Elance - Proceed with caution

[Guest12120]

Just wanted to share my not-so-great experience with Elance.
I posted a job in the beginning of October to have a website built for my business. I got a bunch of offers and accepted the proposal from the British company Tasvic Tech LTD. Their price was reasonable and they had some good looking websites in their portfolio. Before they got the job they wanted to change the payment conditions to 50% upfront, 25% when the website is on their server and 25% after the job is completed. I agreed to the modified terms. I thought it was only few hundred bucks. Maybe having the money would motivate them to get the job done quickly. They offered to have the job completed by 10/29.
To make a long story short, the website, as of 12/3, is not yet done. All they did was loaded a generic template on their server and that’s it. None of the things I requested were done. They stopped responding to my messages. I requested a full refund that was supposedly accepted by the contractor. However the Elance customer service representative told me that as of now the contractor doesn't have enough money in their Elance account so they can't do anything. To make things worse their account on Elance doesn’t seem to be active any more. The money that was still in escrow account (25%) was posted to my credit card right after I cancelled the contract. It’s the money from the contractor I am having problems getting back.
I called Chase today to dispute the charges. Hopefully I get the full amount credited soon.
Lesson learned! Never pay for any job in advance!

 

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[tincho1492]

Always use Escrow payment to cover your back.

 

[oddball]

What was the reputation like of the contractor? I have hired several people on it and have had great luck so far. But I also spend a decent amount of time reviewing who I hire beforehand.

 

[Guest12120]

What was the reputation like of the contractor?

It was decent. They weren't superstars but if I remember correctly the average rating was above 4 and they had around a dozen of jobs completed. I am pretty sure that my situation is not typical but stuff like this does happen, so you have to be careful.
I am a little disappointed with Elance, if I can be honest. It looks that if the contractor doesn't fund their account I have no chance of getting my money back through Elance.

 

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[Mike39]

It's all about due diligence. I have never had a problem with any freelancer, yet I do in depth research and use escrow for anything over $1.

Scammers prey on the stupid and the lazy, if you put in the effort, you should be fine

It looks that if the contractor doesn't fund their account I have no chance of getting my money back through Elance.

That's because Elance has a business to be run and can't go chasing every scam artist who rips people of 3 digits.

 

[healthstatus]

It was decent. They weren't superstars but if I remember correctly the average rating was above 4 and they had around a dozen of jobs completed. I am pretty sure that my situation is not typical but stuff like this does happen, so you have to be careful.
I am a little disappointed with Elance, if I can be honest. It looks that if the contractor doesn't fund their account I have no chance of getting my money back through Elance.

Sorry, this is on you. Once you make payment, you have told Elance that it is OK to give money to the contractor. This is like blaming the bank for sending the money.

I never give anything upfront. I will escrow into 10 different milestones if I have to, but until you deliver, you don't get paid. I never select a vendor with less than a 4.7 ranking (with at least 7 completed projects), and my job has to be 10% or less of their total billings they have done on Elance. So if I am picking someone for a 10k project, they have to have billed on Elance at least 100k, and have a 4.7 or higher rank. Occasionally I will throw a bone to a well written proposal from a new guy for a $200 to $500 job AND I only pay after completion and delivery. I have used Elance since 2002, the only time I have had problems is when I break my own rules.

 

[Guest12120]

Thanks for the advice. Luckily it's only $300 we are talking about and I am pretty sure I will get it back. This being said I will definitely do my due diligence before I hire someone next time.

 

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[PopEmersen]

I made a similar mistake, listen to Healthstatus NO MONEY UNTIL WORK IS DONE and like Mike said its all about Due Diligence.

 

[nzerinto]

Coming from the viewpoint of someone on the other end of this (the provider), I won't touch a project with a ten foot barge pole if a client isn't willing to pay SOME amount up front, unless they have a solid reputation and experience. Plus, escrow is crucial for the larger amounts.
I've been nearly burned quite a few times when a client "disappeared" after all work was completed.
So while potential employers think they have so much power to pick and choose their ideal provider, it's the providers themselves who choose who they think they will work better with (and get paid by in the end!).

 

[healthstatus]

Coming from the viewpoint of someone on the other end of this (the provider), I won't touch a project with a ten foot barge pole if a client isn't willing to pay SOME amount up front, unless they have a solid reputation and experience.

That is the whole point of Escrow, I put the money up into the escrow. You provide the service. As you hit each milestone, money is released. I have funded some escrows and had the provider disappear and it takes a ton of effort to get the money back out. I shouldn't (as the buyer) have to give you a nickel for you to start working, if you know that 20% or 30% is already banked for when you deliver the first milestone.

