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Has "Everything" You Learned About Nutrition Been Wrong?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by GThreepwood, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    Hey everyone,

    Hope you're doing great!

    I'm new to this forum, and mainly on it for the "business" stuff.

    At the same time, I'm a bit of a nutrition info addict.

    About 6 months ago I started down a crazy rabbit hole of health info that's really blowing my mind. (No I'm not trying to sell anything here :) )

    And because I'm a nutrition nut, I just feel like I have to share :)

    Here's what I used to think:
    Sponsored Ad

    -Sugar is bad
    -Saturated fat is bad
    -Fish oil is good
    -Nuts and seeds are good
    -Lean cuts of meat are best

    Now I think almost the exact opposite:

    -Sugar is good
    -Saturated fat is good
    -Fish oil is bad
    -Nuts and seeds are bad
    -Lean cuts of meat are best in moderation (gelatinous cuts are better.)

    Why?

    Well, you could literally read for years on the subjects, but a quick summary:

    Sugar is probably good because sugar is half glucose, half fructose. Fructose doesn't stimulate insulin, and that means that even white rice has a higher insulin release than refined sugar. Fructose also can get into your cell to create cellular energy (increased metabolism) when your cell is being blocked by free fatty acids in your blood stream (that "effect" is called the Randle Cycle.) Fructose can also increase uric acid, which is one of the most potent anti-oxidants in your body, and has actually been associated with longer life spans. Fructose can also increase cholesterol a bit, and cholesterol is the precursor to good steroid hormones like testosterone. Overall the glucose/fructose balance is sort of a yin/yang effect on your metabolism and seems to do good things. And it does not seem to actually increase bodyfat when you eat it within "reasonable" calorie ranges.

    Saturated fat is basically the most stable fat you can eat. If you care about free-radical damage, then you probably want to eat "stable" fats, because they don't oxidize very easily. You can observe how stable saturated fats are compared to say, fish oil, or poly-unsaturated fats by just leaving out a bottle of coconut oil (saturated fat) and a bottle of canola oil, or fish oil, or vegetable oil, etc. The unsaturated will go rancid much much quicker due to it oxidizing. Also saturated fat is solid at room temperature, and can cook at much higher temperatures without breaking down and burning up/smoking. When unsaturated fats oxidize they can cause "lipid peroxidation" which causes cell damage and is a really nasty thing to have in your system. And the more unsaturated fats you eat, the more you store in your cells, and the more they can break up and cause oxidative damage.

    Fish oil is probably bad stuff due to the fact that it's highly unstable, and oxidizes super fast. It's quite possible that the anti-inflammatory effects you can get from fish oil is because it down-regulates your immune system due to the damage it's causing, after-all, inflammation is one of the first responses of the immune system, if you knock that down, you reduce inflammation. Fish oil was originally used as an ingredient in paint, until they realized there was better stuff because the fish oil went bad too quickly. So the "industry" re-invented itself as a "health supplement." Ever heard of Linseed Oil for furniture polish? Well, that's code for "Flax seed oil" which is also touted as a "healthy omega 3 supplement" but the only reason why they use it for polish is because it oxidizes so fast and turns hard. You probably don't want that happening in your body.

    Nuts and seeds are bad for the same reason as fish oil, but to a lesser degree, they have lots of unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fats as well, and can gunk up your system. Also this applies to the seed oils like soy oil, and canola oil, etc.

    Lean cuts of meat seem cool and at the same time, if you want to avoid "refined" foods, then you may want to cut down on lean muscle meats, cause you're essentially "refining" the animal down to one specific type of meat and only eating that. Just like refining sugar down to one part, or taking off the husk of rice and calling it "refined white rice" etc. The possible issue with only eating muscle meats is that their is a high concentration of tryptophan and cystine which can overburden your system. Tryptophan can convert to serotonin, which can be good potentially, probably mostly if it's in your *brain* (but that's even under debate) but most of the serotonin ends up in your gut, and too much can be a not-so-good-thing. Also cystine can be a thyroid antagonist and slow your metabolic rate and lead to other issues. Better "cuts" of meat are probably gelatinous cuts, like stuff you have to slow cook, or BBQ to break down the connective tissues. Those are much less rich in tryptophan and cystine, and still have all the protein goodness. They also have lots of "collagen" which can be really good for you as well.

    There's much much more to it, and I fully admit I could be wrong.

    At the same time, I do believe lots of health info out there is super-misleading and I feel like I've grabbed onto a little truth.

    If you've got other opinions I'd love to hear them.

    And If you have evidence to back me up, that'd be cool too :)

    I do like to debate sometimes though :)

    Happy Wednesday!
    -Sean
     
  2. dknise
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    dknise 210 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    Mind blown.:tiphat:

    ...I'm still gonna take my fish oil tomorrow... and my vitamins... but imma definitely look into that! haha:thumbsup:
     
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  3. skipper
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    skipper 25 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Hm, I just read about how carbs are bad and other things are good (paleo diet) and it even makes some scientific sense.
    And cutting carbs (potato, bread) does not make me sleepy after eating.
     
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  4. dknise
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    dknise 210 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    The adtkins? Diet killed people haha. Cells need carbs to live!
     
