Am I on the wrong road by being in the foundation?

[GregH]

Hey all. I need advice. Im having a meltdown mentally and I've turned to the awesome people here.

OKAY

So essentially I am in my second month of the Foundation ( dane maxwells thing) Im sure you guys know of it.

I really do think the material is valuable and I do understand the arguments against what Dane is doing.

( Guru, selling info, big promises, all marketing)



BUT, at the same time I feel like the process is essentially the lean startup method. which is good right?


Here is what I've learned thus far

- get into the right mindset
- choose an industry based on 7 criteria ( not sure if saying what they are is plagiarism?)
- contact industry and talk with business owners and try to find a common problem
- suggest/ come up with a solution that can be solved with a web app ( SaaS)
- find people to sell the product to and have them fund the products creation ( a lean product no bells and whistles)
- marketing/copywriting/ selling is covered later.. Im not there yet.


I've been calling businesses, using linkedin, going on forums and today I even had a tour of my chosen niche

which is Family Fun Centers ( go karts, batting cages ect.)

I am discovering that
1) I know nothing about coding, software
2) business owners want an all in one fix...something I cannot deliver
3) The process is much more difficult than I imagined.


Heres the meltdown....

I dont want to turn to the other students of the foundation bc they know no better than I.
Is SaaS a legit business for someone like me who cannot code?
Is the general concept of finding ideas doing what Im doing the right way to start off then perhaps the rest of it isn't worth much?
If I quit the foundation I'll have no idea where to even begin the process.

Sorry if my questions are vague and dumb..

any advice would be fantastic and thank you in advance.

-Greg

 

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[Twiki]

Hi Greg, first of all congratulations and applause for doing something --- and I don't mean signing up for that course (that doesn't count as doing anything), but I do mean your calling and meeting with local businesses, "getting out of the building" is one of the toughest things to do for most people!!! :eusa_clap:

BUT, at the same time I feel like the process is essentially the lean startup method. which is good right?

I guess so. But look, there's a book called "The Checklist Manifesto" by Dr. Atul Gawande. It's about how important it is have formalized processes in place to check things off, esp. in certain areas like intensive care units or the engineering of skyscrapers. It's a useful concept and a helpful book because it does a good job of laying out some approaches for applying the principles.

I guess learning "The Checklist Manifesto Method" would be good too, BUT that doesn't mean it's going to teach you what you need to know in order to operate as a surgeon in an ICU, although it may help you understand how an ICU operates, and thereby indirectly offer insight as to how to improve your own area of operation.

It'd be odd if someone tried to give you the impression that you needed to take an expensive course in order to learn the secrets of "The Checklist Manifesto Method". It'd also be curious if they tried to convince you that the Checklist Manifesto Seminar would teach you everything you need to get started as a successful surgeon.

Similarly, if this Foundation thing is essentially teaching the Lean Startup method why not just read the book with that very name by Eric Ries, plus anything by Steve Blank, and also "A Cheat Sheet to the Four Steps to the Epiphany" (I ferget the authors names). That should do it.

Here is what I've learned thus far

- get into the right mindset
- choose an industry based on 7 criteria ( not sure if saying what they are is plagiarism?)
- contact industry and talk with business owners and try to find a common problem
- suggest/ come up with a solution that can be solved with a web app ( SaaS)
- find people to sell the product to and have them fund the products creation ( a lean product no bells and whistles)
- marketing/copywriting/ selling is covered later.. Im not there yet.

Great, but it's interesting there isn't any mention of teaching you how to develop software? Are software development skills already assumed, are they described as a recommended pre-requisite? (If not, I wonder why not? hmmmm)

Or is this the sort of thing where they try to convince people they can run a successful software company without learning how to develop software? "Don't worry, you don't need to learn any of that nasty programming stuff! Just hire people with the skills that you need, that's how real entrepreneurs operate! You do want to be a real entrepreneur, don't you???"

I dont want to turn to the other students of the foundation bc they know no better than I.

Well I guess that answers the previous question, that this course is specifically targeted to people with no software development background. So let's think about this. The Foundation is something that experienced developers have no use for, because they can pickup and absorb these concepts via much more efficient and cost-effective methods.

But it seems like the Foundation also does not teach anything that would help a non-developer person become a developer, or even put them in a position of being able to manage a team of developers.

