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Slowlane even though following CENTS

Topics related to Slowlane, Scripted mainstream dogma

ric2020

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I want to discribe an business story that does not take off in part of beeing successful:

The guy (who studied IT and is a professional operas singer) wanted to follow his passion and invented an webapplication where musicans from all over the world can improve their singing skills buy watching instructional videos with experts while singing. It is done simultanously with a guy who conducts while singing. His project was even sponsored by the EU with 100.000 €, so the guy could programm it with another guy without investing money. His conductors are highly skilled people that got a lot of prizes. His webplattform was voted 2012 with even with an innovation award. So far it looks all fine. Musicans (mainly classic singers, like opera singers) can buy a membership for around 40 €/ year and buy some upgrades so that the average user pays him 50€/ year. But even though his plattform is online and he follows all rules by CENTS his business does not want to take off. His yearly revenue is just 5000€/year that are 100 users/year.

He follows all rules by CENTS and so it should be successful, i just think the only reason it has attracted just 100 paying users per year is because his business is in a special niche so that not so many users pay the service.

I would love to give him further advice and hope you can give some tips what is going wrong with his business!

Thx in advance for any advice you can give.
 
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Raja

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how is scale fulfilled?
 

thewalkingtemple

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I want to discribe an business story that does not take off in part of beeing successful:

The guy (who studied IT and is a professional operas singer) wanted to follow his passion and invented an webapplication where musicans from all over the world can improve their singing skills buy watching instructional videos with experts while singing. It is done simultanously with a guy who conducts while singing. His project was even sponsored by the EU with 100.000 €, so the guy could programm it with another guy without investing money. His conductors are highly skilled people that got a lot of prizes. His webplattform was voted 2012 with even with an innovation award. So far it looks all fine. Musicans (mainly classic singers, like opera singers) can buy a membership for around 40 €/ year and buy some upgrades so that the average user pays him 50€/ year. But even though his plattform is online and he follows all rules by CENTS his business does not want to take off. His yearly revenue is just 5000€/year that are 100 users/year.

He follows all rules by CENTS and so it should be successful, i just think the only reason it has attracted just 100 paying users per year is because his business is in a special niche so that not so many users pay the service.

I would love to give him further advice and hope you can give some tips what is going wrong with his business!

Thx in advance for any advice you can give.
What about repurposing his app/platform for other niches? That way, he can scale to different user base markets.

And what is the €100k doing? If it is just sitting in a bank account, it needs to made use of more efficiently.
 

ric2020

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how is scale fulfilled?
It is from my opinion fulfilled, because he has a webplattform that attracts all classing singers around the world it means anybody on earth can buy a membership.
 
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ric2020

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What about repurposing his app/platform for other niches? Ghag way he can scale to different user based.

And what is the €100k doing? If it is just sitting in a bank account, it needs to made use of more efficiently.
The idea with repurposing his webapp for other niches is a good advice, i just know that some teachers from music schools are interested in it and he starts to programm a moodle plattform for them but it is made on a big scale i guess so i dont think it will take off.

The 100k € he already used to pay for the development of the plattform, there is nothing left anymore. I also have to say he started his idea in 2010 so its already long time online and he made many relaunches. But he has the best instructors and also got a winning prize for his innovative idea. I just guess that the niche of classic singers is too small to scale and probably the S of CENTS is not applied.
 

thewalkingtemple

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The idea with repurposing his webapp for other niches is a good advice, i just know that some teachers from music schools are interested in it and he starts to programm a moodle plattform for them but it is made on a big scale i guess so i dont think it will take off.

The 100k € he already used to pay for the development of the plattform, there is nothing left anymore. I also have to say he started his idea in 2010 so its already long time online and he made many relaunches. But he has the best instructors and also got a winning prize for his innovative idea. I just guess that the niche of classic singers is too small to scale and probably the S of CENTS is not applied.
Okay, then I confess that I don't fully understand the financial situation. If the 100K was already deployed, and assuming the business has a revenue of 5K per year over 10 years, that's 50K in total. So is he in a loss of 50k gross, neglecting the fact that the funding was external?
 

Abrodos

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I have a similar problem in that my niche is extremely specific, and so, my market is very small.
Not sure about the exact names but you have to differenciate between the total potential users of your application vs the users that will be actually willing to purchase the app.
Opera singers are a very specific market, I'd say few than 100 people for each million. And from that, you must assume that only a fraction of them are used to online classes.

Also there's the fact that audio signals lose quality over the net, and that's a huge disadvantage from one-to-one physical classes. Some sculpting/painting online classes exist, but what is really working is 3D modelling/digtal painting, as screen sharing, for example, allows both teacher and student to see the same artwork, while traditional painting/sculpting would need the teacher to be physically there (problems such as bad lighting or bad cameras can affect what is perceived by the teacher.