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  5. skipper
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    skipper 25 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Brain needs glucose. But body can produce it from fat!
     
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  6. PatrickP
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    PatrickP 120 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Ok so table sugar is 50% fructose. Whoever said fructose is good?

    Any time you spike your body's blood sugar level you are putting your body under undo stress.

    With that being said I LOVE LOVE LOVE simple carbs. But I do try to limit them as well as combining them with healthy fats in the hope of blunting the blood sugar spike.
     
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  7. skipper
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    skipper 25 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Without scientific background in nutrition I'd say it makes sense at least to pay some attention to glycemic index.

    Sugar spikes are indeed not the best thing out there (you'll get drowsy, fat, eventually you'll get diabetes at some point in life).
     
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  8. PatrickP
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    PatrickP 120 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Through my own research, taking over 100 blood glucose readings via blood test, I have found that the whole glycemic index is at best an educated guess.

    Among the reasons for that is what time of day I ate a food effected the glucose response, As well as if I had food in my stomach or not. If I ate a particular food by itself or with other things. If I had just woken up or not.

    If a person is truly interested in finding out how THEIR body acts and reacts I would recommend getting a glucose meter, $10 at Walmart or Amazon and start with 50 strips.

    They are the expensive part but for me it was a VERY eye opening experience when I charted my numbers. I was able to drop a good deal of fat and finally get down to the body fat levels I have wanted to for years.
     
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  9. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Admin Staff Member FASTLANE INSIDER Read The Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    Long view, but this Dr. argues that fructose is actually poison. If you watch the entire video, you might actually believe it afterward.

    [video=youtube;dBnniua6-oM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM[/video]
     
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  10. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    I agree that it's probably best to eat carbs. You can make glucose from breaking down body tissue, at the same time, that may be pretty stressful to your body, and more stress = not so good.

    Regarding the glycemic index, PatrickP, I think you're totally right, everyone seems to react differently, so the Glycemic index seems to be more of a reference point than anything.

    But even still, the Glycemic Index of simple sugars are less than even white rice. (Fructose does not raise insulin.)

    Regarding Dr. Lustig and that Sugar The Bitter Truth video...

    He's a great speaker, and this blew my mind awhile back. That being said, while that is a super-interesting video, I'm not 100% convinced sugar is as bad as he says any longer. Lots of things like uric acid can actually be really good for you, and one of the biggest anti-oxidants in your system. Fructose also increases LDL, but LDL converts to steroid hormones in healthy people, so that can be good instead of bad. Also, alcohol is not a carbohydrate. I think it's worth the watch, and I'd try to take it with a grain of salt if possible.

    And if the argument about fructose going to your liver first so it must be a toxin is true. Then coconut oil must be a toxin too :) Cause medium chain triglycerides go straight to your liver as well :)
     
  11. redshep
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    I was a lazy kid with "baby fat" until my 20's, so when I finally started working out, I dove deep into nutrition and tried to find the one true way.

    A decade later I'm basically old-school when it comes to nutrition and think every body is different. I've had relatives in good heath pass at a young age, while my grandfather was pretty much pickled until he left at 94 (hope I have that gene).

    I think the dose makes the poison. I think there's nutritious on one end and barely edible on the other, and everything in between should be in moderation. For most active people the body is really good at taking what it needs from what you give it and getting rid of the rest.
     
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  12. PatrickP
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    PatrickP 120 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Except for eating fructose powder how do you get only fructose in natural foods?

    Isn't fructose usually accompanied by other sugars in almost all foods?

    I have eaten a banana( I realize there is more than just fructose as a sugar source in them) after a 16 hour fast and my BG level went from 72 to 105

    That being said I do eat quite a bit of fruit. But it is usually after eating 1 pound of meat, chicken and or fish.
     
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  13. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    Patrick,

    My guess is that the glucose in the banana was responsible for the increased blood sugar.

    Here's a quote from Wikipidia: "Fructose is often recommended for diabetics because it does not trigger the production of insulin by pancreatic β cells, probably because β cells have low levels of GLUT5.[56][57][58] Fructose has a very low glycemic index of 19 ± 2, compared with 100 for glucose and 68 ± 5 for sucrose.[59] Fructose is also seventy-three percent sweeter than sucrose (see relative sweetness) at room temperature, so diabetics can use less of it. Studies show that fructose consumed before a meal may even lessen the glycemic response of the meal.[60]"

    Link: Fructose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  14. PatrickP
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    PatrickP 120 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    sorry I edited my post after you edited it.

    Ok so how do you only get fructose besides the powder?

    I actually use fructose powder for bike rides lasting over 4 hours or when I do half ironman tris so I am certainly not against fructose.
     
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  15. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    I don't think you can get pure fructose without going the powder route.

    I personally don't eat pure fructose.

    But a big part of the "sugar scare" is because of fructose. Dr. Lustig (in the video MJ posted above) is very anti-fructose.

    Personally, I'm not worried about the fructose in sugar. Although Dr. Lustig is a super-compelling speaker.
     