 

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[Nick]

No wonder people keep stumbling on low quality contractors on elance if they follow the advice give in this thread by some members... 300$ for a website.. no money upfront = no serious company wants to be anywhere near you. You are left only with the bad contractors, and then no matter how well you are able to distinguish between them, you can only polish a turd so much.

As for escrow, that is ideal only for products, as they say on their website:

"When to use Escrow.com: Escrow is well-suited for items purchased on auction sites, automobiles, motorcycles, domain names, jewelry, specialized computer equipment, and other high-ticket items."

Can you get someone to build you a house and say you are only going to pay them in milestones, or when the house is delivered? Don't think so... some software development projects are as complex as building a house, no one is going to start working on them without upfront payment.

If you do not trust your provider, it's better to not work with them rather than to use the advice giving here on how to filter them, cause all you do is filter the good companies and you are left with the bad ones.

Just my opinion.

 

[healthstatus]

As for escrow, that is ideal only for products, as they say on their website:

Elance has an escrow function built into the system.

No wonder people keep stumbling on low quality contractors on elance if they follow the advice give in this thread by some members... 300$ for a website.. no money upfront = no serious company wants to be anywhere near you.

Sorry, there are a lot of talented people out there that under value their skills. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of that.

I have been screwed more often by "high price" providers than the lower cost guys.

I don't really have time to build a lot of trust for a guy that will style an ebook for me, I describe the project and he can bid or not. I use the tools elance provides to make my judgement.

 

[Guest12120]

Thank you for your reply. We have not heard back from your contractor but we have taken action against their account. Any funds they earn will be put towards your refund. If you dispute the charge with your credit card company your account will be suspended since you have agreed not to take this action when you agreed to our Terms of Service.

Since the contractors profile doesn't exist any more it's not likely that they will have any earnings from Elance to give me a refund. So it looks like I am being kicked out from Elance. oDesk, here I come

 

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[Toao]

Sorry to hear about that. It's always wise to pay at the end of a job or at least milestone by milestone after work is done.
If you still need help with website stuff I can recommend some person I know personally who helped me with several tasks
already and did a good job. Just PM me if you're interested. Hopefully you get your money back.

 

[St.Alpine]

I also gave a new guy a shot to proof himself and he delivered on time and
did great work.
Received a stellar reputation from me.
You don't want to screw up your first time, don't
you.

Until now I only have had great experiences.
I also divided the job in as many milestones as possible.
Be very precise in what you want them to do.
They won't figure this out for you what the best solution is.

You have to cut through a lot of noise. That's why you have to be
precise in your job description.
And look what they have done in the past.

I had a guy referring me to their "mother company"
and when I looked on the site, lorem ipsum was all over the
place and their legal page was a copy from the McKinsey site
with McKinsey still in the text

I went with an other company.

 

[OnePerCent]

I have had similar experiences with both Elance and Odesk (simple php development).
Freelancers seem to consider deadlines like superfluous elements of a deal.
For design I prefer to use 99designs dot com, it's full of talented designers and you can really control the outcome.

 

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[Just Outsourcin]

As for escrow, that is ideal only for products, as they say on their website:

"When to use Escrow.com: Escrow is well-suited for items purchased on auction sites, automobiles, motorcycles, domain names, jewelry, specialized computer equipment, and other high-ticket items."

Just wanted to add that I spoke with Brandon Abby, President of Escrow.com, and confirmed that the company provides financial protection for online work. This was after Freelancer acquired vWorker, and consequently removed required escrow protection from both buyers and sellers.

You can probably email him for more info.

 

[Warchild]

I just did a search on the company Tasvic Tech and they only incorporated in May this year and the credit agencies recommend not to give them any credit or in your case up front payments.

They seem worthless, so even if you sent them a 30 day winding up order you would get nothing.

Anything like this I would try and find somebody local and check them out, if you ever want to do business with a UK company let me have the details and i can find out if they are good for it.

 

[Guest12120]

if you ever want to do business with a UK company let me have the details and i can find out if they are good for it.

Thanks!

 

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[stranger]

Never pay for any job in advance!

No one will start working without an advance. So it's always a risk to hire an unknown freelancer if a deal is over 100 bucks. I had many successful deals with guys from different countries and some of them have become my friends. However, i've got a scam this year. Now i have my own rules how to hire the right persons.