This makes sense from a marketing perspective because there is a much wider population of people who are non-developers than developers. In order to get them to sign up for our course, we just need to assure the non-developers that they can develop software while not having to learn how to develop software. If we gave the impression that software development was a necessary skill, then it'd reduce the our numbers.

I am discovering that...
2) business owners want an all in one fix...something I cannot deliver

This is a toughie. Is there something inherent in your targeted niche that makes it difficult to deliver a minimum viable product type of product? Or is it just a matter of having to talk to more owners to eventually discover the right problem-solution fit that fits the MVP model?

Is SaaS a legit business for someone like me who cannot code?

I don't know what legit means, but is it a sensible choice (one definition: higher probability of success compared to other choices) for someone who cannot code? I'm kind of doubtful, esp. if the person has no intention of learning to code.

Is the general concept of finding ideas doing what Im doing the right way to start off then perhaps the rest of it isn't worth much?

I think so, and if you're actually putting that concept into action like you're doing, you're doing great, from my perspective!

You know what's also great? You already got two of the main things you need from this course:

1) learning to "get out of the building" (but it sounds like you already had this ability)?

2) (and this one you probably didn't even notice you got yet) the key principle of "lean" stuff is: invalidate your assumptions as quickly as possible. actively do things to prove yourself wrong. you've done that by taking care of #1 above. And you're also doing it by questioning whether or not this Foundation is of any further value to you. Ironic isn't it?

 

[The-J]

Isn't the Foundation supposed to be specifically for people who don't know/care about coding?

 

[machin576]

I am doing what the foundation teaches right now. We hired coders to make an saas for a need we found in the construction industry.

I think the foundation is a good process, but you need some skills for it to work.

You need to be observant, inquisitive, and process minded. These are three things that Dane excels at, but others might not have.

Dane is teaching the process he used, but he probably can't impart these skills to you.

If you are having trouble seeing the pain, I would suggest looking at industries that you have worked in before and you have an ounce of understanding in.

When you understand how a business works, you can use what Dane is showing you to see areas that need improvement.

You are going to have to see many of the areas before you find a GOOD one that Saas can fix.

I would recommend thinking back to places you have worked and problems you saw there and how you would fix them with software or technology. This will train your brain to understand process, and then hopefully you will gain insight to look into businesses and see their pain points and bottle necks.

Good luck. If you still have issues, pm me.

Sent from my Galaxy Note ll

 

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[Twiki]

You are going to have to see many of the areas before you find a GOOD one that Saas can fix.

I agree with that maybe the OP just needs to keep at it in order to find the problem-solution fit but...

I think the foundation is a good process, but you need some skills for it to work.

You need to be observant, inquisitive, and process minded. These are three things that Dane excels at, but others might not have.

Dane is teaching the process he used, but he probably can't impart these skills to you.

So if I understand correctly, there are some skills that the teacher cannot teach, but these skills are required for the process to work. In essence, the teacher has developed a program that is dependent on non-learnable skills, and is selling that program as a solution that cannot be falsified, because anyone who is having difficulty with the process must be one of those people who just isn't observant, inquisitive or process-minded enough.

It's certainly possible that this program helps some people and it's also possible that some people cannot be helped, but really, this kind of subtle "blaming the student" tactic is one of the oldest tricks in the guru book. It helps to minimize the number of cancellation and refund requests, for one thing ("I guess I just don't have what it takes").

Dang, the people who made up this program really are clever and perhaps really are people to learn from!!!

 

[machin576]

So if I understand correctly, there are some skills that the teacher cannot teach, but these skills are required for the process to work. In essence, the teacher has developed a program that is dependent on non-learnable skills, and is selling that program as a solution that cannot be falsified, because anyone who is having difficulty with the process must be one of those people who just isn't observant, inquisitive or process-minded enough.

Yes. I call it having an eye for ________. First day at a restaurant job, the manager took me around and showed me what to look for when I was cleaning up. I had an eye for cleanliness. When you go into some people's houses, they feel very welcoming because the people have an eye for hospitality.

This is a sense that entrepreneurs spend multiple years and or businesses learning. That is why if you took someone like MJ, took all of his money, but $1000 and a laptop, he would be a millionaire in a few years again. He has an eye for business, finances, opportunities, etc.

The Foundation is smart because it teaches you what to do when your business sense finds the pain in an industry, I just don't know if Dane is good at teaching how to have an eye for it, or what to do when you get discouraged.