  16. skipper
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    skipper 25 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    This was very educational. And science in his claims seems ok and peer reviewed.
    Thanks
     
  17. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    Maybe we should find a way to hire Dr. Lustig to sell our products, cause he seems to be great at taking an idea and selling the heck out of it. Even if it's not "fully baked" or "totally true" :)
     
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  18. Mr.Dietsch
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    Mr.Dietsch 30 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    You seem like you really know what your talking about, if I was you I would turn this into a fast lane business.
     
  19. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    Hahaha, thanks Mr.Dietsch!

    That could be awesome!

    At the same time, I'm not sure how to do that without selling my time, or writing a bunch of blog articles and going that route, which isn't very "fast lane."

    Maybe a supplement business?

    Hmmmm...

    Gotta get my creative brain juices going.
     
  20. santa
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    santa 90 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    I can definately relate to your tagline!
    I remember the days when I used to think margerine was generally healthier for you than good old school butter. Marketing Works!

    I don't usually like the bad/good view as it can often depend on context, but I like the thoughts you've put behind them, and agree with several.
    On the sugar (and carbs too)- it can depend on things like activity level. Also the amounts of sugar the average person eats today is unprecendented in the whole of human history. Even the RDA amounts (90g from memory-thats sugar in all forms) is massively more than what people ate 100 years ago. Even 30 years ago. Gth, you're probably aware how saturated fats were demonized along with other fats, and how it's turned into a money spinner for so many companies with their "fat free" products loaded with sugar.

    The Paleo forums has been the start of eye opening journey for me, but I agree that certain sections went overboard with things like fish oil. But they get a lot right, though so much is still unknown and unexplored in nutrition.
    What is taught in mainstream about nutrition has more ignorance then it should really, influenced by profit motives,lobbying,power and so forth.

    What's also fascinating is applying marketing and business principles to the food and medical industry- it's MINDBLOWING!
    One example-promoting a product produced in excess (e.g.Soy & corn ) as healthfoods! Genius! (and simply devious!) (and not good for the community imo)
     
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  21. santa
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    santa 90 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    Good quality organ meats is another option.
    And also homemade bone broths.
    Another option I use is having prebought gelatin with muscle meat meals, helps give a more rounded profile
     
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  22. Lights
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    Lights 30 kph

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    Yes.

    Anorexia mindset, I repeat, mindset can help when losing weight. I lost 40 lbs with that mindset, but I took it "off" when I want to be normal. Sounds stupid. I know. I went to anorexic forums to lose weight after all. lol

    Fasting is healthy in moderation.

    Junk food is healthy in moderation. But not everyday, or even once a week.

    Calories in versus Out is all that matters when it comes to weight lost.
     
  23. PatrickP
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    PatrickP 120 kph Read The Millionaire Fastlane

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    Yes but most likely a good amount of what you lost was muscle. Which means your slow metabolism is now slower and continue to decline every time you use that method.

    Meaning every time you diet you will need to eat less and less to lose the same 30lbs. At your age your metabolism is currently the fastest it will ever be unless you do things to change your lifestyle.

    What this means is as you age it will be next to impossible to lose weight unless the calorie range is in the 500 - 700 range.
     
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  24. Lights
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    Lights 30 kph

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    It's not safe for someone who can get addicted to anorexia or stupid people who really get caught up in it.

    This was 3 yrs ago. I have no regrets about it. Plus I'm not an anorexic either, so I wasn't starving myself. I fast like 3-5 days then eat like normal for a few days, then repeat until I lost about 40 lbs. As long as you don't get consume about it, and really become "anorexic" then it's ok. It just sounds stupid, but I couldn't lose weight doing normal dieting, still can't. I won't even bother. Dieting sucks. I don't like counting calories. I don't even own a scale, I just check the scale at a friends house or my aunt once a month to get a rough idea. if I am there.

    I was at 220 lbs. I stop and went normal at 180. kept it off.


    Nowadays I walk every other day, 2 miles here, 10 miles here. I don't keep track. I fast periodically to maintain my weight. I ate a whole pizza two days ago, I fast for two days. My eating pattern reflects my life; either you poop or get off the pot. I can't do anything sensible, eat big or nothing.

    I'm around 150 lbs. My body rocks. My health is great (I can withstand 0 degrees weather with ease, or extreme heat). I have muscles. I am at the lowest weight I been since I was like 5th grade. But this was over 3 yrs now, the anorexic lifestyle helps me just to drop 20 lbs, but I am afraid of getting loose skin so I have to eat again. Loose skin is uglier than being fat in my opinion. lol... I think of loose skin as old grannies or old men, and obesity anyone can have

    I'm not a doctor or anything, this work for me.
     
  25. GThreepwood
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    GThreepwood 15 kph

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    I do totally think that calories in calories out works. To a point...

    It does seem to get progressively harder to do with "repeated use."

    That being said, losing weight is a catabolic process.

    Catabolic processes are usually very stressful to your body, and can end up doing long term harm.

    Ideally, you want to be much more anabolic than catabolic, as catabolic processes are also really involved with aging, loose skin, etc.

    Wrinkly loose skin and aging in general is in large part due to your body breaking down (catabolic) and not able to rebuild (anabolic) in the same way as before.
     

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