What about repurposing the app and targeting to people that do song covers on Youtube for example? THere's both much more people wanting to improve, and you can also lever some of the most popular cover singers in the plattform, who have a high following.
This is a possibility in the "scale" sense, the other possibility is raising not the number of people engaged but the price they pay. That's what most opera schools do, they have like a 10k yearly tuition, because they know their target user number is very small.
 
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seomatic

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Well it seems like a marketing problem? Check how the product is marketed and adjust the approach.
Maybe there is no traffic to the website, maybe there is traffic but no sign ups or you have sign ups and the conversion to paying customers is the problem. Each step can be optimized. Consult a professional marketeer.
 

ric2020

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I have a similar problem in that my niche is extremely specific, and so, my market is very small.
Not sure about the exact names but you have to differenciate between the total potential users of your application vs the users that will be actually willing to purchase the app.
Opera singers are a very specific market, I'd say few than 100 people for each million. And from that, you must assume that only a fraction of them are used to online classes.

Also there's the fact that audio signals lose quality over the net, and that's a huge disadvantage from one-to-one physical classes. Some sculpting/painting online classes exist, but what is really working is 3D modelling/digtal painting, as screen sharing, for example, allows both teacher and student to see the same artwork, while traditional painting/sculpting would need the teacher to be physically there (problems such as bad lighting or bad cameras can affect what is perceived by the teacher.

What about repurposing the app and targeting to people that do song covers on Youtube for example? THere's both much more people wanting to improve, and you can also lever some of the most popular cover singers in the plattform, who have a high following.
This is a possibility in the "scale" sense, the other possibility is raising not the number of people engaged but the price they pay. That's what most opera schools do, they have like a 10k yearly tuition, because they know their target user number is very small.
thats a great advice i guess reporpusing the webapp/plattform to a broader singing base is the key. What you mean by following the guys on youtube videos, you mean target them and shift them to his webapp so that they use his repurposed
Well it seems like a marketing problem? Check how the product is marketed and adjust the approach.
Maybe there is no traffic to the website, maybe there is traffic but no sign ups or you have sign ups and the conversion to paying customers is the problem. Each step can be optimized. Consult a professional marketeer.
I guess he is trying to do marketing efforts, currently he is doing some growth hacking using affiliate links so that other singers suggest his plattform and are participated with 50% of each membership that uses that affiliate link.
 

seomatic

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I guess he is trying to do marketing efforts, currently he is doing some growth hacking using affiliate links so that other singers suggest his plattform and are participated with 50% of each membership that uses that affiliate link.

How is that working? It's only one possible approach, there are hundreds more to test. If he doesn't have a marketing background I would definitely recommend to get some kind of agency on board. Because marketing seems to be the bottle neck here. They can also advice if some changes to the platform might increase conversion rates.
 
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ric2020

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Okay, then I confess that I don't fully understand the financial situation. If the 100K was already deployed, and assuming the business has a revenue of 5K per year over 10 years, that's 50K in total. So is he in a loss of 50k gross, neglecting the fact that the funding was external?
the funding was external spinsored by the European Union for innovative business ideas, supporting the development of the webapp.
 

seomatic

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Try to find an investor for the marketing budget and improvement. If it was funded by the EU, he has already some credibility. If it was started 10 years ago it probably needs a redo, so much has changed since then. Switch it from Desktop to Mobile for example.
 

ric2020

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Try to find an investor for the marketing budget and improvement. If it was funded by the EU, he has already some credibility. If it was started 10 years ago it probably needs a redo, so much has changed since then. Switch it from Desktop to Mobile for example.
He did a lot of relaunches with his webapp (the last was 1/2 year ago), so it is quite modern, despite he did not make a classic app of it. I have also a business with an webapp/plattform same way in responsive design due to the fact that i did not find appropriate programmers for web developing.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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I want to discribe an business story that does not take off in part of beeing successful:

The guy (who studied IT and is a professional operas singer) wanted to follow his passion and invented an webapplication where musicans from all over the world can improve their singing skills buy watching instructional videos with experts while singing. It is done simultanously with a guy who conducts while singing. His project was even sponsored by the EU with 100.000 €, so the guy could programm it with another guy without investing money. His conductors are highly skilled people that got a lot of prizes. His webplattform was voted 2012 with even with an innovation award. So far it looks all fine. Musicans (mainly classic singers, like opera singers) can buy a membership for around 40 €/ year and buy some upgrades so that the average user pays him 50€/ year. But even though his plattform is online and he follows all rules by CENTS his business does not want to take off. His yearly revenue is just 5000€/year that are 100 users/year.