 

[Twiki]

The Foundation is smart because it teaches you what to do when your business sense finds the pain in an industry, I just don't know if Dane is good at teaching how to have an eye for it, or what to do when you get discouraged.

Makes sense. PS. Gave you speed for earlier post since you're out there building something.

 

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[DennisD]

Just continue doing it.
Your customers SAY they want an all-in-one solution. Of course they do. We all want that.

Do they have one? No.

Are they currently paying for software and services that AREN'T all in one?
Yes.

Figure out what the need is, get them to pay a 1 time % UP FRONT, and then hire the programmer to make the minimum viable product. Sell it to others which will seed continued development until it's a near perfect industry standard. At no point do you need to know coding so why you even mention it? At no point do you ever need money, even.

SaaS is a legit business method for those who can't code. That's the whole point of the foundation.

You've started and now you want to quit before you've finished. That's the only way to fail. If you follow through to the end, pushing through even though you're skeptical.. that's how to make things work man.

Stop getting in your own way and just do it.

 

[DeletedUser2]

Your doing fine

Dont quit

at the end of it. you will either have a great product making you money

OR

you will know exactly what to do right the next time and do it even faster.


Congrats on taking action.

following trough can be 80% of your success.

just follow through....



Z

 

[InMotion]

Did you ask Dane if or when he is going to teach you how to work with developers? He verbally states on his site that you don't need to know how to code. Might ask him, if I get an idea when am I learning how to turn this into a viable product.

business owners want an all in one fix...something I cannot deliver

Perhaps you need to drill down more into the problems? I am curious, will they not pay to fix 3 out of 5 problems?

 

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[GregH]

Great, but it's interesting there isn't any mention of teaching you how to develop software? Are software development skills already assumed, are they described as a recommended pre-requisite? (If not, I wonder why not? hmmmm)

Or is this the sort of thing where they try to convince people they can run a successful software company without learning how to develop software? "Don't worry, you don't need to learn any of that nasty programming stuff! Just hire people with the skills that you need, that's how real entrepreneurs operate! You do want to be a real entrepreneur, don't you???"

No mention of learning how to code. Is said that you dont need to know how to code but rather how to hire coders

The thing is, a few of his students who cant code have made products/ companies using his method so it can work.
I just don't know if thats just being extremely lucky finding a great developer or just using the system

I really think the mindset behind it all is a solid framework however the real question for me is
1) is this really possible without knowing how to code ( i think it is but I dont know)
2) is the scope of business possibilities limited with SaaS with niche markets
3) is there something in the process im missing?


But thanks for the compliments, I am trying hard. I just want to make sure Im trying smart

 

[GregH]

Yes. I call it having an eye for ________. First day at a restaurant job, the manager took me around and showed me what to look for when I was cleaning up. I had an eye for cleanliness. When you go into some people's houses, they feel very welcoming because the people have an eye for hospitality.

This is a sense that entrepreneurs spend multiple years and or businesses learning. That is why if you took someone like MJ, took all of his money, but $1000 and a laptop, he would be a millionaire in a few years again. He has an eye for business, finances, opportunities, etc.

The Foundation is smart because it teaches you what to do when your business sense finds the pain in an industry, I just don't know if Dane is good at teaching how to have an eye for it, or what to do when you get discouraged.

To me, this is what being an entrepreneur is all about. However so many people have eyes for problems. I think I do. But I think so does my engineer buddy who spots problems all the time. But its whats after that that Im not sure about.

is the SaaS business model solution a fit for the problem im learning about from these people. AND also...which industry works well with SaaS and which industries SUCK for SaaS.

I think your thinking on this topic!

 

[GregH]

Just continue doing it.
Your customers SAY they want an all-in-one solution. Of course they do. We all want that.

Do they have one? No.

Are they currently paying for software and services that AREN'T all in one?
Yes.

Figure out what the need is, get them to pay a 1 time % UP FRONT, and then hire the programmer to make the minimum viable product. Sell it to others which will seed continued development until it's a near perfect industry standard. At no point do you need to know coding so why you even mention it? At no point do you ever need money, even.

SaaS is a legit business method for those who can't code. That's the whole point of the foundation.

You've started and now you want to quit before you've finished. That's the only way to fail. If you follow through to the end, pushing through even though you're skeptical.. that's how to make things work man.

Stop getting in your own way and just do it.

