Is a College degree worth it? Ask these people.

[DavidofMN]

Here's a Yahoo article about whether College is worth it or not.

College Debt Article

Makes me think about what I am teaching my kids about going to college if they want to.

 

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[Milenko]

Go figure, people who get a degree in a skill set that isn't marketable are having trouble paying off their school loans. That first guy is fine he just feels entitled to more than he's making. $60k just out of school with zero experience is probably more than he's worth anyway.

For non-entrepreneurial types, a college degree in liberal arts, sociology, criminal justice, political science and the like - degrees that give you a bunch of debt with no marketable skills - aren't worth it right now. Degrees that give you marketable skills and have actual employers and job descriptions that demand those skills can definitely be worth it.

Someone who assumed debt for a degree with the belief that they'll be guaranteed a job when they graduate made an intellectually lazy decision in the first place. It's not the fault of the college, employers, the economy, or the government. It's their fault.

 

[Autonomust]

Go figure, people who get a degree in a skill set that isn't marketable are having trouble paying off their school loans. That first guy is fine he just feels entitled to more than he's making. $60k just out of school with zero experience is probably more than he's worth anyway.

For non-entrepreneurial types, a college degree in liberal arts, sociology, criminal justice, political science and the like - degrees that give you a bunch of debt with no marketable skills - aren't worth it right now. Degrees that give you marketable skills and have actual employers and job descriptions that demand those skills can definitely be worth it.

Someone who assumed debt for a degree with the belief that they'll be guaranteed a job when they graduate made an intellectually lazy decision in the first place. It's not the fault of the college, employers, the economy, or the government. It's their fault.

Even people with marketable degrees are having problems right now because of one reason or another.

 

[Milenko]

Even people with marketable degrees are having problems right now because of one reason or another.

Maybe I'm delusional :coco: but I assert that people who are out of work who claim to be good employees and claim to have marketable skills either aren't good employees, don't have marketable skills, or aren't willing to put in the time and effort it takes to earn (not be given) an appropriate job.

They're simply justifying their inability to achieve something they're not willing to work for.

 

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[Autonomust]

Maybe I'm delusional :coco: but I assert that people who are out of work who claim to be good employees and claim to have marketable skills either aren't good employees, don't have marketable skills, or aren't willing to put in the time and effort it takes to earn (not be given) an appropriate job.

They're simply justifying their inability to achieve something they're not willing to work for.

The good employee part is questionable, but the marketable skills part I can agree with because some people may have worked in a field for "x amount" of time but how much did they really learn? And yea I agree with the entitlement attitude that alot of people have since most people want things handed to them (like you said).

But theres always other factors like oversaturation and downsizing within industries too that can make it harder to get employment.

 

[DeletedUser394]

Tuition for an entire semester of post secondary education in Quebec cost me only $165 per semester (yes, one hundred and sixty five dollars... and it was tax deductible lol). Plus books which may have been only $200-$400.

 

[Ska2free]

I think college debt should be weighed like any other kind of productive debt...like a business loan for example. If I think borrowing to buy a piece of equipment for $100k will make my biz more than that, then it's worth taking on the debt. I'm simplifying, but the point is some amount of debt may be worth the right degree or knowledge.

Too many students don't have enough knowledge of the real world to accurately judge student debt vs. Future earnings, so they make bad decisions and have warped expectations. It's just stupid to think you can borrow $185k and have a starting salary that will allow you to pay that off easily.

I think this points to one critical lack of early (thru hi school) education...personal money management skills. Whether you want to start a business or not, kids should be taught a hell of a lot more about how debt works/enslaves, and get at least the basics of budgeting. Let's be honest, the vast majority of people are not interested or able to go the entrepreneurial route, but systemic crippling debt is not going to help anyone over the long term. (well, actually it may make a very few people absurdly wealthy, but I'm thinking of the broader societal good)

For myself, I owed about $40k at the end of my masters...I carefully considered whether the degree would be marketable and worth its cost, and though I hated having the debt, I think it helped open many doors and was worth it. I made minimum allowable payments in the first 8 years out of school while starting my business, then was able to simply pay off the outstanding balance ($30k) in one lump payment because my cash flow is very different now than it was before. I don't think I could have started or grown my particular biz without it, but will also admit that I don't think I could have paid it off as quickly from the slow lane.

