Diving into Code - all help and criticism welcome

[Deleted21704]

I think you have the right mentality. Business FIRST but if you're starting a software-based company, you've gotta know what's going on technically. Not just so you can build it, as you probably have better things to do, but so that you know what's possible and reasonable.

I've walked this line for 2 years now. I've been to a 'coding boot-camp'. I've struggled through learning Rails, Django, WordPress, and other frameworks. CSS, design for the web, etc.

Here's my advice: screw Rails. And iOS/Android/app development. And every other hipster buzzword you hear. Learn Meteor. It is the ULTIMATE fastlane SaaS tool. It's like Rails, but 10x quicker to learn and use. Here are some reasons:

1. App vs. web. DO WEB. Almost anything that needs to be a native mobile app can be made as a webapp first and then rebundled into a native app. But it doesn't work the other way around. So why limit yourself?
2. Speed. SPEED. As a fastlane founder, most times, you're not building the app to handle 1,000,000 users. Let experienced engineers handle that if and when it's needed. You're building a prototype to prove your concept and get sales ASAP. Meteor is a BREEZE to learn and even quicker to use when you know it.
3. Single code-base. This is HUGE. Every other framework is a part of a larger system. Learn Rails. Then Backbone. Then JavaScript so you can understand Backbone. Then this. Then that. AHH. Meteor is largely self-contained. The code you write on the server is available on the client and vice-versa. Just learn JavaScript, understand how Meteor works, and you can make something functional QUICKLY.

I've been using Meteor to make a SaaS app. I'm close to finished after 4 months of evenings-and-weekends work: learning Meteor and building the app at the same time. If I knew what I was doing, I'd be done in <2 months part-time. Probably <1 month full-time. And it's not a simple one either.

I could have never dreamed of getting this much done with a conventional frame-work like Rails.

Don't just take my word for it: here's a tattoo artist who built a point-of-sale app from scratch to replace Intuit's POS. He's been using it in his chain of 17 tattoo parlors for over a year now:

 

[rcdlopez]

I'm one of those guys who wants to learn how to edit wordpress code/plugin code. I can do some things, but now I'm at the point in developing my website where it's too advanced for me to do.

Would I be best off learning php from the ground up?

No. I think the best way to learn any skill, especially programming, is by learning it when you need to learn it. A lot of people ask me if I went to school to become a software engineer and almost every time I tell them no, they look at me like, "wtf, how's that possible?"

All of the programming languages I learned, I learned how to use while on a job. If you buy a book on PHP fundamentals, for instance, and you say to yourself that you are going to go through it completely in order to "learn it", you will most likely forget everything by the time you finish it.

Instead pick something you want to make, like a custom CMS for instance, then use google/youtube to learn how to build that. In your efforts to get that made you will pick up new concepts which you will learn much easier because you are actually engaged with the concepts rather than just reading about it.

Concepts stick in your head much easier if you are applying them than when you are just reading about them in a book.

 

[davedev]

Yeah to keep this short (dont want to further hijack).

It's good to question or take inventory on your current path. Reflection never hurt anything. But. If you're passionate about software, don't let anybody stop you. Create software because you want to, do not create software out of a lust for quick cash or desire to be like Zuck. That gets old quick. The lesson that took me way too long to realize is this. True Programmers are social people. They take part in their community. They commit dozens of times a week to their own projects and send pull requests to the projects of programmers with a bug fix, a new feature, or a refactor, making something cleaner and more concise. They try to attend meetups and post regularly on sites like Stack Overflow offering their help to others. Code Academy cannot teach this.

This was not me. Never once was I that guy, thats why when I have the opportunity to stop a person getting ready to jump in, I think it's good to let them examine the extent of their own passion.

Most people just want to know enough code to add some custom plugin to WP or change it's theme, resolve CSS padding error, or maybe add a few Bootstrap classes to an existing project to make it responsive, remove what's in the header of a homepage and implement a slider using nano-slider or some other jQuery. Again, you have to be clear on what you want, then the tools and rigorous study that you'd have to undergo will take shape.