So I like when you said they currently pay for a non all in one solution. I think that is the telling part that is really throwing me.

I feel like I contacted really smart and savvy people in the Family Fun Center market, they told me what THEY think is needed in the market, and they seem to be very "all-in-one"ish..... and I personally don't know whether Im in a position to think or even say " that just isnt possible, practical" because I could be staring at a great problem/ unmet need and thinking this problem isnt niche enough or its too all in one like for me to solve it using SaaS.... Should I just keep digging until I find a problem I KNOW I can solve using SaaS? Will I know it? Will it smack me in the face?

 

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[GregH]

Your doing fine

Dont quit

at the end of it. you will either have a great product making you money

OR

you will know exactly what to do right the next time and do it even faster.


Congrats on taking action.

following trough can be 80% of your success.

just follow through....



Z

Hey
Thanks so much for the kind words.
I think Im going through a bump in the road that is shaking my self confidence in myself.

I just don't want to be one of those people who " just has faith" and ends up doing something stupid when I should have changed course a long time ago.

Thanks !

 

[GregH]

Did you ask Dane if or when he is going to teach you how to work with developers? He verbally states on his site that you don't need to know how to code. Might ask him, if I get an idea when am I learning how to turn this into a viable product.

Originally Posted by GregH
business owners want an all in one fix...something I cannot deliver
Perhaps you need to drill down more into the problems? I am curious, will they not pay to fix 3 out of 5 problems?

Have not talked with Dane personally yet. But It is said that he will teach us and others has testified to this.

Regarding business owners and drilling down deeper.

I agree I think I do need to drill down deeper. I think Im worrying so much because I think, to use an analogy,

I dont want to keep drilling down deeper in field where there is only dirt and rock with no gold. The field I want ( who doesnt) is the field where I know there is gold in that field and I just have to work my a$$ off drilling down to find it. ( Im very in GoldRush the tv show right now btw)

I think I've drilled down 5 feet in my niche and came up with either All in One problems or people who say they dont need/want/use software. Im scared Im wasting fuel( time, energy) on drilling into this field of no gold.


Thanks for the reply!

 

[DennisD]

The thing is, a few of his students who cant code have made products/ companies using his method so it can work.
I just don't know if thats just being extremely lucky finding a great developer or just using the system

I really think the mindset behind it all is a solid framework however the real question for me is
1) is this really possible without knowing how to code ( i think it is but I dont know)
2) is the scope of business possibilities limited with SaaS with niche markets
3) is there something in the process im missing?


But thanks for the compliments, I am trying hard. I just want to make sure Im trying smart

It's not luck. They followed the system and it worked. It's so slowlane to think that success is luck.

1) Yes it's possible without knowing how to code. You said it yourself, other people have done it. Do you think the Owner of paypal knows a damn thing about how to code? It's possible.
2) The scope of business possibilities is limited with SaaS. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
3) Commitment

I feel like I contacted really smart and savvy people in the Family Fun Center market, they told me what THEY think is needed in the market, and they seem to be very "all-in-one"ish..... and I personally don't know whether Im in a position to think or even say " that just isnt possible, practical" because I could be staring at a great problem/ unmet need and thinking this problem isnt niche enough or its too all in one like for me to solve it using SaaS.... Should I just keep digging until I find a problem I KNOW I can solve using SaaS? Will I know it? Will it smack me in the face?

Boil it down, boil it down, boil it down. Yes, keep digging. If you're not talking to 3 people every day you're doing it wrong. Keep digging, and interviewing, and making contacts, and digging. Take the knowledge you know and contact fresh people. "So I understand a major pain you face is _____. I'm a software developer fixing this problem. I'd like to talk to you more to understand the issue" and talk about ONE issue at a time.

If you talk to fresh people about only a single issue, and see if they STILL say "that won't work, I want an all-in-one solution". I bet they won't because you haven't told them it's a possibility yet (and don't tell them it might go that way! when you talk to them focus on the small issues you already identified with other people)

 

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[Twiki]

... But thanks for the compliments, I am trying hard. I just want to make sure Im trying smart

Sure, as I mentioned earlier it seems like you're doing great based on what you've done so far, you just need to keep going. The question is how much value this Foundation thing actually provided to you so far, but more importantly how much value it'll provide you from this point on, compared to other methods of learning. In your individual situation, the question of "so far" isn't even very relevant since it's kind of a done deal, a sunk cost. I don't know if that program is setup with a recurring cost but the question of "from this point on" would only be relevant if there is possibility of cancelling further charges.

