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Are precious metals a part of your wealth strategy?

  • Yes, it’s a hedge against inflation

    Votes: 15 51.7%
  • Yes, it’s an investment for gain

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • No, I don’t think they’re necessary

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • No, cause I don’t know anything about it

    Votes: 9 31.0%
  • GrOwTh StOcKs FoR LIfE

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

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Thought I’d start a thread about precious metals investing with everything going on.

Are precious metals safe right now?

Do you prefer gold or silver?

Is gold overpriced?

Is silver underpriced?

Where do you see gold/silver going I’m the next ?

Should we buy ETFs over physical?

What strategies are you using to protect your wealth from inflation?

Are you using precious metals as an investment or a hedge?

Do you think precious metals are a scam that prey on fear?
 

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OMJ

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Gold and silver is just a load of bullion.

@Jardo you're the man for this thread

Edit
Physical gold is good in times of war.

Chinese are big on it, in HK virtually everyone has a security box in their bank.
Even now brides are given gold jewellery complete with receipts of weight & carat.
It's tradition.
 
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Kevin88660

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Thought I’d start a thread about precious metals investing with everything going on.

Are precious metals safe right now?

Do you prefer gold or silver?

Is gold overpriced?

Is silver underpriced?

Where do you see gold/silver going I’m the next ?

Should we buy ETFs over physical?

What strategies are you using to protect your wealth from inflation?

Are you using precious metals as an investment or a hedge?

Do you think precious metals are a scam that prey on fear?
Something good to buy and hold for long term if you have spare money.

Once Trump piss China off enough and China can just announce their real gold holding numbers to kill the dollar, gold and silver will go ballistic.

I am not saying that will happen soon, but it is a real possibility. I have in invested in it many years ago and still hold it.
 

c4n

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I was thinking about gold a bit and am seriously wondering:

1. did anyone here ever try to sell a large amount of physical gold (or silver)? I mean high 5 or 6 digits worth?

2. if the economy goes downhill, will we actually be able to liquidate physical gold? I'm not talking small amounts, but "I want to buy this house" type amounts.

3. if sh*t hits the fan and the government makes gold possession illegal, who will we be selling the gold to?

I would love to hear everyone's opinion. I know there are some high net worth individuals here who own precious metals (@Kak, @Vigilante, @JScott ... ?).


Disclaimer: I own physical gold and silver
 

Kak

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I own less than 10 grand in physical gold.

I currently own a LOT of paper gold.

IAU and GLD are FAR FAR more liquid than physical and the bid/ask spread on them in a transaction is MUCH MUCH lower.

I always own a significant amount of gold, but this allows me to adjust to my needs much easier.

Also, as you said, in a total collapse, it would be difficult to sell, and for what? Trade will be hard because it is already worth so much. It would will be worth even MORE in a circumstance like that.

For epic disaster and total collapse bitcoin might actually be the better choice. It is untraceable, easily transportable and divisible. Just some food for thought.

The big disclaimer to all of my advice here Is the fact that I lost a shit load of money like most everyone else when the markets tanked.
 
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c4n

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Thank you for your reply.

Somehow I figured you'd have most of it in a highly liquid form :smile2: That makes sense if you buy gold/silver for speculative/hedge reasons (price increase, inflation hedge).

My reason behind the purchase was to have an insurance policy (bought it back in 2019). I argued that only physically owning it would be useful in a collapse. But what good is such an insurance policy if you can't sell it to anyone (or for a reasonable price) when you need to liquidate...
 

Vigilante

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I was thinking about gold a bit and am seriously wondering:

1. did anyone here ever try to sell a large amount of physical gold (or silver)? I mean high 5 or 6 digits worth?

2. if the economy goes downhill, will we actually be able to liquidate physical gold? I'm not talking small amounts, but "I want to buy this house" type amounts.

3. if sh*t hits the fan and the government makes gold possession illegal, who will we be selling the gold to?

I would love to hear everyone's opinion. I know there are some high net worth individuals here who own precious metals (@Kak, @Vigilante, @JScott ... ?).