He follows all rules by CENTS and so it should be successful, i just think the only reason it has attracted just 100 paying users per year is because his business is in a special niche so that not so many users pay the service.

I would love to give him further advice and hope you can give some tips what is going wrong with his business!

Thx in advance for any advice you can give.
As per TMF which I've just finished re-reading atm, the CENTS rules are guideposts along the way, but what ultimately matters is the Law of Effection. So the law of effection hasn't yet been triggered. He has just 100 users. Those numbers are not big enough to make him big money. And magnitude is small, just 40 eur per year. So he really needs a TON more users.

I would look into two places -> #1 how effective is his solution at solving the needs that he is addressing? He should start talking with those 100 users, and find out how he can make it better. Find out what THEY like, how THEY'RE using it, and what THEY want added. It is entirely possible that these 100 users like the platform for a very different reason than what he is advertising currently. Something tells me, that since this didn't take off, there is little word-of-mouth advertising going on... meaning that the service doesn't wow them. And here you need to look at a combination of product + customer service. BOTH need to wow them.

Next, I would obviously look at the marketing strategy. Clearly he hasn't found a way to acquire new users, so he needs to test different marketing strategies. This includes stuff like building a YouTube channel, partnering with influencers, partnering with classical schools of music, etc. If these tactics are not all tried, it will be impossible to determine what's going on.

Ultimately, it is a failure of execution imo.
 

ric2020

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As per TMF which I've just finished re-reading atm, the CENTS rules are guideposts along the way, but what ultimately matters is the Law of Effection. So the law of effection hasn't yet been triggered. He has just 100 users. Those numbers are not big enough to make him big money. And magnitude is small, just 40 eur per year. So he really needs a TON more users.

I would look into two places -> #1 how effective is his solution at solving the needs that he is addressing? He should start talking with those 100 users, and find out how he can make it better. Find out what THEY like, how THEY'RE using it, and what THEY want added. It is entirely possible that these 100 users like the platform for a very different reason than what he is advertising currently. Something tells me, that since this didn't take off, there is little word-of-mouth advertising going on... meaning that the service doesn't wow them. And here you need to look at a combination of product + customer service. BOTH need to wow them.

Next, I would obviously look at the marketing strategy. Clearly he hasn't found a way to acquire new users, so he needs to test different marketing strategies. This includes stuff like building a YouTube channel, partnering with influencers, partnering with classical schools of music, etc. If these tactics are not all tried, it will be impossible to determine what's going on.

Ultimately, it is a failure of execution imo.
thx a lot very good input li
As per TMF which I've just finished re-reading atm, the CENTS rules are guideposts along the way, but what ultimately matters is the Law of Effection. So the law of effection hasn't yet been triggered. He has just 100 users. Those numbers are not big enough to make him big money. And magnitude is small, just 40 eur per year. So he really needs a TON more users.

I would look into two places -> #1 how effective is his solution at solving the needs that he is addressing? He should start talking with those 100 users, and find out how he can make it better. Find out what THEY like, how THEY'RE using it, and what THEY want added. It is entirely possible that these 100 users like the platform for a very different reason than what he is advertising currently. Something tells me, that since this didn't take off, there is little word-of-mouth advertising going on... meaning that the service doesn't wow them. And here you need to look at a combination of product + customer service. BOTH need to wow them.

Next, I would obviously look at the marketing strategy. Clearly he hasn't found a way to acquire new users, so he needs to test different marketing strategies. This includes stuff like building a YouTube channel, partnering with influencers, partnering with classical schools of music, etc. If these tactics are not all tried, it will be impossible to determine what's going on.

Ultimately, it is a failure of execution imo.
You are fully right, it also effects the kinetic execution and probably not all needs are followed. To do some growth hacking i already suggested him and he already applies it.
 

Ing

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Opera singers of the whole word.
Imo there are not very many opera singers in the world and wheather these few think they can get forward with an online course.
Hm.

As others wrote, you could adress to the millions of wanttosingers in the world and make it an Ipone app. Charging not a yearly amount but 1,99 Hobby bzw 2,99 advanced and 10 monthly in the pro version.

Just my 2 unknowing cents.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Sounds like a marketing issue.

Or, the market was overestimated, or how to reach the market.
 

Abrodos

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What you mean by following the guys on youtube videos, you mean target them and shift them to his webapp so that they use his repurposed
Yes, when looking at people doing covers on youtube you've got either people with very low followings, ie wannabe singers, and "cover youtubers", people with high number of followers, not so much as mainstream famous/emerging artists but a great number nonetheless (what wannabes aspire to). The big market is the wannabes, and the "cover youtubers" are your way of accessing the wannabes, by making the youtubers promote your product to them in their videos, which have a high number of views. Affiliate marketing would be an option but there are others.
 
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