In other words, I think the original question "Am I on the wrong road by being in the foundation" contains a couple of different questions: 1) "Am I on the wrong road?" and 2) "Is the foundation the best vehicle for me to travel on that road, from this point forward?"

No mention of learning how to code. Is said that you dont need to know how to code but rather how to hire coders

The big question with this is: will they teach you how to hire and manage a team of coders thru the development process? I don't mean providing you a list of resources like "check out elance.com, odesk.com, etc..." I mean really teaching you how to manage an outsourced software project.

The thing is, a few of his students who cant code have made products/ companies using his method so it can work.
I just don't know if thats just being extremely lucky finding a great developer or just using the system

I can totally believe that a few of his non-coder students have done it. But you're right about wondering if that's lucky, both in terms of finding the developer, and also in being lucky enough to be a "natural" at managing a development project.

If the system includes teaching you the skills needed to manage a software project, then you would be less reliant on getting lucky, either way.

1) is this really possible without knowing how to code ( i think it is but I dont know)

Of course it's possible. The question is: how probable is success, in comparison with other choices?

2) is the scope of business possibilities limited with SaaS with niche markets

Yes. But let's try this fill-in-the-blank exercise: "is the scope of business possibilities limited with _____ with niche markets". Fill in the blank with things like "direct mail solutions" or "janitorial services" or "Windows desktop apps" etc. etc. and you'll see that's the case with everything. There is nothing about SaaS that is particularly a problem for niche markets in general, that I can think of.

3) is there something in the process im missing?

Probably yes. I don't think this condition will ever change, unless you reach a state where you have complete knowledge and understanding about the process, but that would be pretty weird. But your mental meltdown seems to be a confidence/uncertainty issue, not a problem of lack of understanding the process. If you got the process entirely wrong, that'd be a different thing and would be pretty clear, I think.

Besides, you clearly aren't one of those poor souls who needs to have complete understanding of things before taking action. Which is why I gave you some of that "speed" thing on your original post!

So getting back to the original question "Am I on the wrong road by being in the foundation" split into two:

1) "Am I on the wrong road?" - I don't think so, it seems like you're on the right road, if by "road" it is meant the process (not necessarily specific niche or training course)

and

2) "Is the foundation the best vehicle for me to travel on that road, from this point forward?" - unknown, you have better info about your skills and capabilities, esp. capacity for self-directed learning

PS. Thanks for sharing info about your experience with this course!

PPS. I'd add that it's a dangerous thing to think that some of those other people have had success just because "they got extremely lucky". There's an element of randomness and luck to everything, but "they just got lucky" is a very poor mindset because it ignores the responsibility you have for making sure that your skills are put into action in a way that stacks the odds in your favor.

 

[InMotion]

I think I've drilled down 5 feet in my niche and came up with either All in One problems or people who say they dont need/want/use software. Im scared Im wasting fuel( time, energy) on drilling into this field of no gold.

Try changing your line of questioning and look at the market your going after? If the industry is in the dumps maybe they are just adverse about spending money on anything. Who is giving the class? Is Dane not present in the instruction???

 

[GregH]

Try changing your line of questioning and look at the market your going after? If the industry is in the dumps maybe they are just adverse about spending money on anything. Who is giving the class? Is Dane not present in the instruction???

I think changing the questioning is the way to go. I need to keep questioning until I either find what Im looking for OR discovery that this industry is no good.

Dane releases content and gives 1 on 1 coaching and does conference calls. I have to say Ive been impressed with how involved hes been.

 

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[ubiquitous]

1) Yes it's possible without knowing how to code. You said it yourself, other people have done it. Do you think the Owner of paypal knows a damn thing about how to code? It's possible.

I think I'll start with that quote, since that seems to encapsulate everything about "the foundation".

I think ALL of this [the foundaton] looks a bit screwy and too simplistic for my tastes... But, I'm also paying over $60,000 to go back to school in a few months so to each his own (and I may be an even bigger sucker), right?

Nevertheless, I'll go back to that quote and respond with this:

The PayPal Mafia were engineers, actuaries, statisticians, computer scientists, MBA's, and J.D.'s from Standford, UIC, Wharton, etc...

Infer what you will.

 

[Tac12]

I do not know about that course but as long as you feel that you ar learning something!