Disclaimer: I own physical gold and silver

I only own silver, not gold. Kyle owns a bunch of gold. I have been pissed off that silver has not been tracking with the gold increases. Meanwhile, Kyle is making a ton of money on his gold.
 

Kevin88660

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Thank you for your reply.

Somehow I figured you'd have most of it in a highly liquid form :smile2: That makes sense if you buy gold/silver for speculative/hedge reasons (price increase, inflation hedge).

My reason behind the purchase was to have an insurance policy (bought it back in 2019). I argued that only physically owning it would be useful in a collapse. But what good is such an insurance policy if you can't sell it to anyone (or for a reasonable price) when you need to liquidate...
In a hyperinflationary scenario, people would be willing to exchange fiat for your gold.

You can change it to fiat and buy other assets if you wish.

While openly traded paper gold offers a easy way to exit, there has been speculation that paper gold and paper silver have been a fraudulent market that Is susceptible to all sorts of risk.
 

B_Mac

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I’ve sold mid 5 figure amounts of physical gold, both from a numismatic and bullion perspective. It’s all been a few pieces to multiple sellers in a short period of time though, never to just one person. I don’t hold it very long. I buy when I think the price of one of the metals will go up. Longest I’ve ever held is around 2 years.

I tried to buy silver when it was in the $12range a few months ago but I couldn’t find so much as an ounce for anything close to spot. Best deal I found was silver eagles for $20 a coin.

Not to sound all conspiratorial and like a nut case, but I don’t think silver and gold or anything else we currently think of as currency would be worth anything if you’re talking about end of world type scenarios.
 

c4n

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In a hyperinflationary scenario, people would be willing to exchange fiat for your gold.

In theory, yes. In practice, who would hold enough fiat to be able to buy a good chunk of it?

In a depression, I reckon it would be even harder to find someone with enough fiat (and willingness) to buy it? I am thinking it would be far from liquid.
 

c4n

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I’ve sold mid 5 figure amounts of physical gold, both from a numismatic and bullion perspective. It’s all been a few pieces to multiple sellers in a short period of time though, never to just one person. I don’t hold it very long. I buy when I think the price of one of the metals will go up. Longest I’ve ever held is around 2 years.

That's all and well in prosperous times. But, if gold is an insurance policy, the real measure should be how easy it is to liquidate in desperate times when you need it the most?

I tried to buy silver when it was in the $12range a few months ago but I couldn’t find so much as an ounce for anything close to spot. Best deal I found was silver eagles for $20 a coin.

At least in Europe, in most countries, gold is tax-free, but silver is taxed. So unless you are VAT exempt (a company buying from a company), you have to pay VAT (could be anywhere 17-25%) for silver.

Not to sound all conspiratorial and like a nut case, but I don’t think silver and gold or anything else we currently think of as currency would be worth anything if you’re talking about end of world type scenarios.

Agreed, no one would really care about gold in an "end of world" type scenario. Or silver. Or bitcoin. I'm talking more about a decade long depression type scenarios.
 

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Kevin88660

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In theory, yes. In practice, who would hold enough fiat to be able to buy a good chunk of it?

In a depression, I reckon it would be even harder to find someone with enough fiat (and willingness) to buy it? I am thinking it would be far from liquid.
In a depression cash is king of course.

In hyperinflationary case, you can sell to bullion dealers. They are the middle men who eat a thin spread. You do not have to find them on ebay. I did bought some Collection silver coins from ebay years ago.
 

Kevin88660

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That's all and well in prosperous times. But, if gold is an insurance policy, the real measure should be how easy it is to liquidate in desperate times when you need it the most?



At least in Europe, in most countries, gold is tax-free, but silver is taxed. So unless you are VAT exempt (a company buying from a company), you have to pay VAT (could be anywhere 17-25%) for silver.



Agreed, no one would really care about gold in an "end of world" type scenario. Or silver. Or bitcoin. I'm talking more about a decade long depression type scenarios.
Bullion dealers will be happy to take your bullion on the prevailing market price, regardless of bull or bear market.