"I want my own app, or software biz". Go into that, and describe your role in that biz. Nothing wrong with having a more technical role, but do your due diligence and see if you can get there using an alternate path through marketing and copywriting (or whatever). I feel one shouldn't be 'forced' to go down the marketing route if that's not 'them' either.

The world has too many people doing shit that they don't care about. I know some programmers *with jobs* that hate their lives...I'd venture a guess that the more entrepreneurial programmers are happier. But whatever you decide, keep what makes you leap out of bed alive. Nurture that.

We have enough Zombies already. And we damn sure don't need a Fastlane Zombie.

 

[davedev]

Ah, do you have a goal?

Build an iPhone / Android app?

Bootstrap a saas app?

Achieve a well rounded Comp Sci education?
https://www.edx.org/course/harvardx/harvardx-cs50x-introduction-computer-1022

To become a wizard?
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electric...computer-programs-spring-2005/video-lectures/
https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html
You will become a wizard, with this one.

 

[RoadTrip]

I used www.codecademy.com and liked it a lot. Great explanation and lots of small challenges to solve.

Regarding languages, I recommend to start out with Python or Ruby. Python is a very beginner friendly language and easy to wrap your head around. Once you get the hang of it you can start with Django which is a MVP for web applications. Ruby is also great since the majority of the recent SaaS applications are built using Ruby on Rails.

I quit my challenge as it got way more complicated once I arrived at using classes instead of simple functions. To understand and remember what all the code is doing did took all of my spare time which I couldn't use anymore for marketing/sales.

Looking forward to your thread though!

 

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[NicoleMarie]

Have you looked around for a technical cofounder? I don't know about you but I attempted learning code and then I found a very talented programmer who has business and design skills to boot. It's the best decision I've ever made. Now I don't have to worry about messing up the website and taking all that time away from the business. Keep in mind though that I have complex and scalable website needs and the business IS the website.

Don't worry though, it's good to know the realm of programming a little so you at least know what skills/languages to check for on LinkedIn. ;D

 

[samuraijack]

Shit, I'm in the same journey as well. I've been teaching myself for ~6 months before stumbling across the fastlane. Those first couple of months were entirely bullshit, spending too much time learning the syntax and not what programming is really about. Then I started completing tutorials like a maniac, (Learn Python the Hard Way), Learn to Program by Chris Pine, courses on coursera, udacity, ocw.MIT, edx, Head First Java, etc... I switched languages quite a bit in the beginning as you can tell haha...

Then I realized, tutorials are worthless once you understand syntax, basic programming like loops, methods, control flow, etc...They are only good if you are learning a new framework. What really cements learning is picking something you want to build and building it slowly at a time, using google and stackoverflow. Because almost everything you want to do , and all the problems you run into, someone has been through them already.

@davedev I wanted to ask you, for someone who learned basic Java, and is learning Android apps, how well does this knowledge transfer over to web dev later on? Besides learning (HTML/CSS/Javascript), is the backend similar and just a matter of changing languages/learning a framework, or is it an entirely new beast starting from scratch?

 

[davedev]

A few random scattered thoughts. Hopefully I can offer something beneficial @ProblemOd

First it's good that you are completing tutorials. Better that than to have 30 incomplete tutorials.

Oops. I'm not a Java/Android guy @ProblemOd though I did take a programming course in college (community college at that) that was taught in Java and C++. I recently added Ruby on Rails to the tool kit a few months ago. (which is way more than 'a language', it's a whole philosophy...testing, working with the DB, working with git/github, writing clean and dry code, driving your development with tests (red green refactor), becoming good friends with the terminal, learn how does a web page get on your screen? etc) Then you have to have the wisdom ignore some of those concepts because you're brain is going to explode if you hear one more nonsense acronym like CRUD, MVC, OOP, or BDD.) It's alot...

Alot of things carry over. As you said...loops, methods, control flow...with C you have to deal with managing memory too among other things.

But learn from my mistakes though. Have a clear outcome from the beginning, I'm still suffering from the effects of not having one now. Just as the title of my favorite chapter in The Millionaire Fastlane states "Give Your Road A Destination".

You have to know where you want to end up. Close your eyes and imagine "in 12 months, wtf do I want to be able to create?". [seriously do this]. Then work backwards. What does 6 months in this endeavor look like? What does 3 months in this endeavor look like, and finally 1 month?