I currently own two business that work with local business doing consulting and lead generation.

We now have 64 clients mostly built up of referrals from other clients ! I am telling you this so you know that I know what I am talking about because I am new on this forum, but what I like to do is find methods for my perspective clients call me !

What I been doing that I have been having success with is creating a killer video squeeze page and running ads in Craigslist advertising it.
So far everyone that calls I have closed. If you want to see one of my squeeze pages that I use check it out here [Moderator has removed link]

If you do something similar to this before you know it you will be turning down clients and only choosing the good ones.

Best of luck
TBone

 

[Twiki]

1) Yes it's possible without knowing how to code. You said it yourself, other people have done it. Do you think the Owner of paypal knows a damn thing about how to code? It's possible.

I think I'll start with that quote, since that seems to encapsulate everything about "the foundation".

I think ALL of this [the foundaton] looks a bit screwy and too simplistic for my tastes... But, I'm also paying over $60,000 to go back to school in a few months so to each his own (and I may be an even bigger sucker), right?

Nevertheless, I'll go back to that quote and respond with this:

The PayPal Mafia were engineers, actuaries, statisticians, computer scientists, MBA's, and J.D.'s from Standford, UIC, Wharton, etc...

Infer what you will.

I'm glad you pointed this out about Paypal. Didn't want to contradict it earlier because I've been trying to follow the Dale Carnegie thing of not pointing out errors so much, but it might be good to not let this myth be maintained, namely the myth that the owner of Paypal doesn't know anything about coding. Regardless of merit of learing to code vs. not needing to, the Paypal example does not support the not-needing-to argument.

First of all, I guess by "owner of Paypal" it's meant the founders of the startup that became Paypal, since it's be silly to think about whether or not the corporation that eventually bought Paypal has any sort of coding ability.

But anyway, long story short: yeah the main founder of Paypal Max Levchin definitely knew programming (I don't mean like HTML and CSS and javascript) and had a background in cryptography. He went looking around for investors for a bunch of his ideas and found Peter Thiel a derivatives trader who at the time was running a hedge fund... highly likely that with such a background he would know programming too, even if he is just the investor. Thiel liked one of Levchin's ideas which had to do with encrypted money transfers between Palm Pilot PDAs (remember those? I have one in the drawer of the desk I'm sitting at, it's so cute), so he put up the money for Levchin to develop it. Anyway later they merged the company with that Elon Musk guy, who was working on getting his PhD in physics, which surely would have involved programming even if he hadn't already taught himself to program when he was a little kid.

There's a few things about the Paypal story that relate further to the question of this Foundation approach:

1) If you think about it, the approach of outsourcing development of your software business is kind of like acting as Thiel the investor (let's just assume Thiel wasn't typing code). Thiel had a strong background that enabled him to judge pretty well who was the smart horse to bet on. When you are outsourcing the development of your dream without the similar ability to read the fundamentals of the development team, that's kind of like putting all your money into a penny stock you found on the internet and hoping for the best ("This $2 stock is cheap, and it's all I can afford now") --- that's not investing. Maybe in order to gain confidence some people will sign up for a course offered by a stock market guru who will teach you "the system" that will deliver eventual riches. Some people will do well with it, just as a matter of probability. Of course, it's possible that the system can eventually work, as long as you don't "blow up" and lose all your equity in the meantime.

2) After Paypal gained early adopter interest in the hardware-based Palm Pilot money transfer business (nerds only), eBay users started to use their associated web-based payment management software (normal people with Furby collections). Levchin describes that they were annoyed by the eBay users and their requests for addtl features and support. They tried to make the eBay users go away so that they could focus on Palm Pilot people. Eventually they woke up. This is the main thing behind the "lean startup" thinking that this Foundation talks about.

3) The Fastlane commandment of Entry, in the case of Paypal, could be strongly met because there are a couple of issues that they solved: a) figuring out how to develop a new kind of business in a highly regulated financial environment and b) developing analytic tools to help their internal human investigators deal with the amount of fraud that almost killed the company and killed most of it's competitors at the time. Paypal only survived because it became the best at fraud prevention, so it can be thought of as a fraud prevention company, not a payment processor.

So anyway, yeah, the founders of Paypal knew how to program.

 

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[InMotion]

A word on innovation...I would get the problems nailed down, with the customers, before they start spouting off solutions.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." ~Henry Ford

 

[tormat]

Some skills can be traded for money, coding is one of those, but if you can't develope what you want the coder to code then you will just be spending money.