 

[Rickson9]

Just wanted to share my not-so-great experience with Elance.
I posted a job in the beginning of October to have a website built for my business. I got a bunch of offers and accepted the proposal from the British company Tasvic Tech LTD. Their price was reasonable and they had some good looking websites in their portfolio. Before they got the job they wanted to change the payment conditions to 50% upfront, 25% when the website is on their server and 25% after the job is completed. I agreed to the modified terms. I thought it was only few hundred bucks. Maybe having the money would motivate them to get the job done quickly. They offered to have the job completed by 10/29.
To make a long story short, the website, as of 12/3, is not yet done. All they did was loaded a generic template on their server and that’s it. None of the things I requested were done. They stopped responding to my messages. I requested a full refund that was supposedly accepted by the contractor. However the Elance customer service representative told me that as of now the contractor doesn't have enough money in their Elance account so they can't do anything. To make things worse their account on Elance doesn’t seem to be active any more. The money that was still in escrow account (25%) was posted to my credit card right after I cancelled the contract. It’s the money from the contractor I am having problems getting back.
I called Chase today to dispute the charges. Hopefully I get the full amount credited soon.
Lesson learned! Never pay for any job in advance!

That was the incorrect assumption...

 

[healthstatus]

No one will start working without an advance.

That is incorrect. I have 3 different projects going at Elance currently and none of them got money before delivery of the first milestone. The escrow for that milestone was funded and in Elance's system if I fund it, and they deliver, it is on me to prove that they didn't meet the milestone if it is contested. These projects range in value from $400.00 to $3500.00. You have the money, you are in control, you can even point this out in your project specifications. If you select providers with the specifications I outlined above, you will not be picking people that ask for money up front, if they do, FIRE THEM and select another provider.

 

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[stranger]

That is incorrect. I have 3 different projects going at Elance currently and none of them got money before delivery of the first milestone. The escrow for that milestone was funded and in Elance's system if I fund it, and they deliver, it is on me to prove that they didn't meet the milestone if it is contested. These projects range in value from $400.00 to $3500.00. You have the money, you are in control, you can even point this out in your project specifications. If you select providers with the specifications I outlined above, you will not be picking people that ask for money up front, if they do, FIRE THEM and select another provider.

I've never worked with Elance, but all guys i've worked with, asked for an advance. Of course, maybe you run a very established company. For example, I never for any advance if I write for paper magazines, but I do if I work for unknown websites.

 

[Guest12120]

Just an update. I disputed the Elance charges on my Chase cc. Once I told Elance about it this is what they told me:

If you dispute the charge with your credit card company your account will be suspended since you have agreed not to take this action when you agreed to our Terms of Service.

and

Please note that we will dispute the chargeback with your bank providing our Terms of Service which you agreed to as well.

Yesterday I got a confirmation in the mail that the dispute has been successful and the temporary credit on my card that they issue when I filed a dispute becomes permanent.

Lesson to learn from this: Always fight for your rights regardless of the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and if possible use a credit card to pay for everything. If I had used a debit card or a wire transfer I would have never seen this money back!

 

[infinitus]

WARNING: Do NOT use Freelancer, unless you want to go through a giant circus hoop jumping act just to withdraw your money! took me over 3 months to get my money out of that scam site, they went to number 1 on my s&*t list and ive had some pretty bad experiences.

 

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[PSDSH]

I'm finishing up my 3rd transaction on Elance and absolutely love it. It's an incredible resource! I only deal with Americans though and I put that out there right up front.

 

[rorschach]

One trick I learned is to add a "codeword" at the end of your job listing and tell them to start their offer with it. Tell them you'll disregard them immediately if they don't use it. That way you know who read your complete listing and who is just copy pasting their offer everywhere. Isn't perfect but it does a good job filtering out the spammers and (some) scammers.

I hope this helps you out a bit.

 

[JasonR]

One trick I learned is to add a "codeword" at the end of your job listing and tell them to start their offer with it. Tell them you'll disregard them immediately if they don't use it. That way you know who read your complete listing and who is just copy pasting their offer everywhere. Isn't perfect but it does a good job filtering out the spammers and (some) scammers.

I hope this helps you out a bit.

That's actually a good tip. One other tip I've used, is if your project has several small smilestones (such as creating a graphic), ask them to do a sample for you. The ones that do are the only ones you want to look at.

I just posted a job and should have used a codeword. Read this thread 20 minutes too late lol.

Like others have mentioned, I have had some good experiences with Elance. It's all about finding the right contractors. Also, being as SPECIFIC as possible in your job listing helps a lot.

 

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[deepestblue]

I just look to see if they have addressed the specific posting and if they have detailed exactly why they are qualified for it: This weeds out at least 90% of bidders.

 

[Stu_Hefner]

Lesson one: ALWAYS do your due diligence.