What does it look like? Is it to spin up a working version 1.0 of some SaaS app? Is it worth a year of serious self study to make a barely functioning program? Because if you're a slow learner or have enough on your plate already, it just may take a year to make any serious headway. Are you ready to invest that much time?

Check that outcome against other outcomes you may have in similar periods of time. Go find experts [get on Quora] talk to real rockstar developers about your plans and aspirations, some of them trained devs and can help you know if your goals are foolhardy or not.

DISCLAIMER. All of what's written above is for someone who have 0 true interest in programming and are simply looking to it to 'bootstrap' some Fastlane idea. All those who are truly passionate about software and technology will persist despite any doubts and naysayers because their joy comes from the creating of things with code...no matter how long it takes.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

@davedev
What mind candy!!! Who the f knew that reading that dense MIT stuff would be such a pleasure

MOAR!!!

Basically my attitude is bring it on. I'll do whatever is necessary to become as good as I can be at code. My aim is not to be stingy because I do not want to learn the least I can to narrowly escape bugs for one program. I want to be open to the possibilities.

The world has too many people doing shit that they don't care about

Code reminds me of Martial Arts so far, so it really doesn't bug me learning it.
Pun intended

In martial arts, there is "beginners mind" and thats how I'm approaching it, I'll respond to the reality as I come across it rather than have any prejudice.

Just assume I have the joy of learning this for the first time and I want to enjoy it and tackle it head on.

@NicoleMarie
Hmm... I did due diligence on this for a few months, and as flipping back and forth, I gained a curiousity for code. I would say that I don't care if the result is minimal anymore, I'm doing the best I can with the time I got, and I will let coders skills compete with my own for who is the best for the projects and tasks, if they are better I'll hire them.
So my common sense is 100% intact, I just kinda saw that I'd be willing no matter what.
It was like a dam overflowing, rather than opening the gates for the tiny trickle of curiousity.


So I read about 50% of what Dave sent over yesterday, and today has just begun.

 

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[codo3500]

Absolutely. Actually, I could use some help here. All the jobs I see what 2-5 years of experience in like every language, a degree, etc. How did you do it?

For me it was standing out, and being prepared to take a job on only 40k. So my job was a mix of things, a bit of an 'all-round shit kicker' for the office, so being able to Photoshop a bit, code a bit, do a little bit of Flash .etc. So I designed a sick looking resume (actually designed, in photoshop, so it would stand out), which included a nice portfolio of work I'd done (just a few websites I'd done while learning to code, just for friends).

I had a strong interview, and later found out they hired me because they "Could see themselves hanging out with me every day" haha. Didn't take me long to work my way up as my skills improved.

Don't be afraid to fudge your resume slightly. I don't mean lying, but if you've been dabbling in HTML for 2 years, write you've been doing HTML for 2 years - just be prepared to back yourself up. For my first month at this gig (which was a 1 month holiday relief, with option to continue as full-time if I was good) I spent my 8.5 hours at work, constantly learning, then went home, and stayed up late studying to improve and get up to speed to where I said I was. It was a hard month, but that's how you grow - throw yourself in the deep end.

 

[Deleted21704]

I believe that being better at code will alllow me to "lead gently" rather than bear down on guys

There's nothing more demotivating than a manager who sees engineers as nothing but code-monkeys. I've seen it break up high-profile, well-funded companies.

Rolling up your sleeves, taking bullets, and learning the craft will give make your engineers respect and appreciate you more. Engineering is often more than code...it's not until you begin writing code and designing interfaces that some of the most fundamental business decisions will come to the surface.

Hence the 'technical analyst' phenomenon to bridge the gap between business and code. But early on, without that luxury, both sides need to understand each other at a very deep level.

It goes both ways...a super-star coder who knows nothing about business should be avoided too.

 

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[OverByte]

It's noble goal but I see a lot of failed projects start with this. Example first android game I made was for android 1.5 I did the whole thing in OpenGL without any game engine because somehow it felt wrong using what someone else built. The end result was that the game was shit because I just didn't have enough time to do everything. Fast forward with lessons learned and I am about to release another game using Unity and it is incomparable.