 

[mapaul04]

I really think the mindset behind it all is a solid framework however the real question for me is
1) is this really possible without knowing how to code ( i think it is but I dont know)
2) is the scope of business possibilities limited with SaaS with niche markets
3) is there something in the process im missing?

1. Yes, as others have stated you can make it happen without knowing how to code.

I think your main problem is you are accepting the all in one solution as what they want or have to have. I watched some of the videos and interviews with Dane prior to the foundations start and remember him saying a few times that the business' will say they want an a;ll in one solution. Its your job to dig deeper and tell them which problems you can fix. I dont know anything about your niche or your niches problems but Im sure theres a problem or pain point there that can be solved with SaaS. If not you just need to move on to a new niche. Why did you select a niche without having the problem figured out?
You should re examine your niche selection, if there is nothing you can solve in the family fun segment you chose, then move to a new one. I think asking questions and being observant are extremely important but you also need to remember to ask questions to quantify the problem to show them the amount of money it costs them.

 

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[GregH]

Boil it down, boil it down, boil it down. Yes, keep digging. If you're not talking to 3 people every day you're doing it wrong. Keep digging, and interviewing, and making contacts, and digging. Take the knowledge you know and contact fresh people. "So I understand a major pain you face is _____. I'm a software developer fixing this problem. I'd like to talk to you more to understand the issue" and talk about ONE issue at a time.

If you talk to fresh people about only a single issue, and see if they STILL say "that won't work, I want an all-in-one solution". I bet they won't because you haven't told them it's a possibility yet (and don't tell them it might go that way! when you talk to them focus on the small issues you already identified with other people)

this is great advice,
the key take away is talk about ONE issue at a time. and talk to 3 new people a day.

thanks for your help!

-Greg

 

[GregH]

A word on innovation...I would get the problems nailed down, with the customers, before they start spouting off solutions.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." ~Henry Ford

this quote is going on my wall.

They harp on clearly defining the problem. But the general skills of getting a problem out of someone and also asking for what they want is such a hard skill to get down and something I suck at doing right now.

Most of my calls are me asking them about their day and their routines and issues they face and seeing if I can clearly define a problem.
I usually have no idea if SaaS is able to solve the problem or not and when I eventually talk about software or Saas they want the all in one fix to everything...So its a difficult line to walk between observing problems and asking what they want.

Any advice regarding this issue?

 

[GregH]

1. Yes, as others have stated you can make it happen without knowing how to code.

I think your main problem is you are accepting the all in one solution as what they want or have to have. I watched some of the videos and interviews with Dane prior to the foundations start and remember him saying a few times that the business' will say they want an a;ll in one solution. Its your job to dig deeper and tell them which problems you can fix. I dont know anything about your niche or your niches problems but Im sure theres a problem or pain point there that can be solved with SaaS. If not you just need to move on to a new niche. Why did you select a niche without having the problem figured out?
You should re examine your niche selection, if there is nothing you can solve in the family fun segment you chose, then move to a new one. I think asking questions and being observant are extremely important but you also need to remember to ask questions to quantify the problem to show them the amount of money it costs them.

I agree 100%. Its my job to dig deeper.

Heres where im going wrong.

I dont know if certain problems are appropriate to be solved with SaaS
I dont know when to move on to another niche or not

I dont know how to select a good niche apparently
Foundation is saying use 7 criteria
1) 100,000 in rev a year
2) they use software
3) can get the person with the problem on the phone
4) 5,000 of these businesses types
5) reachable by phone or email
6) profit driven
7) lucrative industry

I went from Parking Garages, to waste management to yoga studios to family fun centers

I admit I had no idea what I was doing early but still I feel like im contacting too large of a business and these places all have huge software packages like a POS or $100,000+ software and don't seem to need a SaaS solution. I cant seem to pick a good niche I keep messing it up and Im trying to find where Im going wrong.

I selected my niche based on criteria..I dont know how I would find a problem before selecting a niche?

thanks for the reply!

 

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[1step]

I agree 100%. Its my job to dig deeper.

Heres where im going wrong.

