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Moving out of Romania or the "I don't know what to do" thread

AfterWind

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I've been slacking off a lot lately. A few months ago I decided that I shall move to the UK after I finish my studies, because, I thought, am only stagnating here. It all seemed well, I had all the reasons to go there for starting out as an entrepreneur:
  • Better overall salary (people are less stingy about their money there)
  • Better system for entreprenuers
  • Much less corruption (much less risk to get in trouble than in Romania)
  • Overall better infrastructure (better houses and inter-town public transport)
  • et cetera
What are the downsides:
  • Higher living expenses and higher taxes
  • Being an immigrant will make a local business more difficult to start off
  • Lost time due to having to get used to the culture and laws there
  • Worse paying salary in relation with living costs
Doesn't look bad, putting this in a WADM made moving to UK marginally better. But there was a nagging feeling when I took this decision... and I finally found what it was:
Do any of these really matter?
Would anything really change?
Can't I do the exact same thing here as elsewhere?
Doesn't it all depend on me to achieve that success?

Yes it does.


I have been struggling with this way too much and maybe you guys can help me, not take the right decision for me, but ask the right questions.

Sorry everyone, I'm only taking from this forum through this post. Criticize this as much as you would like, please.
 

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splok

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Sorry everyone, I'm only taking from this forum through this post. Criticize this as much as you would like, please.
You say you want to move because you're stagnating. What would need to happen for that to change? Since you're asking it here, it seems like it would have something to do with entrepreneurial success, but your bullet points make the UK look worse for business to me. Improving your quality of life is great, and so is moving to new places, but neither of those things have much to do with business. Imo, you should optimize for time to invest in your business, and dramatically increasing your cost of living sounds like the opposite of that.

I completely understand the need to change your environment, but why not another city in Romania? or somewhere else in Eastern Europe? Or SE Asia? There's no need to focus on a local business. We all have the same internet (mostly).
 

MTF

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What kind of a business do you want to start?

If you want to start an online business, then staying in Romania is probably a better idea since you have much, much lower taxes (if Wikipedia is right, it's 10% flat tax which is one of the lowest tax rates in the world) and lower costs of living.

I guess that making $500 or so a month is enough to live comfortably in Romania. You can easily make that (and much more) through freelancing while working on your business on the side.

If you want to start an offline business, then I understand that it might be more challenging in Romania since people have less disposable income, there's corruption, and probably other issues to deal with. Also, starting an offline business means that you probably need more start-up capital (though probably less in Romania and more in the UK), so you need to be able to save a lot of money (can an average person do that easily in Romania?).

If there are few opportunities for an offline business in Romania (and/or it comes with other risks you described), then moving to the UK or another richer country makes sense.

Having said that, there's one thing that might make reaching your goals in Romania difficult, regardless if it's an online or an offline business...

The local mentality. If every day you're dealing with depressed or lazy people, if corruption is something normal there, if you're afraid of becoming successful because most live on little and will envy you and/or pose a physical threat (and I don't mean Romania is a dangerous place, I'm talking more about things like scratching a car just because it's expensive and stuff like that), then you should consider leaving.

In the end, it does all depend on you, but at the same time, the local surroundings have a huge influence on your performance. If you can't prosper mentally in Romania (and no, it doesn't mean that you're a wuss if you're struggling with that - you can theoretically succeed everywhere, but in some places it's easier so why make it harder for you?), then it might be a good choice to move elsewhere.

Think of it like this: what difference does it make that you pay 10% in taxes or have low living costs or are local instead of an immigrant if you're only operating at 10% of your potential? Being in a place with high entrepreneurial energy, surrounded by successful, happy people, with nice homes and cars can have a dramatic influence on your motivation. You can also connect with more high-level people. Just one connection or sometimes even one tip from a successful individual can make you a lot of money.

You are your most important asset - if you had a luxurious car, would you keep it outside in freezing, cold weather or park it in a nice garage?

My other question is: why specifically UK and not a different country? I've noticed that many people from Eastern Europe head to the UK for a better life, but if everybody is doing that, then you aren't really that special or valuable in the new country. How about considering a different destination where you can be more unique and more valuable?

For example, where do wealthy Romanian people go to for vacation? If, for example, plenty of them visit Greece, then you might possibly find a job in the tourism industry there and later on, possibly start your own business focused on Romanian tourists (just an example, I don't really know whether it's possible with the current financial shape of Greece).