Remember that we stand on the shoulders of giants. Don't feel guilty using what someone else built and intended for it to be used.

I'm a professional software engineer and we always opt to use libraries than write in house because it's cheaper, less risk (the libraries are usually well tested) and faster to deploy. Only write yourself what doesn't exist. It won't hinder your learning. And for something handling money and user accounts I would definitely want something thoroughly tested and deployed.

Anyway do with the knowledge as you see fit. Good luck.

 

[davedev]

Ok meteor has piqued my interest. Thanks @m52go and repped for an awesome post.

 

[RogueInnovation]

do you have a goal?

Building a site with functionality like okcupid or other networking sites like linkedin (not a dating website or entreprenuer related)
So, profiles, search, login, upgrading, pming functions and that kind of cross communication.

So I can't permenantly stick to things like Meteor and Rails for anything other than for the products and sales/demos section.

But ultimately my goal is to expand my mind far enough that, the task of creating all that isn't narrow, but creative and sound.

I may have to launch all that before I have half the skill required, but I aim to get as close as I can so I can guide and manage. And a year after deployment I aim to be fully capable so that the second generation has the highest tier of results I can access.

 

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[Deleted21704]

Installed rails to look at

Getting started in meteor, its not officially supported yet :/ but...
http://win.meteor.com/
(status: not yet figured out) Trying the native solution, if that doesn't take I'll do the virtual machine

For starters I'm going to develop a three page site, see what I learn, I have a little biz idea I can do it up for
Going to give myself time to adjust to rails and meteor, and check out other solutions, then will go the path that works the best, I am the most excited about meteor I think.

I wouldn't rely on a Windows environment. It's not officially supported, and combine that with the variable, pre-release status of Meteor, and it's not a stable situation at all.

I'd just use a Linux VM. Maybe Ubuntu on VirtualBox? It's pretty easy to dual-boot on PCs with Ubuntu too. Aside from node.js, I don't remember there being any other dependencies or environment variables to worry about.

More plugs: Meteor is real-time by default. No AJAX back-and-forth. User accounts take 1 line of code. Deployment is also a 1-line command. It's nuts.

 

[Deleted21704]

I may be the only one that thinks this - but I learnt enough code to get a job, then spent a couple of years getting paid at a top firm learning off total guns.

Absolutely. Actually, I could use some help here. All the jobs I see what 2-5 years of experience in like every language, a degree, etc. How did you do it?

Also, from what I hear, the lifestyle is rather decent, so it's not a bad way to bootstrap into the fast-lane.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

What I expected today
Aim -> Execute -> Learn

What happened
Aim -> New issue -> Do diligence -> Rethink -> Learn -> Neatly prepared for aim but less certain its what needs to happen -> Mulling it all over -> Did it anyways

I have good news, Meteor and Rails are now installed and tested
Will be done with the MIT course Davedev gave me within a week
And I aim to get some crucial first steps completed by then also


I think I will learn this really methodically, no rushing in, just diligently completing the best next logical step.
I've learnt a lot already, so if I keep a good pace I think I'll get nice progress in a few weeks, then some results in a few months, and some skill develop in 2015.

Seems doable.

 

[AdrianMC]

Ah, do you have a goal?
To become a wizard?
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electric...computer-programs-spring-2005/video-lectures/
https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html
You will become a wizard, with this one.

I've read SICP! It's truly mind blowing and amazing. The streams chapter totally turned my world upside down.

 

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[AdrianMC]

What I expected today
Aim -> Execute -> Learn

What happened
Aim -> New issue -> Do diligence -> Rethink -> Learn -> Neatly prepared for aim but less certain its what needs to happen -> Mulling it all over -> Did it anyways

I have good news, Meteor and Rails are now installed and tested
Will be done with the MIT course Davedev gave me within a week
And I aim to get some crucial first steps completed by then also


I think I will learn this really methodically, no rushing in, just diligently completing the best next logical step.
I've learnt a lot already, so if I keep a good pace I think I'll get nice progress in a few weeks, then some results in a few months, and some skill develop in 2015.

Seems doable.