I dont know if certain problems are appropriate to be solved with SaaS
I dont know when to move on to another niche or not

I dont know how to select a good niche apparently
Foundation is saying use 7 criteria
1) 100,000 in rev a year
2) they use software
3) can get the person with the problem on the phone
4) 5,000 of these businesses types
5) reachable by phone or email
6) profit driven
7) lucrative industry

I went from Parking Garages, to waste management to yoga studios to family fun centers

I admit I had no idea what I was doing early but still I feel like im contacting too large of a business and these places all have huge software packages like a POS or $100,000+ software and don't seem to need a SaaS solution. I cant seem to pick a good niche I keep messing it up and Im trying to find where Im going wrong.

I selected my niche based on criteria..I dont know how I would find a problem before selecting a niche?

thanks for the reply!

I see what you are saying.

I think its important to start in an area where you have some knowledge of the industry. If that doesnt exist I would choose 5 that seem to fit your above requirements. I dont think you have done a great job of selecting niches that meet the requirements you listed.

Do the niches you entered really use SaaS? I dont know much about most of them but I couldnt see Waste Management using SaaS and all I could see Parking Garages using is a sales system. Yoga Studios? Maybe some use SaaS but percentage wise I wouldnt think it would be a ton. I think family fun centers are your best choice so far but if you can find a need you can solve move on.

Take 5 niches that seem to meet your requirements, I would choose Lawn Care, General Contractors, Accountants, Pest Control, and Podiatrists. Find a bunch of local business' that are in these niches and fire off a bunch of emails to see if you can set up meetings to discuss their business and just ask your questions and see what they hate about their job process or what they waste the most time on. I would try and set up 3 meetings in each niche and see where that goes.

Im not sure my niches are great choices, if I had to guess accountants may be over done, these probably offer a ton of potential so interviewing them may help you with asking questions and digging deeper. But the problems you uncover might not be worth pursuing. Lawn care would certainly meet all the requirements but most are probably not using SaaS although I bet 5k are using SaaS which could meet your needs.

I think you may be selecting a niche to early. Just find some business' in various niches that meet your requirements and speak with a few of them and try your best to ask good questions. Once you think you may be onto a problem keep pressing them about it to try and find out the time it is wasting or money it is costing. After you feel like you have all the information you can get call someone else from the same niche and set up your questions to try and see if they have the same problem as the previous business owner. If you cant get anything from them in regard to that problem find out what they waste time on.

Maybe this is somewhat helpful

 

[GregH]

I see what you are saying.

I think its important to start in an area where you have some knowledge of the industry. If that doesnt exist I would choose 5 that seem to fit your above requirements. I dont think you have done a great job of selecting niches that meet the requirements you listed.

Do the niches you entered really use SaaS? I dont know much about most of them but I couldnt see Waste Management using SaaS and all I could see Parking Garages using is a sales system. Yoga Studios? Maybe some use SaaS but percentage wise I wouldnt think it would be a ton. I think family fun centers are your best choice so far but if you can find a need you can solve move on.

Take 5 niches that seem to meet your requirements, I would choose Lawn Care, General Contractors, Accountants, Pest Control, and Podiatrists. Find a bunch of local business' that are in these niches and fire off a bunch of emails to see if you can set up meetings to discuss their business and just ask your questions and see what they hate about their job process or what they waste the most time on. I would try and set up 3 meetings in each niche and see where that goes.

Im not sure my niches are great choices, if I had to guess accountants may be over done, these probably offer a ton of potential so interviewing them may help you with asking questions and digging deeper. But the problems you uncover might not be worth pursuing. Lawn care would certainly meet all the requirements but most are probably not using SaaS although I bet 5k are using SaaS which could meet your needs.

I think you may be selecting a niche to early. Just find some business' in various niches that meet your requirements and speak with a few of them and try your best to ask good questions. Once you think you may be onto a problem keep pressing them about it to try and find out the time it is wasting or money it is costing. After you feel like you have all the information you can get call someone else from the same niche and set up your questions to try and see if they have the same problem as the previous business owner. If you cant get anything from them in regard to that problem find out what they waste time on.

Maybe this is somewhat helpful

this was a great post thank you for the insight

my questions

when interviewing or setting up an interview...would you suggest telling them exactly what im doing?( im a SaaS guy and I want to know your problems so I can solve them) OR ask about their problems and hassles and see if these problems and time wasters CAN be solved by SaaS then suggest a solution and test it by asking them to buy or putting up a quick sales page with a buy now button and funnel people their via google adwords ala tim ferris and noah kagan method?