with technical and grammar skills to give out a quality product. There's so much more in depth than out sourcing and being inconsistent.

Any writer who takes it seriously knows how much work goes into it to bring quality writing. Even just learning from reading M.J.'s book you can tell the difference between just throwing it to someone and say here, write my book for me.

 

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[Madhu]

Personally I agree with chicken hawk. We put to much work in research, learning the skill, the dialogue, screen writing mixed with technical and grammar skills to give out a quality product. There's so much more in depth than out sourcing and being inconsistent.

Any writer who takes it seriously knows how much work goes into it to bring quality writing. Even just learning from reading M.J.'s book you can tell the difference between just throwing it to someone and say here, write my book for me.

Is there any reason why an outsourced writers can't have the skills you mentioned? (aside from the voice issues that ChickenHawk mentioned)

Is it because if they had those skills, then they wouldn't be doing outsourcing as they'd be successful from their own books? (I'm not try to challenge your view point, I just trying to genuinely understand it.)

Thanks again to everyone who posted in this thread. The comments are really helpful.

 

[Selfy]

Is there any reason why an outsourced writers can't have the skills you mentioned? (aside from the voice issues that ChickenHawk mentioned)

Is it because if they had those skills, then they wouldn't be doing outsourcing as they'd be successful from their own books? (I'm not try to challenge your view point, I just trying to genuinely understand it.)

Word length is like a rope around a writer's neck, the higher the word count, the more likely a writer ends up choking on the story.

 

[Omni]

Is there any reason why an outsourced writers can't have the skills you mentioned? (aside from the voice issues that ChickenHawk mentioned)

Is it because if they had those skills, then they wouldn't be doing outsourcing as they'd be successful from their own books? (I'm not try to challenge your view point, I just trying to genuinely understand it.)

Thanks again to everyone who posted in this thread. The comments are really helpful.

Outsourced writers can absolutely have the same skill level. You'll need trustworthy editors to quality control and you'll need to dig through all the writers who just want to hit word count with fluff. Again, it takes time, but it's doable.

 

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