Awesome, how do you like the MIT course? I believe it is based upon the SICP book. I attempted that book 3 times before I finally got through it, it can be quite hard, but definitely very rewarding.

On another note, I enjoy following this thread. I've recently started my own over at the software forum: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/rusty-at-programming.54064/

 

[RogueInnovation]

Awesome, how do you like the MIT course? I believe it is based upon the SICP book. I attempted that book 3 times before I finally got through it, it can be quite hard, but definitely very rewarding

Its very rewarding if you don't let the weird run on sentences f#ck with your comprehension. You need to kind of "take the leap" with each sentence and idea to get what they are angling at, but once you do it pulls a few things together nicely and gives you some xray vision into things you before only thought of as superficial.
I would almost say it is deep, but, I won't say that because its obviously striving for certain proficiencies in its readers. I think that grasping the proficiencies they are aiming at allows you better GRIP on code.

Its not your typical "dense for no reason at all" textbook. I kind of avoid computer science for the reason it can get "off the rails" a bit. This MIT course seems fairly on point, and while it has some time wasting I think its not too bad.

I like it because each chapter so far has shown me a new paradigm of thought regarding code.
I mean, I see code differently after reading it, which is the goal of this stuff, so I'm grateful for the link/chance to take some free paradigm shift moments from it.

Right now my view of code is that it is based off common sense and analysing how to structure codes so that we can build upon limited but powerful machines.
The course showed me so far that code can operate like a recursive form of mathematics where you apply symbols to parameters rather than for individual instances and that this has a run on effect whereby you define new symbols to manipulate either differently or more effectively, and the computer just executes that on mass so that you end up with it being able to (in a planned format) amount to functionality (if you preplan realistically).

I see code at this moment as kind of a blackbox where you must coldly read the functionality, and it will by its nature break open into new functionality because of processing power and you organising new efficiency. I think that its confusing because you must "find" those efficiencies and plan for the evolving functionality. And it gets more complex as you follow functionality, so you need to dig deeper into the why and how so that you can better guide how things evolve or make intelligent choices in the earliest developmental stages.

That is kind of the paradigm I got from this so far, and I'm sure I'll get a few more as I dig in deeper. So I'm happy with the paradigms its setting me up to understand in greater detail later.
Obviously my understanding of all that is pretty abstract now, but I feel it will have greater use as I draw parallels in how to apply it to my coding attempts and through time and exposure.

So I feel it has given me a deeper and more function oriented view of code.
I obviously was pretty pleasantly surprised!
The course wasn't made by boneheads, I think its useful and it has so far teased me into understanding a deeper side of code.

I think its clever. I'm not hanging all my hopes on it.
I'm watching other tutorials and going to set up a few projects, and hopefully will find new gold nuggets somewhere that can expand my view.
But I'm pleasantly confident in what it has paid attention to.
So taking some time on it has been worthwhile I think.
A few dozen hours for those paradigm shifts = a good deal!!! Especially in my early "wtf is going on" stage. I think skimming it might be really limited though, I think you have to get it before moving on, and maybe the paradigm shifts won't always happen, so take it by ear and see if you like it rather than relying on what I got out of it.

TBH, I'm highly aware that I'm DUMB in the code scene. So I am doing my best to account for it and not go on any weird tangents or get over involved in anything before I get what its for.
I had a few hours free, liked the course, made a lil progress, it might be good but can't say yet, I'm positive though.

On the negative side, I think its a little bit too formulaic, so if I was to get too into it I might lose my "free spirit", so I read it as if I'm having an interesting conversation with some experts, and I realise that its true worth will only be revealled by coding myself and getting some proficiencies under my belt.

 

[RogueInnovation]

This is my current plan on learning code outside of my tasks and learning the next best logical thing.
The only real lead I have on how to get wizard like in code is this concept.
The left pyramid is the coder, and underneath his upper most perspective are assumptions, and these assumptions are removed by studying the whole spectrum of coding from base to tip represented as the pyramid on the right.

Like a figure 8 of learning, I expect that unexpected results (most bad, some good) will change my assumptions


(diligent coding?)