I'm a big fan of the gap year...give kids a year to grow up and figure out what life costs, before they spend thousands in the college bubble.

 

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[bkypes]

I watched this video on youtube that had some great points about college. Even though its an hour long it was worth it for me since I just graduated high school

YouTube - ‪College Conspiracy‬‏

 

[Brootal]

Besides the argument of whether or not a college degree is worth it, my feeling is that a college degree for most majors is not worth the extra money from a "TOP SCHOOL" @ 50K a freakin year!!!

Most of the time when I read these articles, I see a common theme: the students paid a huge amount to go to a school with a big name, and now find they aren't worth much more in the market.

I went to a state school and paid in-state tuition with room and board. My education TOTAL over the 4 years cost me about $40,000 after deducting what I received in local scholarships. I truly believe that anyone willing to put in the work to look for and apply for scholarships can get them. There are literally hundreds out there.

I worked part time during school and full time during the summer. I was damn near broke throughout school but came out with no loans to pay off. In college you don't really need much money anyway.

Anyway, now out of college, I am in an engineering position working right next to guys with degrees from "TOP SCHOOLS" with huge loans.

 

[Russ H]

Interesting thread.

I went to college (a long time ago-- dinosaurs still roamed the earth :smxB: ), and felt it was worth it at the time.

I'd like to shift the discussion over a bit: Employability.

Had an interesting discussion w/an old friend day before yesterday.

We're both business owners. He had just gotten off the plane from China a few hours earlier and made a surprise appearance at my B-day party.

Dude did the same thing last time I was at Club 33 (Disneyland). He loves to surprise me.

I have a lot of respect for his perspective-- it's very global.

He made the following points:

(please do not read politics into this-- he was talking economics)

Economists have discoverd that, in a labor force where you have a bunch of people that want to work, in reality, only about 92-95% of them are actually employable.

The other 5-7% are pretty much unemployable on some level-- they have personal, emotional, or health issues, are chronically late, or have other things that pretty much make them not good employees (drug problems, personality disorders, etc).

But they're still included in the labor pool numbers, because they *want* to get a job.

"So", he asked: "What happens when you have 8% unemployment, and 5-7% are unemployable? That leaves only 1-3% of the folks that might be good employees. That's a horribly small subset-- and it means that most of the applications you get in will most probably come from people who will not be employable."

Fascinating concept. Made tons of sense.

Why did it make sense?

Because we've been hearing about a "jobless recovery" ever since the recession hit. And I can tell you-- we've been interviewing folks for the past several months for a MINIMUM WAGE ($8/hr) position, and have been absolutely STUNNED at the number of people who are looking for work---and---- have references that just plain don't check out.

We also hired several people last year, for higher pay, that were flat out problems (ie, unemployable).

Kinda makes you think.

That's why what my buddy said rang true-- perhaps there is a certain percentage of the population that is just plain unemployable. He pointed out that Europe has known this for some time-- that the cries of "socialism" for the welfare state in the Western European countries are actually places that have MUCH higher levels of productivity/profitability per worker (look at Germany's stats and you'll see what I mean).

But they still have people on the dole (ie, welfare).

His point was that they do this on purpose-- to keep the mediocre employees OUT of the workforce.

The thought is-- doing this makes the whole economy more efficient, since they didn't have to deal w/idiots as much.

Pretty amazing concept, if you ask me.

(and please-- NO POLITICAL COMMENTS-- I'm just relaying some thoughts put to me by a friend. He was not talking in a political context-- he was looking at it from an economic perspective.

His point?

That not everyone *should* be working.

Some should be taken care of (or 'exported', or ??)-- because they will never be good workers.

AND (another point he made) was that if you wanted to get good people, you stood a much better chance hiring a head hunter to "steal" one from another company than draw from the pool of unemployed.

Again-- fascinating food for thought here.

-Russ H.

 

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[Graves]

Just my opinion but I don't think we need to be so careful about politics, I would guess 99% of the members on this forum have the same "political views" anyway.

 

[mindfulimmortal]

College Degree and Gatekeepers

The 80/20 rule could probably be applied to this question. I would guess that 80% of college degree's are not worth it and the 20% are only worth it because there is some gatekeeper (government regulation, industry standard, company required, etc.)
Good questions to ask yourself are:
Is a degree required by some outside regulator/gatekeeper?
What skills would I be learning in college and could I learn them more efficiently through other means (books, mentoring, research, related activities, etc.)