Precious metals are fairly liquid, I would say far more than your house.

if you are anticipating depression you should hold cash.
 

B_Mac

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That's all and well in prosperous times. But, if gold is an insurance policy, the real measure should be how easy it is to liquidate in desperate times when you need it the most?
You originally asked if anyone has ever sold in large amounts of physical gold in the 5-6 figure range, I was just answering that yes, I have. But to answer how easy it is to liquidate in desperate times, you can consider the previous few months. It seemed very easy to liquidate it. As I mentioned, I couldn't find any physical metals for sale at a reasonable price. And it appeared many people were paying unreasonable prices. So at least at the beginning of what people perceived to be a desperate time, metals were highly liquid.

At least in Europe, in most countries, gold is tax-free, but silver is taxed. So unless you are VAT exempt (a company buying from a company), you have to pay VAT (could be anywhere 17-25%) for silver.
I'm in the US, I don't know how it works where you are, I was just answering from my experiences. But I'd be willing to pay taxes on buying as much silver as I could at $12 an ounce and selling it at the current $17 an ounce a month later.

Agreed, no one would really care about gold in an "end of world" type scenario. Or silver. Or bitcoin. I'm talking more about a decade long depression type scenarios.
You mentioned here:
3. if sh*t hits the fan and the government makes gold possession illegal,
I guess as an American, when someone says shit hits the fan, the first thing I think of is total collapse of the world and government and all that, not a decades long depression, so perhaps we're not talking about the same thing due to cultural differences. Urban Dictionary: SHTF We have shows like doomsday preppers where phrases like shit hits the fan is common.

If were talking a depression, like what the US experienced in the 1930's, then gold is worth having and holding as a store of value, probably.
 

ljean

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My portfolio is 25% paper gold (GLD). I dont want the headaches that come with storing, liquidating, transporting, etc physical gold.
 

c4n

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You originally asked if anyone has ever sold in large amounts of physical gold in the 5-6 figure range, I was just answering that yes, I have.

I hope my reply didn't come off as arguing, wasn't my intention at all. I appreciate your point of view and the information you shared.

Like said, I do hold physical gold and silver, roughly 5% my net worth. But rather than trading/speculating, my intent was to have an insurance policy.

The more I think about it though, the more it seems that when I would need it the most, I would have a hard time liquidating it:
- if there is hyperinflation, I either wouldn't want to sell a lot of it or I would have a hard time finding someone with enough cash to buy a large amount of it
- if there is a depression, my guess is even fewer people will be willing and able to afford to buy a lot of gold
- if there is a catastrophic event (doomsday preppers type) I would be better off having a food/water/ammo supply
 

whirl

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Yes, I have some of my "value" in silver - just in case of inflation and the fact that silver is extremely underpriced.
 

ljean

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Counterfeiting is another issue to consider when dealing in physical metals. Google Kingold for a recent example. Surely eBay is full of phony bullion.
 

Alleghenyman

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What drives the value changes for gold and silver? They’re not really industrial metals so I don’t get what generates demand. If they are a hedge against inflation can they truly be profitable or just keep pace with inflation?
 

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FWIW, silver is actually largely an industrially-used metal; up to 60% of silver mined is consumed for industry.

(according to these guys, anyways: What does 2018 have in store for silver? | Thomson Reuters)

Silver also isn't easily recovered, once used. There isn't enough of it in any given product to justify getting it back out in most cases.

From what I understand, most mines also don't actively search out silver deposits alone when mining - it's more of a byproduct while mining for other metals.

I think gold and silver are traditionally considered *stores* of wealth, not active investments that generate a rental income, dividend, or other form of income. They're a way of protecting the purchasing power you've already earned and stored in the metal. That said, when governments are printing money and manipulating currencies like it's going out of style, there's something beatiful about a commodity that can't be printed into existence. It's interesting to see that precious metals have held their purchasing power for MUCH, much longer than any currency around today has even existed.
 