I am thinking that Meteor will be near the top and not remove many of my assumptions, but what it will do is show me what results should look like and get me up faster.
I think Javascript, Ruby, Python, sql and domain knowledge will teach me process and undo moderate amounts of bad assumptions.
I think that the most foundational understandings will be the hardest to uncover and will require an innovative attitude a bunch of passion and the will to leap.

I aim to leap in further than MOST developers who are in it for a quick turn around.
And my goal is to understand what code goes where during what times and what effect it has in the short and long term.

I believe my skill will progress as I better interpret tasks and connect them to end results.
I'll try to form a habit of coding daily (even if only a few hours) and structure those tasks to produce results for business.

If I create cr#p I'll hire someone else to do the code for each task, incentivising me to get it right. First I'll get my sea legs though.

 

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[rcdlopez]

Read "The Pragmatic Programmer" by Andrew Hunt and David Thoma. Great book, increases your code-foo by at least ...7 inches.

 

[RogueInnovation]

increases your code-foo by at least ...7 inches

Just read through it.
Its quite good. I can see the two authors debating in my head, animated with expression, about what points to discuss and what analogies to use. In that way its really pleasantly different from the usual "my system" kind of book.

So in a way, just like the MIT course, I think its suitably unbiased!!! A breath of fresh air!
Thanks bro

(grows 7 inches)
I am now a smurf program initiate

My view as I walk down the road of what people think
"Holy sh#t did you see that guy! He must have read two books, and installed Meteor on a VM... Whoa "

Reality
"Oh, cool bro, you just got started! Props!"

Haha
I'm fortunate to have guys feeding me an abundance of good resources.
Thankyou

(rolls up cuffs to do some work)

 

[RogueInnovation]

What really cements learning is picking something you want to build and building it slowly at a time, using google and stackoverflow

Hmm, I think being thorough is smart.

I recently added Ruby on Rails to the tool kit a few months ago. (which is way more than 'a language', it's a whole philosophy...testing, working with the DB, working with git/github, writing clean and dry code, driving your development with tests (red green refactor), becoming good friends with the terminal, learn how does a web page get on your screen? etc) Then you have to have the wisdom ignore some of those concepts because you're brain is going to explode if you hear one more nonsense acronym like CRUD, MVC, OOP, or BDD.) It's alot..

Yeah you have to get up off your a$$ to sit down and write code it seems haha.
I'm definately keeping a balance of all that stuff in mind.

Have a clear outcome from the beginning

Off the top of my head
1 year, strong beginning foundations for a large scale web app.
6 months, functional GUI's connected to decent code
3 months, prototypes, and small and easy stuff
1 month, some running code

You have to know where you want to end up. Close your eyes and imagine "in 12 months, wtf do I want to be able to create?". [seriously do this]. Then work backwards. What does 6 months in this endeavor look like? What does 3 months in this endeavor look like, and finally 1 month?

Its hard to get that right I'll have to reiterate but I'd like to get some solid "chicken soup" type stuff done.

What does it look like? Is it to spin up a working version 1.0 of some SaaS app? Is it worth a year of serious self study to make a barely functioning program? Because if you're a slow learner or have enough on your plate already, it just may take a year to make any serious headway. Are you ready to invest that much time?

Am a steady learner

Again, you have to be clear on what you want, then the tools and rigorous study that you'd have to undergo will take shape.

Not just be a flash in the pan.

"I want my own app, or software biz". Go into that, and describe your role in that biz. Nothing wrong with having a more technical role, but do your due diligence and see if you can get there using an alternate path through marketing and copywriting (or whatever).

I want to be the catalyst.
Not the guy putting conditions to be met in a contract and then waiting and cough up dough.
Its ok if I make mistakes, people can catch them, but I want to be able to drive behind it and make other coders, extra arms and ears.

There is no way in hell I'm going to outsource leadership.

I think you have the right mentality. Business FIRST but if you're starting a software-based company, you've gotta know what's going on technically. Not just so you can build it, as you probably have better things to do, but so that you know what's possible and reasonable.

What I've seen so far is that code is a lot more wishywashy than I thought. It has made me even more resolute that I do not at all allow bad seeds to get into my business. I expect far higher performance than I did before.