There is a cost for everything and my experience is college was a much higher price to pay ($$$ and knowledge transfer) than what it gave me. aka very poor business decision.

I am currently reading The Personal MBA by Josh Kaufman which fall in line with this discussion. Josh advocates that a MBA is a waste of money and time. He has a list of 99 books which he recommends reading instead. Great book so far and online blog to read. Cheers!

 

[Matt Williams]

I took a few college classes but didn't finish.

I've always thought there were a lot of jobs that require a degree but there was nothing that you couldn't learn on the job.

If you can find a mentor to show and work along with you, you would learn a lot more in 4 years rather than go to school and then start the job already in debt.

Obviously, you need to go to school for anything in the medical field or something technical like that.

But take something like a restaurant manager. Some places won't hire you to be a manager unless you have a degree. Now to me, that's a waste of money and time. A person interested in becoming a manager can work hard and learn while working. He/she does not need to go to college for 4 years. If I owned a restaurant, I'd be much more willing to promote my cook/server that I trust rather than some guy off the street w/ a degree in Hotel/Restaurant management. He's going to want more money to begin with and I won't know how hard of a worker he is until after I hire him. On the other hand, I would trust my cook that has been by my side for the last 4 or 5 years and I know he works his a$$ off.

To me, if you are going to college, there has to be a specific reason. Just getting a degree for the sake of having a degree is not a good reason and a lot of people waste time and money this way.

 

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[leono]

I think the problem with college degrees today has alot to do with the Commandment of Entry. These days there aren't any "real" barriers to going to college. In fact, most kids who graduate high school are automatically funneled into college, wheras 50 or so years ago most of those kids would be getting a job. The reason a college degree was so prestigious back in the day, was because so few actually got one. And now that "everyone" is getting a college degree, naturally it's worth less. Nowadays, most people are talking about getting a master's degree to stay competitive, next will be the ph.d. It'll be interesting to see where we go from there.

 

[joona]

Great discussion.

I think it is a combination of few things what others have mentioned before: marketability & employability.

Case in point. My girlfriends sister and her husband are both architects. Definitely a cool education as you need licenses to practice that (At least in most countries) so not everyone can do that. So they do have marketable skills. However, because the financial crisis the amount of building projects is down. No one is investing, no one is building. No one needs architects.

Then again if you are employable as a person - good worker, willing learner etc but you don't have any track proven track record or merits... Then getting a job can be difficult for you. Employability doesn't mean anything if you don't have marketable skills (or relationships that allow you to get started).

So, from my point of view you need Marketable skills that are in need as well as Employable character.

 

[JamesSJ]

Nice article here

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/o...omise-of-college.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

Personally I think it's less worth it these days unless you're looking to get into something such as a science or medical for example.

I think there's more value in on the ground experience. I'm always amazed how unprepared the majority of people are for a job when they first arrive out of Uni.

As an aside... I also think that every child at school should be learning how to code and financial management.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

I'm a big fan of the gap year...give kids a year to grow up and figure out what life costs, before they spend thousands in the college bubble.

Agreed 100%. My 16 year old daughter is trying to decide on uni decisions now. I am trying my best to encourage 1-2 years of working and life experiences before she goes to uni (if at all).

I would like to see here go, but if she doesn't that's fine too. Of course we are also looking at some European uni's since many of them have very lucrative scholarships making her education virtually free.

 

[Kak]

I want your worldly knowledge. Holy crap.

 

[Torrey]

I dropped out after four years because I didnt want my self-success to be attributed to a degree.

This mantra has guided me a lot: "I'd rather create jobs and opportunities than take them". Degrees help you take them.

 

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[Kak]

I am really hoping that doesn't happen to me. Great point. Although I dont care much about what other people think. It definitely was not my college that will make me successful.

 

[MooreMillions]

Hell, more has changed in the college landscape between my sister graduating 5 years AFTER me and my mother graduating 40+ years BEFORE me! Think about that...

I think Mark Cuban said it best when he likened the student loan crisis. When you are offering money, for something that is diminishing in value, and diminishing possibilities to pay it back...Houston, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!

Here's the article: The Coming Meltdown in College Education & Why the Economy Won't Get Better Anytime Soon