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c4n

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Just bumping this to ask if anyone is selling their gold or what your outlook is?

I personally will take this dip as a chance to buy some more physical gold, but that's because my net worth has gone up and I like to keep a % of it in gold as a long-term insurance policy.
 

ljean

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I sold my GLD and went back into stocks a few months ago. November was insane, my holdings are up over 20%.
 

Kak

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Just bumping this to ask if anyone is selling their gold or what your outlook is?

I personally will take this dip as a chance to buy some more physical gold, but that's because my net worth has gone up and I like to keep a % of it in gold as a long-term insurance policy.

I look at it like a buying opportunity. It sucks that I didn't have the foresight to sell higher and buy lower, but alas, I am still very much up on my initial investment and I don't need the money on any sort of timeline. The dollar keeps dropping relative to other currencies. It is dropping even more relative to big ticket items. The fed keeps acting. A Biden presidency will have more of the same and no one wants the blood on their hands for raising interest rates or tightening the balance sheet for the foreseeable future.

I'm bullish, but I have more than just gold. The "risk on" behavior of the markets won't last forever. Malinvestment is rampant.

I'm probably 50% exposed to metals. Physical, IAU, OUNZ, GDX, GDXJ and SLV.

I am heavy into AAPL and MSFT as the "value" oligarch growth stocks. Probably 25%.

The remainder of my stocks still play the debasing of the dollar while capturing most of "the recovery" VXUS and VWO. 15% and 10%.

There may be some other inconsequential little stuff, but this is the core for me.

I am also a believer in gold and silver for value growth too. Supply and demand dictate price, not just a directly inverse relationship with the dollar. Look what bitcoin has done, gold is driven by supply and demand just the same. An in demand commodity can easily go up relative to a stable currency. No one would say that their S&P index only went up because of a devalued dollar to the same extent nor should they about metals.
 
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thechosen1

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I think it’s funny and ironic that people today act like gold is outdated and irrelevant.

The fact that gold is used in electronics today means it has more potential value than ever before in history. It should be more important, not less.

I like gold as something to keep and hide in case of a doomsday scenario. Doomsday is too extreme actually - more like an “extreme socialism” scenario.
Imagine all stocks being seized or ownership canceled, or property deeds forfeited. All you have is what you can carry. Well, that would limit the gold you can take, but you get where I’m going with this.
 
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Kevin88660

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China and Russia have a large holdings of gold. It depends on when they want to press the button.

Wall Street and Comex control the paper gold price.
 

Hammsy

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Investing in gold is long term and it brings small but steady returns, so I like your decision. I think that if you are in the Bay Area in California, then I can advise you one store where you can easily find [link removed]. I like this store because there are no high prices for buying precious metals, you get really good quality, gold without scratches and impurities in the alloy, advice from a person who hasn't been the beginner to store gold and can help you with this. And it doesn't cost too much.
 
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SamRussell

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I think it’s funny and ironic that people today act like gold is outdated and irrelevant.

The fact that gold is used in electronics today means it has more potential value than ever before in history. It should be more important, not less.

I like gold as something to keep and hide in case of a doomsday scenario. Doomsday is too extreme actually - more like an “extreme socialism” scenario.
Imagine all stocks being seized or ownership canceled, or property deeds forfeited. All you have is what you can carry. Well, that would limit the gold you can take, but you get where I’m going with this.

In that sort of scenario, gold would most likely be illegal to hold privately. You could use your gold, but it would be highly dangerous and you'd probably be using it to try and exit the country illegally.
 

thechosen1

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In that sort of scenario, gold would most likely be illegal to hold privately. You could use your gold, but it would be highly dangerous and you'd probably be using it to try and exit the country illegally.
I’m borrowing this idea from Jewish people who escaped Germany during the Holocaust. They were persecuted and murdered but a few managed to get out with their lives and take small bits of their savings with them. In this scenario, the “legality” doesn’t matter - you are trying to survive against something monstrous and evil (like the nazi government, or maybe Stalinism)
 

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