I believe that being better at code will alllow me to "lead gently" rather than bear down on guys, and cut out the wrong people and promote the right ones.

I aim to roll up my sleeves and do some hard a$$ coding so that I know what I'm asking for and how to get it.
A coach doesn't need to be the best quarterback that ever lived, he just has to be willing to dig deeper than anyone on that team at any given moment and drag them to victory.

He's gotta have a goal, and vision.


Chumps get no respect, and I gotta respect THAT or guys will flounder on me, mutany and do what people always do

 

[Deleted21704]

I'd love to know what you mean here

I'm referring to the delicate overlap of vision, marketing, design, and functionality in the way a product is built.

Example: right now I'm making a SaaS to collect peoples' top influences (e.g., what are the books, experiences, mentors, experiences, etc. that shaped successful peoples' lives?). At first, thinking about it, everything seems pretty straightforward: make structures to handle book data, person data, internet links, experience data, etc. Attribute those resources to a person, and just rinse and repeat. Simple.

But when I actually started writing code and inputting data, I realized things weren't so simple. John F. Kennedy loved books in series. That posed a complication.

• How do we represent series? What are the upsides and downsides (UX, search, functionality) of creating a separate series structure versus keeping books separate and simulating series with tags? I don't want my users to be confused.
  
• Is there a chance a user would ever search for one book in the series and not the other? If books differ significantly by topic, maybe it's better to keep them separate. But will all series' books differ by topic? Probably not.
  
• From an administrative perspective, I'll be the one inputting book data. How practical will it be to input every single book in a really long series? Keeping series as a single entity will save me a lot of time.
  
• Which option will be most technically efficient so that the user doesn't have to wait forever for series data to load? Database concerns arise, and NoSQL doesn't make relations easy.
  
• Are there other options?

Some written resources, like Paul Graham's essays for example, aren't books, but they're more substantial than typical links or blogs. How should those be handled? Is this another type of series? Is each one considered a book? Do we need a new data structure? It's a bit crazy to input each essay separately, but what are we losing by clumping them together? Is the loss worth the time we gain?

In both scenarios, it's not technically hard to implement a solution. But coming up with one that fits the long-term vision, marketing, UX/UI, technical scalability, etc. isn't trivial.

Intricacies will come up in whatever you decide to do. Having the perspective to think through them holistically is crucial. Everyone involved at the early stages needs to to understand a substantial part of what the other person (and the company as a whole) is doing.

Some business-people think that getting a 'ninja hacker' will prevent them from ever needing to worry about the website again. That's totally false.

 

[RogueInnovation]

Code:

It amplifies the power of an individual
If that individual is of a crude mind, flailing and hacking, it has little purpose
But in the hands of a man who commands inner peace and imbues it with purpose
It becomes an extension of that purpose making him immovable

I'm finding this visualisation very helpful at the moment, the idea that code is like engraving a signature onto the blade and crafting a purpose to its design.
That it is a ceremonial act of great precision and preparation.

Code will become the sword to my business.
And I feel that my philosophy for now, is to treat coders as those who forge and embue craft into blades. Often weilded poorly but in the hands of a master, unstoppable.

The aim in my business will be "code harmony" a matching of purpose (business) and design (crafted code). Each viewed as inseperable from one another.

Aim:

To create Zenshin code. To allow the clamber of details to dissappear to no mind.
To see the short clash before it happens.

I think that without that, the code will be sh#t, cliche, buggy, cumbersome.
And the website will be a pitchfork, rather than a blade.

Standards:

Now I do not have to create the zenshin code, BUT I do have to make sure that is the result.
Code without purpose isnt what I'm after.
I'm looking to help develop code harmony for the business I undertake on the web.
So, no afternoon hacker code


Discipline, care, depth, and attenuating the process, into a fine blade
Creating cutting edge code

Its going to require a lot of discipline from me. So I have to let go of the idea that this will solve itself...

I have to assess this long term...
Keep a tidy and organised process.
Etching out an inch at a time of progress.

Maybe I'll pay a commission for inches.
And lead the f#ck out of a solid team.

First thing is first, I gotta earn that respect. No shortcuts. No bullshit. So I can be worthy of asking the same, from the crew.