I don't know what you're looking for so I'm just giving some ideas of EU/EU-associated countries more developed than Romania and with low unemployment rate that might offer good opportunities:
  • Belgium
  • Netherlands
  • Austria
  • Norway
  • Malta
  • Germany
I'd also consider non-EU countries with easy immigration policies or plenty of employment opportunities. Think outside of the box. Perhaps you can get a lucrative contract in the United Arab Emirates and save up six figures in a year or two to open your business elsewhere afterward.

Last but not least:

Sorry everyone, I'm only taking from this forum through this post. Criticize this as much as you would like, please.
Work on this part of your mindset. To give, sometimes you have to take. Don't feel sorry when you're asking for help. I'm like you in this aspect and feel like it's a hindrance in life, particularly in business. As long as you give a lot, don't be sorry about taking a little, too.
 
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AfterWind

AfterWind

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I completely understand the need to change your environment, but why not another city in Romania? or somewhere else in Eastern Europe? Or SE Asia? There's no need to focus on a local business. We all have the same internet (mostly).
I live in Cluj Napoca and, it's most likely the best place to live in Romania. Our IT industry is huge here and lots of companies from outside (USA, Germany, Austria etc.) are setting up shop here due to the cost of labour being low (second to last of all EU countries) but the quality fairly high. Moreover, the city is in an ever-expanding stage where, just from where I live right now can see at least 5 large office spaces and luxurious residential spaces being built.

And yes, I realized that, moving to UK would not only increase the living costs but would also delay my work on a business. I noticed that while posting this and now, am much more certain since you mentioned it. Thank you!

What kind of a business do you want to start?
Most likely, an online business. Although, I had a few ideas about offline businesses, all of which can mostly be applicable here.

The local mentality.
Being in a place with high entrepreneurial energy
This is what got stuck in my head. Is the local mentality here a better one than in UK? Well, let's look at the facts here:
  • About 50% of my colleagues are already working from the start of the last year of university. Although, many have no idea what they are doing at their jobs, they are still putting in the work.
  • People are more likely to help. Although, most are pretty selfish (as everywhere else), due to there being a lot highly responsible people (immigrants even) the scale is tipped a little bit the other way.
  • So far, in my local group of friends there are people that:
    • Have started to work on their business, taking courses for entreprenuers and applying for funds from the EU
    • Are super passionate about public transport being like a wikipedia for that. The guy puts in hours of work to model buses, take pictures of them and post them everywhere on social media where he gets an unexpectedly large amount of attention. Although, I doubt he realizes, but I am certain that he has influenced the growth of public transport possitively in past years.
    • Have a small business and puts in nights, yes, nights of work aside from working every day on it to deliver for their one and only client.
I can hardly say that the local mentality is what's affecting me. Sure there are deliquents, sure there are ever-complaining elderly, sure there are lazy people but all in all, in this city, the local mentality and the entrepreneurial energy is better and is changing for the better.
My other question is: why specifically UK and not a different country?
My dad works there for quite some time and I can easily get residency since he already has it. Another reason is the local language being English makes things a lot easier for me. That's probably it.
I'd also consider non-EU countries with easy immigration policies or plenty of employment opportunities.
I looked at USA, that's probably too difficult. Canada looks decent, but its IT industry is nowhere to be found.
Work on this part of your mindset. To give, sometimes you have to take. Don't feel sorry when you're asking for help.
Thank you for this advice and the time you took to make such a long post. Now the give, give, give mentality makes more sense to me. Rep transferred.
 

Kid

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The thing that struck me is that you want to go to UK - which is probably most expensive country in EU - when many or some entrepreneurs do exact opposite.

I think at least one person here moved to Vietnam to pay less in rent for a house, and if i recall well there was one guy who move to Africa for same reason.

Any way, good luck on whatever you decide.
 

MTF

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@AfterWind, then I see no reason whatsoever for you to move to the UK. You can serve international clients from Romania and since it's an online business, it doesn't matter if there's more corruption or worse infrastructure in Romania than in the UK.
 
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AfterWind

AfterWind

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@AfterWind, then I see no reason whatsoever for you to move to the UK. You can serve international clients from Romania and since it's an online business, it doesn't matter if there's more corruption or worse infrastructure in Romania than in the UK.
I will remain here in Romania. And that is my final answer. Thanks everyone for helping out!
 

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