 

[OverByte]

I think Javascript, Ruby, Python, sql and domain knowledge will teach me process and undo moderate amounts of bad assumptions.
I think that the most foundational understandings will be the hardest to uncover and will require an innovative attitude a bunch of passion and the will to leap.

If you are short on time I'd recommend against learning both ruby and python as both will offer the same capabilities and you won't get overwhelmed with syntactical differences. Both are well used and documented pick one you like. Python is a bit stricter on syntax.

JavaScript and SQL will be critical for web based application so you are right there.

Some advice, think up front about how your classes will interact, sketch this interaction on paper (like a class diagram but doesn't have to be formal though reading class diagrams will be helpful if you want to eventually lead developers). Do this before you start coding. Defining your interactions up front is a must if you want a clean product that is maintainable. Don't be afraid to make mistakes prototype and refactor where necessary.

You're right that the foundational problems will be hardest to uncover as there are many ways to achieve a goal but not all the best. If you have specific questions don't be afraid to ask on here or stack overflow. Most experienced programmers like to help people out if they take an ernest interest in the craft.

Good luck.

 

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[AdrianMC]

No. I think the best way to learn any skill, especially programming, is by learning it when you need to learn it. A lot of people ask me if I went to school to become a software engineer and almost every time I tell them no, they look at me like, "wtf, how's that possible?"

All of the programming languages I learned, I learned how to use while on a job. If you buy a book on PHP fundamentals, for instance, and you say to yourself that you are going to go through it completely in order to "learn it", you will most likely forget everything by the time you finish it.

Instead pick something you want to make, like a custom CMS for instance, then use google/youtube to learn how to build that. In your efforts to get that made you will pick up new concepts which you will learn much easier because you are actually engaged with the concepts rather than just reading about it.

Concepts stick in your head much easier if you are applying them than when you are just reading about them in a book.

I echo this statement, but I would recommend a hybrid approach. I never used any programming books for the longest time, and did perfectly fine (was able to get programming jobs, etc.). However, when I started reading books alongside building things, I felt like I was locking down good practices that a lot of people tend to miss. That being said, there are WAYYY too many programming books out there that end up wasting your time. It's going to take some trial and error, but eventually you'll be able to scan a Table of Contents and maybe the first few chapters and know if it's a book you can work with.

 

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[OverByte]

I would suggest looking for a library that already handles the sales / authentication and integrating that oppose to writing one from scratch (not sure if that's what you are proposing).

 

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[RogueInnovation]

I've been in two worlds about coding, on one hand what a time suck and why even do it

Its not sucking my time anymore, after the first two weeks I have the habits of learninmg it and growing with it squared away

who is anyone kidding by saying that their code is going to be good enough in every situation I ever require it for

This is far more true than I anticipated, in that people will ignore your details unless you make it absolutely clear and will provide you with stock standard blehk.

BUSINESS FIRST THOUGH!!!

I've been getting back to business and letting myself silently progress at code.
I should be able to design something fairly reasonable soon.
I think that projects require a kind of see-sawing on them as you better define roles and how you'll organise things.


Code, seems to make more sense when you don't think of it as code but as a sequence that needs harmony. If you force the sequence of events you will come against the thorns, but if you open up and think of the most harmonious way, it starts to fall together a lot better.
As a result, I feel that a harmonious sequence is paramount, and differentiation is important in order to show any thorns or holes.

I've been coding just really gently, seeing what goes together versus what is weird, and just been using my intuition and taking it excrutiatingly slow.

Hopefully I can get some code examples up soon.


My emotions sometimes fight good code in order to SNATCH progress, but its a bad idea to follow that, so most of my skill has been focused at being very very calm. Just letting things be chaotic, and moving slowly forwards, checking my tracks.

I have a lot of opinions but none of them matter, so I really am not paying attention to it, because until good results have been created, its just a distraction. So for the most part I'm just remaining quiet and stoic, on the lookout for great process and clues for creating nice results, there isn't a lot more I can do.

Its clearly going to take me some time. And in accepting that, I can already feel success, because the small things I do today, are the building blocks for tomorrow.